>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> NEW CENSUS DATA BEGINS THE
EVERY-TEN-YEAR MAPPING PROCESS.
LOCAL OFFICIALS FIND THEMSELVES
IN A RACE AGAINST THE CLOCK TO
DO THE WORK.
AND FORT MCCOY WILL BE A LANDING
PLACE FOR AFGHAN REFUGEES WHO
WILL BEGIN AGAIN IN WISCONSIN.
GOOD EVENING.
I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THE
RUSH IS ON TO PRODUCE NEW
REDISTRICTING VOTING MAPS.
REFUGEES WILL ARRIVE IN
WISCONSIN.
WE'LL TALK TO A SETTLEMENT
SPECIALIST AND SETTLEMENT.
AND MARK POCAN AND MIKE
GALLAGHER GIVE THEIR
PERSPECTIVE.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> WHOMEVER DRAWS THE POLITICAL
MAPS WILL DETERMINE WHICH PARTY
HOLDS THE POWER IN WISCONSIN.
THE BATTLE OVER REDISTRICTING
STARTED YEARS OVER AND THE
LATEST CENSUS DATA IS FINALLY
HERE AND SO ARE THE LAWSUITS.
JOINING US NOW IS UW PROFESSOR
ROBERT YABLON.
>> GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> LATE LAST YEAR REPUBLICANS
ASKED THE WISCONSIN SUPREME
COURT TO CREATE A RULE GIVING
THE STATE COURT CONTROL OVER ANY
LAWSUITS RELATED TO
REDISTRICTING.
LAST WEEK, THE CENSUS DATA COMES
OUT AND IMMEDIATELY THE
DEMOCRATS FILED A LAWSUIT IN
FEDERAL COURT.
WHY DID EACH PARTY PICK THEIR
FAVORITE COURT HERE?
>> YOU KNOW, THESE ARE STRATEGIC
CALCULATIONS THAT EACH SIDE
MAKE.
THE REPUBLICANS LOOK TO THE
COMPOSITION OF THE WISCONSIN
SUPREME COURT AND FELT IT WOULD
LEAN A BIT IN THEIR DIRECTION.
THE DEMOCRATS MAY HAVE THOUGHT
THAT THEY WERE LIKELY TO GET A
FAIRER SHAKE IN FEDERAL COURT.
THESE ARE IMPERFECT JUDGMENTS.
WHO KNOWS REALLY WHERE YOU'D
RATHER BE BUT EACH SIDE HAS MADE
THAT APPARENT CHOICE.
>> YOU'VE CLERKED FOR TWO
SUPREME COURT JUSTICES IN RUTH
BADER GINSBERG AND SONYA
SOTAMAYOR.
WHAT DOES THEIR DECISION MEAN
FOR THE WHOLE PROCESS GOING
FORWARD FROM THE FEDERAL COURT'S
PERSPECTIVE?
>> SO THE CASE FROM WISCONSIN
THAT THE SUPREME COURT HEARD
ULTIMATELY WAS RESOLVED WITH THE
U.S. SUPREME COURT SAYING IT WAS
NOT GOING TO TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE
IN REINING IN GERRYMANDERING,
THEY SHOULD BE RESOLVED THROUGH
THE POLITICAL PROCESS.
WHAT YOU'RE GETTING NOW IS A
DIFFERENT SORT OF CLAIM SO AFTER
A CENSUS WE LEARNED THAT
POPULATIONS SHIFT.
THERE ARE SOME PLACES IN
WISCONSIN THAT HAVE TOO MANY
PEOPLE, OTHERS THAT HAVE TOO FEW
AND A MAP NEEDS TO BE DRAWN.
IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, THAT TASK
FALLS TO THE LEGISLATURE AND
GOVERNOR.
IF THEY FAIL TO DO IT, SOMEONE
NEEDS TO DRAW A NEW MAP.
SO EVEN IF FEDERAL COURTS ARE
NOT MONITORING PARTISAN
GERRYMANDERNG, THEY STILL HAVE
THIS JOB AND THAT'S WHAT THE
LAWSUITS BEING FILED NOW ARE ALL
ABOUT.
>> IN THE PAST, GERRYMANDERED
MAPS HAVE BEEN OVERTURNED FOR
REASONS OTHER THAN RACIAL
MINORITY MAKEUP, WITH
PENNSYLVANIA AND NORTH CAROLINA
HAVING TO REDRAW MAPS.
