>> THIS IS A PBS WISCONSIN
ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.
>> PEN MEETS PAPER AS THE
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE RELEASES
ITS VERSION OF NEW DISTRICT
VOTING MAPS, MAPS SIMILAR TO THE
ONES THAT HELPED KEEP GOP
MAJORITIES IN THE CAPITOL OVER
THE LAST TEN YEARS.
ALSO, THE VACCINE EFFORT GOT A
BOOST THIS WEEK AS FEDERAL
OFFICIALS OKAYED EXTRA DOSES OF
THE COVID-19 VACCINE.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," WE
TALK WITH A PHYSICIAN ON THE
FRONT LINES OF VACCINE RESEARCH
AS COVID BOOSTERS ARE APPROVED
AND SHOTS FOR YOUNG CHILDREN ARE
ON THEIR WAY.
ROSS AND MCCOSHEN ARE HERE.
AND DONALD TRUMP'S CALL FOR SEAN
DUFFY TO GET IN THE RACE FOR
GOVERNOR.
WE LEARN WHAT PROBLEMS AT THE
PORT MEAN FOR WISCONSIN.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
OCTOBER 22.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIEND OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> LOTS OF ACTION ON COVID
VACCINES THIS WEEK.
THE FDA AND CDC HAVE APPROVED
ADDITIONAL BOOSTER SHOTS AND
VACCINES FOR CHILDREN ARE
EXPECTED TO BE APPROVED BY EARLY
NOVEMBER.
IN ANTICIPATION OF THAT, THE
BIDEN ADMINISTRATION RELEASED A
PLAN TO GET SHOTS IN THE
ARTICLES OF YOUNGER CHILDREN.
THE ADMINISTRATION REPORTS IT
HAS ENOUGH VACCINE FOR THE 28
MILLION CHILDREN IN THE FIVE TO
11-YEAR-OLD GROUP.
THE ROLL-OUT PLAN INCLUDES
MAKING THE VACCINE AVAILABLE
THROUGH DOCTORS AWS' OFFICES AND
SCHOOLS AND CLICKS.
WE ARE JOINED BY DR. WILLIAM
HARTD MAN WHO LEADS CLINICAL
TRIALS AT UW-MADISON.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT
BOOSTERS IN A SECOND, BUT HOW
KEY IS IT IN YOUR MIND TO GET
THIS YOUNGER AGE GROUP
VACCINATED?
>> I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT,
ESPECIALLY AS WE HAVE BEEN SO
INFECTED WITH THE DELTA VARIANT
AND THE DELTA VARIANT REALLY WAS
PREYING ON PEOPLE WHO ARE
UNVACCINATED.
THIS AGE GROUP OBVIOUSLY DID NOT
HAVE THE VACCINE AVAILABLE TO
THEM, SO WE SAW THE NUMBERS
BEGINNING TO REALLY INCREASE IN
TERMS OF INFECTIONS IN THIS AGE
GROUP.
AT ONE POINT THEY MADE CLOSE TO
30% OF ALL NEW INFECTIONS.
AND SO EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T
TEND TO GET NEARLY AS ILL OR DIE
AS OFTEN FROM COVID-19, THEY ARE
STILL ABLE TO SPREAD THIS TO
OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY
VULNERABLE PEOPLE.
AND SO GETTING THIS AGE GROUP
VACCINATED IS REALLY A KEY PART
OF GETTING THE PANDEMIC UNDER
CONTROL.
>> GIVEN THE RESISTANCE, THOUGH,
ON THE PART OF A CERTAIN SEGMENT
OF THE POPULATION ABOUT
VACCINES, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US
ABOUT THE SAFETY OF COVID
VACCINES FOR CHILDREN?
ú>> SO A LOT OF WORK HAS GONE
INTO FINDING THE OPTIMAL DOSE OF
THESE VACCINES FOR THE CHILDREN
SO THAT WE CAN REALLY HAVE THE
SAFEST VACCINES AVAILABLE.
AND SO THE PFIZER VACCINE WILL
BE A THIRD OF THE ADULT DOSE.
THE MODERNA WILL BE 50% OF THE
ADULT DOSE.
