>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> THIS WEEK, THE LEGISLATURE
PUT FORWARD RIOT BILLS IN
REACTION TO 2020.
ALSO HAPPENING, THE RACE FOR
GOVERNOR HEATS UP WITH A NEW
REPUBLICAN CONTENDER.
AND WE TAKE A LOOK INTO THE
LIVES OF AFGHAN REFUGEES IN
WISCONSIN, AS THEY LOOK FOR
SAFETY AND ASYLUM.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW,"
MARISA WOJCIK REPORTS ON THE
EFFORTS TO RESETTLE AFGHAN
REFUGEES, AND WE HEAR INSIGHT
FROM ONE OF THE LAWYERS WORKING
TO HELP THEM, ERIN BARBATO.
PLUS, MORDECAI LEE WEIGHS IN ON
THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
JANUARY 28TH.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM, AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> THE EMERGENCY EVACUATION IN
AFGHANISTAN LAST AUGUST
AIRLIFTED MORE THAN 120,000
PEOPLE.
13,000 CAME TO FORT MCCOY NEAR
TOMAH.
AND NOW HUNDREDS OF FAMILIES ARE
SETTLING IN, CALLING WISCONSIN
THEIR NEW PERMANENT HOME.
BUT THERE IS STILL AN UPHILL
CLIMB TO FIND HOUSING, NAVIGATE
THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, AND SORT
THROUGH THE TRAUMA OF LEAVING
THEIR HOME TO THE HANDS OF THE
TALIBAN.
MARISA WOJCIK REPORTS.
>> IT'S JUST LIKE COMPLETELY
SHOCKING.
IT'S JUST LIKE, OH, MY GOD, I
WAS NEVER EXPECTING THIS, AND IT
JUST HAPPENED ALL OF THE SUDDEN.
>> WHEN I SAW THE NEWS, I'M SO
UPSET, I AM SO SAD.
>> PEOPLE SAW CHAOS AND IT WAS
AWFUL, THE WAY THAT THE UNITED
STATES HAD TO LEAVE.
>> EVERYBODY JUST TRIED TO
ESCAPE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO
SURVIVE.
>> BASICALLY THE TALIBAN HAD
OVERRUN THE CITY AND THE
AIRPORT.
TO ME, IT WAS LIKE KABUL FELL.
>> IMAGES OF CROWDS OF PEOPLE
OUTSIDE THE KABUL AIRPORT,
WAITING ON TARMACS, AND BEING
PACKED INTO MILITARY PLANES
SATURATED SCREENS AROUND THE
WORLD AS THE UNITED STATES
FRANTICALLY EVACUATED PEOPLE OUT
OF AFGHANISTAN IN AUGUST OF 2021
AND THE TALIBAN SEIZED POWER.
>> EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK
LIKE THEM IS AN ENEMY TO
TALIBAN.
AND YOU CAN GET KILLED FOR THE
BASIC REASON AS BEING -- AS
LIVING IN KABUL.
>> SHER KHAN, A JOURNALIST, WAS
EVACUATED FROM KABUL WITH HIS
WIFE AND CHILDREN LAST YEAR AND
THEY REACHED FORT MCCOY IN
SEPTEMBER.
NOW, WITH THE TALIBAN IN POWER,
MANY HAVE LOST HOPE FOR THOSE
THEY LEFT BEHIND IN AFGHANISTAN.
>> I WAS HOPING THAT I GET
GRADUATED AND THEN GO BACK HOME
SO I COULD SURPRISE MY FAMILY.
BUT THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
>> THIS IS JOHNNY.
HE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES IN
2014 ON A SPECIAL IMMIGRANT
VISA, OR SIV, FOR WORK HE DID TO
HELP THE UNITED STATES MILITARY.
>> I WAS RECEIVING THREAT, YOU
KNOW, LIKE TEXT MESSAGES AND
THEN PHONE CALLS WHILE I WAS
WORKING WITH THE U.S. MARINES.
I DECIDED NOT TO STICK AROUND
ANYMORE AND JUST MOVE TO THE
U.S.
>> HIS IDENTITY IS BEING
PROTECTED BECAUSE HE FEARS HIS
FAMILY IS STILL IN AFGHANISTAN
WILL BE TARGETED.
HIS FAMILY TRIED BUT THEY WERE
UNABLE TO MAKE IT INTO THE KABUL
AIRPORT.
>> THE DAY THE EXPLOSION
HAPPENED, THEY LEFT 30 MINUTES
BEFORE, CAN YOU IMAGINE THEY'RE
THERE, LIKE, YOU COULD HAVE LOST
THE ENTIRE FAMILY.
>> FOR MANY FAMILIES, IT'S A
SIMILAR STORY.
