>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
SIZE IS UP, THE U.S. SENATE
DEBATE WE JUST WATCHED.
REPUBLICAN BILL MCCOSHEN AND
SCOT ROSS ARE HERE.
WE'LL BE TAKING A LOOK AT SOME
EXCERPTS FROM THE DEBATE.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.
>> WE SAID YOU WOULD SIZE UP
WHAT YOU SAW IN THAT DEBATE.
WE'LL GO FIRST TO YOU.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
>> I WAS A LITTLE STUNNED.
THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES,
WISCONSIN ON THE MARQUETTE POLL
ARE INFLATION, CRIME, AND
EDUCATION.
WE DIDN'T HEAR ONE QUESTION
ABOUT INFLATION.
THAT'S ALSO THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE
NATIONALLY, FAR AND AWAY THE
NUMBER ONE ISSUE.
WASN'T A SINGLE QUESTION ON
INFLATION.
WASN'T ANY MENTION OF GAS PRICES
OR HOME HEATING PRICES OR RENT
OR GROCERIES.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE
CARE ABOUT.
THE FIRST QUESTION TONIGHT WAS
ABOUT SOME OBSCURE LITTLE PARDON
THAT THE PRESIDENT DID THIS WEEK
ABOUT MARIJUANA.
THEY TOTALLY MISSED THE POINT, I
THOUGHT.
>> SCOT?
>> I THINK WE SAW WHEN RON
JOHNSON ISN'T GETTING SOFTBALLS
FROM FOX NEWS, HE'S STUMBLING,
BUMBLING.
MANDELA BARNES SHOWED BEYOND A
SHADOW OF A DOUBT WHY HE WAS THE
BEST TO TAKE ON RON JOHNSON, HE
WAS CRISP, TAKING ON QUESTIONS
THE PANELISTS OFFERED.
>> HOW ABOUT THE CANDIDATES
THEMSELVES DID AS OPPOSED TO
POTENTIALLY THE QUESTIONS ASKED
IN THE DEBATE.
>> JOHNSON WAS WHO HE WAS, A
COMMON SENSE CONSERVATIVE.
I THOUGHT HE ANSWERED ALL OF THE
QUESTIONS ALONG THE CONSERVATIVE
INE OF THE SPECTRUM AND I
THOUGHT HE DID VERY, VERY WELL.
BARNES, I THINK HE WAS WELL
PREPARED TONIGHT.
THIS WAS PROBABLY HIS BEST
MOMENT IN THE GENERAL ELECTION
SO FAR, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S
GOING TO BE ENOUGH.
>> WE HAVE A NUMBER OF EXCERPTS
AS WE SAID AND WE'LL GET TO
THOSE IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT I
JUST WANTED TO LAY OUT HERE,
BECAUSE WE'VE ALL BEEN BARRAGED
WITH ALL OF THESE ATTACK ADS,
REALLY, AND AMONG THEM ARE THE
GOP DECLARING THAT BARNES IS
DIFFERENT AND DANGEROUS.
AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PARNS
SPO -- AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNORBS
FINAL COMMENT.
THEY'RE NOT SUBTLE IN ANY WAY.
FIRST TO YOU, SCOT, ARE
WISCONSIN VOTERS OKAY WITH THAT
KIND OF MESSAGING?
>> I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE
WE'VE SEEN THE MOST EXPENSIVE
AND MOST RACIST AD CAMPAIGN IN A
U.S. SENATE RACE OR ANY RACE FOR
THAT MATTER IN THE HISTORY OF
THIS GREAT STATE.
UNFORTUNATE THING IS, THEY'RE
TARGETING LOW INFORMATION
VOTERS.
THEY'RE PUTTING MANDELA'S
PICTURE UP THERE, THEY'RE
JUXTAPOSING IT WITH PEOPLE
COMMITTING CRIMES ALLEGEDLY, AND
THEY'RE TRYING TO LINK THE TWO.
BUT SOMEHOW BECAUSE MANDELA IS
BLACK, HE IS GOING TO COMMIT
CRIMES LIKE THESE OTHER BLACK
PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THERE.
I THINK IT'S DESPICABLE AND
DISGRACEFUL.
SENATOR JOHNSON HAS NOT CALLED
INTO QUESTION THAT TACTIC ONCE.
UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S WORKED A
LITTLE BIT.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BARNES'
NUMBERS HAVE GONE DOWN A LITTLE
BIT.
BUT THE FACT IS, THE PEOPLE OF
WISCONSIN ARE SMART PEOPLE,
THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE, AND I THINK
ANY OF THEM WHO WATCH TONIGHT'S
DEBATE KNOW THAT MANDELA BARNES
IS THE RIGHT PERSON TO BE U.S.
SENATOR.
>> BILL, WHAT ABOUT THAT KIND OF
MESSAGING?
>> WELL, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT
RACE MANDELA BARNES IS.
TIM MICHELS IS RUNNING VERY
SIMILAR ADS AGAINST TONY EVERS.
WHY?
THEY'RE A TICKET.
ONE IS GOVERNOR, ONE IS
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.
WHY?
BECAUSE CRIME IS THE NUMBER TWO
ICIAL EU NOT ONLY IN WISCONSIN
BUT IN THE NATION.
CRIME IS ON THE RISE IN OUR BIG
CITIES AND IN OUR SMALLER
CITIES.
PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IT.
