PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> LATER DAY WE'RE POISED TO
PASS THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE
ACT OUT OF THE SENATE AND TAKE
THE NEXT STEP TO MAKE MARRIAGE
EQUALITY THE LAW OF THE LAND.
>> PROTECTING SAME-SEX MARRIAGE
TAKES ONE MAJOR STEP FORWARD.
>> THE BILL AS AMENDED HAS
PASSED.
>> MR. PRESIDENT, WHAT A GREAT
DAY.
WHAT A GREAT DAY.
[APPLAUSE]
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW"
SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN DESCRIBES
HER WORK SHEPHERDING THE RESPECT
FOR MARRIAGE ACT THROUGH THE
U.S. SENATE.
A FORMER STATE SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE WARNS OF A CASE THAT
COULD PERMANENTLY CEMENT POWER
OVER ELECTIONS IN THE
LEGISLATURE.
A WISCONSIN VILLAGE DIVIDED OVER
CONTAMINATED WATER, AND THE
EMERGENCY STATE OF EMS.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
DECEMBER 2ND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED FOR THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> LANDMARK LEGISLATION PASSED
THE U.S. SENATE ON A BIPARTISAN
VOTE THIS WEEK.
THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT
INSURES THAT SAME SEX AND
INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES ARE
ENSHRINED IN FEDERAL LAW.
THE BILL PASSED 61-36 ON TUESDAY
INCLUDING SUPPORT FROM 12
REPUBLICANS.
NOT AMONG THEM WISCONSIN'S OTHER
SENATOR REPUBLICAN RON JOHNSON.
IN A STATEMENT ON HIS NO VOTE HE
SAID IN PART THE DEMOCRATS
CONTINUE TO USE THIS TO CREATE A
STATE OF FEAR OVER A SETTLED
ISSUE IN ORDER TO DIVIDE
AMERICANS FOR THEIR POLITICAL
BENEFIT.
THE SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT DID NOT
PROVIDE SUFFICIENT PROTECTION
FOR THOSE WITH STRONGLY-HELD
RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.
THE CHAMBER'S FIRST OPENLY GAY
SENATOR, WISCONSIN DEMOCRAT
TAMMY BALDWIN WAS LEAD SPONSOR.
SHE JOINED US EARLIER FROM
WASHINGTON.
SENATOR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
JOINING US.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> SO HOW MEANINGFUL IS IT TO
YOU THAT THE RESPECT FOR
MARRIAGE ACT PASSED THE SENATE
THIS WEEK?
>> IT'S MEANINGFUL ON SO MANY
DIFFERENT LEVELS.
I WILL START WITH THE FACT THAT
I HAVE HEARD FROM SO MANY WHO
ARE EXPRESSING GRATITUDE BECAUSE
THEY HAVE BEEN SERIOUSLY WORRIED
ABOUT THE FUTURE RECOGNITION OF
THEIR MARRIAGES BECAUSE OF THE
THREAT THAT HANGS OVER IT AFTER
THE DOBBS DECISION OF THE U.S.
SUPREME COURT EARLIER THIS
SUMMER.
AND COUNTLESS INDIVIDUALS HAVE
SAID HOW MUCH IT MEANS TO HAVE A
LITTLE BIT MORE PEACE OF MIND
NOW THAT THE RESPECT FOR
MARRIAGE ACT IS HEADED TOWARDS
BEING SIGNED INTO LAW BY
PRESIDENT BIDEN.
IT'S ALSO MEANINGFUL IN, I
THINK, A SORT OF BIGGER ARC OF
HISTORY, IF YOU WILL.
THIS VOTE WOULD HAVE BEEN
UNIMAGINABLE JUST A DECADE AGO.
THAT'S NOT WHERE THE SENATE WAS,
IT'S NOT WHERE THE CONGRESS WAS
AND THAT'S NOT WHERE THE PEOPLE
OF THE UNITED STATES WERE.
AND SO I THINK HEARTS AND MINDS
HAVE CHANGED.
IN FACT I KNOW THAT'S THE CASE.
70% PLUS OF AMERICANS IN
WISCONSIN SUPPORT MARRIAGE
EQUALITY AND I GUESS WE'RE
GAINING ON THOSE NUMBERS IN THE
U.S. SENATE.