>> I AM CONCERNED ABOUT MY TWO
BROTHERS.
THEY WORKED WITH THE MILITARY.
>> KHALID CAME TO WISCONSIN IN
2017, AFTER RECEIVING THREATS
FOR HIS WORK WITH THE U.S.
TWO OF HIS BROTHERS ARE
CURRENTLY BEING TARGETED BY THE
TALIBAN.
THEY, TOO, WERE UNSUCCESSFUL
GETTING IN TO THE KABUL AIRPORT.
>> THEY PUNISH THEM, GO AWAY
FROM AIRPORT.
THEY HIT HIM BY THE GUN AND THEY
BROKEN HIS ARM.
>> NOW, HIS BROTHERS HAVE FLED
CENTRAL KABUL FOR SAFETY, ONLY
VISITING THEIR FAMILIES UNDER
THE COVER OF DARKNESS.
>> NEIGHBORS ARE BEING
THREATENED BY THE TALIBAN
BECAUSE THEY LIVED NEXT DOOR TO
SOMEONE THAT IS KNOWN TO HAVE
WORKED FOR THE U.S. OR A U.S.
COMPANY.
JUST PROXIMITY COULD PUT YOU IN
DANGER.
>> THE NEW GENERATION, THEY HOPE
FOR THE FUTURE, BUT NOW THEY
DON'T HAVE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE.
>> THERE IS NO HOPE OF FUTURE
FOR THE PEOPLE.
IF I LET -- FOR EXAMPLE, EVEN IF
TALIBAN DIDN'T KILL ME, IF, FOR
EXAMPLE, MY CHILDREN WOULD NOT
GET THE CHANCE TO GET EDUCATION.
AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT.
I WOULD HAVE DONE EVERYTHING I
COULD TO PROVIDE MY CHILDREN TO
GET THEIR EDUCATION BECAUSE I
DON'T WANT MY CHILDREN TO BE
EXTREMISTS.
I DON'T WANT MY CHILDREN TO BE
FUNDAMENTALISTS.
I WANT MY CHILDREN TO DO
SOMETHING TO MAKE A POSITIVE
DIFFERENCE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S
LIFE.
THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO
DO.
>> IN TERMS OF MONEY, IN TERMS
OF JOBS, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW,
THE ECONOMY, IN TERMS OF, YOU
KNOW, HOW PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW,
ESCAPING THE COUNTRY AND THERE'S
NO EDUCATION, IT'S JUST LIKE SO
MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.
>> WITH KABUL'S AIRPORT SHUT
DOWN, THE ONLY WAY OUT FOR
JOHNNY'S FAMILY IS TO FLEE TO A
NEIGHBORING COUNTRY.
A JOURNEY HIS YOUNG SISTERS
CANNOT WEATHER.
>> THOSE LITTLE GIRLS WON'T BE
ABLE TO WALK FOR 20 AND 25 DAYS
IN A ROW.
THAT'S JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO JUST
GET TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.
BECAUSE THERE'S NO FLIGHTS,
THERE'S NO TRANSPORTATION, AND
THEY DON'T HAVE THE
DOCUMENTATION.
I AM REALLY HOPING THAT SOMEONE
WILL SEE AND HEAR MY VOICE AND
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW,
LIKE WE WERE PROMISED THAT WE
WILL BE SAVED AND OUR FAMILY
WILL BE SAVED.
>> HONESTLY, WHEN WE'RE AT FORT
MCCOY TALKING WITH PEOPLE ABOUT
THEIR OWN ASYLUM CASE, THEIR OWN
SIV OR WAY TO STAY IN THE U.S.,
THEY ALMOST ALWAYS START OUT
WITH THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO
ME IS WHAT CAN I DO FOR MY
FAMILY OR MY FRIENDS OR MY
COLLEAGUES WHO ARE STILL IN
AFGHANISTAN, AND THEY'RE DEATHLY
AFRAID, FOR GOOD REASON, WHAT
COULD HAPPEN TO THEM.
>> GRANT SOVERN IS AN
IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY IN MADISON.
>> SO WHAT WE REALIZED ABOUT TWO
MONTHS INTO EVERYBODY BEING HERE
IS, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO
APPLY FOR ASYLUM LIKE EVERYBODY
ELSE DOES WHO IS AFRAID TO GO
BACK HOME.
>> WHILE MANY PEOPLE QUALIFIED
FOR SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISAS, AT
LEAST HALF WERE DESIGNATED WITH
SOMETHING CALLED PAROLE STATUS.
SOVERN HELPED WITH LEGAL
ORIENTATION EFFORTS AT FO FORT
MCCOY, RUNNING CLINICS TO HELP
PEOPLE START TO THINK ABOUT THE
ASYLUM APPLICATION PROCESS.