I'VE SEEN ANALYSIS THAT SAYS
GILL VERSUS WHITFORD MEANS THE
COURTS MAY BE LESS LIKELY TO
STEP IN ON AN APPEAL OF A MAP.
DO YOU AGREE?
>> IT'S HARD TO SAY IF THE U.S.
SUPREME COURT WILL ULTIMATELY
GET INVOLVED.
THESE ARE CASES ACTUALLY THAT
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO APPEAL
DIRECTLY FROM DISTRICT COURT TO
THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.
THERE IS NO INTERMEDIATE COURT.
THAT MAKES IT MORE LIKELY THAT
THE SUPREME COURT GETS INVOLVED.
WHETHER THE COURT ACTUALLY STEPS
IN IS GOING TO DEPEND ON THE
SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT ARE RAISED
AND HOW THE LOWER COURT RESOLVES
IT.
>> NOW, IN WISCONSIN REPUBLICANS
IN THE LEGISLATURE WILL DRAW
THEIR OWN MAPS AND GOVERNOR
EVERS WILL LIKELY VETO THEM.
GOVERNOR EVERS HAS SET UP HIS
FAIR MAPS COMMISSION.
THEY'LL INTRODUCE A MAP THAT
WILL HAVE NO LEGAL AUTHORITY
WHATSOEVER.
DO YOU THINK A COURT WILL PICK
BETWEEN THEM OR DRAW THEIR OWN
VERSION OR WORK FROM ONE OF
THEM?
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?
>> IT COULD BE ALL OF THE ABOVE.
IT'S CLEAR THAT THE FEDERAL
COURT WILL HAVE BEFORE IT
WHATEVER MAP THE LEGISLATURE
PRODUCES, WHATEVER MAP THE
COMMISSION COMES OUT WITH AND
IT'S A NEAR CERTAINTY THAT THERE
WILL BE OTHER ACTORS WHO JOIN AS
INTERVENEORS.
THE COURT WILL HAVE ALL OF THOSE
AT ITS DISPOSAL.
OFTENTIMES THE COURT WILL HIRE
ITS OWN EXPERT WHO IT WILL GIVE
GUIDANCE TO AND THAT EXPERT
MIGHT CREATE A WHOLE SEPARATE
MAP THAT'S MEANT TO BE ALL THE
COURTS AND YOU'LL HAVE
SUBSTANTIAL BACK-AND-FORTH ABOUT
ALL THESE OPTIONS.
>> DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE
FOR SOMEONE TO DRAW A MAP THAT
MOST PEOPLE WILL AGREE IT'S FAIR
OR WILL IT ALWAYS END UP WITH
WHO ENDS UP WITH THE PARTISAN
ADVANTAGE?
>> THERE IS PROBABLY NO SUCH
THING AS AN IDEAL DISTRICT MAP
EVERYONE WILL AGREE IS THE BEST
ONE.
IT'S PRETTY CLEAR SOME MAPS WILL
BE BETTER THAN OTHERS.
YOU WILL HAVE SOME MAPS THAT
MORE PEOPLE AGREE DO A BETTER
JOB WITH CRITERIA THAT WE CARE
ABOUT.
AND THOSE ARE TRADITIONAL
REDISTRICTING CRITERIA, THINGS
LIKE KEEPING COMMUNITIES
TOGETHER RATHER THAN DIVIDING
POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS OR
NEIGHBORHOODS.
HAVING DISTRICTS THAT ARE MORE
COMPACT, DISTRICTS THAT TRY TO
BE MORE COMPETITIVE.
WE KNOW THAT THESE ARE THINGS
THAT REDISTRICTING PLANS OUGHT
TO ACCOMPLISH.
YOU CAN BALANCE BETWEEN THOSE
FACTORS.
BUT WHEN PARTISANSHIP DRIVES THE
PROCESS AS IT HAS IN WISCONSIN,
YOU'RE LIKELY TO GET A MAP
THAT'S NOT IN GOING TO FAREWELL
WITH OTHER CRITERIA THAT WE
THINK ABOUT.
>> WE HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS
LEFT.
GIVE ME YOUR IMPRESSION OF THE
TIME LINE.
ARE WE LOOKING AT NEXT
APRIL WHEN CANDIDATES HAVE TO
START FILING PAPERS BEFORE THIS
IS RESOLVED OR COULD IT BE
BEFORE THEN?