WE HAD AT LEAST 61 OUT OF 100
JOIN TOGETHER TO PASS THE
RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT.
IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT WHERE WE'RE
MOVING AS A COUNTRY.
>> WHAT PRECISELY DOES THE ACT
PROVIDE FOR GAY OR INTERRACIAL
MARRIED COUPLES?
>> YEAH, SO IF EITHER OF THE
SUPREME COURT RULINGS THAT
PROTECTED SAME-SEX MARRIAGE OR
MADE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE THE LAW
OF THE LAND, OR MAY INTERRACIAL
MARRIAGES POSSIBLE IN EVERY
SINGLE STATE, IF EITHER OF THOSE
CASES WERE TO FALL, IT WOULD
REQUIRE THAT STATES, REGARDLESS
OF WHAT THEIR STATE LAW OR
CONSTITUTION SAYS, WOULD HAVE TO
RESPECT AND HONOR THROUGH THE
FULL FAITH AND CREDIT CLAUSE OF
THE U.S. CONSTITUTION MARRIAGES
THAT WERE VALID WHERE ENTERED
AND WHEN ENTERED.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A STATE LIKE
WISCONSIN, WHERE WE HAVE A
CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING
SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, WISCONSIN
WOULD NEVERTHELESS STILL HAVE TO
RECOGNIZE ANY VALID SAME-SEX
MARRIAGE THAT WAS ENTERED INTO
EITHER IN WISCONSIN WHEN IT WAS
LEGAL, RIGHT?
OR IN ANOTHER STATE WHERE IT IS
OR WAS LEGAL.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT THE
RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT DOES IS
REPEAL THE 1996 FEDERAL ACT
CALLED THE DEFENSE OF MARRIAGE
ACT.
THAT CREATED A FEDERAL BARRIER
TO RECOGNITION OF SAME-SEX
MARRIAGES.
IT IS STILL ON THE BOOKS, AND IT
HAS BEEN RENDERED TOOTHLESS BY
THE SUPREME COURT IN THEIR
MARRIAGE EQUALITY CASE BUT IT IS
STILL ON THE BOOKS.
SO THIS GETS RID OF IT.
IT WILL BE OFF THE BOOKS.
>> HOW IN THIS HYPER POLARIZED
POLITICAL LANDSCAPE DID YOU GET
THE REPUBLICAN VOTES TO GET
HERE?
>> I THINK THERE WERE A NUMBER
OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND FRANKLY,
YOU KNOW, TALKING TO REPUBLICANS
WHO WANTED TO GET TO YES, BUT
LISTENING, CANCELING TO WHAT
THEIR CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS
WERE AND BEING ABLE TO WORK WITH
SOME REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ON
CRAFTING LANGUAGE TO CLARIFY
ANSWERS TO THEIR QUESTIONS.
SO LET ME RESTATE THAT I THINK A
HUGE DIFFERENCE HAS BEEN MADE
THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY REPUBLICAN
COLLEAGUES WHO DON'T KNOW A GAY
COUPLE, A LESBIAN COUPLE, WHO
DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT MARRIAGE
EQUALITY HAS MEANT IN AMERICA.
>> WHAT IS YOUR COMMENT ON
WISCONSIN'S OTHER SENATOR NEWLY
REELECTED REPUBLICAN RON
JOHNSON'S NO VOTE ON THIS?
>> OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE TO ASK
HIM.
HE WAS ON ALL SIDES OF THIS
ISSUE, WHICH WAS QUITE PUZZLING.
I KNOW EARLY ON HE TALKED WITH
THE WISCONSIN REPORTER AND SAID
HE SAW NO REASON TO OBJECT TO IT
TO NOT PASS IT.
AND THEN WENT THROUGH LOTS OF --
CITING SOME OF THE RELIGIOUS
LIBERTY CONCERNS THAT SOME OF MY
OTHER REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES
VOICED.
BUT WE WERE ABLE TO FASHION A
RESPONSE TO THAT THAT LED TO THE
ENDORSEMENT OF THIS BROAD
COALITION OF FAITH-BASED
ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING THE
CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER
DAY SAINTS, THE 7TH DAY
ADVENTISTS, EVANGELICAL
CHURCHES.