>> WE ALL ASSUME YOU CAN GET
ASYLUM BECAUSE YOUR COUNTRY IS
FALLING APART, AND THAT IS NOT
WHAT ASYLUM IS ABOUT.
YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU WILL
BE -- YOU SPECIFICALLY WILL BE
SINGLED OUT BECAUSE OF ONE OF
THESE GROUNDS.
SO IT'S A LONG PROCESS.
>> FOR SOVERN, WHO'S BEEN DOING
PRO BONO IMMIGRATION WORK FOR
YEARS, THERE'S BEEN A LACK OF
LEGAL RESOURCES LONG BEFORE
THIS.
>> BUT THIS IS CERTAINLY THE
MOST ACUTE AND THE LARGEST
NUMBER OF PROBLEMS FOR THE
RESOURCES THAT WE ALREADY DON'T
HAVE.
AND A TIMELINE THAT HAS TO BE
ACHIEVED OTHERWISE, WE COULD BE
SENDING PEOPLE BACK TO
AFGHANISTAN.
>> HE SAYS ANYONE WITH THIS
PAROLE STATUS HAS ONE YEAR UPON
ENTERING THE UNITED STATES TO
FILE THEIR APPLICATION AND TWO
YEARS TO BE APPROVED.
BUT THEY NEED A PERMANENT
ADDRESS FIRST.
>> RIGHT NOW, WE ARE JUST ALL
SCRAMBLING WITH THE SURGE.
WE CAN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING ELSE.
>> MARY FLYNN IS A PROGRAM
MANAGER FOR LUTHERAN SOCIAL
SERVICES REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT,
HANDLING CASES IN THE MILWAUKEE
AREA.
AGENCIES HELP WITH A LONG LIST
OF ITEMS, BUT MOST IMPORTANT AND
DESPERATELY NEEDED IS AFFORDABLE
HOUSING.
>> THE INCREASE IN PRICES ARE
MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE
WE ALWAYS WANT TO HAVE THEM BE
SELF-SUFFICIENT.
THE DIGNITY AND RESPECT OF
LEARNING LIFE IN AMERICA AND
DOING WELL.
WE WANT THEM TO DO WELL.
>> JOHNNY SAYS WISCONSIN IS A
GOOD PLACE FOR REFUGEES TO
RESETTLE.
>> I LOVE CHEESE, AND I'M
TURNING TO SOMETHING MORE LIKE A
WISCONSIN PERSON.
I REALLY DON'T LIKE THE COLD,
BUT BESIDE THAT, I LOVE
WISCONSIN.
>> NOW, JOHNNY AND KHALID ARE
HELPING OUT AS TRANSLATORS FOR
NEWLY ARRIVED FAMILIES.
>> I'M NOT DONE WITH SERVING,
AND I REALLY WANT TO BE
SOMEWHERE SO I CAN BE PROUD OF
MY FAMILY AND BOTH OF MY
COUNTRIES.
>> I HELP AS A VOLUNTEER BECAUSE
OUR AFGHAN CULTURE.
WHEN YOU ARE AN AFGHAN
SOMEWHERE, THEY WILL NEED HELP,
YOU HAVE TO HELP.
>> AS LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS WORK
TO RESETTLE MORE AND MORE
PEOPLE, THEY'RE HOPING
COMMUNITIES WILL STEP UP AND
HELP WITH RESOURCES.
>> I THINK IT'S A REAL
OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL OF US TO
PRACTICE THE WELCOME THAT REALLY
IS WISCONSIN.
BUT THE WELCOME ALSO INCLUDES,
YOU KNOW, PROVIDING A SAFE
COMMUNITY WHERE THEY CAN LIVE,
AND RIGHT NOW, IT MEANS FINDING
OTHER WAYS TO HELP THEIR LOCAL
REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT AGENCIES
ARE NEEDING PLACES FOR THEM TO
STAY, ARE NEEDING CLOTHING AND
KITCHEN SUPPLIES AND SCHOOL
SUPPLIES FOR KIDS WHEN THEY'LL
GO TO SCHOOL.
BUT THEY ALSO NEED LEGAL
SUPPORT.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I WOULD
COUNT THEM AS LUCKY IF THEY
INNED UP IN WISCONSIN BECAUSE I
THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
WHO BELIEVE IN THAT KIND OF
THING, AND I THINK PEOPLE WILL
STEP UP AND HELP.
>> I THINK THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE
TO REMEMBER THAT THIS COULD BE
US.