>> IT COULD BE A BIT SOONER THAN
THEN.
APRIL WOULD BE THE VERY END ONCE
CANDIDATES HAVE TO START FILING
PAPERS.
THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT DISTRICTS
THEY'RE GOING TO RUN IN.
BUT THIS WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO
PLAY OUT.
THIS IS COMPLICATED.
IT'S GOING TO BE A WHIRLWIND FOR
THE COURTS.
I IMAGINE THEY MIGHT TARGET
SOMETHING LIKE MARCH AS A TIME
WHEN THEY WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS
FINALLY RESOLVED.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
TIME TODAY.
>> GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> WHILE ALL THE FOCUS ON
REDISTRICTING IS ON STATE AND
CONGRESSIONAL MAPS THERE IS AN
IMPORTANT STEP THAT HAS TO
HAPPEN FIRST.
VILLAGES AND CITIES HAVE TO
REDISTRICT THEIR OWN MAPS.
>> MOST OF OUR GROWTH OCCURRED
WITHIN THE CITY OF MENOMINEE.
>> THE DUNN COUNTY CLERK WAS
APPOINTED A FEW MONTHS AGO.
HE'S APPROACHING THE ONCE IN A
DECADE TASK OF REDISTRICTING
WITH A GOOD ATTITUDE.
>> I'M ENERGIZED BY THE PROCESS.
I LOVE DATA.
I LOVE MAPS.
>> THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS FOR
LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES HAS BEEN
SHRUNK TO AROUND 90 DAYS.
>> WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE
THAT NOBODY WILL LOSE OUT BUT
WE'RE DOING THE BEST WE CAN.
>> AS WITH JUST ABOUT
EVERYTHING, THE BLAME LIES WITH
THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC, WHICH
DELAYED THE CENSUS COLLECTION
LAST YEAR AND MEANT CENSUS DATA
CLERKS WERE EXPECTING IN
APRIL JUST CAME OUT LAST WEEK.
>> THE ONE HARD NUMBER WE HAVE
TO COMPLY WITH IS NOVEMBER 23.
>> KURT WITYNSKI IS WITH THE
LEAGUE OF MUNICIPALITIES WHICH
REPRESENTS CITIES, TOWNS AND
VILLAGES.
HE SAYS LOCAL REDISTRICTING
NEEDS TO BE DONE BY THE END OF
NOVEMBER SO CANDIDATES FOR THE
SPRING ELECTIONS KNOW WHICH
DISTRICT THEY'RE RUNNING IN.
A BILL WAS PASSED THAT WOULD
HAVE DELAYED REDISTRICTING FOR A
YEAR TO GIVE THEM MORE TIME, BUT
GOVERNOR EVERS VETOED THE BILL
SAYING IT WASN'T PROPER TO RUN
SPRING ELECTIONS ON OUTDATED
MAPS.
>> WE WERE UNABLE TO STAY BELOW
THE PARTISAN RADAR OR THE LENS
THROUGH WHICH EVERYONE
APPROACHES REDISTRICTING.
WHEN YOU USE THE WORD
REDISTRICTING, ALARM BELLS GO
OFF.
IN MANY CASES JUSTIFIABLY SO.
>> TEN YEARS AGO, REPUBLICANS IN
THE LEGISLATURE CREATED MAPS FOR
STATE ASSEMBLY, STAT AND
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS IN
SECRECY.
THEY MADE THEIR MEMBERS SIGNED
SECRECY AGREEMENTS AND PASSED
THEM.
THAT MEANT LOCAL LINES WERE
DRAWN AFTERWARDS AND HAD TO FIT
THE STATE LINES ALREADY IN
PLACE.
THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED AGAIN
IF NOT FOR THE VETO.
>> THE ORDER WAS MIEW IN MY
OPI-- MIEW INMY OP
MANIPULATED IN 2010.
>> WE SEE A LOT OF
MUNICIPALITIES ESPECIALLY
THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT HAVE
VERY STRANGE ELECTORAL WARDS.
>> DUNN COUNTY IS SPLIT BETWEEN
FOUR ASSEMBLY SEATS.
IT MAKES FOR SOME WEIRD LOCAL
DISTRICTS.