A GROUP THAT REPRESENTS
CHRISTIAN COLLEGES AND
UNIVERSITIES.
ORTHODOX JEWS.
IT WAS AN AMAZING COALITION WHO
IS SAYING LOOK, HAVING THESE
RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES CLARIFIED
AND TO CLARIFY IN THE BILL THIS
IS STATUS QUO.
>> WE KNOW THE BILL GOES BACK TO
THE HOUSE FOR A FINAL VOTE
BEFORE THE PRESIDENT SIGNS IT.
BUT WHAT MORE IS LEFT TO DO IN
YOUR MIND ON BEHALF OF LGBTQ
CITIZENS?
>> WE HAVE WORK TO DO TO ADDRESS
THESE REPEALS OF THESE BANS OF
SAME-SEX MARRIAGE IN THE STATES,
INCLUDING BY AMENDING OUR
CONSTITUTION IN WISCONSIN.
BUT ON THE BROADER QUESTION, YOU
KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME THAT
WE'RE CELEBRATING THE PASSAGE OF
THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT, WE
KNOW THAT RECORD NUMBERS OF
ANTI-LGBTQ LEGISLATION,
PARTICULARLY FOCUSED ON
TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUALS AND
TRANSGENDER YOUTH ARE BEING
INTRODUCED IN STATES ACROSS
AMERICA AND THE RHETORIC EXISTS
ON CAPITOL HILL.
A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE TO
ACHIEVE FULL EQUALITY AND
EQUITY.
THAT WORK REMAINS AHEAD OF US.
>> WHAT WILL IT BE LIKE FOR YOU
TO SEE THIS ACT SIGNED INTO LAW?
>> I THINK I MIGHT GET A BIT
CHOKED UP.
I KNOW IT WILL MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.
I KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE JUST WERE
RESTING A LITTLE BIT EASIER UPON
SENATE PASSAGE KNOWING THAT THIS
WAS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BECOME
LAW.
>> SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> A HIGHLY-ANTICIPATED U.S.
SUPREME COURT CASE SET FOR ORAL
ARGUMENTS NEXT WEEK HAS LEGAL
EXPERTS SOUNDING THE ALARM ON
ITS IMPLICATIONS FOR EVERY
STATE, PERHAPS MOST ESPECIALLY
INCLUDING WISCONSIN.
THE HIGH COURT TAKES UP A CASE
ORIGINATING OUT OF NORTH
CAROLINA WHERE THAT STATE'S HIGH
COURT STRUCK DOWN
REPUBLICAN-DRAWN CONGRESSIONAL
MAPS CALLING THEM A PARTISAN
GERRYMANDER.
REPUBLICANS THEN APPEALED TO THE
U.S. SUPREME COURT ARGUING STATE
LEGISLATURES HAVE SOLE AUTHORITY
TO SET RULES FOR ELECTIONS.
FORMER WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE JANINE GESKE JOINED IN A
BRIEF CALLING ON THE HIGH COURT
TO REJECT THIS INDEPENDENT STATE
LEGISLATURE THEORY.
SHE JOINS US NOW.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> SO WHY ARE YOU SOUNDING THE
ALARM ON THIS?
>> I THINK -- FIRST I THINK IT'S
UNDER THE RADAR FOR PEOPLE TO
UNDERSTAND THE COURT IS
CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT THERE
WILL BE NO STATE COURT REVIEW OF
ANY ACTIONS BY LEGISLATURES ON
CONGRESSIONAL RACES.
SO HOW THE ELECTION RULES ARE
SET, HOW PEOPLE VOTE, HOW THEY
ARE COUNTED, AND ULTIMATELY HOW
THE LINES ARE DRAWN WILL NOT BE
REVIEWABLE BY STATE COURTS.
THAT'S PRETTY UNIQUE.
THE GOVERNOR HAS NO VETO POWER
OVER IT AND THE COURTS HAVE NO
REVIEWABILITY, SO I THINK IT IS
REALLY IMPORTANT.