THIS IS WHAT SUBURBAN MOMS ARE
WORRIED ABOUT IN THE 2022 CYCLE,
IS CRIME.
AND I THINK IT'S FAIR GAME.
>> YEAH, BUT I THINK -- THE
THING IS, IS THAT MANDELA BARNES
ANSWERED THOSE QUESTIONS BECAUSE
HE CAME OUT AND HE SAID, YOU
KNOW, RON JOHNSON, THERE WAS A
$10 BILLION PLAN TO GIVE IN THE
AMERICAN RECOVERY ACT, TO GIVE
LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES
AND YOU VOTED AGAINST IT.
THERE WAS $19 MILLION THAT CAME
TO WISCONSIN FOR LAW
ENFORCEMENT, YOU VOTED AGAINST
THAT.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN, WHEN IT
COMES TO SUPPORTING US, SENATOR
JOHNSON VOTES AGAINST DEMOCRATIC
PROPOSALS BECAUSE THEY'RE
DEMOCRATIC PROPOSALS, AT THE
SAME TIME SUPPORTING SPENDING
THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR REPUBLICAN
IDEALS THAT HAVE NEARLY
BANKRUPTED THE ECONOMY.
>> I THINK THE REASON THOSE ADS
HAVE BEEN SO EFFECTIVE AGAINST
BARNES, THEY HAVE MOVED THE
NUMBERS AS SCOT HAS POINTED OUT,
THEY USE BARNES' OWN WORDS.
THOSE ARE HARD TO WALK BACK.
THAT'S WHY THE POLL HAS SHIFTED
IN JOHNSON'S FAVOR IN THE COURSE
OF THE LAST SEVEN WEEKS.
>> I'M SORRY, GIVE ME JUST ONE
THING ON THIS.
DURING THE DEBATE, RON JOHNSON
SAID, MANDELA BARNES NEVER SAID
DEFUND THE POLICE.
I MEAN, HE SAID IT.
AND THERE ARE TENS OF MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS OF INDEPENDENT ADS
BEING SPENT BY RON JOHNSON'S
ALLIES PAID FOR BY HIS TWO
BIGGEST DONORS, DIANE HENDRIX
AND THE UIHLEINS WHO HE GOT A
TAX BREAK FOR, BUT RON JOHNSON
SAID THAT MANDELA BARNES DIDN'T
SAY THAT.
IF I'M THE DEMOCRATIC LAWYERS, I
AM ALREADY DRAFTING LETTERS TO
THE TV STATION SAYING HE SAID
IT'S A LIE, THESE ADS NEED TO
COME DOWN.
>> LET'S GO AHEAD AND GO TO A
CLIP FROM THE DEBATE WHERE THEY
WERE TALKING ABOUT CRIME, AND
I'LL BE TOLD WHETHER OR NOT THAT
CLIP IS READY TO PLAY.
BUT I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, CRIME
AND THIS MESSAGE, OBJECTIVELY
CRIME IS BAD IN MILWAUKEE.
>> NO QUESTION.
>> AND THERE'S SOME OTHER CITIES
IN WISCONSIN.
BUT IT'S ALSO KIND OF THE
ANECDOTE TO THE ABORTION ISSUE
IN THE SUBURBS, RIGHT, FOR
FEMALE VOTERS.
BUT WE DO HAVE THIS CLIP READY.
NOW -- OH, APPARENTLY WE DON'T
HAVE THAT CLIP READY.
BUT AS TO THAT QUESTION, YOU
KNOW, POUNDING ON CRIME FOR
SUBURBAN VOTERS.
>> I THINK IT'S BIGGER THAN
THAT.
THIS CYCLE, IT'S CRIME AND IT'S
EDUCATION.
PEOPLE GOT TO SEE A DIFFERENT
SIDE OF THE PUBLIC EDUCATION
SYSTEM DURING COVID.
AND THEY DIDN'T LIKE WHAT THEY
SAW.
AND YOU SEE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE
INVOLVED IN THEIR KIDS'
EDUCATION NOW, WHICH I THINK IS
A GREAT THING OVERALL.
BUT THEY WANT CHANGES, RIGHT?
THEY DON'T WANT CRT IN
CLASSROOMS, THEY WANT ABCs IN
THE CLASSROOMS.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MORE ADS, I
THINK, ABOUT EDUCATION OVER THE
FINAL 30 DAYS OF THIS RACE,
PROBABLY AT THE U.S. SENATE AND
DEFINITELY AT THE GUBERNATORIAL
LEVEL BECAUSE IT'S AN ISSUE THAT
SUBURBAN VOTERS DEFINITELY CARE
ABOUT.
>> LET'S GO TO OUR CLIP WHERE
THEY SPOKE TO CRIME.
>> WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE
SURE THAT COMMUNITIES HAVE THE
RESOURCES THEY NEED TO PREVENT
CRIME FROM HAPPENING IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
THAT MEANS FULLY FUNDING OUR
SCHOOLS.
IT ALSO MEANS MAKING SURE THAT
THERE ARE GOOD PAYING JOBS IN
COMMUNITIES.
AND WE ALSO INVESTED
$100 MILLION IN A LAW
ENFORCEMENT PUBLIC SAFETY AND
CRIME PREVENTION INITIATIVES
THROUGH THE AMERICAN RESCUE
PLAN, WHICH SENATOR JOHNSON
VOTED AGAINST BECAUSE ANOTHER
INSTANCE WHERE HE DECIDED TO
PLAY POLITICS INSTEAD OF PUTTING
THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE OF
WISCONSIN FIRST.
>> THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS
SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT.
UNFORTUNATELY LIEUTENANT
GOVERNOR HAS NOT DONE THAT.
HE HAS A RECORD OF WANTING TO
DEFUND THE POLICE, AND I KNOW HE
DOESN'T NECESSARILY SAY THAT
WORD, BUT HE HAS A LONG HISTORY
OF BEING SUPPORTED BY PEOPLE
THAT ARE LEADING THE EFFORT TO
DEFUND.
HE USES CODE WORDS LIKE CORY
BUSH SAID, TALK ABOUT
REALLOCATE.
OVERBLOATED POLICE BUDGETS.
HE SAYS IT PAINS HIM TO SEE
FULLY FUNDED POLICE BUDGETS.
SO THAT'S HIS VIEWS.
>> SO HE SP YOU SPOKE TO SOME OT
EARLIER, BUT BILL, YOUR REACTION
TO THAT INTERCHANGE?
>> YEAH, WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT
$100 MILLION THAT WENT TO THE
CITY OF MILWAUKEE?úCRIME IS STI,
RIGHT?
WHERE IS THE FULL ACCOUNTING OF
WHERE THAT MONEY WENT?
WHAT HAS THAT DONE TO REDUCE
CRIME IN MILWAUKEE?
AND WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT FULLY
FUNDING EDUCATION, WHAT DOES HE
MEAN BY THAT?
WE'VE GIVEN MORE MONEY TO
EDUCATION EVERY CYCLE OVER THE
LAST 12 YEARS, AND OUR TEST
SCORES KEEP GOING DOWN AND DOWN
AND DOWN.
WE HAD NEW TEST SCORES OUT A
WEEK AGO AND THE CITY OF
MILWAUKEE, FRED, FOR MY IN ORDER
STUDENTS, ONLY 10%, 10% ARE
PROFICIENT IN READING AND MATH.
THAT'S A CATASTROPHE FOR OUR
SOCIETY.
THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE
FOCUSING ON.
>> I UNDERSTAND WANTING TO MOVE
THE DISCUSSION, BUT YOU KNOW,
THE FACT IS, IS THAT RON JOHNSON
IS THE ONE WITH THE CAREER OF
OPPOSING FUNDS FOR LAW
ENFORCEMENT.
IN 2011, RON JOHNSON VOTED
AGAINST A BILL THAT PROVIDED
$35 BILLION FOR COPS, FOR
FIREFIGHTERS AND FOR TEACHERS.
HE VOTED AGAINST IT.
SO HOW CAN HE -- HOW CAN HE SAY
THAT HE'S GOT THE SOLUTIONS FOR
THINGS?
HIS SOLUTIONS ARE SOME SORT OF
CONVOLUTED MELANGE OF RIGHT WING
TALKING POINTS RATHER THAN REAL
SOLUTIONS.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE
DIFFERENCE WAS TONIGHT.
MANDELA BARNES LAID OUT PLANS IN
ORDER TO MOVE THIS COUNTRY
FORWARD.
>> I DON'T KNOW ENDORSEMENTS ARE
THE BIGGEST THINGS IN CAMPAIGNS
BUT AS IT RELATES TO CRIME, IT
IS A BIG DEAL.
WHO ARE THE COPS AND SHERIFFS
WITH?
THEY'RE WITH RON JOHNSON.
I THINK THAT SAYS A LOT.
>> AS TO THOSE ENDORSEMENTS,
THAT WAS AN ERROR ON THE BARNES
CAMPAIGN, RIGHT, THE POLICE
ENDORSEMENTS HE HAD BUT THEN HAD
TO WALK THOSE BACK?
>> YES, YES --
>> IN HIS CAMPAIGN, ABOUT HOW
THE FUTURE OF THE NATION IS
GOING TO DO AND A POSSIBLE END
TO DEMOCRACY, TWO COPS
INCORRECTLY PUT ON A WEBSITE,
YEAH, I -- YES, I THINK HE CAN
OWN THAT.
>> THERE'S 13,000 STATEWIDE.
HE HAD 9.
TWO HAD TO WITHDRAW.
>> SPEAKING OF DEMOCRACY, LET'S
TAKE A LISTEN TO THE EXCHANGE
THAT THEY WILL ABOUT -- THE
QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE ELECTORAL
COUNT REFORM ACT, IT MORPHED
FROM THERE.
>> WE ALL SAW WHAT HAPPENED ON
JANUARY 6.
WE ALSO SAW EVERY CONSPIRACY
THEORY PEDALED, WE SAW A SENATOR
ATTEMPT TO SEND FAKE ELECTORS TO
THE VICE PRESIDENT, SAYING HIS
INVOLVEMENT LASTED A MATTER
OF SECONDS.
THAT MATTER OF SECONDS ENDED UP
WITH A WHOLE DAY ASSAULT ON THE
CAPITOL.
>> LET ME CLEAR THINGS UP HERE.
I HAD NO IDEA WHEN I GOT A CALL
FROM THE LAWYER, FROM THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
TO DELIVER SOMETHING TO THE VICE
PRESIDENT, THAT I HAD A STAFF
MEMBER THAT COULD HELP OUT WITH
THAT, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER WAS,
NOTHING WAS DELIVERED.
THE WHOLE EPISODE TOOK LIST THAN
AN HOUR AND I WASN'T EVEN
INVOLVED.
