WISCONSIN.
>> HAVING BOTH THE OLD AND NEW
LAWS ON THE BOOKS MAKES THE 1849
LAW UNENFORCEABLE.
THAT'S ACCORDING TO WISCONSIN
ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH KAUL.
HE'S FILED A LAWSUIT SEEKING TO
CLARIFY WHETHER THE 173 BAN IS
STILL IN PLACE.
JOSH KAUL JOINS US NOW FROM THE
CAPITOL.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> WHY ACCORDING TO YOUR LAWSUIT
WOULD THE 1849 ABORTION BAN BE
UNENFORCEABLE?
>> WELL, FIRST I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT JUST TO SAY WHERE WE
ARE, WHICH IS YOU KNOW, WE'RE A
WEEK AFTER ROE VS. WADE WAS
OVERRULED AND THE IMPACT IS THAT
WOMEN IN WISCONSIN TODAY ARE
LESS FREE, LESS EQUAL, AND LESS
SAFE THAN THEY WERE JUST A WEEK
AGO.
SO WE ARE DOING WHAT WE CAN TO
WORK TO RESTORE ACCESS TO SAFE
AND LEGAL ABORTION IN WISCONSIN.
NOW, OUR SUIT ARGUES THAT THE
18 -- MID 1800s BAN DOESN'T
COME INTO EFFECT EVEN THOUGH
IT'S STILL ON THE BOOKS FOR A
COUPLE REASONS.
THERE WERE A SERIES OF LAWS THAT
WERE PASSED MUCH MORE RECENTLY
THAT ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THAT
19th CENTURY BAN, SO FOR
EXAMPLE THE 19th SEN TRAY BAN
DOESN'T HAVE AN EXCEPTION EVEN
TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE
MOTHER.
BUT THE NEW LEGISLATION DOES.
AND IT CAN'T BE SIMULTANEOUSLY
LEGAL AND ILLEGAL FOR A DOCTOR
TO PERFORM AN ABORTION THAT
PROTECTS THE HEALTH OF THE
MOTHER.
SO TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR
STATEUTES CONTINUE TO HAVE A
EFFECT IN MORE RECENT ONES, THE
OLD ONE CAN'T BE ENFORCED.
OLD STATUTE HAS GONE INTO DISUSE
BECAUSE IT WAS RARELY USED
BEFORE AND IT HASN'T BEEN USED
IN THE LAST 50 YEARS.
>> HAS THIS HAPPENED BEFORE
WHERE AN EARLIER LAW THAT
REMAINS ON THE BOOKS WAS
SUPERCEDED BY A LATER ONE?
>> THERE IS PRESS SENT FOR
LAWS -- PRECEDENT FOR LAWS TO BE
IMPLIEDBLY REPEALED.
IT'S NOT COMPLON.
BUT THIS IS NOT -- COMMON.
BUT THAT IS NOT A COMMON
SITUATION.
WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE THE
LEGISLATOR ACTED ABORTION WAS
PROTECTED.
THAT A RIGHT WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM
AMERICANS AFTER ALMOST 50 YEARS.
WE'RE IN UNCHARTED WATERS HERE.
BUT YOU KNOW, THAT SORTING
ISSUES OUT SO THEIRS CLARITY --
SO THERE'S CLARITY AS TO WHAT
THE LAW IS IS CRITICAL.
>> EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE
COMPETING ABORTION LAWS ON THE
BOOKS, IS IT AS OF TODAY
ILLEGAL?
PROVIDERS ARE CERTAINLY
PRACTICING THAT WAY WITH PLANNED
PARENTHOOD TURNING AWAY PEOPLE
IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING LAST
FRIDAY'S RULING.
BUT IS IT IMMEDIATELY ILLEGAL?
>> WELL, OUR ARGUMENT IS THAT
IT'S NOT BECAUSE THAT OL STATUTE
IS NOT IN EFFECT.
BUT PROVIDERS ARE OF COURSE --
THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE
THAT WHAT THEY'LL BE DOING COULD
LEAD TO A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
SO THIS SUIT WILL HELP DETERMINE
EXACTLY WHAT THE STATE OF THE
LAW IS.
ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S SO
IMPORTANT TO GO FORWARD IS THAT
WISCONSIN PROVIDERS NEED TO HAVE
CLARITY ABOUT WHAT THE STATE OF
THE LAW IS.
THE BEST WAY TO GET THAT CLARITY
WOULD BE FOR OUR LEGISLATURE TO
COME INTO SESSION AND ACT
LEGISLATION AND HOPEFULLY
PROTECT REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.
BUT HAVING THIS LITIGATION WILL
HOPEFULLY BEGIN THE PROCESS OF
PROVIDING CLARITY AS WE TRY TO
THINK ABOUT WHETHER AND HOW A
19th CENTURY LAW THAT WAS IN
PLACE WOULD APPLY TO 21ST
CENTURY MEDICINE.
>> STILL, COULD A D.A. INTENT ON
PROSECUTING A CASE UNDER THE
1849 LAW DO SO NOW?
>> WELL, MY OFFICE CAN'T STOP
THEM FROM DOING SO.
THEY CAN CHOOSE TO USE THEIR
RESOURCES HOWEVER THEY WANT.
I WOULD DISCOURAGE THEM FROM
DOING THAT BECAUSE I'D MUCH
RATHER SEE THEM USING THEIR
LIMITED RESOURCES TO PROSECUTE
SERIOUS OFFENSES LIKE HOMICIDES
OR SEXUAL ASSAULTS OR DRUG
TRAFFICKING.