REALLY TAKING AWAY THE VOICE OF
THE PEOPLE THROUGH THE
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY AND HAVING
LEGISLATURES MAKE THE FINAL CALL
ON THIS.
IN NORTH CAROLINA THE COURT HELD
THAT IT VIOLATED, WHAT THE
LEGISLATURE DONE VIOLATED THE
NORTH CAROLINA CONSTITUTION.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE U.S. SUPREME
COURT IS BEING ASKED TO THROW
THAT UP AND SAY IT'S NOT UP TO
NORTH CAROLINA COURTS TO DECIDE
THAT.
>> SO IN THE CASE OF WISCONSIN
SHOULD THAT COME TO PASS THAT
THE HIGH COURT AGREED WITH THE
NORTH CAROLINA REPUBLICANS,
WISCONSIN'S OUTSIZED REPUBLICAN
MAJORITY LEGISLATURE CERTAINLY
COULD THROW ITS WEIGHT AROUND.
BUT WOULD IT IN YOUR MIND?
>> I THINK IT WOULD, YOU KNOW.
THE REPUBLICAN-LED LEGISLATURE
HAS BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK ON
ELECTIONS AND CHANGING VOTING
RULES AND, YOU KNOW -- BUT
FORTUNATELY THERE IS ALWAYS THAT
REVIEWABILITY OF THE COURT.
IN SOME CASES, EVEN THOUGH WE
HAVE A COURT THAT'S DIVIDED,
SOME CASES HAVE REVERSED SOME OF
THE THINGS THE LEGISLATURE HAS
DONE AND SOME HAVE AFFIRMED IT.
BUT NOT TO HAVE THAT
REVIEWABILITY WOULD GIVE MORE
POWER TO THE LEGISLATURE.
I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THEY WOULD
TAKE IT.
>> SO THIS THEORY WOULD YOU SAY
IS PUSHED BY EXTREME PARTISANS?
IT'S EXACTLY WHAT WAS AT PLAY
WHEN REPUBLICAN FALSE ELECTORS
IN WISCONSIN TRIED TO TOSS UP
BIDEN'S SLATE FOR TRUMP
ELECTORS.
WHERE DO YOU THINK THE U.S.
SUPREME COURT WILL GO WITH THIS?
>> IT'S INTERESTING.
THERE ARE AT LEAST FOUR
JUSTICES, THE MORE CONSERVATIVE
ONES THAT VOICED AN INTEREST IN
THIS THEORY.
JOHN ROBERTS HAS AS WELL.
I DON'T THINK JOHN ROBERTS WILL
DO SOMETHING TO TAKE POWER AWAY
FROM THE STATE COURTS.
THAT'S JUST MY SENSE.
HE FEELS VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THE
IMPORTANCE OF THE JUDICIARY AND
THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE
JUDICIARY AND THERE IS AN AMICUS
BRIEF REPRESENTING ALL THE CHIEF
JUSTICES FROM ALL 50 STATES
ASKING THE COURT NOT TO ADOPT
THIS LEGISLATIVE THEORY.
AND I HAVE -- IT IS A GUT
FEELING FROM WATCHING JOHN
ROBERTS THAT HE WON'T GO ALONG
WITH IT.
N WHICH CASE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE
ENOUGH VOTES.
BUT WE'LL SEE WITH THE ARGUMENT
NEXT WEEK.
>> WHAT WILL YOU BE LISTENING
FOR FROM JUSTICES?
>> ACTUALLY JOHN ROBERTS.
THE KINDS OF QUESTIONS HE WILL
ASK.
THE CONSERVATIVE ONES INDICATED
THEY ARE DOING A VERY NARROW AND
NOT VERY POPULAR READING OF THE
U.S. CONSTITUTION IN TERMS OF
CONTROL OF ELECTIONS AND THEY'VE
WRITTEN ON THAT IN THE PAST.
I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY ELSE
WHO, YOU KNOW, THE MORE MODERATE
OR LIBERAL OR WHATEVER YOU WANT
TO CALL THEM JUSTICES WOULD GO.
IT'S UP TO JOHN ROBERTS TO MAKE
THE CALL, I THINK.
I'LL BE REAL INTERESTED IN WHAT
HE IS ASKING THEM.