>> I'M GOING TO GO TO YOU FIRST,
SCOT, ON THAT.
>> I THINK, AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT CRIME.
SENATOR RON JOHNSON HELPED, YOU
KNOW, HELPED AND PARTICIPATED
WITH SUPPORT FOR THE GREATEST
CRIME AGAINST AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
EVER COMMITTED IN OUR 246-YEAR
HISTORY.
THAT'S THE GOOD THING THAT
MANDELA -- BOTH THINGS WITH
CRIME.
HE SAID LISTEN, WHO DO YOU THINK
HAS MORE EXPERIENCE WITH CRIME?
SOME GUY WHO LIVES -- SOME RICH
GUY WHO LIVES IN A GATED
COMMUNITY AND HAS A $3 MILLION
GUEST HOME IN FLORIDA, WHO FLIES
A PRIVATE PLANE, OR A GUY WHO
LIVES IN MILWAUKEE WHO HAS HAD
FRIENDS AND FAMILY WHO HAVE BEEN
THE VICTIMS OF CRIME.
>> WHATEVER PEOPLE THINK ABOUT
JANUARY 6TH, WHETHER THEY THINK
MINIMIZE IT OR MAXIMIZE IT, I
THINK THAT'S BAKED IN.
I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO
CHAWNG A VOTE BETWEEN NOW AND
NOVEMBER 8TH, BUT I WILL SAY I
THINK THEY BOTH GOT THIS RIGHT,
ON BOTH PIECES OF IT.
THE ELECTORAL COU COUNTERACT, TK
THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER
WHO WINS THE SENATE IN 33 DAYS.
AND THEY BOTH SAID THAT PENCE
DID THE RIGHT THING.
NOT EVERY REPUBLICAN AGREES WITH
US ON THAT, BUT I THINK BOTH
JOHNSON AND BARNES GOT BOTH
SIDES OF THAT QUESTION RIGHT.
>> SO YOU SAY IT'S BAKED IN, BUT
WHAT DO YOU THINK VOTERS THINK
WHEN THEY HEAR SENATOR JOHNSON
TALKING ABOUT HIS INVOLVEMENT IN
THAT ENTIRE THING?
>> I THINK THEY SEE JOHNSON AS A
FIGHTER, RIGHT?
AND HE PUSHES BACK.
WHEN HE GETS TOUGH QUESTIONS OR
HE GETS THINGS THAT ARE WORDED
THAT AREN'T QUITE RIGHT, HE
PUSHES BACK.
AND I THINK PEOPLE LIKE THAT
ABOUT HIM.
THEY MAY NOT AGREE WITH
EVERYTHING THAT HE SAYS, BUT I
THINK AS IT RELATES TO
JANUARY 6TH, PEOPLE HAVE
FACTORED THAT IN TO HOW THEY'RE
GOING TO MAKE A DECISION IN
33 DAYS AND THAT'S NOT ONE OF
THE DECIDING FACTORS FOR THE
UNDECIDEDS.
FOR YO UNDECIDEDS, THEY'RE FOR
INFLATION, CRIME --
>> I THINK I AGREE WITH BILL IN
TERMS OF SENATOR JOHNSON DOES
HAVE A BRAND, THE WAY IN WHICH
HE TALKS BUT I DON'T THINK HE
CAN WALK AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT
140 COPS WERE INJURED, YOU KNOW,
AND MANDELA, OR LIEUTENANT
GOVERNOR BARNES WENT AFTER THE
FACT THAT YOU LEFT THOSE PEOPLE
HIGH AND DRY.
AND THE FACT IS, IS THAT, YEAH,
WILL IT CHANGE A VOTER?
I DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT.
BUT IS IT BETTER TO BE REMINDED
ABOUT THE TRUMP-LED INSURRECTION
FOR DEMOCRATS?
I THINK SO.
I THINK IT ENERGIZES DEMOCRATS.
>> FIGURE OUT HOW TO BUY THE
GROCERIES ON A FRIDAY AND FILL
YOUR GAS TANK, YOU'RE NOT
THINKING ABOUT JANUARY 6TH.
>> THE OTHER MAJOR ISSUE THAT
CAME UP, OF COURSE, IN THIS
DEBATE AS WE WOULD EXPECT IS THE
ISSUE OF ABORTION.
LET'S GO AHEAD AND TAKE A LISTEN
TO THAT.
>> NOW, THE SENATOR CALLED THE
OVERTURNING OF ROE VERSUS WADE A
VICTORY.
HE CELEBRATED THE DOBBS DECISION
AND HE SAID IF WOMEN DON'T LIKE
THE LAWS OF THEIR STATE, LIKE
THE 1849 CRIMINAL ABORTION BAN
WE HAVE HERE, HE SAID THEY CAN
MOVE.
I CAN'T THINK OF A MORE CALLUS,
OUT OF TOUCH OR EXTREME POSITION
TO TAKE.
IF I WAS IN THE U.S. SENATE, I
WOULD ABSOLUTELY VOTE TO CODIFY
ROE VERSUS WADE TO PROTECT THE
RIGHT TO AN ABORTION AND ONCE
AND FOR ALL TO PROTECT WOMEN'S
RIGHTS.
