>> A STRIKE BY NURSES AT UW
HEALTH IN MADISON WAS AVERTED
THIS WEEK AFTER AN AGREEMENT
WITH THE HOSPITAL TO REGULARLY
TALK ABOUT WORKPLACE CONCERNS.
>> WE'VE SHOWN UP FOR EACH OTHER
TO SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER AND BUILD
OUR COLLECTIVE POWER TO IMPROVE
OUR WORKING CONDITIONS AND
PATIENT CARE AT UW HEALTH.
TODAY, WE CELEBRATE A BIG STEP
FORWARD.
WE'RE EXCITED TO WORK TOGETHER
WITH THE UW ADMINISTRATION TO
SOLVE THE CHALLENGES WE'RE
FACING.
THIS MOMENT MATTERS FOR
HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND OTHER
WORKING PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
>> FOR UW HEALTH, FOR ITS BOARD,
FOR ITS LEADERSHIP, FOR THE
ORGANIZATION, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
ABOUT THE LEGAL QUESTION, CAN WE
OR CAN WE NOT, AFTER ACT 10,
RECOGNIZE A UNION, WHETHER
VOLUNTARILY OR INVOLUNTARILY,
FOR PURPOSES OF REPRESENTING OUR
EMPLOYEES IN COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING?
WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO COME
TOGETHER IN A CONSTRUCTIVE,
PRODUCTIVE WAY, FOCUSED ON
PATIENT CARE ISSUES, FOCUS ON
WORKFORCE ISSUES, FOCUS ON ALL
THOSE THINGS THAT WE ALL CARE
ABOUT.
AND SO IN THAT REGARD, AS COLIN
WAS TALKING ABOUT, RG WE WERE
ABLE TO FIND A WAY THAT WE CAN
BRING THOSE THAT WISH TO BE PART
OF A UNION TO COME TO THE TABLE
WITH US TO START TALKING ABOUT
THESE ISSUES.
>> THE NEXT STEP IS FOR THE
STATE EMPLOYMENT COMMISSION TO
RULE WHETHER THE HOSPITAL CAN
RECOGNIZE AND BARGAIN WITH THE
NURSES' UNION.
ULTIMATELY THE COURTS WILL
LIKELY DECIDE THAT QUESTION.
IT'S COMPLICATED IN WISCONSIN,
WITH ITS ACT 10 LAW THAT
STRIPPED MOST PUBLIC UNIONS OF
MOST BARGAINING RIGHTS,
ESPECIALLY AS UW HOSPITAL NURSES
ARE OUTSIDE THE PROVISIONS OF
BARGAINING LAW, AND LOST THEIR
UNION RIGHTS BECAUSE OF ACT 10.
WE TURN TO DON TAYLOR, A
PROFESSOR AT THE UW MADISON
SCHOOL FOR WORKERS WHO HAS
EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE WORKING FOR
UNIONS.
PROFESSOR, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR
BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> SO HOW WOULD YOU REGARD THIS
DETENTE THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK?
IS THIS A WIN FOR THE NURSES'
UNION?
>> I THINK IT IS, I THINK IT IS.
THE AGREEMENT THAT WAS REACHED
RECOGNIZES THAT THE WORKERS CAN
JOIN THE UNION, CAN OPERATE AS
AN ORGANIZATION INSIDE THE
HOSPITAL AND CLINICS.
WHILE THE THORNIER LEGAL
QUESTIONS ARE YET TO BE
RESOLVED, THE QUESTION OF
WHETHER OR NOT THE NURSES CAN
GET TOGETHER AND HAVE THEIR
VOICES HEARD COLLECTIVELY
APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN RESOLVED.
>> DO YOU THINK THIS WILL SET
SOME KIND OF A PRECEDENT GOING
FORWARD FOR OTHER BARGAINING
UNITS?
>> I DON'T THINK DIRECTLY.
I THINK BECAUSE THE NURSES ARE
IN KIND OF A SPECIAL LEGAL
STATUS WHERE THEY WERE REMOVED
ENTIRELY FROM STATE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING LAW, THE OTHER PUBLIC
EMPLOYEES, TEACHERS, HIGHWAY
MAINTAINERS AND SO FORTH, ARE
STILL COVERED BY WHAT'S LEFT OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC SECTOR
BARGAINING LAW.
AND SO THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO
DO EXACTLY WHAT THE NURSES HAVE
DONE, BUT THE NURSES' SUCCESS
COULD CERTAINLY INSPIRE THEM TO
TRY AND EXPERIMENT WITH
DIFFERENT WAYS OF APPROACHING
THE ISSUE.
>> BECAUSE WE SAW LIKE 15,000
NURSES IN MINNESOTA WALK OFF THE
JOB, GO ON STRIKE, AND THEY'RE
IN A VERY DIFFERENT POSITION
THAN THE UW HEALTH NURSES, IS
THAT RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.
MINNESOTA HAS A VERY DIFFERENT
SET OF LAWS, AND ACTUALLY ALLOWS
PUBLIC SECTOR STRIKES IN SOME
CASES UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.