AND WHEN YOU THINK OF IT THAT
WAY, YOU SEE THE IMPORTANCE OF
BEING KIND AND COMPASSIONATE AND
MAKING THEM FEEL WELCOME LIKE
YOU'D LIKE TO BE.
>> BRINGING THIS AMOUNT OF
PEOPLE FROM ONE SIDE OF THE
WORLD TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
WORLD AND GIVING THEM ALL THE
THINGS THEY NEED, THAT IS JUST
BEYOND MY IMAGINATION.
I CAN'T EVEN LIKE, I MEAN,
SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE I'M DRE
DREAMING.
WHATEVER WE RECEIVE HERE, WE ARE
THANKFUL FOR.
>> REPORTING FOR "HERE AND NOW,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK.
>> JOURNALIST SHARE HAHN AND HIS
WIFE AND CHILDREN ARE BEING
RESETTLED IN MASSACHUSETTS AND
HE HOPES TO SOON GET BACK TO HIS
PASSION OF JOURNALISM.
FORT MCCOY IS ONE OF THE LAST
BASES OPEN, AND OFFICIALS ARE
HOPING TO HAVE EVERYONE
RESETTLED BY THE END OF
FEBRUARY.
THE UW LAW SCHOOL IMMIGRANT
JUSTICE CLINIC HAS BEEN WORKING
WITH REFUGEES THERE OVER THE
MONTHS SINCE THEIR ARRIVAL.
PROFESSOR ERIN BARBATO DIRECTS
THE CLINIC, AND SHE JOINS US
NOW.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO AS POINTED TO IN MARISA'S
REPORTING, HOW COMPLICATED IS
THE LEGAL PROCESS FOR AFGHAN
REFUGEES AIRLIFTED HERE?
>> IT'S INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK
WAS SURPRISING TO EVERYONE AS WE
STARTED NAVIGATING THE SYSTEM
AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO
PROVIDE LEGAL RESOURCES TO THE
PEOPLE THAT ARRIVED, BECAUSE
BEFORE THEY ARRIVED, WE THOUGHT
MANY OF THEM WOULD BE GOING
THROUGH THE PROCESS OF APPLYING
FOR SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISA AND
NOW THEY'VE LOOKING THAT A
MAJORITY OF THEM WILL BE GOING
THROUGH THE ASYLUM PROCESS.
>> SO WHAT IS MOSTLY THE CURRENT
LEGAL STATUS OF PEOPLE NOW IN
WISCONSIN, IF YOU KNOW?
>> MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME
OVER FROM AFGHANISTAN THAT DID
NOT ALREADY HAVE AN IMMIGRANT
VISA OR WERE U.S. CITIZENS OR A
SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISA, THEY
WERE ADMITTED IN SOMETHING
CALLED PAROLE STATUS, THAT THE
GOVERNMENT HAS THE ABILITY TO
ADMIT PEOPLE INTO THE UNITED
STATES FOR HUMANITARIAN REASONS.
SO THAT'S HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE
ARRIVED AND ARE NOW LIVING IN
THAT STATUS WHILE THEY SEEK THE
NEXT STEPS TO HAVE A PATHWAY TO
CITIZENSHIP HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES.
>> WHAT IS YOUR CLINIC DOING NOW
FOR AFGHAN REFUGEES AT FORT
MCCOY?
>> AT FORT MCCOY, WE'RE NOT
WORKING THERE ANYMORE, THINGS
ARE COMING TO A CLOSE THERE, BUT
WE ARE STARTING TO PROVIDE LEGAL
SERVICES TO AFGHANS WHO ARE
LIVING IN THE COMMUNITY AND
SEEKING ASYLUM, OR IN THE
PROCESS OF DEPORTATION, SO WE'RE
HOPING TO PROVIDE REPRESENTATION
TO A NUMBER OF FAMILIES AND
INDIVIDUALS, BUT THERE ARE NOT
ENOUGH RESOURCES AT THE
IMMIGRANT JUSTICE CLINIC AND
REALLY HOPING TO CREATE MORE
COMMUNITY EFFORT WITH OTHER
NGOs IN THE STATE.
>> IS IT TRUE THAT PEOPLE COULD
BE SENT BACK TO AFGHANISTAN IF
THEY DON'T COMPLETE THE ASYLUM
APPLICATION PROCESS IN TIME?
>> IT IS A POSSIBILITY.
NORMALLY WHEN SOMEONE IS
APPLYING FOR ASYLUM, THEY NEED
TO APPLY WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR
OF ARRIVING IN THE UNITED
STATES.
THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO
THAT, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE
MAY BE AN EXCEPTION APPLIED IN
THIS CASE BECAUSE EVERYBODY --
MOST PEOPLE ARRIVE WITH PAROLE
HAVE TWO YEARS OF STATUS AS
PAROLEES BEFORE THEIR LAWFUL
STATUS WOULD BE TERMINATED.
