>> THANK YOU.
>>> NATIONAL POLICING EXPERT
CONSULTANT AND FORMER CHIEF OF
MADISON POLICE NOBLE RAY SAYS
THE ESCALATION OF MASS SHOOTINGS
AND THE USE OF ASTALL- --
ASSAULT-STYLE RIFLES IS
FRIGHTENING.
WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE HIGHLAND
PARK SHOOTER THREAT CAME CLOSE
TO HOME, ALTHOUGH POLICE ARE NOT
SAYING WHICH CELEBRATION THE
SUSPECT HAD HIS EYES ON.
>> CHIEF RAY, THANKS VERY MUCH
FOR JOINING US.
>> ON THE FOURTH OF JULY WHEN
YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN
HIGHLAND PARK, ILLINOIS, AS A
FORMER POLICE OFFICER, POLICE
CHIEF, AND CITIZEN, WHAT WAS
YOUR REACTION?
>> MY REACTION WAS, JUST UTTER
TEST PAY FORMAN -- DESPAIR FOR
THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE.
YOU DON'T EXPECT FROM A LAW
ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT AND
CITIZEN STANDPOINT OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT TO HAPPEN AT A PARADE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AN URBAN
CENTER, ALTHOUGH IT'S ADJACENT
TO CHICAGO, YOU DON'T EXPECT
THAT.
AND I THINK PARENTS AND PEOPLE
WERE JUST IN SHOCK.
>> AND SO WE ALL KIND OF
POTENTIAL TARGETS THEN AT ANY
TIME FOR A MASS SHOOTER?
>> YEAH, YOU KNOW.
WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT
PARADES, GROCERY STORES,
ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, YOU JUST
NEVER KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING
TO HAPPEN.
SO THAT IS WHY I KNOW THAT
CONGRESS PASSED MAJOR
LEGISLATION A FEW WEEKS AGO ON
YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE COMPLEX
ISSUE OF GUNS AND GUN SAFETY AND
MASS SHOOTINGS.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE FINISHED
WITH THIS.
NOT -- NOT BY A LONG SHOT.
THERE'S TREMENDOUS FEAR AND THIS
TREMENDOUS FEAR CUTS ACROSS ALL
KIND OF BOUNDARIES, RACIAL
BOUNDARIES, RELIGIOUS
BOUNDARIES, AGE, YOU KNOW,
WHERE -- AS A PARENT, AS A GRAN
PARENT, YOU KNOW -- GRANDPARENT,
BECAUSE I THINK EVERY AMERICAN
WHEN THEY LOOK AT THAT, THEY
THINK OF THEMSELVES AND WHAT
THEY WOULD DO.
THEY CAN RELATE TO THAT BECAUSE
IT'S HAPPENING IN COMMON PLACES.
>> SO IF WE'RE NOT FINISHED,
WHAT'S TO BE DONE?
>> WHAT'S TO BE DONE IS -- I
TEND TO GO TO GRAVITATE TO THE
PEOPLE THAT TALK ABOUT THIS AS A
MULTI-FACETED APPROACH.
I THINK SPLITTING IT INTO A
DICHOTOMY SAYING IT'S GUNS OR
IT'S MENTAL HEALTH, DOES THE --
THAT'S NOT -- DOES NOT HELP THE
DIALOGUE ANY GOOD AT ALL,
BECAUSE IT'S COMPLEX.
HUNDREDS OF RED FLAG -- HOW DOES
A RED FLAG LAW WORK.
EVEN WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO -- AND
THIS -- THIS PARTICULAR
SITUATION IS STILL EVOLVING.
BUT WE EXPECT A LOT FROM PARENTS
AND RELATIVES TO BE THE ONES
THAT WOULD CONTACT LAW
ENFORCEMENT AND SAY, HEY, LOOK,
MY CHILD WAS DOING THIS.
THIS LOOKS OUT OF PLACE.
BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A LOVING
RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT CHILD.
AND SO IT'S A VERY COMPLEX.
NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THEIR KIDS
IN HANDCUFFS, BUT THE QUESTION
IS NO ONE DOES NOT WANT TO SEE
THEIR KIDS HARM SOMEONE OR END
UP IN PRISON FOR LIFE OR EVEN
WORSE.
>> MEANWHILE, WE LEARNED AFTER
THE FACT THAT THE SUSPECT IN
THIS HIGHLAND PARK MASS SHOOTING
MADE HIS WAY TO WISCONSIN AND
MADISON POTENTIALLY WITH SOME
IDEA OF DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR
HERE.
WHEN YOU HEARD THAT, WHAT DID
YOU THINK?
>> WELL, AGAIN, IT GETS CLOSER,
CLOSER TO HOME.
SO IT BECOMES PERSONAL.
AND SO WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A
NUMBER OF THINGS IN MY -- FROM A
PERSONAL STANDPOINT, I STARTED
TO THINK ABOUT WHERE WE WERE,
WHERE MY SONS WERE, WHERE MY
GRANDKIDS WERE THAT DAY AND WHAT
WE WERE DOING.
DO THEY COULD INTO HARM'S PLACE.
FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT
STANDPOINT, IT WAS -- YOU KNOW,
HOW ARE THEY RESPONDING.
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE TECHNIQUES
THAT THEY'RE USING TO RESPOND?
BECAUSE IT'S NOT COMMON FOR A
MASS SHOOTER TO LEAVE THE SCENE.