HE HOPES LETTING THE LOCALS DRAW
THEIR LINES FIRST WILL CREATE A
BETTER PROCESS EVEN IF THERE'S
NOT MUCH TIME FOR PUBLIC INPUT.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE
CONCERNED ABOUT IS FEEDBACK FROM
INDIVIDUALS WHO LIVE WITHIN THE
MUNICIPALITIES AND THE COUNTY.
>> I THINK THERE WILL BE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE.
EVERYONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE
ON THEIR TOES MOVING MUCH FASTER
THAN USUAL.
>> UNDER THE REDISTRICTING
PROCESS, COUNTIES DRAW THEIR
SUPERVISORY DISTRICTS AND THEN
LOCAL WARDS, HOPEFULLY WATCHING
UP WITH COUNTY LINES.
NORMALLY THAT TAKES FOUR MONTHS.
>> WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE OUR
60-DAY WINDOWS.
>> RANDY SCHOLZ' TEAM HAS A
DIFFERENT CONCERN.
THE COUNTY BOARD IS CONSIDERING
EXPANDING.
>> IF IT GOES TO 21, IT WILL BE
DRAMATIC CHANGES.
IF IT STAYS AT 15, NOT A WHOLE
LOT.
>> EVEN WITH THE TIGHTENED TIME
FRAME AND EXPANDED BOARD, SCHOLZ
SAYS THEY'LL BE READY.
>> PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT
WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE GOVERNOR
AND VETO.
I WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW AS FAR
AS CHIPPEWA COUNTY GOES, WE'RE
GOING TO GET IT DONE AND SPEND
THE TIME WE NEED TO TO GET IT
RIGHT.
>> WISCONSIN ATTORNEY GENERAL
JOSH KAUL ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK HE
HAS FILED A LAWSUIT SEEKING TO
REMOVE THE CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL
RESOURCES BOARD.
FRED PREHN WAS APPOINTED BY
SCOTT WALKER.
HIS TERM EXPIRED IN MAY BUT HE
REFUSED TO SIT DOWN.
REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE HAVE
REFUSED TO SCHEDULE A HEARING ON
GOVERNOR EVERS' NOMINEE, WHICH
GIVES PREHN THE CHANCE TO STAY
ON THE BOARD AND RETAINS
REPUBLICAN CONTROL OF THE BOARD.
A SECOND WALKER EMPLOYEE WHOSE
TERM EXPIRED IN MAY DID STEP
DOWN.
THE ISSUE CAME TO A HEAD IN THE
LAST MEETING WHEN CONSERVATIVES
AUTHORIZED A WOLF HUNT WITH THE
NUMBER DOUBLE WHAT DNR OFFICIALS
RECOMMENDED.
WE HAVE ASKED THEM TO TALK ABOUT
THEIR DECISIONS BUT THEY'VE
DECLINED OUR INTERVIEW REQUESTS.
HOWEVER, REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE
LEADERS ARE PLANNING TO HIRE
OUTSIDE LAWYERS TO INTERVENE IN
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S LAWSUIT.
NEXT WEEK, THE U.S. HOUSE IS
EXPECTED TO VOTE ON THE $1
TRILLION INFRASTRUCTURE BAND.
THE COMPROMISE BETWEEN DEMOCRATS
AND REPUBLICANS.
DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING FOR A
SEPARATE PLAN THAT'S MUCH LARGER
AND CAN PASS WITHOUT REPUBLICAN
SUPPORT.
TWO WISCONSIN CONGRESSMEN ARE
LOOKING AT THE BILLS AS ONE, BUT
WITH DIFFERENT RESULTS.
>> I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN
FOR MANY OF US IS WE DON'T WANT
TO JUST DO THAT PARED-DOWN
INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WITHOUT THE
PROMISE WE'VE HAD ALL ALONG, A
$3.5 TRILLION RECONCILIATION
BILL.
>> RIGHT NOW WE DON'T EVEN KNOW
WHAT'S COMING TO THE FLOOR NEXT
WEEK AND PELOSI IS TRYING TO
SEQUENCE ONE OR THE OTHER.
AND I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO
THINK OF THEM AS TWO BILLS.
IT'S ALL ONE GIGANTIC BILL THAT
MASSIVELY INCREASES FEDERAL
SPENDING.
>> THEY WILL NOT PASS EITHER
BILL BUT SET AN AGENDA WITH
DETAILS TO BE HASHED OUT IN
SEPTEMBER.