SO THIS LESSENED DOSE WILL
HOPEFULLY LEAD TO OVERALL
INCREASED SAFETY, LESS SIDE
EFFECTS SEEN.
THUS FAR IN THE CLINICAL TRIAL
DATA PRESENTED BY PFIZER, THE
NUMBER OF SIDE EFFECTS HAS BEEN
LESS AND THEY HAVEN'T SEEN ANY
OF THE SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS THAT
THEY SAW IN VERY FEW KIDS IN THE
TEENAGER GROUP.
>> SO YOU'VE BEEN DOING
PEDIATRIC TRIALS ON THE MODERNA
VACCINE.
WHERE DOES THIS POSSIBLY AND
PROBABLY RELEASE OF THE PFIZER
VACCINE FOR CHILDREN LEAVE YOUR
WORK?
>> SO WITH THE MODERNA VACCINE
WE'LL KEEP FORGING AHEAD.
WE WANT TO HAVE AS MANY VACCINES
AVAILABLE REALLY SO THAT THE
DATA CAN BE USED WORLDWIDE, SO
WE CAN HAVE THESE VACCINES
AVAILABLE TO KIDS ALL THROUGHOUT
THE WORLD.
MODERNA IS GOING TO BE A BIG
PART OF THAT.
THE AGE GROUP, THE FIVE TO
11-YEAR-OLDS, THE ENROLLMENT
PERIOD IS JUST ABOUT FINISHED
FOR THAT, SO THAT DATA WILL BE
INTERPRETED OVER THIS NEXT MONTH
OR MONTH AND A HALF, FOLLOWED UP
ON, MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS
SAFE AND THAT THE EFFECTIVENESS
IS DETERMINED AND THEN HOPEFULLY
BY THE 1ST OF THE YEAR A SECOND
VACCINE, THE MODERNA ONE, COULD
BE AVAILABLE TO THIS AGE GROUP
AS WELL.
>> AS TO ADDITIONAL BOOSTER
VACCINES NOW APPROVED, WHO ARE
THESE IMPORTANT FOR?
>> BOOSTERS RIGHT NOW ARE
APPROVED FOR ESSENTIALLY THREE
GROUPS.
SO THE OVER 65, THE MOST
VULNERABLE PEOPLE TO COVID-19.
THE PEOPLE 18 TO 65 WHO HAVE A
CO-MORBID CONDITION.
AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A JOB
THAT GIVES THEM A HIGH EXPOSURE
TO COVID-19.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT
THEY'RE FOCUSING ON GETTING
THESE BOOSTERS TO.
THE VACCINE INITIAL SERIES,
WHETHER YOU GOT JOHNSON &
JOHNSON, PFIZER OR MODERNA,
REALLY PROVIDES EXCELLENT SAFETY
AND EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST
HOSPITALIZATION, SEVERE DISEASE
AND DEATH FROM COVID-19.
BUT GETTING THE BOOSTERS INTO
THESE MORE VULNERABLE
POPULATIONS WILL REALLY IMPROVE
THE OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS OF THE
VACCINES AND CUT DOWN ON THE
NUMBER OF INFECTIONS THAT WE
SEE.
>> NOW, WE KNOW THAT THE FDA AND
CDC IS NOW ALLOWING MIXING AND
MATCHING OF THESE VACCINES AND
EARLY REPORTS SUGGEST THAT THE
JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINES WHICH
270,000 PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN
RECEIVED IS FAR LESS PROTECTIVE
EVEN WITH ITS BOOSTER.
SO DO YOU THINK BOOSTING WITH
AN mRNA DOSE SHOULD BE
RECOMMENDED FOR PEOPLE IN THAT
CATEGORY?
>> FOLLOWING THE DATA IT DOES
APPEAR IT WOULD BE VERY
APPROPRIATE TO FOLLOW UP THE
JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE WITH
ONE OF THE mRNA VACCINE.
THE DATA SHOWS THAT WHEN JOHNSON
& JOHNSON IS FOLLOWED UP WITH
PFIZER, ANTIBODY LEVELS
INCREASED BY 42 TIMES.
WITH MODERNA IT INCREASED BY 75
TIMES.
SO IT GREATLY ENHANCES THE
OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS AND
PROTECTION THAT THESE VACCINES
CAN CONVEY.