>> SO IT IS YOUR EXPERT BELIEF,
THOUGH, THAT UW HOSPITAL COULD
LEGALLY BARGAIN WITH ITS UNION
NURSES?
>> YES, YES, THAT IS MY
POSITION.
THE REMOVAL OF UW HEALTH FROM
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING LAW,
UNLIKE OTHER PUBLIC EMPLOYEES,
EFFECTIVELY PUTS THEM BACK IN
THE SITUATION THAT ANY EMPLOYEE
WAS IN PRIOR TO THE ENACTMENT OF
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING LAW.
AND IN THAT SITUATION, THE
ABSENCE OF A STATUTE DOESN'T
PROHIBIT VOLUNTARY COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING FROM TAKING PLACE.
IT SIMPLY DOESN'T REQUIRE IT.
>> AND YET HERE WE ARE, LOOKING
AT POTENTIALLY THE COURTS HAVING
TO RESOLVE THIS AFTER THE STATE
EMPLOYMENT COMMISSION MAKES ITS
RULING, BUT IF THE COURTS
RESOLVE IT, AND THAT IS WHAT UW
HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATION SAYS
SHOULD HAPPEN, IS IT NOT LIKELY
THAT IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP TO
THE STATE HIGH COURT, WHICH IS
THE COURT THAT RULED THAT ACT 10
WAS CONSTITUTIONAL.
SO YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK
LIKE FOR THE NURSES' UNION GOING
FORWARD?
>> WELL, I WOULD ASSUME THAT
THEY ARE CALCULATING THOSE RISKS
AND THE SITUATION DOES NEED TO
BE RESOLVED AS TO THEIR STATUS,
WHICH ALTHOUGH I HAVE KIND OF A
CLEAR VISION OF IT, IS UNIQUE.
AND THE COURT COULD OBVIOUSLY
RULE IN A WAY THAT'S DETRIMENTAL
TO WHAT THE NURSES WANT, AND
THEY'LL HAVE TO REGROUP AND
RESTRATEGIZE AT THAT POINT.
IT DOES SEEM THAT HOSPITAL
MANAGEMENT HAS TAKEN THE
POSITION THAT THEY ARE
PROHIBITED FROM ENGAGING IN
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, AND THEY
REALLY CAN'T STEP FORWARD
FURTHER THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE
WITHOUT SOME CLARIFICATION OF
WHAT THE STATUTORY
RESPONSIBILITIES ARE.
>> WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PROCEEDS,
BUT MORE GLOBALLY, I'M
UNDERSTANDING THAT MORE
EMPLOYEES ARE KIND OF WANTING TO
JOIN UNIONS, WANTING TO
COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN.
WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS, THE
WORK CONDITIONS THAT HAVE LED TO
THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK THE PANDEMIC
HAD A LOT TO DO WITH IT.
A LOT OF EMPLOYERS STRUGGLED TO
ADAPT TO THE NEW HEALTH AND
SAFETY NEEDS OF THEIR WORKFORCES
WITH THE RELATED WORKFORCE
SHORTAGE THAT WE'RE NOW
EXPERIENCING.
MORE EMPLOYEES ARE BEING MADE TO
DO THE WORK OF -- YOU KNOW, THE
SAME AMOUNT OF WORK WITH FEWER
PEOPLE, AND THAT MAKES IT HARDER
TO NOT JUST KEEP A WORKPLACE
SAFE, BUT TO MAINTAIN WORK-LIFE
BALANCE AND AVOID EXCESSIVE
OVERTIME, SO I THINK ALL OF
THOSE THINGS ARE ADDING UP TO
ADDITIONAL INTEREST IN UNIONS.
THE YOUNGER WORKFORCE TENDS TO
BE MORE INTERESTED IN UNIONS AND
THERE'S A NEW POLL THAT THE
APPROVAL OF UNIONS HAS REACHED
THE HIGHEST LEVEL SINCE I THINK
THE 1960s, SO I THINK ALL OF
THAT IS COMING TOGETHER, AND THE
LAST THING I'LL SAY ON THAT IS
SIMPLY THAT ONCE SOME GROUPS
STARTED HAVING SUCCESS, THAT
INSPIRES OTHERS TO MOVE FORWARD.
THE FIRST STARBUCKS, FOR
EXAMPLE, THAT UNIONIZED THEN
INSPIRED OTHERS TO FOLLOW THE
SAME TRACK.
>> HOW RESPONSIVE ARE EMPLOYERS
BEING TO THAT?
>> NOT VERY.
AND THAT HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN
THE CASE IN THE UNITED STATES.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN EMPLOYERS
AT THE VERY LEAST EXPRESS THEIR
OPINION, WHICH THEY'RE ALLOWED
TO DO, THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE
THE EMPLOYEES NEED A UNION.
OTHERS HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH
WHAT ARE CALLED UNFAIR LABOR
PRACTICES IN TERMS OF
DISCRIMINATING AGAINST EMPLOYEES
FOR WANTING A UNION OR
RETALIATING AGAINST EMPLOYEES
FOR WANTING A UNION, WHICH IS
VERY COMMON.
>> ALL RIGHT.
PROFESSOR DON TAYLOR, THANKS
VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.ORG,