>> AS THE SPEAKER OF THE
WISCONSIN ASSEMBLY PERRIES BACK
AND FORTH WITH DONALD TRUMP OVER
THE 2020 ELECTION, THE SECOND IN
COMMAND IS TAKING HIS LEAD.
"HERE AND NOW" SENIOR POLITICAL
REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ SAT DOWN
WITH ASSEMBLY MAJORITY LEADER
JIM STEINEKE.
>> MAJORITY LEADER STEINEKE,
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> SO YOU WERE ONE OF THE
HIGHEST RANKING REPUBLICANS IN
WISCONSIN TO BE A NEVER TRUMPER
OR ANTI-TRUMP IN THIS TIME.
THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING
THAT'S WHAT'S PUSHING YOU OUT OF
OFFICE.
WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH
YOUR TIME AND DECISION TO LEAVE?
>> IT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH
IF ANYTHING TO DO WITH MY
DECISION TO LEAVE THE
LEGISLATURE.
REALLY, IT IS JUST KIND OF A
NATURAL PROGRESSION.
YOU COME IN AND I'VE SPENT NOW
10 YEARS IN LEADERSHIP, EIGHT
YEARS AS MAJORITY LEADER.
AND I JUST FEEL LIKE IT'S TIME
TO MOVE ON AND LET OTHER PEOPLE
RISE TO THE TOP AND TAKE THEIR
TURN AT THE HELM OF THINGS.
>> DO OTHER ELECTED REPUBLICANS
HAVE SIMILAR VIEWS TO YOU OF THE
FORMER PRESIDENT OR ARE THEY
JUST SCARED TO SPEAK THEIR MIND
AS FREELY AS YOU DID?
>> I'M SURE IT KIND OF RUNS THE
GAMUT, RIGHT, JUST LIKE THE
PUBLIC, THERE'S PROBABLY SOME
REALLY HARD CORE TRUMP
SUPPORTERS IN OUR CAUCUS AND
THEN THERE'S THE OPPOSITE END
WHERE I TEND TO BE, AND I THINK
EVERYBODY IS SOMEWHERE IN THAT
RANGE.
EVERYBODY'S GOT TO MAKE THEIR
OWN DECISIONS ON THAT, AND YOU
KNOW, I WAS VOCAL IN THE
BEGINNING AND TRIED TO SUPPORT
THE PRESIDENT WHEN I THOUGHT HE
WAS DOING GOOD THINGS, BUT ALSO
BEING VOCAL WHEN I THOUGHT HE
WASN'T.
AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR
EVERYBODY TO DO.
YOU KNOW, JUST HAVE YOUR OWN
PERSPECTIVE AND NOT ALWAYS JUST
FOLLOW THE PARTY LINE, NO MATTER
WHETHER WE THINK THINGS ARE
GOING WELL OR NOT.
>> WE'VE SEEN ASSEMBLY SPEAKER
ROBIN VOS TRY TO PLACATE SOME OF
THE TRUMP CROWD AND TRUMP
HIMSELF, ESPECIALLY WITH MICHAEL
GABLEMAN'S INVESTIGATION, IT'S
RACKED UP A MILLION DOLLARS IN
TAXPAYER FEES AND LOOKS TO BE
MORE OF SOME SETTLEMENT ISSUES
WITH THE COURTS RIGHT NOW WITH
OPEN RECORDS LAWS.
WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF THAT
INVESTIGATION?
>> THE GABLEMAN INVESTIGATION, I
THINK THE GRADE IS INCOMPLETE AT
THIS POINT BECAUSE THERE ARE THE
LAWSUITS OUT THERE THAT WE'VE
GOT TO SETTLE ON SUBPOENAS AND
OTHER THINGS, SO WE'LL HAVE TO
WAIT UNTIL THAT'S COMPLETELY
WRAPPED UP BEFORE WE STAMP A
FINAL GRADE ON IT.
>> WHAT INSIGHT CAN YOU GIVE US
AS TO HOW MUCH THE SPEAKER HAS
HAD TO MOVE BETWEEN TO TRY AND
PLACATE THOSE WHO WANT MORE AND
THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND THAT THE
ELECTIONS WERE REAL AND VALID,
BUT NOT TO THE LEVEL OF THE
FRAUD THAT'S BEING ALLEGED?
>> I THINK THAT'S A REALLY TOUGH
POSITION TO BE IN, BECAUSE THERE
ARE PEOPLE THAT TRULY BELIEVE
THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.
I THINK MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND
THAT THAT'S NOT LIKELY TO BE THE
CASE, BUT THERE WERE THINGS THAT
HAPPENED IN THAT LAST ELECTION
THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE.
AND I THINK THIS EFFORT HAS
ALWAYS BEEN ONE TO GET TO THE
BOTTOM OF WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED,
WHAT LAWS WEREN'T FOLLOWED TO
THE TEE, AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO
CORRECT IT.
AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE
LEGISLATURE REALLY NEEDS TO DO,
AND WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO IN
THIS LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS
PUT FORWARD BILLS TO CORRECT
ISSUES THAT EVEN NON-PARTISAN
LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU HAS
FOUND IN THE LAST ELECTION.
>> WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A
HEATED REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR
GOVERNOR.