>> OKAY.
DR. HARTMAN, THANKS VERY MUCH.
WE KNOW THESE BOOSTERS ARE JUST
ROLLING OUT AS WE SPEAK.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK AND
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> THE GOP-LED LEGISLATURE
RELEASED NEW VOTING MAPS THIS
WEEK, PART OF THE PROCESS TO
REDRAW LEGISLATIVE MAPS
ACCORDING TO CENSUS NUMBERS TO
MAKE SURE EACH DISTRICT HAS
EQUAL POPULATION.
THE GOP-DRAWN MAP WOULD RETAIN
THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY, WHILE A
MAP DRAWN BY THE EVERS
COMMISSION WOULD NARROW IT AND
CREATE MORE COMPETITIVE SEATS.
TONY EVERS VOWS TO VETO THE NEW
MAPS.
ROBIN VOS SAYS REPUBLICAN MAPS
ARE FAIR FOR ALL WISCONSINITES.
THE LEGISLATURE PLANS TO PASS
ITS MAPS IN EARLY NOVEMBER AND
THE COURTS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY
HAVE TO SORT OUT THE DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN THE COMPETING PLANS.
NEVER A DULL MOMENT WHEN IT
COMES TO POLITICS IN WISCONSIN,
FROM NEW VOTING MAPS TO THE
INFLUENCE OF DONALD TRUMP IN
ELECTIONS PAST AND FUTURE.
WE JUST HAD TO PULL OUR
POLITICAL PANEL OF TWO TOGETHER
TO TALK ABOUT IT.
REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST BILL
MCCOSHEN IS HERE ALONG WITH HIS
LIBERAL COUNTERPART, DEMOCRATIC
SCOT ROSS.
THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR BEING
HERE AGAIN.
>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> WITH THE DUELING MAPS COMING
OUT FROM REPUBLICANS IN THE
LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR'S
PEOPLE'S MAPS COMMISSION, THE
COURTS WILL, AS WE SAID, ALMOST
CERTAINLY HAVE IT.
BILL, FIRST TO YOU.
WHAT DO WE THINK THE STATE
SUPREME COURT WILL DO WHEN IT
LANDS IN THEIR LAP?
>> WELL, I DON'T THINK THERE'S
ANY QUESTION, FRED, THAT IT IS
GOING TO END UP IN THE COURTS.
LET'S MAKE A COUPLE QUICK
POINTS.
ALL THE MAPS HAVE BEEN RELEASED
SO FAR, THE GOVERNOR'S PEOPLE'S
COMMISSION OR GOP MAPS OR EVEN
MOST OF THE MAPS SUBMITTED BY
CITIZENS GROUPS HAVE THE
REPUBLICANS MAINTAINING THEIR
MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE IN
BOTH HOUSES.
THERE'S NO WAY TO DRAW MAPS
WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT IN
CONTROL OF THE LEGISLATURE AFTER
THE 2022 ELECTION.
SO LET'S START THERE.
SECONDLY, IT'S COMMON IN
WISCONSIN FOR MAPS TO END UP IN
THE COURTS.
ONLY ONE TIME IN THE LAST FOUR
YEARS HAS NOT HAPPENED, IN 2011.
ULTIMATELY THE COURTS SAID THAT
THE MAPS THAT THE REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR SCOTT
WALKER APPROVED WERE FINE.
THEY HAD TO MAKE A COUPLE MINOR
CHANGES IN THE MILWAUKEE AREA,
BUT THAT WAS IT.
SO I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A
LONG, PROTRACTED BATTLE IN THE
COURTS ON THIS AND THERE'S A LOT
MORE TO COME.
>> SCOT, DO YOU THINK THAT THE
REPUBLICAN MAPS WERE, QUOTE,
FINE?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
WISCONSIN DESERVES FAIR MAPS,
BECAUSE WHEN WE HAVE RIGGED
MAPS, WISCONSIN PAYS THE PRICE
WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION,
HEALTH CARE, EQUALITY AND WAGES.
JUST TO NAME A FEW ISSUES.
