POWER.
>> CONGRESSMAN MIKE GALLAGHER,
THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> OUTSIDE OF MILITARY FORCE,
PRESIDENT BIDEN IS MEETING WITH
A GROUP OF SEVEN LEADERS TO
DISCUSS FURTHER ECONOMIC
SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA AND
PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN.
OUR NEXT GUEST COMES FROM AN
ECONOMIC BACKGROUND AND HAS BEEN
VOTING FOR MEASURES TO APPLY
PRESSURE ON RUSSIA'S POCKETBOOK.
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN FROM THE
THIRD DISTRICT, RON KIND, JOINS
US NOW FROM LACROSSE.
CONGRESSMAN, THANKS VERY MUCH
FOR BEING HERE.
>> HI, FRED.
GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> SO WHAT IS YOUR REACTION AS
THIS WAR GRINDS INTO ITS SECOND
MONTH NOW?
>> WELL, I THINK VLADIMIR PUTIN
HAS MADE PERHAPS THE BIGGEST
STRATEGIC MISTAKE OF THE 21ST
CENTURY.
HE WAS EXPECTING A DIVIDED
UKRAINE, DIVIDED EUROPE, DIVIDED
NATO AND A DIVIDED UNITED STATES
AND INSTEAD HE GOT EXACTLY THE
OPPOSITE.
I COMMEND PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR
UNIFYING THE FREE WORLD IN SHORT
ORDER TO STAND UP AGAINST
PUTIN'S ILLEGAL AGGRESSION, BUT
IT WAS ALSO HELPFUL HAVING A
VERY COURAGEOUS, STRONG LEADER
IN PRESIDENT ZELENSKY, LEADING
THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND WHAT
WE'VE SEEN FROM THEM THESE LAST
FEW WEEKS.
SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE END
GAME LOOKS LIKE BUT I THINK IT'S
GOING TO LOOK VERY BAD FOR PUTIN
AND HIS RUSSIAN MILITARY.
>> PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID WE WOULD
RESPOND IN KIND IF RUSSIA
DEPLOYED CHEMICAL WEAPONS.
WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
>> A LITTLE STRATEGIC AMBIGUITY
IS NOT A BAD THING IN THIS TYPE
OF SITUATION.
WE MADE IT CLEAR THAT THAT'S
STEPPING OVER A VERY DANGEROUS
LINE AND THERE WOULD BE SEVERE
CONSEQUENCES.
I DON'T THINK VLADIMIR PUTIN
WANTS TO TEST US ON THAT.
I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO BE
HAPPY WITH OUR REACTION OR THE
REST OF THE WORLD'S REACTION IF
HE GOES THAT FAR.
>> DO YOU THINK THIS COULD BLOW
INTO WORLD WAR THREE?
>> I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT.
I MEAN, A NO-FLY ZONE WOULD BE
WORLD WAR THREE, AND I THINK
THAT'S WHY PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS
BEEN CLEAR THAT HE'S NOT GOING
TO HAVE THE U.S. IMPLEMENT A
NO-FLY ZONE.
AND BESIDES, THERE ARE BETTER
MILITARY TOOLS WE'RE GIVING YOUE
UKRAINIAN ARMY TO CONTROL THE
AIR SPACE, FROM THE STINGER AND
THE S300s RIGHT NOW.
PLUS THEY'RE MORE MOBILE.
THESE JETS FROM POLAND, YOU NEED
LANDING STRIPS, CREW, FUEL
LINES, TRAINED PILOTS, AND
RUSSIA DOES HAVE A VERY
EFFECTIVE ANTI-AIR DEFENSE
SYSTEM.
SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW
IS ABOUT THE BEST WE CAN DO TO
HARM THE UKRAINIAN ARMY TO KNOCK
SOME OF THE RUSSIAN PLANES AND
HELICOPTERS OUT OF THE SKY.
>> SO THE OTHER PRESS ON THE
PART OF THE U.S. AND NATO ALLIES
IS INCREASING SANCTIONS.
TO BAND THINGS LIKE FREEZING
RUSSIAN ASSETS AND SEIZING THESE
OLIGARCHS' YACHTS.
HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THESE KINDS OF
SANCTIONS?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN A THREE
FOLD RESPONSE, NOT ONLY
PROVIDING MILITARY AND
HUMANITARIAN AID TO THE
UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND THE FREE
WORLD IS STANDING UP AND DOING
THAT, BUT THE UNPRECEDENTED
ECONOMIC SANCTIONS THAT
PRESIDENT BIDEN LED AND PUT INTO
PLACE.
I WAS IN LONDON WITH THE
HIGH-TECH BAN, SOFTWARE,
MICROCHIPS, MICROPROCESSORS, WE
KNOW THE WORLD RUNS ON
MICROCHIPS TODAY.
THIS IS GOING TO TAKE A VERY
HEAVY TOLL ON THE RUSSIAN
ECONOMY, AND ESPECIALLY THE
RUSSIAN MILITARY.
THAT NEEDS THAT AND SPARE PARTS.
