>> AS HORRIFYING AS IT IS TO
WATCH THE HUMAN CARNAGE OF WAR
IN UKRAINE FROM AFAR, FOR PEOPLE
WHO CALL UKRAINE HOME, IT'S
UNSPEAKABLE.
OUR NEXT GUEST, A UKRAINE NATIVE
AND WISCONSIN TRANSPLANT,
WORRIES FOR HER FAMILY THERE.
BUT SHE CONSIDERS ALL UKRAINIANS
HER FAMILY, AND THE ATROCITIES
ARE TAKING THEIR TOLL.
RUSLANA WESTERLUND JOINS US FROM
HER HOME IN CROSS PLAINS,
WISCONSIN.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
I'M GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> SO WHAT IS YOUR REACTION WHEN
YOU SEE THE CONTINUED BRUTALITY
AGAINST UKRAINE AND ITS PEOPLE?
>> YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT I
WOULD -- IT WOULD GET EASIER,
BUT IT'S ABSOLUTELY
HEART-WRENCHING BECAUSE THE
ATROCITY CONTINUES AND THE
CIVILIANS ARE ATTACKED AND
BOMBED AND MATERNITY WARDS ARE
ATTACKED AND CHILDREN'S
HOSPITALS ARE TARGETED AND
BOMBED, AND NOW THE WAR JUST
BECOMES JUST PAINFUL AND
IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE SENSE OF OR
WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND.
>> HOW DO YOU EVEN DEAL WITH IT,
SEEING THAT, AND KNOWING THAT
YOUR FAMILY REMAINS IN UKRAINE?
>> I TRY TO SEEK SUPPORT, AND I
HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF SUPPORT.
AND I TRY TO STAY IN TOUCH WITH
MY FAMILY IN UKRAINE, AND TO
EITHER ENCOURAGE THEM OR TO JUST
CHECK IN ON HOW THEY'RE DOING,
AND CONSTANT COMMUNICATION, JUST
ORGANIZING RALLIES IN MADISON
AND FEELING THE SOLIDARITY AND
FEELING THE SUPPORT OF PEOPLE
HELPS TO GET THROUGH DAY TO DAY
OR SOMETIMES HOUR BY HOUR.
>> WHERE ARE MEMBERS OF YOUR
FAMILY NOW, AND WHAT IS
HAPPENING TO THEM?
>> SO MY DAD AND MY STEPMOM, MY
UNCLES AND AUNTS, THE MAJORITY
OF THEM LIVE IN CENTRAL UKRAINE,
AND THEY DO LIVE IN FEAR, EVEN
THOUGH THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO IN
THE BOMB SHELTERS YET, BECAUSE
RELATIVELY THAT AREA HAS BEEN
LEFT UNTOUCHED, BUT IT'S
STILL -- THERE IS STILL A LOT OF
FEAR.
SO THEY'RE IN CENTRAL UKRAINE,
AND SOME OF MY NEPHEWS ARE IN --
SOME OF MY RELATIVES ARE IN
WESTERN UKRAINE.
>> SO I HAVE READ THAT YOU
DIDN'T EXPECT PUTIN TO ACTUALLY
INVADE UKRAINE.
WHY NOT?
>> I THINK IT WAS JUST HARD TO
BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD ACTUALLY
DO IT.
I MEAN, WE KNEW THE WAR IN THE
EAST HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE
2014 AND THE ANNEXATION, SO WE
THOUGHT MAYBE HE'LL BE
CONTINUING THOSE EFFORTS BECAUSE
HE'S GOT AN AGENDA THERE.
SO IT WAS JUST -- THE INNOVATION
OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS A
SHOCK TO ALL OF US.
>> AND THE CONTINUED BRUTALITY
OF IT, WHAT ABOUT THAT?
STILL SHOCKING, I IMAGINE.
>> IT'S -- IT'S -- SOMETIMES I
HAVE NO WORDS.
AND I WRITE POETRY TO PROCESS
AND I WROTE A POEM BUT THERE ARE
NO WORDS ESPECIALLY WHEN THE
HUMANITARIAN CORRIDORS ARE BEING
MINED, SO EVACUEES CANNOT
ESCAPE.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY A WAR CRIME,
BECAUSE CIVILIANS ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE ALLOWED TO ESCAPE AND
EVACUATE.
SO WHEN THE HUMANITARIAN
CORRIDORS ARE MINED AND BLOWN
UP, THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT JUST
ATROCITY AND BRUTALITY AND
EXTERMINATION OF PEOPLE.
>> WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE
THE U.S. DO TO HELP UKRAINE FEND
OFF THE RUSSIANS?
>> I WOULD LIKE THE U.S. TO COME
UP WITH CREATIVE SOLUTIONS
THAT -- BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND
INVOLVING NATO DIRECTLY IS NOT
SAFE OR MAYBE IT S I REALLY
DON'T KNOW, BUT IF THAT'S AN
OPTION, THINK OF CREATIVE WAYS
OF HOW TO SUPPLY THE MIGS, THE
FIGHTER JETS BY ALLOWING AND
EQUIPPING THE UKRAINIAN ARMY TO
FIGHT OFF THE WAR WITH MORE
EQUIPMENT.
THE WORLD HAS TO STEP UP AND DO
SOMETHING MORE.
>> DOES IT SURPRISE YOU THAT
UKRAINE HAS PUT UP SUCH A GOOD
FIGHT?
>> NO, BECAUSE WE ARE RESILIENT
PEOPLE, WE'RE STRONG PEOPLE,
WE'RE INDEPENDENCE-LOVING
PEOPLE.
WE HAVE NEVER BEEN PART OF
RUSSIA, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.
WE HAVE BEEN DRAGGED INTO THE
SOVIET UNION, BUT WE HAVE ALWAYS
BEEN INDEPENDENT PEOPLE IN OUR
SPIRIT.
SINCE OUR HISTORY CENTURIES AGO.
SO WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN -- WE ARE
KIND OF USED TO OPPRESSORS NOW.
IT'S SAD, BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE
ENDURED SUCH BRUTALITY AND
OPPRESSION IN '33, WE HAVE
DEVELOPED RESILIENCE AND
STRENGTH TO FIGHT OFF BECAUSE
INDEPENDENCE AND OUR SOIL ARE
THE MOST IMPORTANT VALUES TO US.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN
IN THE END?
>> WE WILL WIN.
WE WILL WIN.
AND I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO
RUSSIA.
BUT UKRAINE WILL WIN.
IT WILL COST US MORE LIVES AND
IT'S -- THE UNSPEAKABLE
ATROCITIES WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE
PUTIN WON'T GIVE UP EASILY BUT
WE WILL WIN.
WE JUST NEED SUPPORT, CONTINUED,
CONTINUED GLOBAL SUPPORT TO HELP
US WIN.
>> RUSLANA WESTERLUND, THANK YOU
FOR JOINING US, AND GOOD LUCK TO
YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.