JOSH KAUL, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> THE RESULTS OF A
CONTROVERSIAL FREE SPEECH SURVEY
ADMINISTERED TO STUDENTS
THROUGHOUT THE UW SYSTEM FOUND
IN SOME INSTANCES, CONSERVATIVE
STUDENTS NOT FEELING COMFORTABLE
TO EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS IN THE
CLASSROOM BEFORE AND ESPECIALLY
AFTER THE FEBRUARY RELEASE OF
THOSE SURVEY RESULTS,
REPUBLICANS HAVE EXPRESSED
CONCERNS THAT STUDENTS WITH
CONSERVATIVE VIEWS ARE SHUT OUT
ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES OR, IN MORE
EXTREME LANGUAGE, ARE BEING
INDOCTRINATED BY PROFESSORS.
FREDERICA FREYBERG SPOKE WITH UW
MADISON POLITICAL SCIENCE
PROFESSOR KATHERINE CRAMER WHO
TOOK ISSUE WITH STUDENT
INDOCTRINATION IN AN ESSAY SHE
WROTE ON FREE SPEECH IN THE
CLASSROOM.
>> IT JUST DOES NOT AT ALL MATCH
MY REALITY.
THE DISCUSSION AROUND WHETHER OR
NOT INDOCTRINATION IS GOING ON
ON THE UW MADISON CAMPUS IS JUST
SO FAR REMOVED FROM MY DAILY
LIFE AND I, YOU KNOW, AS A
PERSON WHO HAS GROWN UP IN THIS
STATE AND WORKED AT THIS
INSTITUTION AT UW MADISON
BASICALLY MY ENTIRE CAREER, I'VE
BEEN FORTUNATE TO HAVE THIS JOB
SINCE I FINISHED MY
DISSERTATION, I MEAN, I JUST --
I WORRY A LOT ABOUT THE
CRITICISM OF THIS PLACE BECAUSE
I KNOW THAT IT'S THE UW MADISON,
UW SYSTEM IS SO BELOVED BY
PEOPLE OF THIS STATE AND MY
EXPERIENCE WITH STUDENTS ON THIS
CAMPUS IS JUST -- IT'S JUST VERY
DIFFERENT FROM THE DEBATE THAT'S
GOING ON AROUND INDOCTRINATION.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE FREE SPEECH
SURVEY UNDERTAKEN BY THE UW
SYSTEM THAT REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATORS THEMSELVES CALL
TROUBLING, WHERE IT FOUND THAT
60% OF REPUBLICAN STUDENTS FEEL,
QUOTE, PRESSURED BY AN
INSTRUCTOR TO AGREE WITH
SPECIFIC POLITICAL VIEWS BEING
EXPRESSED IN CLASS.
WHAT ABOUT THAT SURVEY?
>> IT'S BEEN MY LIFE'S WORK TO
CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT IN MY
CLASSROOM IN WHICH STUDENTS OF
ALL POLITICAL LEANINGS HAVE THE
SPACE TO THINK AND TALK WITH
EACH OTHER AND QUESTION EACH
OTHER AND GRADUATE FROM THAT
CLASS WITH A MORE PROFOUND SENSE
OF WHO THEY ARE AS A CITIZEN.
SO THAT'S ONE THING THAT THE
JUST REALLY -- THAT JUST REALLY
DISTURBED ME ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE
IT JUST RUNS AGAINST THE GRAIN
OF WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO
FOR DECADES IN MY OWN LIFE.
AND THERE'S ANOTHER THING THAT
REALLY TROUBLES ME ABOUT THAT
SURVEY, IS THAT IT REALLY DOES
NOT COMPORT WELL OR MATCH WELL
WITH THE RESULTS OF OUR OWN UW
CAMPUS CLIMATE SURVEY, WHICH WAS
CONDUCTED IN 2021.
THEY HAD A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT
MEASURES OF WHO FELT WELCOME ON
CAMPUS, ABOUT 20, IF I REMEMBER
RIGHT, AND ACCORDING TO NONE OF
THOSE MEASURES DO SELF-DESCRIBED
CONSERVATIVE STUDENTS SAY THEY
DON'T FEEL WELCOMED.
AND YET THERE WAS A QUESTION ON
THAT SURVEY ASKING WHO DO YOU
THINK DOESN'T FEEL WELCOME ON
OUR CAMPUS?