THE FACT IS JUST LIKE TEN YEARS
AGO, REPUBLICANS WENT BEHIND
CLOSED DOORS WITH NO PUBLIC
INPUT AND PRODUCED THESE MAPS,
WHICH ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND
WHICH ARE UNLAWFUL AND WHICH RIG
THE SYSTEM IN FAVOR OF
REPUBLICANS.
ONCE AGAIN, IT'S GERRYMANDERING
2.0.
I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW
BAD THE REPUBLICAN MAPS ARE.
DANE COUNTY GREW BY 15% IN
POPULATION.
THE AVERAGE IN THE STATE WAS
3.6%.
UNDER ROBIN VOS'S MAPS, THE
ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATS CONTINUE WITH
12 SEATS IN DANE COUNTY.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY EXPANSION OF
POPOPOTENTIAL SEATS WHERE WE GRW
POPULATION FOUR TIMES WHAT THE
AVERAGE GROWTH WAS.
GOVERNOR EVERS IS GOOD TO SAY
THAT HE'S GOING TO VETO THESE
MAPS BECAUSE THEY'RE WRONG, AND
HIS PEOPLE'S MAPS COMMISSION DID
WHAT THE PROCESS SHOULD BE,
WHICH IS TRANSPARENT, FAIR AND
EQUITABLE.
I WANT TO ECHO WHAT THE DEM
LEADER SAID.
THE CONTEMPT OF THE REPUBLICANS
FOR DEMOCRACY CONTINUES TO AMAZE
ME.
>> QUICK COMMENT TO BILL AND
THEN I WANT TO MOVE ALONG.
>> THE INITIAL PEOPLE'S
COMMISSION MAPS WERE A CLEAR
VIOLATION OF THE VOTING RIGHTS
ACT, SHRINKING DISTRICTS FROM
SIX TO TWO.
EVEN LENA TAYLOR, LEADING
DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, SAID THAT
THEY WERE EMBARRASSING AND
IRRESPONSIBLE TO BE RELEASED.
THE PEOPLE'S MAPS WERE DRAWN IN
PRIVATE.
THEY FAILED ON EVERY MEASURE.
>> THERE IS SO MUCH TO TALK
ABOUT HERE AND IT'S GOING TO BE
GOING ON FOR A WHILE.
BUT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP THREW
FORMER CONGRESSMAN SEAN DUFFY
INTO THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR THIS
WEEK.
THERE'S SOME COMPETITION FOR YOU
FOR REBECCA KLEEFISCH.
>> WHOEVER DONALD TRUMP ENDORSES
WILL WIN THE PRIMARY.
REBECCA KLEEFISCH IS OUT FRONT.
SHE'S BEEN WORKING HARD FOR TWO
YEARS ON THIS.
BUT IF DONALD TRUMP ENDORSES
SOMEONE ELSE, WHO KNOWS, THAT
PERSON WILL INSTANTLY JUMP TO
THE FRONT OF THE LINE.
SO DONALD TRUMP CONTROLS -- HIS
SUPPORTERS CONTROL ALL OF THE
COUNTY PARTIES STATEWIDE AND
WHAT HE DID LAST SATURDAY FROZE
THIS RACE UNTIL ANOTHER
CANDIDATE EMERGES.
>> ARE YOU SAYING TOMMY THOMPSON
IS GOING TO THROW HIS HAT IN THE
RING?
>> I WOULDN'T RULE IT OUT.
I DON'T THINK HE'S CURRENTLY
CONSIDERING IT, BUT DON'T BE
SURPRISED IF THERE'S ONE FOR THE
THUMB COMING LATER ON.
>> WOW.
>> DONALD TRUMP JUST ENDORSED AN
88-YEAR-OLD GUY FOR U.S. SENATE
IN IOWA.
SO DON'T RULE IT OUT.
>> SCOT, THAT'S REALLY RIPE FOR
DISCUSSION.
BUT, SCOT, I WANT TO ASK WHAT
YOU MAKE OF DONALD TRUMP
REACHING OUT TO PLUCK SEAN DUFFY
FROM NEW JERSEY TO RUN FOR
GOVERNOR IN WISCONSIN.