FORT MCCOY WILL RECEIVE REFUGEES
FROM AFGHANISTAN.
THIS WILL MARK MORE THAN 40
YEARS SINCE IT HOUSED CUBAN
REFUGEES.
TONY EVERS REACTED TO THE NEWS.
>> I GUESS I AM SYMPATHETIC TO
THE IDEA THAT IF YOU FOUGHT WITH
US, YOU SHOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR
THE SIV PROGRAM.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD
RELAX THE VETTING STANDARDS FOR
THAT PROGRAM.
SO AS WE MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE
ELIGIBLE FOR THAT PROGRAM, WE
ALSO NEED TO BE WORKING WITH
COUNTRIES IN THE REGION WHO CAN
TAKE THE BROADER POPULATION OF
REFUGEES THAT WE'RE NOT EQUIPPED
TO HANDLE RIGHT NOW.
>> WE HAVE OPEN ARMS HERE IN
WISCONSIN.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ALL OF
THEM THAT COME HERE ARE GOING TO
END UP IN WISCONSIN.
BUT WE HAVE A WONDERFUL GROUP OF
ORGANIZATIONS, LUTHERAN SOCIAL
SERVICES, JEWISH SOCIAL SERVICES
THAT WILL BE NATIONAL IN SCOPE
THAT WILL BE HELPING TO PLACE
THESE PEOPLE.
>> FORT MCCOY COULD RECEIVE
ANYWHERE FROM HUN D HUNDREDS TOW
THOUSAND REFUGEES.
ON NOON WEDNESDAY MARISA WOJCIK
SPOKE WITH DAWN BERNEY,
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF JEWISH
SOCIAL SERVICES OF MADISON THAT
HANDLES REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT.
THIS PROCESS IS HAPPENING MUCH
FASTER THAN NORMAL.
>> WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT WE
HAVE 24 HOURS TO AGREE TO TAKE
ON A CASE, INCLUDING WEEKENDS.
AND THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT FOR
US.
USUALLY WE HAVE A WEEK OR EVEN
LONGER TO MAKE THAT DECISION AND
THEN ONCE WE'VE AGREED TO TAKE A
CASE, WE'VE BEEN TOLD WE COULD
POTENTIALLY EXPECT SOMEONE IN AS
SOON AS 24 TO 48 HOURS.
IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HAPPENING
RIGHT NOW.
THERE SEEMS TO BE A BOTTLENECK.
THE PEOPLE COMING INTO FORT LEE
CURRENTLY IN VIRGINIA, IT'S BEEN
A VERY SLOW PROCESS AND THAT IS
WHY THEY ARE OPENING UP THESE
NEW PLACES TO BE ABLE TO HELP
BRING PEOPLE TO SPEED UP THE
PROCESS.
I THINK ONCE THEY GET SOME OF
THESE KINKS FIGURED OUT, IT WILL
HAPPEN RATHER QUICKLY.
IN A STATEMENT FROM THE
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE THAT SAID
THAT THESE NEW PLACES LIKE FORT
MCCOY WILL BE STARTING TO
RECEIVE REFUGEES IN SOMEWHERE
BETWEEN TWO TO FOUR WEEKS.
SO I'M HOPING THAT BETWEEN NOW
AND THEN WE WILL HAVE SOME
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, BUT I
STRONGLY SUSPECT THAT THE
PROCESSING HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE
ANYONE DECIDES WHO'S GOING
WHERE.
TYPICALLY, THERE IS A LONG
SCREENING PROCESS THAT HAPPENS
OVERSEAS AND SOMEWHERE BETWEEN
SIX TO SEVEN FEDERAL AGENCIES
ARE INVOLVED IN SCREENING
REFUGEES.
THE PROCESS BECAUSE OF THIS
CRISIS SITUATION, A LOT OF THAT
WORK IS NOW GOING TO BE
HAPPENING HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES.
AND SO WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW
LONG PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE AT
FORT MCCOY BEFORE THEY ARE
ALLOWED TO RESETTLE INTO THEIR
NEW HOMES.
>> AND SO BASED ON HOW QUICKLY
THIS IS HAPPENING AND THE LARGE
SCALE, HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS
FROM ANY OTHER RESETTLEMENTS
THAT YOUR AGENCY HAS HELPED
WITH?
>> THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT
BECAUSE WE EXPECT POTENTIALLY TO
BE ASKED TO RESETTLE A LARGE
NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THE SAME
TIME.