AND MANY, MANY PEOPLE SAID
CONSERVATIVE STUDENTS.
SO THERE'S THIS PERSPECTIVE THAT
CONSERVATIVE STUDENTS ARE
SILENCED ON OUR CAMPUS, BUT
CONSERVATIVE STUDENTS THEMSELVES
DO NOT REPORT FEELING SILENCED.
SO I'M WORRIED THERE'S A BIG
MISMATCH IN MY MIND BETWEEN THE
RESULTS OF THE FREE SPEECH
SURVEY AND OUR OWN CAMPUS
CLIMATE SURVEY.
>> YOU DESCRIBED HOW STUDENTS
FELT TALKING ABOUT POLITICS AT
THE START OF YOUR CLASS IN THE
MIDST OF THIS POLARIZED CLIMATE.
WHAT IS THAT LIKE WHEN THEY
FIRST STEP INTO THAT CLASS?
>> SO ESPECIALLY WHEN I WAS -- I
ASSIGNED TO THEM PORTIONS OF A
BOOK I PUBLISHED IN 2016 ABOUT
OUR OWN RURAL URBAN DIVIDE HERE
IN WISCONSIN.
MANY OF THE STUDENTS, MOST OF
THEM ARE FROM AN URBAN OR
SUBURBAN AREA, WOULD SAY THINGS
LIKE, OH, I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT
PERSPECTIVE, OR I'VE ALWAYS
WONDERED WHY, WHY DID PEOPLE IN
RURAL AREAS OF THE COUNTRY VOTE
FOR DONALD TRUMP, BECAUSE IT
SEEMS TO ME LIKE HE'S A
CANDIDATE THAT WASN'T GOING TO
HELP THEM OR HE WOULD BE NOT
SUPPORTING THE KIND OF POLICIES
THAT INK WOULD BENEFIT I THINK
WOULD BENEFIT PEOPLE LIKE THEM.
I'M TRYING TO GET THEM TO
UNDERSTAND MORE DEEPLY THEIR OWN
VIEWS AND TO JUST BASICALLY SEE
PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT POLITICAL
VIEWS AS HUMAN BEINGS, AS
EQUALLY AS HUMAN AND EQUALLY AS
DIGNIFIED AND WORTHY OF RESPECT
AS THEY THEMSELVES ARE.
>> SO THE OTHER THING THAT YOU
TOUCHED ON IN THIS CLASS WAS
RACE, AND WHAT WAS YOUR
TAKE-AWAY FROM THAT?
>> I PLAY SOME EXCERPTS FOR
THESE STUDENTS OF CONVERSATIONS
THAT STUDENTS OF COLOR AND I
ORGANIZED ON OUR CAMPUS A FEW
YEARS AGO AND I PLAYED SOME OF
THE EXCERPTS OF THOSE
CONVERSATIONS FOR THE BROADER
CLASS, WHICH IS PREDOMINANTLY
WHITE, AND THE STUDENTS ARE
SHOCKED TO HEAR SOME OF THESE
STORIES OF STUDENTS JUST TALKING
ABOUT THE DISCRIMINATION THEY
FACED JUST IN EVERYDAY LIFE ON
CAMPUS.
NOT VIOLENT, BUT SORT OF JUST
THE COMMON EXPERIENCE OF IT AND
IT'S INVISIBLE TO A LOT OF THESE
STUDENTS WHO DON'T EXPERIENCE
THAT PERSONALLY.
SO WE TALK ABOUT THAT AS BOTH
THE WAY YOU HAVE TO REALLY
LISTEN CAREFULLY FOR DIFFERENT
FACETS OF PUBLIC OPINION AND THE
WAY PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCES ARE
SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE
WAY THEY SEE THE WORLD, BUT THEN
ALSO AS A STEP TOWARDS, OKAY,
WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT WHAT PUBLIC
OPINION IS, HOW IT WORKS, HOW TO
MEASURE IT, BUT NOW WHAT'S YOUR
ROLE IN PUBLIC OPINION?
WHEN YOU LEAVE THIS CLASS, WHEN
YOU LEAVE THIS UNIVERSITY, WHAT
KIND OF A PERSON DO YOU WANT TO
BE OUT THERE IN THE WORLD?
HOW DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO
RESPECT YOU AND LISTEN TO YOU
AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO
MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE KIND OF
DEMOCRACY WHERE, SITTING DOWN