>> LET ME JUST SAY THAT THE
TOMMY RUNNING FOR AN OFFICE IS
THE STORY OUT OF EVERY
REPUBLICAN CONVENTION SINCE I
MOVED HERE IN 1997 AND THAT WAS
WHEN HE WAS STILL RUNNING.
KLEEFISCH BEGGED TRUMP TO GET
INVOLVED.
SHE EMBRACED HIS BIG LIE,
DO-NOTHING APPROACH ON COVID.
SHE EVEN IS ENDORSING THE PLAN
-- IF SHE BECOMES GOVERNOR SHE
WILL SIGN A BILL THAT ALLOWS THE
LEGISLATURE TO OVERTURN OUR
ELECTIONS.
THIS IS A HUGE, HUGE SLAP IN THE
FACE BECAUSE SEAN DUFFY ISN'T
EVEN IN POLITICS.
HE SOLD HIS HOUSE IN WISCONSIN.
HE LIVES IN NEW JERSEY.
SCOTT WALKER HAS GROVELED AND
TRUMP'S FEET EVERY MOMENT SINCE
2016 AND WALKER'S KID IS WORKING
FOR KLEEFISCH AND HE STILL OUT
OF NOWHERE CAME AND SAID LET'S
MAKE SEAN DUFFY THE NOMINEE.
WHOEVER IS THE NOMINEE IS GOING
TO BE A RADICAL, OUT OF TOUCH,
EXTREME AND DANGEROUS TO THE
PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN.
>> I WANT TO GET TO THE MICHAEL
GABLEMAN INVESTIGATION INTO THE
LAST ELECTION.
IT'S OFF TO A FLYING START.
BUT, BILL, IS THE CRITICISM HE
IS GETTING FOR THE PROCESS JUST
PARTISAN BLOWBACK?
>> I WOULD HOPE THAT THE
GABLEMAN INVESTIGATION AND THE
HEARINGS AND HER REPORT FROM HER
ELECTIONS COMMITTEE WOULD MERGE
SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
THEY CAN'T BE ON TWO TRACKS.
IF REPUBLICANS WANT TO GET SOME
KIND OF OUTCOME, THOSE PROCESSES
HAVE TO BE MERGED.
THEY CAN'T BE SEPARATE.
>> SCOT, WHAT'S YOUR COMMENT ON
THE GABLEMAN INVESTIGATION?
>> BIDEN WON WISCONSIN.
EVERY INDICATION SHOWS IT'S BEEN
PROVEN TIME AND TIME EVEN.
EVEN TRUMP'S DOJ SAID IT WAS A
SECURE ELECTION.
THEY ARE EMBARKED ON A $700,000
TAXPAYER-FUNDED AND THE BIG LIE.
HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW ELECTIONS
WORK.
THE THINGS HE SENT OUT, THE
GOING BACK AND FORTH ON HIS
SUBPOENAS AND THEN FINALLY
COMPARING TWO REPORTERS AT
>> I'M NOT TELLING YOU THAT.
IF HE GOT RECRUITED, YOU KNOW, I
THINK THERE'S A POSSIBILITY HE
WOULD SERIOUSLY CONSIDER IT.
BUT I THINK HE WOULD ALSO DEFER
TO SEAN DUFFY OR JOHN MOCHO.
THERE WILL BE AN ALTERNATIVE TO
REBECCA KLEEFISCH BY THE 1ST OF
THE YEAR.
>> WE LEAVE IT THERE.
BILL MCCOSHEN, SCOT ROSS, THANKS
A LOT.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANKS.
>> THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU
RELEASED ITS LONG-AWAITED REVIEW
OF THE WISCONSIN 2020 ELECTION
TODAY.
THE AUDIT DID NOT FIND ANYTHING
THAT WOULD CHANGE THE RESULTS OF
THE ELECTION BUT MADE 30
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE
WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION
AND 18 FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO
CONSIDER AROUND ELECTION
PROCEDURES.
IN RESPONSE, THE REPUBLICAN
CHAIR OF THE JOINT AUDIT
COMMITTEE SAID, QUOTE, MANY OF
THE FINDINGS SHOW THAT WEC AND
ITS STAFF ARE NOT COMPLYING WITH
STATE STATUTES ON SEVERAL
FRONTS, FROM CLERK TRAINING TO
VERIFICATION OF VOTERS AND VOTER
REGISTRATION.