>> WHAT I'VE RECOMMENDED IS LET
WE THE PEOPLE DECIDE WITH A
ONE-TIME SINGLE ISSUE REFERENDUM
THAT ASKED THE DECISION WE NEED
TO COME TO DEA IT A DECISION ONH
IS AT WHAT POINT DOES SOCIETY
HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO
PROTECT LIFE IN THE WOMB?
WE ALL AGREE SOCIETY HAS
REPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT LIFE
BUT AT WHAT POINT DOES SOCIETY
HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO
PROTECT LIFE IN THE WOMB?
I WOULD HAVE ONE VOTE LIKE EVERY
OTHER WISCONSIN CITIZEN.
>> HE WANTS THIS REFERENDUM,
RIGHT, IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN, WHICH AT THIS MOMENT
IS NOT POSSIBLE TO TAKE THIS
DIRECT REFERENDUM TO THE PEOPLE
ON THIS MATTER.
WHAT IS HE DOING?
>> I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ON
THIS ONE.
SO I THINK WE WILL HAVE A
REFERENDUM IN 33 DAYS.
ON NOVEMBER 8TH, THE PEOPLE WILL
GET TO DECIDE WHO THEIR STATE
LEGISLATURE AND THEIR GOVERNOR
IS.
WHEN ROE WAS OVERTURNED THIS
WENT FROM A FEDERAL ISSUE TO A
STATE ISSUE, SO I THINK IT
SHOULD BE UP TO THE STATE
LEGISLATURE.
WHEN JOHNSON SAID IT WAS A
VICTORY, WHAT HE MEANT WAS IT'S
A VICTORY FOR STATES' RIGHTS.
I AGREE WITH HIM ON THAT. I
THINK HE HANDLED THIS QUESTION
PRETTY WELL AND I THINK HE'S
TRYING TO SHOW PEOPLE HE'S OPEN
MINDED ON THE ABORTION QUESTION.
>> IS HE?
>> I THINK HE IS.
HE'S GOT EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE,
INCEST AND THE LIFE OF THE
MOTHER.
THERE'S TWO WAYS TO MEASURE
THIS.
ONE IS POLLING AND IT'S NOT A
TOP ISSUE ON ANY NATIONAL POLL
FOR INDEPENDENT VOTERS, BUT
GOOGLE SEARCHES.
RIGHT AFTER THE ROE DECISION,
GOOGLE SEARCHES, ABORTION WAS
NUMBER ONE.
NOW IT WAY DOWN THE LIST AND
INFLAINNATION IS NUMBER ONE.
>> THE FACT IS FOR RON JOHNSON
HAS SPONSORED LEGISLATION THAT
WILL HAVE NO EXCEPTION FOR RAPE
AND INCEST.
63% OF WISCONSINITES SUPPORT ROE
VERSUS WADE I'M SORRY THEY
OPPOSE THE OVERTURNING OF ROE
VERSUS WADE AND 83% WANT THOSE
EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE AND INCEST,
SOMETHING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
ARE ALL RUNNING AGAINST.
THEY DO NOT WANT EXCEPTIONS,
IT'S VERY CLEAR.
>> IT'S A TOUGH ISSUE FOR
REPUBLICANS.
>> IT IS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S
GOING TO BE DECISIVE THIS YEAR.
IF THE ECONOMY WAS IN WORSE
SHAPE, FRED, IT MAY BE A
DECIDING ISSUE, BUT WITH THE
ECONOMY IN THE SITUATION IT IS
RIGHT NOW WITH CRIME ON THE
RISE, WITH PUBLIC SCHOOLS ON THE
DECLINE, IT'S JUST NOT MAKING
THE CUT.
>> ISN'T THAT JUST A PIVOT?
>> RON JOHNSON WANTS TO INCREASE
CRIME BY PUTTING WOMEN AND
DOCTORS BEHIND BARS.
I MEAN, THERE YOU GO, THAT'S
WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, HE WANTS TO
CRIMINALIZE HEALTHCARE DECISIONS
BETWEEN WOMEN AND THEIR DOCTORS.
IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
WITH NO EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE AND
INCEST.
>> WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ALONG TO
ANOTHER TOPIC OF GREAT INTEREST,
AND THAT IS SOCIAL SECURITY.
WE CAN GO AHEAD AND LISTEN TO
THAT EXAIK.
EXCHANGE.
>> I WANT TO SAVE SOCIAL
SECURITY, I WANT TO SAVE
MEDICARE.
THE GREATEST THREAT TO SOCIAL
SECURITY AND MEDICARE IS THE
COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL
DEFICIT SPENDING IN OUR GROWING
DEBT.
WE'VE ADDED $7.5 TRILLION OF NEW
DEFICITS OVER JUST THE LAST
THREE YEARS.
THAT THE GRAITEST T THE GREATES.
DO YOU REALIZE THE DOLLAR YOU
HELD AT THE START OF THE BIDEN
ADMINISTRATION IS ONLY WORTH
88.3 CENTS.
>> NOW IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT
SENATOR JOHNSON SAID THAT SOCIAL
SECURITY IS A PONZI SCHEME.
THERE WAS EVEN AN INSTANCE WHERE
HE CALLED SOCIAL SECURITY CANDY.
THIS IS KEEPING PEOPLE WHO HAVE
WORKED THEIR ENTIRE LIVES
AFLOAT, AND THE THREAT TO TAKE
THAT AWAY FROM THEM DOES NOT SIT
WELL WITH ME, ALONG WITH MOST
OTHER PEOPLE.
NOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS NOT
JUST MAKE SOCIAL SECURITY
SOLVENT.