IN PARTICULAR WHAT HE IS ASKING
THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BROUGHT
THIS SUIT ABOUT TAKING AWAY THE
POWER OF THE STATE COURTS.
>> IN THE END, HOW IN YOUR MIND
WOULD GIVING LEGISLATURES SOLE
AUTHORITY OVER ELECTIONS THWART
THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE?
>> WELL, IT WOULD TAKE -- YOU
KNOW, IN OUR STATE, WE ELECT AN
INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY TO BE A
CHECK AND BALANCE ON OUR
GOVERNOR AND ON THE LEGISLATURE.
IT WILL TAKE THAT CHECK AND
BALANCE AWAY.
AND THE ONLY ATTACK WOULD BE TO
A FEDERAL COURT IF A FEDERAL
COURT WOULD TAKE IT.
SO IT REALLY DOES TAKE THAT
INDEPENDENT REVIEW BY THE STATE,
CONSISTENT WITH THE STATE
CONSTITUTION OF WHETHER THIS WAS
A LAWFUL GERRYMANDERED OR
WHETHER IT'S A LAWFUL RULE.
I THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN HOW
IMPORTANT THAT IS OVER THE LAST
SEVERAL ELECTIONS, WHERE PEOPLE
ARE ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER
ELECTIONS ARE VALID OR INVALID
AND HOW YOU COUNT VOTES AND
THINGS.
NOT TO HAVE REVIEWABILITY IN THE
STATE IS VERY DANGEROUS.
>> FORMER SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
STATE OF WISCONSIN JANINE GESKE,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> WE NOW TURN TO CENTRAL
WISCONSIN WHERE THE DISCOVERY OF
NITRATE IN DRINKING WATER IS
POSING A THREAT TO PUBLIC HEALTH
IN A SMALL VILLAGE.
OUR REPORTER NATHAN DENZIN TAKES
US TO NELSONVILLE FOR THE STORY.
>> IT STARTED WHEN I BOUGHT THIS
HOUSE.
>> TEAR ONHAS LIVED IN
NELSONVILLE FOR TEN YEARS.
WHEN HE FIRST MOVED IN AND
STARTED TESTING, HIS PRIVATE
WELL SAW HIGH NITRATE LEVELS.
>> THEY OFFERED ANOTHER
SCREENING IN THE VILLAGE OF AM
HERS AND I DECIDED TO GET A
BUNCH OF GLASS MASON JARS AND
TOOK THEM AROUND AND COLLECTED
SAMPLES FROM ALL MY NEIGHBORS
AND ABOUT HALF OF THOSE SAMPLES
CAME BACK ABOVE TEN.
>> ABOVE TEN MEANS MORE THAN TEN
PARTS PER MILLION THE LISTED
UNSAFE LIMIT FOR NITRATES.
IF YOU'VE EVER DRIVEN BY FARMS
IN WISCONSIN, CHANCES ARE YOU'VE
SMELLED MANURE GETTING SPRAYED
ON CROPS.
WHAT YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW, THE
PROCESS OF FERTILIZING FARMLAND
THE LEAVE A CHEMICAL CALLED
NITRATE IN THE SOIL.
THEY CAN HAVE SERIOUS HEALTH
EFFECTS IF THEY LEECH INTO
DRINKING WATER.
NITRATES ARE PRODUCED NATURALLY
WHEN MANURE IS SPRAYED ON CROPS.
NITRATE IS NECESSARY FOR MOST
CASH CROPS LIKE CORN OR ALFALFA
TO GROW.
GEORGE KRAFT.
>> RAINWATER AND SNOW MELT, THEY
WASH THE NITRATE DOWN THROUGH
THE SOIL AND IT'S A SLIPPERY
CHEMICAL THAT DOESN'T WANT TO
STICK AND MOVES THROUGH THE SOIL
PROFILE AND GETS TO GROUNDWATER.
>> NORMALLY WISCONSIN'S
CLAY-RICH SOIL FILTERS OUT
NITRATE BEFORE THE CHEMICAL CAN
REACH PRIVATE WELLS.
HOWEVER, IN THE CENTRAL SANDS
RIDGE OWN IN AND AROUND PORTAGE
COUNTY NITRATES MOVE QUICKLY
THROUGH SANDY SOIL AND
INFILTRATE GROUNDWATER.