STILL, SENATOR ROBERT KOHL SAID
THIS AUDIT SHOWED THAT THE
ELECTION WAS LARGELY SAFE AND
SECURE.
DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLY MINORITY
LEADER GORDON HINTZ HAD THIS
RESPONSE.
THIS CONFIRMS THE ELECTIONS WERE
FAIR AND ACCURATE.
THE DISINGENUOUS LIES
REPUBLICANS HAVE PEDALED FOR 11
MONTHS BREED DISTRUST IN OUR
DEMOCRACY.
MEGAN WOLFE SAID WE'RE ANXIOUS
TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK
FOR WAYS TO IMPROVE THE
ADMINISTRATIVE FUNCTIONS SO
CRITICAL TO CARRYING OUT OUR
ELECTIONS.
HOWEVER, WOLFE ALSO SAID THE
REPORT MADE IT CLEAR LAST
NOVEMBER'S RESULTS WERE ACCURATE
AND NO WIDESPREAD FRAUD OF ANY
TYPE WAS DISCOVERED.
THE COMMITTEE WILL HOLD A
HEARING ON THE RESULTS OF THE
AUDIT.
ANOTHER PART OF THE
REDISTRICTING EQUATION IS
PRISONS.
THE POLITICAL REPRESENTATION OF
THE INCARCERATED, WHO ARE
DISPROCEPRONATELY BLACK GOES TOE
DISTRICT THE PRISONS ARE IN.
MARISA WOJCIK SPOKE WITH
EX-INCARCERATED PEOPLE ORGANIZED
TO UNDERSTAND PRISON-BASED
GERRYMANDERING.
>> WHY DOES THE CENSUS COUNTING
THE HOME ADDRESS OF SOMEONE WHO
IS CURRENTLY INCARCERATED AT THE
ADDRESS OF WHERE THE PRISON OR
JAIL IS LOCATED AND NOT WHERE
THEY LAST LIVED?
WHY DOES THAT HAPPEN?
>> WHAT HAPPENS IS IS THAT IN
THE STATE OF WISCONSIN YOU ARE
COUNTED AS -- YOU ARE COUNTED IF
YOU ARE INCARCERATED IN THE
FACILITY THAT YOU'RE
INCARCERATED IN.
SO THAT HAS BOTH HAD FINANCIAL
AND POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS TO
THOSE COMMUNITIES.
SO YOU GET MONEY ACCORDING TO
HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU'RE COUNTING
IN YOUR CENSUS, WHICH IS THE
MOTIVATION OBVIOUSLY FOR
COUNTING THEM THERE.
BUT THEN POLITICALLY WHAT YOU'RE
DOING -- AND THIS CENSUS IS A
GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT.
MILWAUKEE COUNTY HAS LOST 17,000
PEOPLE FROM ITS CENSUS.
ALL OF THOSE 17,000 PEOPLE, A
MAJORITY OF THEM, ARE
INCARCERATED IN OTHER PARTS OF
THE STATE.
>> JEROME, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN
FOR WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE THE
CORNERSTONE OF DEMOCRACY AND A
GUIDING PRINCIPLE OF REDRAWING
THESE MAPS, WHERE ONE PERSON
EQUALS ONE VOTE?
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WITH THE WAY
MAPS ARE DRAWN AND THE CENSUS
COUNTS THIS INFORMATION THAT WE
ARE TRULY HAVING ONE PERSON
EQUALS ONE VOTE?
>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE
EVEN HAVE PEOPLE IN OUR
COMMUNITIES, AGAIN, WHO ARE
TAX-PAYING CITIZENS WHO CANNOT
VOTE.
I THINK IT'S BEEN DESIGNED TO
IMPACT OUR COMMUNITIES THIS WAY
AND THERE'S NO WILL TO CHANGE
THINGS IN OUR STATE.
I MEAN, THIS IS NOTHING NEW.
YOU KNOW, I CAN RECALL, YOU
KNOW, GETTING OUT OF PRISON AND
SPENDING FIVE YEARS IN THE
COMMUNITY NOT FEELING THAT I WAS
A PART OF THAT COMMUNITY FOR THE
SIMPLE FACT THAT I COULD NOT
CAST A BALLOT.