AND THE CANDIDATES ARE -- SOME
OF THEM ARE SEEMING TO TRY TO
TREAD THE LINE OF PLACATING SOME
OF THOSE TRUMP BELIEVERS THAT
SAY THE LAST ELECTION WAS STOLEN
AND THOSE THAT UNDERSTAND THAT'S
PROBABLY NOT THE CASE.
WHAT ARE YOU SEEING FROM YOUR
PERSPECTIVE IN TERMS OF THEIR
RHETORIC AND WHAT THAT MIGHT
MEAN IF THEY COME INTO OFFICE
AND HAVE TO STAND BEHIND THAT
FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION?
>> YEAH, I THINK ANYBODY THAT'S
FOCUSED ON 2020, THE 2020
ELECTION, WHETHER IT'S IN THE
PRIMARY OR IN THE GENERAL, IS
PROBABLY DOING THEMSELVES A
DISSERVICE BECAUSE I THINK A
VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HAVE
MOVED ON FROM THAT ISSUE,
ALTHOUGH THERE ARE, AS I SAID
EARLIER, THERE ARE CONCERNS OVER
HOW THE ELECTION WAS
ADMINISTERED IN SOME WAYS.
SO I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE
APPROPRIATE TO LOOK AT.
BUT IF WE'RE TALKING RIGGED OR
STOLEN ELECTIONS, I DON'T THINK
THAT'S GOING TO HELP ANYBODY
RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
>> BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF
LANGUAGE USED THAT HEDGED THE
BETTS.
EVEN YOU EARLIER JUST SAID
"LIKELY WAS VALID."
>> RIGHT.
>> AS OPPOSED TO VALID, WHICH
EVERY OTHER LEGITIMATE
ORGANIZATION HAS SAID SO FAR.
>> YEAH, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS
VALID.
I DO.
I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY EVIDENCE AT
THIS POINT TO PROVE OTHERWISE.
>> ONCE THEY'RE IN OFFICE,
THOUGH, WOULD YOU HAVE CONCERNS
ABOUT WHETHER A REPUBLICAN
GOVERNOR WOULD SIGN THE
ELECTORAL VOTES IN 2024 IF THERE
ARE UPROARS FROM REPUBLICAN BASE
VOTERS SAYING IT'S RIGGED?
>> NO, I DON'T BELIEVE ANY
SITTING REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR
WOULD SUBVERT THE WILL OF THE
PEOPLE.
I JUST -- I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S
THE CASE.
WISCONSIN HAS ONE OF THE MOST
SECURE SYSTEMS OF VOTING IN THE
COUNTRY.
THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER.
EVEN WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES,
WITH DROPBOXES AND CLERKS
FILLING OUT ABSENTEE BALLOT --
PARTS OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS, THOSE
ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE
PROBLEMATIC, BUT I DON'T THINK
THAT IT LEADS TO THE LEVEL OF,
YOU KNOW, FRAUD THAT WOULD
OVERTURN THE RESULTS OF AN
ELECTION.
>> YOU WON'T BE IN OFFICE NEXT
YEAR, BUT WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO
SEE THE LEGISLATURE DO WHEN IT
COMES TO ABORTION?
DOES THERE NEED TO BE A LAW
UPDATING THE 1849 LAW?
>> PERSONALLY I'VE ALWAYS BEEN
IN THE PLACE WHERE -- I'M
PRO-LIFE, I DO BELIEVE IN
EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE AND INCEST.
I'VE GOT A 12-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER
AT HOME AND IF, GOD FORBID,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT WERE TO
HAPPEN TO HER, I CAN'T IMAGINE
FORCING HER TO CONTINUE THAT
PREGNANCY FOR NINE MONTHS.
IT WOULD BE A DECISION THAT I
THINK SHE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE,
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT SOMETHING
SOMEBODY ENTERS INTO WILLINGLY.
AND I THINK THAT'S THE
DISTINCTION I MAKE.
IF YOU MAKE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE
TO HAVE SEX WITH SOMEBODY AND
YOU BECOME PREGNANT, WELL,
THAT'S YOUR CHOICE.
YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE WANTED THE
PREGNANCY, BUT YOU UNDERSTAND
THE RISKS.
SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T HAVE THAT
CHOICE AND IS FORCED THROUGH
RAPE OR INCEST, THEY'RE NOT
MAKING THAT CHOICE.
>> WHAT ABOUT MORE CLARITY FOR
THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER?
WE'VE ALREADY SEEN SOME EXAMPLES
IN WISCONSIN ABOUT DOCTORS NOT
KNOWING AT WHAT POINT THEY CAN
INTERVENE IN THE CASE OF A
MISCARRIAGE OR OTHER ILLNESSES.
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S
SOMETHING THAT THE LEGISLATURE
IS GOING TO HAVE TO WRESTLE
WITH.
I'M NOT SAWYER EXACTLY SURE EXACTLY HOW THAT
LANGUAGE WOULD BE DRAFTED TO
MAKE SURE IT WASN'T SOMETHING
THAT COULD BE USED IN JUST ABOUT
ANY CASE.
SO I'LL BE INTERESTED TO SEE
WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES IN THE
COMING SESSION.
>> ALL RIGHT.
REPRESENTATIVE STEINEKE, THANKS
FOR YOUR TIME.