THE WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH SERVICES SAYS HIGH LEVELS
OF NITRATE IN DRINKING WATER CAN
CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS, THYROID
DISEASE AND INCREASE THE RISK OF
COLON CANCER.
ANY LEVEL ABOVE TEN PARTS PER
MILLION.
NELSONVILLE HAS BEEN DEALING
WITH NITRATE PROBLEM SINCE 2018.
IT IS LIKELY THE PROBLEM HAS
EXISTED IN THE AREA FOR DECADES.
>> IN 2018 THE RESIDENTS WHO
LIVE WITHIN THE VILLAGE OF
NELSONVILLE STARTED ASKING
QUESTIONS REGARDING THAT YOUR
WATER QUALITY AND WHEN WE
STARTED TRYING TO FIND DATA TO
ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS, WE
REALIZED THERE REALLY WASN'T A
WHOLE LOT.
>> USING GRANT MONEY, PORTAGE
COUNTY WATER RESOURCE SPECIALIST
JEN MCNELLY AND OTHER COUNTY
SCIENTISTS SAMPLED 60 OF THE
VILLAGE'S 80 PRIVATE WELLS AND
FOUND RESULTS THAT ALARMED HER.
ABOUT HALF OF ALL WELLS IN
NELSONVILLE SHOW NITRATE LEVELS
ABOVE THE SAFE LIMIT OF TEN
PARTS PER MILLION WITH SOME EVEN
REACHING A DANGEROUS TIPPING
POINT OF OVER 30 PARTS PER
MILLION.
IF NITRATE LEVELS REACH 30 PARTS
PER MILLION WATER CAN NO LONGER
BE CLEANED AND MADE SAFE.
HOWEVER, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO
TELL IF YOUR WATER IS
CONTAMINATED UNLESS YOU
REGULARLY TEST IT.
>> IT DOESN'T TASTE ANY
DIFFERENT.
IT DOESN'T LOOK ANY DIFFERENT.
THERE IS NO SMELL TO IT.
IT TASTES GREAT.
>> MARK BRUEGGEMANN HAS WELL
WATER ABOVE TEN PARTS PER
MILLION.
IT APPROACHES THE 30 PARTS PER
MILLION LIMIT.
>> WE CAN'T GO ON WITH THAT
WATER.
IT IS NECESSARY FOR ANYTHING YOU
WANT TO DO.
>> BREWING MAN LIVES IN A HOUSE
WITH HIS WIFE DIAGNOSED WITH
ALZHEIMER'S.
HE SAID AFTER GETTING RESULTS
THAT SHOWED HIS WATER AT
DANGEROUS LEVELS HE CONTACTED
CULLIGAN TO INSTALL A REVERSE
OSMOSIS MACHINE, RO MACHINES CAN
FILTER NITRATE UNDER 30 PARTS
PER MILLION.
BRUEGGEMANN SAYS HIS WIFE WOULD
OFTEN DRINK WATER FROM THE
FAUCET NOT CONNECTED TO THE RO
MACHINE.
>> WE NOW KEEP JUGS OF WATER IN
THE REFRIGERATOR AND LOIS PRETTY
MUCH DOESN'T GET HER OWN WATER
ANYMORE.
>> RO MACHINES ARE ONE BAND-AID
SOLUTION.
HIS FAMILY OPTED TO GET THEIR
WATER FROM A TOWN IN LYND 40
MILES AWAY FROM NELSONVILLE.
>> NOT TOO BAD.
ALMOST 30 DEGREES.
SWIMMING WHETHER IN SCONNIE.
>> I DRIVE WEEKLY AND FILL UP
ANY SEVEN GALLON JUGS.
I FILL 4 OR 5 OF THEM.
>> HE SAYS HE TESTED THIS WATER
TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAVE
NITRATE AND NOW MAKES THE
90-MINUTE JOURNEY ABOUT ONCE A
WEEK.
>> IN THE SUMMER IT'S NOT TOO
BAD.
IN THE WINTERTIME IT CAN SUCK.
IT GETS ALL ICE AND HEAVY.