WE SHOULD STRENGTHEN SOCIAL
SECURITY.
WE CAN DO THAT BY MAKING SURE
THE WEALTHY PAY THEIR FAIR
SHARE.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT
BILLIONAIRES ARE PAYING MORE
INTO THIS SYSTEM.
>> I'M GOING TO GO TO YOU FIRST,
SCOT, ON THIS.
>> I THINK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR
BARNES SAID IT BEST.
RON JOHNSON CALLED SOCIAL
SECURITY A PONZI SCHEME, HE
CALLED IT CANDY, HE HAS DONE
EVERYTHING HE CAN TO PUT IT ON
THE CHOPPING BLOCK.
HE WILL PUT IT ON THE CHOPPING
BLOCK IF HE'S RE-ELECTED AND
REPUBLICANS ARE IN CONTROL OF
THE CONGRESS.
>> HE SAYS THAT HE WANTS TO SAVE
IT.
>> YEAH, THOSE WERE HIS WORDS,
AND I THINK IT WAS A GOOD
OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO TELL A
STATE-WIDE AUDIENCE, THIS IS MY
POSITION ON THIS ISSUE.
HE WAS PRETTY CLEAR ABOUT IT.
HE WANTS TO MAKE IT -- HE WANTS
TO BRING IT AS PART OF THE FULL
BUDGET DISCUSSION TO MAKE SURE
IT CAN BE PROTECTED.
RIGHT NOW IT'S OFTEN
ENTITLEMENTS, 70% OF THE BUDGETS
IS OFF LIMITS TO THE ENTIRE
CONDITIONING.
+>CONGRESS.
>> IT IS SCARY FOR PEOPLE TO
HEAR THAT.
>> THERE'S NO CHANCE RON JOHNSON
IS GOING TO DO AWAY WITH SOCIAL
SECURITY AND MEDICARE.
NO CHANCE.
>> IF YOU TOOK AWAY SOCIAL
SECURITY AND MEDICARE, THERE
WOULD BE NO HOSPITALS IN RURAL
WISCONSIN, NO TAVERNS IN RURAL
WISCONSIN, NO RESTAURANTS IN
RURAL WISCONSIN, THERE WOULD BE
NO SHOPPING CENTERS IN RURAL
WISCONSIN, THERE WOULD BE NO
ECONOMY.
THE RURAL ECONOMY IS INFLUENCED
SO HARD BY SOCIAL SECURITY, NOT
TO MENTION THAT PEOPLE WOULD
SUFFER, IF RON JOHNSON GETS HIS
WAY AND TAKES AWAY SOCIAL
SECURITY.
>> SO WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE
LEFT, AND I WANT TO JUST ASK YOU
BOTH YOUR OVERRIDING SENSE OF
THIS APPEARANCE BY THESE
CANDIDATES IN THIS REALLY VERY
IMPORTANT ELECTION.
>> I THINK THE ENVIRONMENTAL
FACTORS ARE IN JOHNSON'S FAVOR,
RIGHT?
HE'S IN THE LEAD RIGHT NOW ON
FOUR OF THE LAST FOUR POLLS,
THERE WILL BE A NEW MARQUETTE
POLL OUT LAST WEEK.
THE ENVIRONMENT WORKS TO HIS
ADVANTAGE BECAUSE THE WHITE
HOUSE GENERALLY LOSES SEATS WHEN
THEY'RE IN POWER, RIGHT?
WHO'S EVER IN CHARGE OF THE
WHITE HOUSE.
IF THE PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL IS
ABOVE 50%, THEY GENERALLY LOSE
ABOUT 7.
IF IT'S BELOW 50, THEY LOSE
ABOUT 37.
SO THE TRAJECTORY FOR THE NEXT
33 DAYS IS IN JOHNSON'S FAVOR,
AND I THINK HE'S IN GOOD SHAPE.
>> ANYONE WHO WATCHED TONIGHT'S
DEBATE SAW THE FUTURE OF THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN IS MANDELA
BARNES' LEADERSHIP.
HE WAS ARTICULATE, HE WAS WELL
SPOKEN, HE WAS CRISP, HE WAS
CLEAR, HE WAS DEFINITIVE AND HE
WAS ON THE SIDE OF THE PEOPLE OF
WISCONSIN.
RON JOHNSON WASN'T.
HE WAS STUMBLING AND BUMBLING.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE WITH YOU
BOTH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US AND FOR YOUR INSIGHT.
SO TURNING NOW TO FIELD
REPORTING THAT WE HAVE BEEN
BRINGING YOU EVERY WEEK, WE ARE
JUST FOUR WEEKS OUT FROM THE
2022 ELECTIONS, AND YET THE 2020
ELECTION STILL CASTS A LONG
SHADOW OVER THE STATE.
MANY REPUBLICANS ARE STILL
TALKING ABOUT VOTER FRAUD,
LEAVING DEMOCRATS TO WORRY THAT
SWEEPING ELECTION LAW CHANGES
FROM THE GOP WOULD SERVE TO
DISENFRANCHISE WISCONSIN VOTERS.
MORE ON THIS FROM SENIOR
POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ.
>> WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN TWB
W2020.
>> POWERFUL AND RICH FORCES ARE
ALIGNED AGAINST ME.
>> WAS IT RIGGED, WAS IT FIXED?
>> PEOPLE HAVE DEBUNKED DONALD
TRUMP'S CONSPIRACY THEORIES FOR
NEARLY TWO YEARS.