THE BIG MISSING INGREDIENT RIGHT
NOW IS THE ENERGY RESOURCES THAT
RUSSIA SUPPLIES WESTERN EUROPE.
AND WE'RE HARD AT WORK, IN FACT,
PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST ANNOUNCED A
MAJOR LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS
AGREEMENT WITH EUROPE.
THEY'RE DEPENDENT ON 40% OF
THEIR NATURAL GAS FROM RUSSIA.
I BELIEVE THIS NEW AGREEMENT
MOVING FORWARD IS GOING TO
REDUCE THAT DEPENDENCY, NOT JUST
IN THE SHORT TERM, BUT
PERMANENTLY, AND AGAIN, THAT WAS
A HUGE MISCALCULATION BY PUTIN
IN THIS WAR.
>> CAN THESE SANCTIONS BE
ESCALATED EVEN MORE?
>> YEAH, THEY'RE TAKING A TOLL
ALREADY, FRED.
THE RUBLE IS IN A FREE FALL,
THEY'RE QUADRUPLING INTEREST
RATES RIGHT NOW, THE STOCK
MARKET HAS BEEN CLOSED FOR
WEEKS, INFLATION IS EXPLODING
OUT OF CONTROL.
THETHEY HAVE TURNED THEM -- THE
REAL QUESTION IS WHAT'S CHINA'S
RESPONSE?
THEY'VE BEEN AMBIGUOUS ABOUT
WHICH WAY THEY'RE LEANING.
GIVEN THEIR CLOSE ECONOMIC TIES
TO THE U.S. AND EUROPEAN UNION,
I DON'T THINK CHINA WANTS TO
SIDE WITH AN INTERNATIONAL WAR
CRIMINAL, PUTIN AND RUSSIA, AT
THIS TIME.
>> NOT TO MENTION A COLLAPSED
ECONOMY.
>> YEAH, THAT'S VERY REAL AND
UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS
HAPPENING.
AND PUTIN IS DOING EVERYTHING HE
CAN TO TURN THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY
INTO NORTH KOREA.
THAT'S NOT A GOOD PLACE TO BE.
>> MEANWHILE, THE MORE THAN
3 1/2 MILLION UKRAINIANS HAVE
FLED THEIR COUNTRY AND THE U.S.
HAS NOW PLEDGED TO ALLOW ABOUT
100,000 OF THEM TO COME HERE.
IN YOUR MIND, IS THAT ENOUGH?
IS THAT WELCOMING ENOUGH ON THE
PART OF THE U.S.?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY GOOD
START AS FAR AS 100,000 REFUGEES
COMING TO THE UNITED STATE,
THOSE WOULD BE PAIRED UP WITH
EXISTING FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE
ALREADY HERE, SO IT SHOULD BE A
QUICK VETTING PROCESS.
BUT WE'RE HEARING THAT MOST OF
THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WANT TO
STAY CLOSE TO UKRAINE.
THEY WANT TO RETURN TO THEIR
HOMES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
AS YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE WOMEN
AND CHILDREN THAT LEFT, AND THE
MEN ARE LEFT BEHIND TO FIGHT.
I DON'T THINK THEY WANT TO BE
SEPARATED THAT FAR RIGHT NOW, SO
TRYING TO KEEP THEM AS CLOSE
WITH THE HUMANITARIAN AID THAT
WE'RE PROVIDING THE NEIGHBORING
NATIONS, I THINK THAT'S THE
RIGHT APPROACH RIGHT NOW.
>> WHILE WE HAVE YOU HERE,
BEFORE YOU STEP DOWN FROM YOUR
SEAT, HOW DIFFICULT DO YOU THINK
IT WILL BE FOR DEMOCRATS TO HOLD
THE THIRD?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK OVERALL,
THE DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE IS GOING
TO BE VERY STRONG, VERY
POWERFUL.
WE'VE DONE OUR BEST TO HELP GET
OUT OF THIS COVID CRISIS THE
LAST TWO YEARS.
I CAN'T IMAGINE WHERE WE WOULD
BE IF THE REPUBLICANS WERE IN
CHARGE AND DENYING VACCINATION
AND FACE MASKS AND PROTECTING
PEOPLE.
WE HAVE A BUILD AMERICA BACK
BETTER PLAN WITH INFRASTRUCTURE,
BROADBAND, HEALTHCARE AND
EDUCATION.
REPUBLICANS ARE OFFERING
NOTHING, OTHER THAN BIG LIE
ELECTION CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND
FRAUDULENT ACCOUNTS THAT DON'T
EXIST.
I JUST CAUTION PEOPLE TO BE
CAREFUL HOW THEY EXERCISE THIS
VOTE THIS YEAR.
THERE'S ONE MAJOR PARTY, THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHO BELIEVES
THAT ONLY -- THE ONLY LEGITIMATE
ELECTION OUTCOME IS THE ONE THAT
THEY WIN, AND THAT'S A VERY
DANGEROUS PLACE FOR OUR
DEMOCRACY TO BE RIGHT NOW.
>> CONGRESSMAN RON KIND, THANKS
VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.