>> THE REST OF THE RESIDENTS
WHERE THE NITRATES COME FROM.
>> DIRECTORS OF EMERGENCY
MEDICAL SERVICES ACROSS
WISCONSIN ARE WARNING OF A
SYSTEM ON THE BRINK.
THIS IS ACCORDING TO OUR NEXT
GUEST WHO SAYS THERE IS NOT
ENOUGH MONEY AND NOT ENOUGH
PEOPLE TO PERFORM THE LIFESAVING
WORK.
AND THAT EMS HAS RELIED TOO
HEAVILY ON VENAL TIERS FOR TOO
LONG.
JAMES SMALL IS THE RURAL
OUTREACH MANAGER FOR THE
WISCONSIN ASSOCIATION OF RURAL
HEALTH.
HOW IS THE EMS SYSTEM ON THE
BRINK?
>> RIGHT NOW IN MANY COMMUNITIES
AROUND THE STATE AND AROUND THE
COUNTRY THIS ISN'T JUST A
WISCONSIN ISSUE, IT IS A
NATIONAL ISSUE THAT'S GOING ON.
THERE IS MANY COMMUNITIES THAT
HAVE HISTORICALLY DEPENDED ON
VOLUNTEERS OR NEAR VOLUNTEERS
WHERE THEY'RE BEING A PAID A
SMALL AMOUNT BUT NOT A FULL-TIME
WAGE FOR PROVIDING EMS RESPONSE.
AND WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS THAT
WE'VE HAD A DECLINE IN THE
NUMBER OF PEOPLE AVAILABLE TO DO
THAT.
AND THERE IS NOT THE FINANCIAL
RESOURCES TO REPLACE THEM WITH
FULL-TIME STAFF.
SO AS YOU LOOK AROUND THE STATE
AT WHAT THE SYSTEM LOOKS LIKE,
ABOUT A THIRD OR MAYBE A LITTLE
OVER A THIRD OF AMBULANCE
SERVICES IN WISCONSIN TODAY ARE
NOT ABLE TO STAFF 24/7, 365 LIKE
THEY ARE REQUIRED TO.
SO ONE IN THREE LET'S SAY.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE IS
ANOTHER THIRD THAT ARE CONCERNED
THAT THEY CAN'T DO THAT THROUGH
2023.
SO WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR THEY MAY
HAVE SYSTEM OUTAGES.
ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IT PLACES
THE BURDEN ON THE NEIGHBORING
SERVICES TO HANDLE THEIR CALLS
AND EVEN BEEN SITUATIONS WHERE
SOMEBODY HAS CALLED 911 AND THE
AMBULANCE NEVER MADE IT TO THE
HOUSE BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GET
AN AMBULANCE FOR THEM.
>> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH
STAKEHOLDERS, LAWMAKERS ARE
AWARE OF WHAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED
AS A CRISIS?
>> YES.
IN THE DISCUSSIONS I'VE HAD IN
THE LAST FEW MONTHS WITH THE
LEGISLATURE, I BELIEVE THEY'RE
VERY AWARE THAT THERE IS A
CRISIS AND ARE PLANNING ON
WORKING TOWARDS A SOLUTION TO
THAT IN THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE
SESSION.
>> DOES THE SOLUTION TO THAT, IS
IT MONEY?
IS THAT WHAT MUNICIPALITIES
NEED?
>> OH, THAT'S PROBABLY FIRST AND
FOREMOST AREA WE NEED TO GO DOWN
IS INCREASING THE FUNDING TO
LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.
RIGHT NOW THE FUNDING THAT COMES
FROM THE STATE THROUGH THE
SHARED REVENUE PROGRAM IS THE
SAME AMOUNT IT WAS IN 1993.
TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE.
IN 1993 IS WHEN I GOT MY EMS
LICENSE ORIGINALLY AND I'M
ELIGIBLE TO RETIRE IN THREE
YEARS.
SO I COULD CONCEIVABLY HAVE
WORKED MY ENTIRE CAREER UNDER
THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHARED
REVENUE AS WHAT IS OUT THERE
TODAY.
>> HOW LONG HAS THE ISSUE WITH
EMS BEEN A SITUATION?