WE GENERALLY ONLY RESETTLE
HISTORICALLY ABOUT ONE FAMILY
PER MONTH.
SO WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT
CONSIDERABLY MORE.
WE MAY BE SEEING TWO OR THREE
FAMILIES IN A WEEK.
AND THAT WOULD BE A BIG CHANGE
FOR US.
>> SO CAN YOU DESCRIBE JUST THE
RESETTLEMENT PROCESS?
WHAT HAPPENS ONCE A PERSON OR A
FAMILY IS RESETTLED HERE AND
WHAT KIND OF FUNDING AND SUPPORT
IS AVAILABLE FOR THESE EFFORTS?
>> SO WHEN A PERSON COMES TO THE
UNITED STATES, WE ARE GIVEN, ON
AVERAGE, ABOUT $1,000 PER PERSON
TOTAL THAT CAN BE USED FOR THE
EXPENSES OF THE FAMILY.
SO OUR AGENCY DOES A LOT OF
FUND-RAISING TO HELP WITH --
BECAUSE THAT IS JUST NOT ENOUGH
MONEY.
AND OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO
FIND AN APPROPRIATE PLACE TO
LIVE.
FOR US, IT NEEDS TO BE ON A BUS
LINE.
AND WE ARE REQUIRED TO FULLY
FURNISH AND PROVIDE HOUSEHOLD
GOODS FOR THE HOME.
WE ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE A
PANTRY AND A REFRIGERATOR FULL
OF FOOD FOR ABOUT A WEEK, A
CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE MEAL, AND
THEN WE GO AND COLLECT THE
INDIVIDUAL OR FAMILIES FROM THE
AIRPORT.
AND ONCE THEY COME INTO THEIR
NEW HOME, THEN WE WORK WITH
THEM, PARTICULARLY FOR THE FIRST
THREE MONTHS, TO MAKE SURE THEY
GO FOR THEIR MEDICAL SCREENINGS
TO HELP THEM GET THEIR SOCIAL
SECURITY CARD, TO ENROLL
CHILDREN IN SCHOOL, TO ENROLL
PARENTS IN ESL IF THEY NEED
THAT, TO HELP WITH EMPLOYMENT.
SO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY
NEED SO THAT HOPEFULLY AS
QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE THEY WILL BE
COMPLETELY SELF-SUFFICIENT.
>> YOU CAN SEE THE COMPLETE
INTERVIEW WITH DAWN BERNEY BY
GOING TO pbswisconsin.org AND
CLICKING ON THE NEWS PAGE.
EVENTUALLY THOSE AFGHANS WILL BE
SETTLED AND WILL HAVE TO ADJUST
TO THEIR NEW LIVES.
FOR MORE ON WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT
WE TURN TO PAUL VAN AUKEN WHO
HAS WORKED EXTENSIVELY ON THIS
ISSUE.
THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
I WISH IT WAS UNDER BETTER
CIRCUMSTANCES, THOUGH.
>> LET'S START FIRST WITH THE
WORDS WE'RE USING.
THESE PEOPLE FLEEING AFGHANISTAN
ARE REFUGEES, BUT ONCE THEY'RE
SETTLED YOU PREFER TO CALL THEM
RESIDENTS WITH REFUGEE
BACKGROUND SAYING WE SHOULDN'T
BE REDUCING THEIR IDENTITY TO A
SINGLE THING.
WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU AND
YOUR TEAM?
>> THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST
THINGS THAT WE DECIDED AS WE
STARTED THIS PROJECT WORKING
WITH LOCAL RESETTLEMENT AGENCY
PARTNERS SO THAT WE COULD HELP
ESTABLISH THAT IDEA IN THE
COMMUNITY WHERE WE'RE WORKING IN
RESETTLING PEOPLE, THAT THEY ARE
NOT SOMETHING TO BE STIGMATIZED
AS FALLING INTO THIS CATEGORY,
BUT THEY ARE PEOPLE THAT WERE
FORCED TO FLEE AS REFUGEES, HAD
THAT STATUS AND HAD THAT
BACKGROUND BUT THEY ARE PEOPLE
FIRST AND FOREMOST WITH ALL
KINDS OF INTERESTING EXPERIENCES
AND STORIES TO TELL AND THINGS
TO OFFER.