RACHEL RODRIQUEZ HAS HEARD THEM
ALL.
>> EVERY TIME YOU THINK YOU'VE
PUT ONE CONSPIRACY THEORY TO
BED, ONE POPS UP IN ITS PLACE.
>> SHE KNOWS EVERY STEP IN THE
PROCESS.
SO WHEN REPUBLICANS IN THE
LEGISLATURE STARTED HOLDING
INVITATION-ONLY HEARINGS TO GIVE
AN OFFICIAL PLATFORM TO ELECTION
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS, SHE
FOLLOWED THEM CLOSELY.
>> IT WAS READILY APPARENT, YOU
KNOW, THAT WITHIN MINUTES, THAT
THE EXPERTS HAD ABSOLUTELY NO
EXPERTISE IN ACTUAL ELECTIONS.
>> RODRIQUEZ STARTED FACT
CHECKING THE HEARINGS OVER
TWITTER.
SOON, SHE WAS BEING RETWEETED BY
THE CHAIR OF THE WISCONSIN
ELECTIONS COMMISSION.
AND GAINED AN AUDIENCE LOOKING
FOR THE TRUTH.
>> I THINK PEOPLE WERE REALLY
LOOKING FOR SORT OF A, YOU KNOW,
THAT OTHER SIDE OF IT, THE
ACTUAL EXPERT SIDE BECAUSE THAT
WASN'T HAPPENING AT THE
HEARINGS.
>> REPUBLICANS HIRED FORMER
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE MICHAEL
GABELMAN TO LEAD AN
INVESTIGATION ON THE 2020
ELECTION.
>> I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY --
>> BUT WHAT HE PRODUCED WAS OPEN
RECORDS VIOLATIONS, A CONTEMPT
OF COURT ORDER AND A MILLION
DOLLAR BILL FOR TAXPAYERS.
>> MICHAEL GABELMAN IS AN
EMBARRASSMENT TO THE STATE.
>> GABLEMAN WAS FIRED AFTER
ENDORSING THE PRIMARY OPPONENT
OF ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS,
THE MAN WHO HIRED HIM.
RODRIQUEZ SAYS THE CUMULATIVE
EFFECT WAS THE TRUTH AROUND
ELECTION CONSPIRACIES STARTED TO
LOOK LIKE PARTISAN POLITICS.
>> WHERE THE PROBLEM IS RIGHT
NOW IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE ONE
PARTY, AND IT IS ONE PARTY WHO
IS DRIVING ALL OF THIS
MISINFORMATION AND ALL OF THE
CON SPEAR S AND ALL OF THE
DOUBT, WHEN YOU TAKE THE SIDE OF
ACTUAL FACTS AND TRUTH, WHICH IS
OPPOSITE TO THAT, IT'S GOING TO
LOOK LIKE IT'S ONE PARTY OVER
THE OTHER.
>> I'M GOING TO GET RID OF THE
WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION.
>> TIM MICHELS IS THE REPUBLICAN
CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR.
AND WHILE HE DOESN'T OUTRIGHT
SAY THE 2020 ELECTION WAS
STOLEN, HE DOES CAMPAIGN WITH
THOSE THAT DO.
AND EVEN SALUTED REPUBLICAN TIM
RAMTHUN, A FULL-ON ELECTION CON
SPEAR CYST WHO WANTED TO SOMEHOW
RECLAIM WISCONSIN'S 2020
ELECTORAL VOTES.
>> I SEE MY FRIEND OUT HERE RAN
A SPIRITED PRIMARY, TIM RAMTHUN,
WAS VERY BIG ON ELECTION
INTEGRITY AS WELL.
>> AT ONE EVENT, MICHELS TOLD A
SUPPORTER IN ORDER TO WIN, HE
HAD TO OVERCOME A CHEATING
PERCENTAGE.
>> WHAT'S THE CHEATING
PERCENTAGE?
PROBABLY A POINT OR TWO, WE'RE
GOING TO COME OUT --
>> TIM MICHELS DID NOT AGREE TO
AN INTERVIEW FOR THIS STORY.
>> FOR PEOPLE TO CONTINUE
HARBORING THAT BIG LIE, THAT'S
NOT GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.
IT'S NOT GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY AT
ALL.
SENATE BILL 292.
NOT APPROVED.
>> DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TONY
EVERS VETOED A SERIES OF
REPUBLICAN BILLS THAT WOULD HAVE
CHANGED HOW ELECTIONS ARE RUN IN
WISCONSIN.
>> THERE WE GO, FOLKS.
[APPLAUSE]
>> MICHELS HAS SAID HE WOULD
SIGN THOSE BILLS, AND DEMOCRATS
FEAR AS GOVERNOR, MICHELS COULD
OVERTURN WISCONSIN'S
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORAL VOTES IN
2024.
>> IF THEY ARE IN POWER AND
TRUMP COMES CALLING, ASKING THEM
TO CHANGE AN ELECTION RESULT,
WE'VE SEEN THAT THEY'RE WILLING
TO DO ANYTHING TO GET TRUMP'S
APPROVAL.
>> BEN WIKLER IS CHAIR OF THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF WISCONSIN.
>> THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS MOMENT
IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY
AND IT'S HARD TO THINK OF WORDS
THAT WOULD BE TOO STRONG TO
EXPRESS THE STAKES IN THIS
FALL'S ELECTION.