THAT BOTHERED ME.
AND SEEING INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE
ABLE TO CAST BALLOTS FOR THE
FIRST TIME, HOW THAT R REJUVENAS
THEM.
GETTING YOUR VOTING RIGHTS BACK
IS A HUGE PART OF THAT
REHABILITATION, THAT REENTRY
PROCESS.
AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST FEEL THAT
THIS IS AN UPHILL CLIMB, BUT
WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT
AND DEMAND THAT CITIZENS GET
THEIR RIGHTS TO VOTE BECAUSE WE
ARE CITIZENS.
>> YOU CAN SEE THAT FULL
INTERVIEW BY GOING TO OUR
WEBSITE AT pbswisconsin.org.
IN ECONOMIC NEWS, WHETHER IT'S A
NEW CAR OR HOUSEHOLD GOODS, SUCH
THINGS CAN BE HARD TO COME BY
AND MORE EXPENSIVE TO BUY THESE
DAYS.
SHORTAGES RESULT IN HIGHER
PRICES AND ARE BEING BLAMED ON A
SUPPLY CHAIN CRISIS.
A SIMPLE VERSION OF IT GOES LIKE
THIS.
THE BROKEN SUPPLY CHAIN STARTED
WHEN THE WORLD AND ESPECIALLY
CHINA SHUT DOWN DUE TO COVID.
EVERYTHING BACKED UP.
WHEN CONSUMERS TURNED TO THE
INTERNET TO BUY STUFF, THERE
WASN'T ENOUGH CAPACITY.
BACKED UP SHIPPING CONTAINERS AT
PORTS TELL PART OF THE STORY.
WE TURN TO JAKE DEAN, DIRECTOR
OF THE GRANGER CENTER OF SUPPLY
CHAIN MANAGEMENT AT UW-MADISON.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> DID I GET THAT SIMPLIFIED
VERSION CLOSE IN MATERIALS OF
HOW THIS HAPPENED?
<!32768> YEAH.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO SIMPLIFY IT
DOWN TO FIVE OR TEN SECONDS,
THAT'S NOT BAD.
>> THANK YOU.
>> ESSENTIALLY MARCH OF 2020 THE
WORLD WENT INTO WHAT MANY SMART
PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE A
VERY BIG ECONOMIC CONTRACTION
FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF MANY
PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS.
THERE WERE RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT
COULD BE MADE.
THE SUPPLY CHAIN WENT THROUGH A
BIG CONTRACTION LET'S SAY IN
MARCH.
AND THEN FOR MANY PEOPLE NOT TOO
MUCH BEYOND THAT THEY REALIZED
THAT THE ECONOMY FOR THEM WASN'T
CONTRACTING.
AND I DON'T WANT TO GLOSS OVER
THE FACT THAT IT WAS VERY
DETRIMENTAL TO A LARGE NUMBER OF
PEOPLE AND I DON'T WANT TO SKIP
THAT.
BUT FOR MANY PEOPLE, THEY
REALIZED I'M STILL EMPLOYED, I'M
NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
MY HOUSE NEEDS SOMETHING.
I NEED A NEW COUCH.
I NEED SOMETHING, SOMETHING,
SOMETHING.
SO WE CAME OUT OF THAT.
AND I THINK WE DID ADMIRABLY
WELL IN THE EARLY PART OF THE
PANDEMIC, LET'S SAY THROUGH
2020, FALL OF 2020.
I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE THERE
WERE SOME LEVERS LEFT TO PULL
THEN IN TERMS OF BRINGING IN
SOME EXCESS CAPACITY.
BUT NOW WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION
WHERE THOSE ARE GONE AND THAT,
COMBINED WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER
KIND OF GEOGRAPHIC, GEOPOLITICAL
THINGS, HAVE MEANT EVERYTHING IS
IN THE WRONG PLACE AND THERE
ISN'T CAPACITY TO GET US WHAT WE
WANT.
>> HAS THE WORLD SEEN THE
MAGNITUDE OF THIS KIND OF BREAK
IN THE GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN?
>> NO.
NOT THAT I KNOW.
IT'S SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WOULD
SEE COMING OUT OF A RECESSION.