SO THEY MAY HAVE A LITTLE BIT
MORE TIME TO APPLY.
BUT IF YOU DON'T APPLY AND YOU
FALL OUT OF STATUS, YOU MAY BE
FACING DEPORTATION.
>> IN FACT, JUST A MINUTE AGO,
YOU SPOKE TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE
IN THE DEPORTATION PROCESS.
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN TO SOMEONE?
>> SOME PEOPLE CAN BE PLACED IN
THE DEPORTATION PROCESS BECAUSE
THEY ARE CONVICTED OF SOMETHING
OR THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING THAT
MAKES THEM DEPORTABLE AND THEY
HAVE TO GO IN FRONT OF A JUDGE.
MOST OF THEM ARE GOING THROUGH
THE ASYLUM PROCESS, SO THROUGH
IMMIGRATION SERVICES WHICH IS
NOT IN FRONT OF AN IMMIGRATION
JUDGE BUT IF THEY'RE NOT
SUCCESSFUL AT OBTAINING ASYLUM
THEY WILL THEN BE IN FRONT OF A
JUDGE FOR KIND OF THEIR LAST
CHANCE.
>> BACKING UP A LITTLE BIT,
SINCE EVERYONE WHO WAS BROUGHT
HERE ALREADY WENT THROUGH
BACKGROUND CHECKS, COULDN'T
CONGRESS JUST PASS A BILL SAYING
THAT PEOPLE WHO WERE EMERGENCY
EVACUATED AUTOMATICALLY GET
ASYLUM?
>> A LOT OF PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY
WITH THIS SITUATION, WE'RE
HOPING THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING
CALLED LIKE AN AFGHAN ADJUSTMENT
ACT, BUT WE'VE HAD IT BEFORE
WITH THE CUBAN ADJUSTMENT ACT,
WHICH WILL ALLOW EVERYBODY WHO
CAME IN THIS EMERGENT SITUATION
TO HAVE AN EXPEDITED MANNER TO
OBTAIN THEIR LAWFUL PERMANENT
RESIDENT STATUS AND THEN HAVE A
PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP.
BUT SO FAR IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE
THERE HAS BEEN MUCH MOVEMENT IN
OUR CONGRESS TO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN.
>> MARISA, IN HER STORY ALSO,
SPOKE TO THE TRAUMA OF WHAT
HAPPENED TO THESE FOLKS AND HOW
THEY LANDED IN WISCONSIN.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM PEOPLE
WHEN YOU WERE WORKING WITH THEM
AT FORT MCCOY ABOUT THAT TRAUMA
AND HOW THEY'RE ABLE TO KIND OF
MOVE THROUGH THAT?
>> SO WE WORK WITH A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING ASYLUM
FROM AROUND THE WORLD.
I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A
NUMBER OF YEARS NOW, AND THE
STORIES ARE VERY SIMILAR.
THIS IS A PARTICULARLY TRAUMATIC
SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE WERE
EVACUATED WITHOUT MUCH TIME TO
PREPARE, WHICH IS COMMON IN AT
SIGH LUM, BUT ASYLUM, BUT THEY O
LOCATIONS THEY'VE NEVER KNOWN
BEFORE.
SO THE TRAUMA IS SOMETHING
PEOPLE ARE REALLY GOING TO NEED
RESOURCES TO DEAL WITH AND TO
HEAL FROM, AND HOPING THAT WE
CAN PROVIDE THAT AS A COUNTRY TO
THESE PEOPLE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WELL, PROFESSOR, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WO
WORK.
>> THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HAVING ME
AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON
THIS.
>> THESE SEGMENTS ARE PART OF A
PBS WISCONSIN WPRWISCONTEXT
COLLABORATION, UTILIZING
REPORTING, RESEARCH AND
COMMUNITY-BASED EXPERTISE TO
PROVIDE INFORMATION AND INSIGHT
ABOUT ISSUES THAT AFFECT
WISCONSIN.
LOOK FOR A FULL PRESENTATION OF
THIS PARTNERSHIP REPORTING
ONLINE THIS COMING MONDAY
MORNING, AND HEAR FROM THE
JOURNALISTS ON CENTRAL TIME ON
THE IDEAS NETWORK MONDAY
AFTERNOON.
ON THE COVID FRONT, CASES AROUND
THE STATE REMAIN HIGH BUT ARE
DOWN FROM THE STRATOSPHERIC PEAK
OF MID JANUARY.