>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT
IT, ELECTION INTEGRITY HAS BEEN
A GREAT TOPIC FOR EVERYBODY TO
GET SOME FODDER BOTH WAYS.
>> PAUL FARROW IS THE CHAIRMAN
OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF
WISCONSIN.
>> WHEN I LOOK BACK AT THE 2020
ELECTION, THERE WERE SOME
CHALLENGES.
WE KNOW THERE WERE ISSUES THAT
ARE THERE THAT WE HAVE TO FIGURE
OUT HOW TO REGULATE AND HOW TO
MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN
AGAIN.
>> HOW CAN YOU LEAD THE STATE IF
YOU'RE AFRAID TO TELL THE BASE
OF OUR PARTY THE TRUTH?
>> ROHN BISHOP IS THE FORMER
CHAIR OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF
FOND DU LAC COUNTY.
AND HE'S CONCERNED THE GOP'S
OBSESSION WITH 2020 WILL HURT
THEM THIS FALL.
>> REPUBLICANS SHOULD BE LOOKING
AT A TIDAL WAVE ELECTION.
ONE WAY TO SCREW IT UP IS TO
KEEP FOCUSING ON 2020, AND WE
KEEP DOING THAT.
WE JUST CAN'T TURN THE PAGE AND
FOCUS ON 2022.
>> BISHOP WAS ATTACKED BY HIS
OWN PARTY MEMBERS FOR POINTING
OUT TRUMP LOST IN WISCONSIN.
BECAUSE ENOUGH REPUBLICANS
VOTED, BUT NOT FOR TRUMP.
>> THE ELECTION IS NOT STOLEN
WHEN GLENN GROTHMAN IS GETTING
MORE VOTES THAN DONALD TRUMP IN
THE SIXTH CONGRESSIONAL
DISTRICT.
THERE WAS JUST A FALL-OFF.
THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO
VOTE FOR REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE
PRINCIPLES BUT NOT TRUMP.
>> BISHOP SAYS WHEN MICHELS
CAMPAIGNS WITH MICHAEL GABELMAN
AND TRUMP, HE RISKS ALIENATING
THOSE SAME VOTERS.
>> COMING INTO 2022, TIM MICHELS
HAS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET
THOSE 50,000 REPUBLICANS WHO
VOTED REPUBLICAN BUT NOT FOR
DONALD TRUMP.
>> SINCE THE LAST ELECTION,
BISHOP LEFT PARTY POLITICS AND
WAS ELECTED MAYOR OF WAUPUN, A
NON-PARTISAN OFFICE.
>> I JUST REALLY WANT TO FOCUS
ON THIS JOB AND GIVE IT ALL THAT
I HAVE.
>> HE'S STILL A REPUBLICAN, BUT
HE WORRIES OTHERS MIGHT HAVE
LEFT THE PARTY FOR GOOD.
>> BECAUSE OF THE HYPERPARTISAN
NATURE OF IT NEGATIVITY, WE'RE
BUSY ALWAYS TRYING TO KICK
PEOPLE UP.
I'VE BEEN CALLED THAT BY PEOPLE,
BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK THE
ELECTION WAS STOLEN.
WELL, IF YOU KICK ME OUT, AND I
DON'T VOTE FOR YOU, YOU'RE IN A
LOT OF TROUBLE.
>> SO WHAT IMPACT WILL THESE
CONSPIRACY THEORIES HAVE ON THIS
ELECTION?
FOR ONE, THERE WILL BE A LOT
MORE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM WHEN YOU
CAST YOUR BALLOT.
PAUL FARROW SAYS IN 2020,
REPUBLICANS HAD ABOUT 1300
ELECTION OBSERVERS AT THE POLLS
STATEWIDE.
>> WE ARE WELL OVER 5,000 THIS
TIME AROUND.
WE'VE GOT A LOT MORE EYES THAT
ARE WATCHING THE PROCESS.
TO START THE OTHER ONES UP.GOIN-
>> PEOPLE LIKE CHRISTOPHER
BOSSERT, A REPUBLICAN FROM WEST
BEND.
>> I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT
ELECTION INTEGRITY, AND THE BEST
WAY TO RESOLVE THOSE CONCERNS
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER IS TO GET
INVOLVED.
SO I CHOSE TO VOLUNTEER FOR THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY AS A POLL
WORKER.
>> BOSSERT SAYS HE STILL HAS
CONCERNS ABOUT VOTER FRAUD
ELSEWHERE IN WISCONSIN, BUT IS
NO LONGER WORRIED ABOUT THE
DOMINION VOTING MACHINES USED IN
HIS HOMETOWN.
EVEN IF HIS NEIGHBORS ARE
CONVINCED.
>> I HAVE CONSTITUENTS WHO
BELIEVE DOMINION IS A PROBLEM,
AND EVEN THOUGH I'VE TOLD THEM
FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, DOMINION IS
NOT A PROBLEM, THEY STILL
BELIEVE IT.
>> REPORTING FROM MADISON, I'M
ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE AND NOW."
>> FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.ORG
AND THEN CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.
AND TO LEARN ABOUT ALL THE
CANDIDATES IN NOVEMBER, VISIT
WISCONSINVOTE.ORG.
JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK AT
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DEBATE FOLLOWED BY OUR LIVE
"HERE AND NOW" ANALYSIS.
IT'S ALL RIGHT HERE ON PBS
WISCONSIN.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
?
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