SO WHEN THE ECONOMY DOES
CONTRACT AS WE SAW IN THE LATE,
ECONOMY WENT INTO A BIG
CONTRACTION.
THEN IT EXPANDED, EXPANDED,
EXPANDED.
WE GOT TO THE PLACE WE ARE
TODAY.
WHEN YOU'RE IN A SITUATION LIKE
THAT, EVERYTHING KIND OF CAN
STEP UP INCREMENTALLY AND WE CAN
ALL SORT OF BE OKAY.
WHAT HAPPENED HERE WAS WE HAD A
CRATER IN EVERYTHING IN MARCH OF
2020.
A STEP FUNCTION BACK.
AND THAT'S THE SITUATION WE'RE
IN.
IT'S GLOBAL.
IT'S NOT CONFINED TO ONE
COUNTRY.
IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE.
>> SO THE SUPPLY CHAIN IS A
COMPLICATED MATRIX, BUT IS THERE
A PARTICULAR PAIN POINT RIGHT
NOW?
>> I THINK THE WHOLE THING.
IT'S ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.
I LIKE TO USE MATRIX.
SOME PEOPLE USE NETWORK.
I THINK SUPPLY CHAIN IS NICE.
IT'S NOT ONE HOP TO ONE HOP TO
ONE HOP.
IT'S A NETWORK.
>> SO WHAT HAPPENS TO CONSUMERS
OR THE SELLER OF GOODS IN ALL OF
THIS?
>> IT'S DIFFICULT.
I MEAN, SUPPLY CHAINS REACT TO
WHAT CUSTOMERS WANT, RIGHT?
SUPPLY CHAINS DON'T RESPOND IN A
VACUUM.
THEY RESPOND TO DEMAND.
CUSTOMERS AND SELLERS ARE JUST
KIND OF STUCK AT THIS POINT.
AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE.
I FEEL FOR PEOPLE PEOPLE SOME
PEOPLE AREN'T -- IT'S NOT
CONSCIOUS.
IT'S NOT BAD BEHAVIOR THAT WE
ARE NECESSARILY EXPERIENCING.
BUT IT'S GOING TO MEAN THAT
THERE ARE THESE SHORTAGES AND
THAT MEANS PEOPLE DON'T HAVE
THINGS TO SELL AND PEOPLE CAN'T
BUY THINGS THEY WANT.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE OVERALL
ECONOMY?
DOES IT PUT A DRAG ON THAT?
>> IT MIGHT.
I MEAN, CERTAINLY THE PROBLEM
THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IS
WHEN EVERYTHING IS CONSTRAINED,
SO I THINK WE'RE SEEING A LITTLE
BIT OF AN OVERALL REDUCTION IN
OUTPUT BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY
SHORTAGES.
IT'S NOT LIKE ONE SECTOR IS FINE
AND OTHERS ARE HAVING PROBLEMS.
WHEN YOU HAVE PROBLEMS IN
DEMOCRATIC TO THE SYSTEM AND YOU
CAN'T FIND CONTAINERS AND
SHIPPING ROUTES AND TRUCK
DRIVERS, THE WHOLE THING SLOWS
DOWN.
I THINK THERE COULD BE AN IMPACT
TO THE OVERALL ECONOMY.
>> WHAT'S THE EXPECTATION ABOUT
WHEN THE PROBLEM WILL EASE?
>> IF I KNEW THE ANSWER TO THAT
QUESTION.
WE'RE GOING TO BE WITH THIS I
THINK WELL INTO 2022.
WE HAD SOME MEMBERS OF OUR
ADVISORY BOARD A FEW WEEKS AGO
AND THEY WERE SAYING 2023, EARLY
2023.
IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF TIME
FOR THINGS TO NORMALIZE BECAUSE
WHAT'S GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS
IS SUCH A BACKLOG OF THINGS YET
TO BE MADE THAT THOSE THINGS
HAVE TO WORK THEIR WAY THROUGH
AND SEE WHERE WE COME OUT ON THE
OTHER SIDE.
>> WOW.
LOTS MORE TO DISCUSS ON THIS,
BUT THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR
EXPERTISE, JAKE DEAN.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR
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