>> IT'S BEEN GROWING FOR
PROBABLY 20 YEARS AT THIS POINT.
IT JUST REACHED A CRISIS POINT.
SIX YEARS AGO THE LEGISLATURE
DID A LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL STUDY
COMMITTEE WHICH LOOKED AT ISSUES
AND WHAT SOLUTIONS RELATING TO
THIS BUT NEVER GOT ANY TRACTION
IMPLEMENTING ANY OF THE IDEAS
BROUGHT FORTH FROM THAT
COMMITTEE.
I THINK NOW WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT
POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT WHERE
MAYBE SOME OF THOSE IDEAS CAN BE
BROUGHT FORTH AGAIN.
>> IS THERE A REGION OF THE
STATE WHERE THIS IS MOST ACUTE?
>> IN THE MORE RURAL AREAS IT'S
MORE ACUTE FOR THE MOST PART.
BUT I THINK THAT AS YOU GO
AROUND THE STATE, YOU WILL FIND
THAT MOST REGIONS HAVE AREAS
THAT ARE HAVING DIFFICULTIES.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE CONDUCTING A
STUDY OF THE STATEWIDE SYSTEM
AND WE'RE SEEING REPORTS FROM
ALL OVER THE STATE DESCRIBING
SYSTEM OUTAGES AND LACK OF
STAFFING AND SO ON.
>> IS THERE A DOLLAR FIGURE FOR
WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO TRY TO
REPLACE THE AGING VOLUNTEER
POPULATION WITH FULL-TIME PAID
STAFF?
>> I WOULD IMAGINE THAT'S IN THE
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHETHER
IT'S 200 MILLION OR 500 MILLION
OR UPWARDS OF THAT.
BUT IN ADDITION TO THE EMS THERE
IS ALSO THE FIRE RESPONSE ISSUES
WITH THE VOLUNTEER FIRE
DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE VERY
SIMILAR.
LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS SIMILAR
ISSUES ALSO WITH FUNDING AND NOT
ENOUGH PEOPLE.
SO PUBLIC SAFETY AS A WHOLE IS
HAVING A LOT OF CHALLENGES RIGHT
NOW THAT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT
SOLUTIONS FOR GOING FORWARD SO
WE CAN AT LEAST STOP THE
BLEEDING AND START BUILDING
THINGS BACK TO WHERE WE NEED TO
HAVE RESPONSE CAPABILITY.
YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT SOME OF
THESE TRAGIC INCIDENT THAT
HAPPEN AROUND THE COUNTRY.
IF ONE OF THOSE HAPPENED IN
CERTAIN AREAS OF OUR STATE RIGHT
NOW WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY
OF RESPONDING TO THOSE
INCIDENTS.
>> SO WHAT IS THE SITUATION LIKE
FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF WHO
DEDICATE YOUR LIFE'S WORK TO
SAVING OTHERS?
>> IT'S CHALLENGING.
I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING
IS THAT PEOPLE ARE BURNED OUT.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE NUMEROUS
SERVICES AROUND THE STATE THAT
ARE BEING OPERATED ON 3 OR 4
VOLUNTEERS TRYING TO COVER 24/7,
365.
IT IS A HUGE BURDEN TO PUT ON
SOMEBODY THAT ALREADY HAS A
FULL-T
FULL-TIME JOB.
THESE PEOPLE HAVE DONE ANYTHING
IN THEIR POWER TO MAKE IT WORK
BUT THEY CAN'T ANYMORE.
IN SOME CASES, THE SYSTEM
FAILURES ARE HAPPENING BECAUSE
OUR DEDICATED EMPLOYEE HAS
PASSED AWAY SO THEY'VE LOST THAT
CONTRIBUTION BECAUSE THEY WORKED
UNTIL THEY DIED.
THERE ARE SERVICES THAT HAVE AN
AVERAGE AGE ON THE ROSTER OF
OVER 70 YEARS OLD.
IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE WHERE
WE'RE AT AND LOOKING AT A
COLLAPSE OF THE SYSTEM IN
REGIONS AROUND THE STATE.
>> THAT'S SOUNDING THE ALARM.
JAMES SMALL, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AND CLICK ON THE
NEWS TAB.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG, HAVE A
GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.