BUT WHETHER THEY CAN OR NOT WILL
ULTIMATELY DEPEND ON WHAT
HAPPENS WITH OUR SUIT, BECAUSE
IF THE LAW CAN'T BE ENFORCED, IF
WE RECEIVE THAT RULING IN THE
SUIT, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO
BASIS FOR ENFORCEMENT.
BUT IF THE SUPREME COURT FINDS
THAT IT CAN BE ENFORCED, THEN
IT'S UP TO THE D.A.s WHETHER
THEY PROSECUTE CASES.
>> WHAT'S YOUR SENSE AS TO HOW
FAST ANY KIND OF RULING MIGHT BE
MADE ON THIS?
>> I THINK IT'S LIKELY TO BE A
MATTER OF MONTHS.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A LEGAL
DISPUTE FUNDAMENTALLY, NOT A
DISPUTE ABOUT UNDERLYING FACTS.
AND SO I THINK A COURT CAN RULE
RELATIVELY QUICKLY.
BUT THERE WILL BE BRIEFING.
THERE WILL BE ARGUMENTS BEFORE
THE COURT.
AND THEN AFTER THE CIRCUIT COURT
RULES, THERE'S LIKELY GOING TO
BE APPEALS AS WELL.
SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE
CLARITY IMMEDIATELY.
IT'S GOING TO TAKE A BIT OF
TIME.
BUT I WANT TO MOVE THROUGH THE
COURT SYSTEM AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE.
IN THE MEANTIME, I HAVE CALLED
AND CONTINUE TO CALL ON THE
LEGISLATOR TO COME INTO SESSION
AND HELP PROVIDE SOME CLARITY SO
DOCTORS AND NURSES AND WOMEN IN
WISCONSIN HAVE A BETTER
UNDERSTANDING, A CLEARER PICTURE
OF WHAT THE LAW IS.
>> SO WE SHOULD TELL OUR VIEWERS
THAT WE DID INVITE REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATIVE LEADERS TO APPEAR
TONIGHT.
NEITHER OF THEM RESPONDED.
BUT HERE IS WHAT SPEAKER VOSS
SAID ABOUT YOUR LAWSUIT.
HE SAID, QUOTE, IT'S SAD THAT
REVERSE AND KAUL WANT TO BREAK
THE LAW INSTEAD OF WORK WITH THE
LEGISLATURE.
I'M CONFIDENT OUR COURTS WILL
SEE THROUGH THEIR TACTICS, HE
SAYS, AND UPHOLD THE LAW.
WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO SPEAKER
VOSS' STATEMENT?
>> WELL, FIRST, PART OF THE
ISSUE IS WE HAVE INCONSISTENT
LAWS.
AND WHICH SETS OF THOSE LAWS
APPLY IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE
WANT TOY SOLVE THROUGH THE
COURTS.
BUT WE ARE HAPPY TO WORK WITH
LEGISLATIVE LEADERS.
YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR CALLED
THE SPECIAL SESSION AND MOST
REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS DIDN'T EVEN
SHOW UP FOR THAT SPECIAL
SESSION.
THEY GAVELED IN AND GAVELED OUT
AND THEN JUST A FEW DAYS LATER,
WE WERE LEFT IN THIS STATE OF
LEGAL UNCERTAINTY BECAUSE ROE
WAS OVERTURNED AND WE STILL
HAVEN'T HEARD FROM OUR
LEGISLATORS.
THIS IS A HUGE DEVELOPMENT IN
WISCONSIN THAT'S IMPACTING MANY
PEOPLE'S LIVES.
AND WISCONSINITES DESERVE TO
HAVE THEIR LEGISLATORS STEP UP,
HEAR FROM THEM ON THESE ISSUES,
DEBATE THESE ISSUES, AND I HOPE
ACT TO PROTECT ACCESS TO SAFE
AND LEGAL ABORTION.
>> SO JUST BRIEFLY, IF YOU
WORKED WITH THE LEGISLATURE AT
THIS POINT, EVEN AFTER THAT
SPECIAL SESSION, WHAT WOULD YOU
SEEK?
>> WELL, I WOULD WANT THEM TO
RESTORE ACCESS TO SAFE AND LEGAL
ABORTION IN WISCONSIN.
YOU KNOW, THE SITUATION THAT WE
HAD IN WISCONSIN PRIOR TO ROE
BEING OVERTURNED WAS ACTUALLY A
FAIRLY RESTRICTIVE SET OF RULES.
A LOT OF THE LAWS THAT ARE IN
PLACE WERE SIGNED BY GOVERNOR
WALKER.
AND RETURNING TO THAT KIND OF
SITUATION, WHERE WOMEN WHO NEED
TO OBTAIN ABORTIONS ARE ABLE TO
GET THEM AND ARE SAFE DOING SO.
IT'S CRITICAL TO PROTECTING THE
HEALTH AND SAFETY OF WISCONSIN
WOMEN.
WE KNOW THAT WHEN ABORTION IS
ILLEGAL, IT DOESN'T STOP
ABORTION FROM HAPPENING.
WHAT IT STOPS IS SAFE AND LEGAL
ABORTION FROM HAPPENS.
WE'VE -- HAPPENING.
WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO
PROTECTING PEOPLE'S REPRODUCTIVE