DANE COUNTY ANNOUNCED THE
COUNTY'S MASK MANDATE WOULD
CONTINUE ANOTHER MONTH, THROUGH
THE END OF FEBRUARY.
>> DESPITE SEEING CASES AND
HOSPITALIZATIONS LEVEL OFF FROM
THE STEEP INCREASES WE
EXPERIENCED EARLIER THIS MONTH,
OVER THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS,
WE'VE SEEN THIS DECREASE BUT WE
ARE STILL IN A SURGE.
OUR HOSPITALS ARE STILL JUGGLING
AN INCREDIBLE NUMBER OF
PATIENTS, BOTH COVID AND
OTHERWISE, SO PLEASE CONTINUE TO
USE STRONG PREVENTION PRACTICES.
>> IN MILWAUKEE, VICE PRESIDENT
KAMALA HARRIS VISITED THE CITY
THIS WEEK.
SHE TAUGHTED THE
ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS TO
REMOVE LEAD WATER LINES, WHICH
WAS A PART OF THE MAJOR
INFRASTRUCTURE BILL PASSED LAST
YEAR.
>> LAST MONTH, WE RELEASED THE
BIDEN-HARRIS LEAD PIPE ACTION
PLAN AND THE GOAL IS TO REMOVE
AND REPLACE ALL LEAD PIPES OVER
THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
THESE INVESTMENTS WILL CREATE
GOOD UNION JOBS.
THESE INVESTMENTS WILL ADDRESS
THE NEEDS OF OUR CHILDREN.
THESE INVESTMENTS WILL RESULT IN
IMPROVED PUBLIC HEALTH, THE
CREATION OF MORE JOBS, THE
INFUSION OF SUPPORT FOR
IMPORTANT APARENTIVE SHIP
PROGRAMS, AND IT'S JUST SIMPLY
THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
>> ACCORDING TO HARRIS, THE
$15 BILLION PLAN TO REMOVE LEAD
PIPES, 48 MILLION OF THOSE FUNDS
WILL BE DISBURSED TO WISCONSIN
THIS YEAR.
MEANWHILE AT THE STATE CAPITOL,
THE LEGISLATURE PASSED A SLATE
OF LAW ENFORCEMENT BILLS AIMED
AT INCREASING RECRUITMENT FOR A
WORKFORCE HIT HARD BY THE
PANDEMIC.
ALSO IN THE PACKAGE, REPUBLICAN
BILLS IN RESPONSE TO THE
PROTESTS SEEN DURING 2020, SOME
OF WHICH TURNED VIOLENT.
THE GOP PROPOSAL WOULD DEFINEśWE
KNOWINGLY PARTICIPATING IN A
RIOT THAT RESULTS IN SUBSTANTIAL
DAMAGE TO PROPERTY OR PERSONAL
INJURY A FELONY.
>> PROTEST IS DEMOCRACY.
THIS BILL BEING BROUGHT FORWARD
TODAY BY MY FRIENDS ACROSS THE
AISLE IS A DECLARATION OF WAR
AGAINST THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
THE SPIRIT OF THIS BILL IS
DISMANTLING OF THE VERY FIRST
GUARANTEES IN THIS COUNTRY'S
CONSTITUTION.
THOSE OF FREE SPEECH AND THE
RIGHT TO ASSEMBLY.
>> YOU HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO
GO OUT THERE AND SAY THAT YOU
DISAGREE WITH YOUR GOVERNMENT ON
THEIR POLICIES, AN ABSOLUTE
RIGHT TO GO OUT THERE AND MAKE
SURE THAT YOUR VOICES ARE HEARD.
YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO
OUT THERE AND VIOLATE SOMEBODY
ELSE'S RIGHT OF PRIVATE
PROPERTY, BURN THEIR BUSINESSES,
DESTROY EVERYTHING THEY'VE BUILT
UP.
>> ALSO AT THE CAPITOL, GOVERNOR
TONY EVERS WANTS TO GIVE EVERY
WISCONSINITE $150 WITH NEWS OF A
GROWING PROJECTED STATE BUDGET
SURPLUS, EVERS WOULD SPEND
$1.7 BILLION OF THE $3.8 BILLION
SURPLUS FOR THOSE CHECKS,
EDUCATION FUNDING AND CHILD CARE
HELP.
REPUBLICAN LEADERS WANT TO USE
THE SURPLUS FOR TAX CUTS IN
2023.
ELECTION YEAR POLITICKING?
EVERS SAYS NO, JUST GIVING IT
BACK DIRECTLY AND SOONER.
THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR IS GOING
TO SEE SOME SHARP ELBOWS COME
OUT IN THE RUN-UP TO THE
NOVEMBER ELECTION.
BUT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES IN A
PRIMARY RUN-OFF ARE ALREADY
GOING AFTER EACH OTHER.