OR TYPICALLY THERE'S ARRESTED OR
THERE'S A QUOTE/UNQUOTE SUICIDE
BY COP OR THEY'RE ARRESTED
PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SCENE.
SO FOR SOMEONE WHO LEAVE A MASS
SHOOTING WITH THAT MUCH
DEVASTATION MAY GET NOT ONLY
ACROSS STATE LINES TO ANOTHER
CITY.
THAT'S RARE.
AND THANK GOD IT'S RARE.
BUT IT WAS -- IT WAS REALLY A
TENSE MOMENT I THINK, FOR A
COUPLE OF PEOPLE IN THE AREA.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT THE POPULATION --
FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE
AREA.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK WERE THE
POPULACE HERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN
WARNED ABOUT THAT?
>> I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING
THAT I BELIEVE LAW ENFORCEMENT,
THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES
SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND DISCUSS
THAT, HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN.
WHO -- WHO NOTIFIES THE PUBLIC,
WHAT INFORMATION SOME COME OUT?
BECAUSE THERE IS A BALANCE.
YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYONE
UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU DO WHEN
YOU'RE NOTIFIED OF AN AMBER
ALERT, BUT WHO INFORMATION COMES
OUT WHEN YOU HAVE A MASS
SHOOTING AND YOU'RE NOTIFYING
THE PUBLIC, YOU DON'T WANT THE
PUBLIC TO GET TOO UPSET AND
WHERE THEY'RE PARALYZED AND
ACTING.
BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU
WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE THE PROPER
PRECAUTIONS.
WHAT WERE THE PROPER PRECAUTIONS
UNDER THE SCENARIO.
>> WHAT IS YOUR OPINION AS
FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OF THESE
MILITARY-STYLE ASSAULT RIFLES IN
THE HANDS OF CIVILIANS?
>> THEY HAVE NO PLACE, NOT IN A
DOMESTIC SETTING.
THAT'S NOT EVEN IN -- AN
ARGUMENT OR DEBATE.
YOU -- HIGH CAPACITY, THE
ABILITY FOR HUMAN DESTRUCTION ON
THE BODY, I UNDERSTAND THE
SECOND AMENDMENT.
I SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SO MANY WAYS.
AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE
HOLD NEAR AND DEAR TO -- IT IS A
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
BUT I -- I READ THE CONSTITUTION
ALL THE TIME.
AND I'VE YET TO SEE A
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO AN AC14.
>> -- AK-47.
>> AS A POLICE OFFICER, DO THEY
SCARE YOU?
>> YES, ESPECIALLY WHERE THE
TRENDS ARE GOING RIGHT NOW.
THE LAST THREE TO FOUR YEARS,
MORE GUN PURCHASES, MORE PEOPLE
WEARING -- POSSESSING THEM IN
PUBLIC PLACES AND PUBLIC SPACES.
AND HERE'S THE DOWNSIDE OF WHERE
THIS IS GONNA GO.
IF YOU ARE, BASED UPON SOME OF
THE RECENT SUPREME RULINGS --
SUPREME COURT RULINGS, WHERE
YOU'RE MORE ABLE TO OPEN CARRY
OR CONCEALED CARRY, THAT MEANS
THE INTERACTION BETWEEN A POLICE
OFFICER AND THE CITIZEN, THAT
COULD CHANGE THE DYNAMIC OF WHAT
TAKES PLACE.
WE HAVE RELIED ON OUR ABILITY TO
COMMUNICATE WITH CITIZENS.
THE ABILITY TO BUILD A
PREPOUR -- RAPPORT, BUILD TRUST,
AND IF THE FIRST THING YOU'RE
THINKING ABOUT IS IS THIS PERSON
ARMED ALL THE TIME, THEN WHAT DO
YOU DO?
>> ON ANOTHER MATTER, THE ARREST
OF THE SUSPECT IN THE HIGHLAND
PARK SHOOTING WAS DESCRIBED AS
WITHOUT INCIDENT.
PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT KIND OF
THE STARK DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
THAT ARREST OF A SUSPECT IN A
MASS MURDER, ESSENTIALLY, AND
THE ARREST OF A YOUNG BLACK MAN
IN AKRON, OHIO, WHO WAS GUNNED
DOWN DURING A TRAFFIC STOP.
>> UH-HUH.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> I DO THINK HISTORICALLY, ASK
CURRENTLY, WITH TODAY -- AND
CURRENTLY WITH TODAY'S SOCIAL
CONTEXT, AND WHAT
AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN PARTICULAR
BELIEVE, THERE'S A QUESTION IN
TERMS OF YOU KNOW, HOW DO I
RESPOND TO POLICE WHEN I'M ASKED
TO STOP AT A TRAFFIC STOP OR
WHEN I'M TOLD TO COMPLY.
IT SHOULD BE EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER
THE LAW.
AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED
THE SAME.
I THINK THAT IS THE ISSUE.
BUT HISTORICALLY, AND WITH
TODAY'S SOCIAL CONTEXT, I
PERSONALLY AND I HAVE RELATIVES,
I HAVE FRIENDS -- THERE IS A BIT
OF CONFUSION, A BIT OF FEAR THAT
IF I COMPLY, WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
IF I DON'T COMPLY, WHAT WILL
HAPPEN.
AND AGAIN, THAT IS A DIALOGUE
THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE,
SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE
BETWEEN THE POLICE AND MANY
COMMUNITIES THAT THEY SERVE.
>> ALL RIGHT.