THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>>> EXTREME WEATHER BLEW THROUGH
WISCONSIN THIS WEEK.
HEAT INDEXES HIT TRIPLE DIGITS,
CREATING HEAT ADVISORIES TO
RESIDENTS IN SOUTHEAST
WISCONSIN.
AND MILWAUKEE IS INVESTIGATING
TWO HEAT-RELATED DEATHS.
SEVERE STORMS ALSO WREAKED
HAVOC, LEAVING NEARLY 100,000
WITHOUT POWER.
SOME FOR DAYS.
A SPRING REPORT FROM AN ENERGY
WATCHDOG GROUP WARNED THE MIT
GRID IS AT HIGH RISK OF ENERGY
EMERGENCIES AND POSSIBLE
BLACKOUTS.
MARISSA SAT DOWN WITH PROFESSOR
DISDEMARK TO -- CHRIS DeMARCO
TO LEARN MORE.
>> THE GRID IS WARNING ABOUT
THE -- THESE HEADLINES ABOUT
POTENTIAL BLACKOUTS, IS THAT
CREATING AN ALARM --
>> THEIR REPORT IN THIS MAY OF
2022 FLAGGED PARTICULARLY THE
NORTH CENTRAL REGION OF THE
U.S., THE NORTHERN MIDWEST, AS
BEING SHORT ON SUFFICIENT
CAPACITY MARGIN.
SO WE ALWAYS LIKE TO BUILD IN
SOME MARGIN FOR SOME UNFORESEEN
EVENTS.
EQUIPMENT OUTAGES, UNEXPECTED
LATE WARM WEATHER, SOME PEAK
LEVEL THAT WASN'T FORESEEN AND
THOSE MARGINS ARE SLIMMER NOW
THAN THE RELIABILITY
ORGANIZATIONS WOULD LIKE THEM TO
BE.
I WOULD SAY THE -- NERK RAISED
THAT ALARM I THINK IN PART JUST
FOR ACTION.
AND THE ACTUAL OPERATOR OF THE
GRID THROUGHOUT MUCH OF THE
MIDDLE PART OF THE COUNTRY IS
THE MID CONTINENT INDEPENDENT
SYSTEM OPERATOR.
THEY ACTUALLY HAD SIGNS OF SOME
OF THESE SHORTFALLS EARLIER IN
THE SPRING.
AND THEY'VE CERTAINLY BEEN
TRYING TO TAKE STEPS, I THINK
THE WARNING CERTAINLY
LEGITIMATE, CERTAINLY BASED ON
REAL DATA.
BUT IN PART, BEING CONSERVATIVE
TO SPUR ACTION TO TRY AND AVOID
SIGNIFICANT OUTAGES.
>> IS THAT WHY EXPERTS DISAGREE
ON THE SEVERITY, BECAUSE THE
REPORT IS SAYING THAT IT'S A
SOBERING SITUATION.
BUT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE
REALLY DON'T NEED TO BE THAT
CONCERNED?
>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAINLY A
MIX OF MOWVATIONS AMONG THE
DIFFERENT PLAYERS -- MOTIVATIONS
AMONG THE DIFFERENT PLAYERS IN
THE GRID.
BUT I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS YOU
REALLY ARE TRYING TO PREDICT
THINGS THAT ARE INHERITLY RANDOM
CHANCE.
WE KNOW THAT INEVITABLY SOME
EQUIPMENT WILL FAIL, INEVITABLY
WE'LL GET SOME CONDITIONS WE
DIDN'T ANTICIPATE.
AND HISTORICALLY, WHEN SEVERE
BLACKOUTS HAVE HAPPENED, THEY'RE
AN ACCUMULATION OF THESE
RELATIVELY RARE EVENTS COMING
TOGETHER.
SO IT'S A JUDGMENT CALL AND IN
HOW YOU WEIGHT THOSE DIFFERENT
PROBABILITIES.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE
ORGANIZATIONS IN CHARGE TAKE A
CONSERVATIVE APPROACH AND YOU
KNOW, RID REGRID RELIABILITY
REMAINS AN IMPORTANT NEED AND I
THINK A BACKDROP TO ALL OF THIS
THAT FRANKLY THUS FAR HAS NOT
PROVEN TO BE AS SIGNIFICANT A
CONCERN EARLIER IN THE YEAR, BUT
ARE THERE RISKS OF CYBER ATTACKS
ON THE GRID SIMULTANEOUS WITH
THESE SHALL WE SAY NATURAL
EVENTS THAT MIGHT BE STRANGING
IT.
>> ARE CYBER ATTACKS LEGITIMATE
LARGE CONCERN?
>> I THINK THEY REMAIN A
LEGITIMATE CONCERN.
THE EVIDENCE TO THE -- AND IT'S
AVAILABLE PUBLICLY, SEEMS TO BE
THERE HAVE NOT BEEN THE SCALE OF
SIGNIFICANT ATTACKS THAT WORLD
EVENTS MIGHT HAVE CAUSED US TO
FEAR EARLIER IN THE YEAR.
BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S A SITUATION
THAT EVOLVES DAY BY DAY.
>> DOES WISCONSIN HAVE
ADDITIONAL CAPACITY, IS THAT
SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PRODUCED
AND STORED?
OR ARE WE IMPORTING ENERGY FROM
OUTSIDE OF THIS STATE?
>> SO AS A STATE, WE ARE
TYPICALLY A NET IMPOTTER AND --
IMPOTTER AND -- IMPORTER AND
SEVERAL OF THESE REGIONS THAT BY
OPERATE SWITCH, DON'T COINCIDE
WITH STATE LINES.
WE'RE PART OF TWO OF THE 10
REGIONS THAT MISSO DIVIDES UP AS
OPERATIONAL AREAS FOR THESE
CAPACITY ASSESSMENTS.
THEY ARE NET IMPORTERS.
THE GENERAL VIEWPOINT IS THAT'S
NOT A BAD THING, PROVIDED THAT'S
IMPORT CAPACITY THAT YOU CAN
ABSOLUTELY COUNT UPON.
>> HOW MUCH DO THE SOMEWHAT
CONTESTED HIGH CAPACITY
TRANSMISSION LINES -- HOW DO
THOSE PLAY INTO THE ENTIRE
ENERGY LANDSCAPE IN WISCONSIN?
>> YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, SEVERE
WEATHER EVENTS CAN OFTEN HAVE AN
IMPACT OVER A BIG GEOGRAPHIC
FOOTPRINT.
BUT IF YOU CAN REACH FURTHER FOR
YOUR SOURCES OF ENERGY, YOU
KNOW, YOU MAY MOVE OUTSIDE OF A
PARTICULAR POCKET OF VERY HOT
WEATHER OR STORM CONDITIONS.
SO IT IS ATTRACTIVE TO BE ABLE
TO MOVE ENERGY EFFECTIVELY OVER
LONG DISTANCES.
BUT IT COMES AT THAT
ENVIRONMENTAL COST OF BUILDING
TRANSMISSION LINES.
YOU KNOW, LIKE -- MY PERSONAL
ORIENTATION AS AN ELECTRICAL
ENGINEER, I PROBABLY LIKE
TRANSMISSION LINES MORE THAN THE
AVERAGE PERSON, BUT I
RECOGNIZES, YOU KNOW, MANY FOLKS
FIND THEM AN ASORE AND WOULD
PREFER NOT -- AN EYESORE AND
WOULD PREFER THEM NOT CLOSE TO
THEIR PROPERTY.
THAT REPRESENTS A SOCIETAL
TRADE-OFF WE HAVE TO GRAP WELL
IN POLICY.
>> -- GRAPPLE WITH IN POLICY.
>> DOES THE INCREASE IN BATTERY
TECHNOLOGY MAKE IT EASIER TO
STORE AND POLY HAVE -- TOE LENDL
HAVE ENERGY AT HAND WHEN
EMERGENCIES HAPPEN?
>> PART OF THE CHALLENGE IN THE
POWER GRID, I THINK THE LAY
PERSON SORT OF RUFFLE
UNDERSTANDS, BUT -- ROUGHLY
UNDERSTANDS, BUT IT REALLY IS A
SYSTEM IN WHICH SUPPLY HAS TO
MATCH DEMAND MOMENT BY MOMENT.
AND THAT PUTS REAL STRESSES ON
THE GRID.
EVEN A LITTLE BIT OF RELIEVE IN
TIME, HAPPEN -- RELIEF IN TIME,
SEVERAL HOURS, CAN BE VERY
VALUABLE.
SO I THINK WHAT YOU'LL SEE
INCREASINGLY, PARTICULARLY WITH
SOLAR RESOURCES, YOU KNOW -- NOT
HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY
PRODUCE THEIR MAXIMUM OUTPUT
MIDDAY.
BUT SINCE WE HUMANS TEND TO FEEL
THE ACCUMULATED EFFECT OF HEAT,
WE OFTEN TEND TO PUMP UP OUR AIR
CONDITIONERS MOST AT THE END OF
THE AFTERNOON.
SO YOU DON'T GET AN EXACT
COINCIDENCE IN TIME OF WHEN
YOU'RE GETTING THE BEST
PRODUCTION FROM THE SUN VERSUS
WHEN THE SUN IS ROUGHLY SPEAKING
DRIVING THE BIGGEST COMPONENT OF
CONSUMPTION, AIR-CONDITIONING.
AND IF YOU CAN MOVE THAT A
LITTLE BIT, A FEW HOURS IN TIME,
YOU CAN DO A GREAT DEAL TO
RELIEF STRESS ON THE GRID.
AND AS YOU KNOW -- RELIEVE
STRESS ON THE GRID.
AND IN SOME CASES MAY LESSEN THE
NEED FOR LONGER DISTANCE
TRANSMISSION.
>> PROFESSOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR THIS CONVERSATION.