FORMER MARINE, REPUBLICAN KEVIN
NICHOLSON, ANNOUNCED LATE THIS
WEEK HE IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.
HE WILL FACE OFF AGAINST FORMER
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR REBECCA
KLEEFISCH AND POLITICAL NEWCOMER
JONATHAN WICHMANN.
ANOTHER ROUGH-AND-TUMBLE BIG
MONEY RACE FOR GOVERNOR.
UW-MILWAUKEE POLITICAL SCIENTIST
MORDECAI LEE JOINS US WITH HIS
INSIGHTS.
MORDECAI, SO NICE TO SEE YOU.
>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.
>> SO THE PLATFORMS OF KLEEFISCH
AND NICHOLSON LOOK SIMILAR.
HIS PERHAPS A BIT MORE STRIDENT,
AND HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF THE
OUTSIDER, CALLING HER, FROM THE
QUOTE, SAME TIRED POLITICAL
CLASS.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF NICHOLSON
FIGHTING WHAT HE REGARDS AS THE
REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT?
>> WELL, IT'S PERHAPS THE ONLY
STANCE HE CAN TAKE.
AFTER ALL, HE CAN'T PUT HIMSELF
TO THE LEFT OF REBECCA
KLEEFISCH, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT A
WINNING FORMULA FOR REPUBLICANS.
SO HE SEEMS TO BE GOING FOR I'M
THE INSURGENT, I'M THE TRUMPIER
KIND OF GUY, I'M TO HER RIGHT,
AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, I
SUPPOSE WE AS VOTERS SHOULD
REMEMBER THAT WE BENEFIT FROM
CHOICES.
IT'S GOOD TO HAVE CHOICES.
BUT THAT THE CULTURE OF THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IS VERY
DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF THE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS MUCH
MORE ORGANIZED AND RANK AND FILE
SORT OF FOLLOW THE MAINSTREAM,
SO HAVING A KNOCK DOWN DRAGOUT
PRIMARY FIGHT LIKE THIS IS MORE
UNUSUAL THAN USUAL ON THE
REPUBLICAN SIDE.
>> NICHOLSON IS EVEN FIGHTING
WITH SPEAKER ROBIN VOS, WHO
URGED HIM NOT TO RUN FOR
GOVERNOR BECAUSE IT MIGHT HURT
REPUBLICAN CHANCES.
DOES IT SEEM UNFATHOMABLE TO GO
UP AGAINST ROBIN VOS?
>> WELL, ROBIN VOS IS TO A
CERTAIN EXTENT THE HIGHEST
RANKING MEMBER OF THE PARTY
WITHIN WISCONSIN.
AFTER RON JOHNSON IS IN
WASHINGTON.
SO IF HE SAYS I'M GOING TO TAKE
ON THE ESTABLISHMENT, I'M THE
TRUMPY KIND OF CANDIDATE, THEN I
SUPPOSE ROBIN VOS IS AS GOOD AS
ANY.
IT SEEMS TO BE HARD TO
UNDERSTAND WHERE THIS IS GOING
TO GO.
YOU'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO 1978,
WHEN CONGRESSMAN ROBERT KASTEN
WAS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR
GOVERNOR, AND HE WAS ENDORSED BY
THE PARTY, AT THE PARTY'S
CONVENTION, AND THEN SORT OF OUT
OF NOWHERE COMES A GUY NAMED LEE
DREYFUSS WHO HAD NEVER RUN FOR
ANYTHING, AND TO EVERYBODY'S
ASTONISH MENTD, DREYFUSS WON THE
PRIMARY AND WON THE
GOVERNORSHIP.
SO IF THERE IS A PRECEDENT ABOUT
THE OUTSIDER CHALLENGER OF THE
SORT OF THE ESTABLISHMENT, IT
HAS HAPPENED.
THERE ARE FAIRY TALES THAT
SOMETIMES HAPPEN IN POLITICS.
>> DOES THE PRIMARY FIGHT
PITTING KLEEFISCH AND NICHOLSON
HELP EVERS?
>> THERE ARE EXAMPLES IN
WISCONSIN POLITICS WHERE HAVING
A VERY TOUGH PRIMARY LEADS TO
THE WINNER OF THE PRIMARY LOSING
IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, BUT
THERE ARE JUST AS EQUAL NUMBER
OF EXAMPLES LIKE THE LEE
DREYFUSS ONE WHERE HAVING A
TOUGH PRIMARY THEN GIVES THEM
MOMENTUM TO WIN THE GENERAL
ELECTION.
SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S SORT OF
ANY PRINCIPLE HERE.
WHAT REALLY SURPRISED ME IS HOW
FAST THEY WENT AFTER EACH OTHER.
I LIKED YOUR COMMENT ABOUT
ELBOWS, WHERE HE SAID, I WAS
BORN IN WISCONSIN, AND IN A
SILENT WAY HE'S SAYING, SHE
WASN'T BORN IN WISCONSIN, SHE
ONLY CAME IN WISCONSIN TO START
AS AN UNDERGRAD AT MADISON, AND
SHE'S SAYING, OH, HE REALLY
WANTED TO RUN FOR U.S. SENATE
AND NOW HE'S ANGRY SO HE'S
RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.
ON HER SIDE, I THINK THAT WAS A
BIT OF AN UNFORCED ERROR.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, IN PRE-TRUMP
POLITICS, WHAT A CANDIDATE SAYS
IS, I WELCOME SO-AND-SO TO THE
RACE, I WELCOME THE COMPETITION,
VOTERS BENEFIT FROM IT, I LOOK
FORWARD TO CONTRASTING OUR
QUALIFICATIONS, AND I'M
CONFIDENT I'LL WIN.
I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THE
THINKING WAS BEHIND HER COMMENT.
>> SO SPEAKING OF DONALD TRUMP,
OF THOSE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY
CANDIDATES, WHO'S GOT THE BETTER
CRED WITH TRUMP?
>> I THINK IT'S REBECCA
KLEEFISCH, BECAUSE SHE'S THE ONE
WHO'S STANDING BY THE MEMBER OF
THE STATE ASSEMBLY WHO WANTS TO
REPEAL THE CERTIFICATION THAT
JOE BIDEN WON WISCONSIN.
SHE EXPLICITLY SAID SHE SUPPORTS
HIM AND EVER SO VAGUELY
CRITICIZED SPEAKER VOS FOR
FIRING HIS AIDE AND TAKING AWAY
HIS COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IN TERMS
OF STYLE, SORT OF COMBATIVENESS,
I THINK NICHOLSON WOULD APPEAL
MORE.
I'M NOT SURE, I GUESS TO GET THE
ENDORSEMENT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP,
YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
OR SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE 2020
ELECTION THAT THE OTHER
CANDIDATE WON'T GO AS FAR AS
SAYING.
AND AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT SURE
IF THERE'S ANY FARTHER IT CAN
ALREADY GO.
>> MEANWHILE, BILLIONAIRE
RICHARD UIHLEIN IS BACKING
NICHOLSON WITH BASICALLY WHAT
SEEMS TO BE A SUM SUFFICIENT
FUNDING MODEL OR WHATEVER IT
TAKES.
HOW DOES THAT RATCHET UP THE
SPENDING IN THIS RACE?
>> WELL, MONEY IS THE MOTHER'S
MILK OF POLITICS, AND ESPECIALLY
IN THE TV ERA.
TV ADVERTISING IS THE THING THAT
REALLY COUNTS.
SO IF YOU WANT TO BE A SERIOUS
PLAYER IN A STATE-WIDE RACE,
YOU'VE GOT TO ASSUME YOU'RE
GOING TO SPEND 5, 10,
$15 MILLION, IN THIS CASE
PERHAPS TO WIN THE PRIMARY.
I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO BE
INTERESTING ABOUT THE SORT OF
DYNAMICS OF THIS PRIMARY,
THEY'RE BOTH GOING TO BE WELL
FUNDED.
BUT THE FACT THAT THERE'S A
PRIMARY MEANS THAT REPUBLICANS
WILL HAVE TO VOTE IN THE
REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR,
THEY CAN'T VOTE IN THE
DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY FOR U.S.
SENATE.
IF THERE HADN'T BEEN A PRIMARY
FOR GOVERNOR ON THE REPUBLICAN
SIDE, THEY ALL WOULD HAVE MOVED
OVER AND VOTED IN THAT AND
PERHAPS DISTORTED THE RESULTS OF
THE SENATE RACE.
>> WOW.
GREAT STUFF.
MORDECAI LEE, THANKS VERY MUCH.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
THANKS.
>> WE HAVE INVITED KEVIN
NICHOLSON FOR AN INTERVIEW ON
"HERE AND NOW."
AS WE CLOSE TONIGHT, WE REMIND
YOU TO LOOK FOR FULL COVERAGE ON
THE PANDEMIC WITH OUR COVID
CONDITION REPORTING AT
PBSWISCONSIN.ORG, AND ON MONDAY
LOOK FOR REPORTING ON AFGHAN
REFUGEES, AND ALSO HEAR FROM THE
JOURNALISTS ON CENTRAL TIME ON
THE IDEAS NETWORK MONDAY
AFTERNOON.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.