>> NOW, YOU AND YOUR STUDENTS
HAVE BEEN STUDYING THESE
COMMUNITIES IN WISCONSIN FOR A
FEW YEARS.
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BE
SURPRISED TO KNOW OSHKOSH IS ONE
OF THE LEADING PLACES FOR PEOPLE
TO RESETTLE INTO WISCONSIN.
WHY IS THAT?
>> YEAH.
THAT WAS PART OF THE BASIS FOR
THE ORIGIN OF THE WHOLE PROJECT,
SORT OF CURIOUS SITUATION WHERE
THE CITY OF OSHKOSH IS THE NINTH
BIGGEST CITY IN THE STATE, OR AT
LEAST IT WAS, I THINK IT STILL
IS.
THE CENSUS NUMBERS JUST CAME
OUT.
BUT THE SECOND LARGEST PLACE OF
RESETTLEMENT IN THE STATE, AHEAD
OF MADISON.
SO THAT'S A PRETTY INTERESTING
PHENOMENON THAT HAS ITS ROOTS IN
RESETTLEMENT OF HMONG PEOPLE IN
THE '70s.
THE FOX VALLEY WAS ONE OF THE
FIRST, FIRST FAMILIES TO COME AS
HMONG REFUGEES CAME TO THE FOX
VALLEY AND THERE WERE
ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE
INTERESTED IN SPONSORING AND
HELPING AND THINGS MOVED ON FROM
THERE TO EVENTUALLY HAVING A
RESETTLEMENT AGENCY WORLD RELIEF
BE LOCATED IN OSHKOSH.
NOW THEY HAVE OSHKOSH AND
APPLETON OFFICES, SO THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE IS THERE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S MAYBE MORE
AFFORDABLE THAN OTHER PLACES IN
THE STATE, SO YOU ADD THAT ALONG
WITH THIS HISTORY OF WELCOMING
AND RESETTLING PEOPLE SO PEOPLE
KNOW HOW TO DO IT IN THIS AREA.
AND WORD OF MOUTH MEANS A LOT
BECAUSE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
PEOPLE THAT COME AND THEY'RE
RESETTLED TO SOMEPLACE THEY
DIDN'T CHOOSE IN THE UNITED
STATES BUT THEY FOLLOWED THEIR
NETWORKS TO PLACES THAT OTHERS
IN THEIR FAMILIES OR FRIENDSHIP
CIRCLES HAVE TOLD THEM THIS IS A
GOOD PLACE TO RAISE KIDS, FIND A
JOB.
>> ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU
STUDIED AND YOU CHANGED HIS
NAME, YOU CALL HIM JAWAD, IS A
FORMER AFGHAN TRANSLATOR WHO'S
BEEN SETTLED IN WISCONSIN.
WHAT CAN HIS EXPERIENCE TELL US
ABOUT WHAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE
COMING HERE MIGHT GO THROUGH?
>> YEAH.
HE'S -- LIKE SO MANY OF THESE
PEOPLE, THEY ARE AMAZING PEOPLE,
REALLY.
RESILIENT.
I THINK ONE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW
ABOUT RESIDENTS WITH REFUGEE
BACKGROUNDS IS IT'S LESS THAN 1%
USUALLY OF PEOPLE THAT ARE
DISPLACED BECAUSE OF WAR AND
VIOLENCE AND PERSECUTION THAT
EVER GET RESETTLED.
THESE PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH
SERIOUS TRAUMA AND A LOT OF RIG
RIGAMAROLE TO END UP BEING
PLACED IN WISCONSIN, WHEREVER
THAT MAY BE.
SO IT'S A HARD THING.
IN HIS CASE, THE REASON WE HAD
TO HIDE HIS IDENTITY, EVEN
THOUGH HE WAS SO WILLING TO TALK
TO US, SUCH A WARM PERSON.
WE WERE IN HIS HOUSE.
HE SERVED US TEA AND TREATED US
LIKE FRIENDS.
BUT IT'S THAT PEOPLE ARE
ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR HIM AND
WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM DEAD.
AND HE'S VERY, VERY WORRIED.
THIS IS A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN
WE ACTUALLY INTERVIEWED HIM.
SO NOW I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT
HE AND OTHERS LIKE HIM ARE GOING
THROUGH THAT ARE HERE ON SPECIAL
IMMIGRANT VISAS WHO ARE TREATED
LIKE -- PEOPLE IN THAT CATEGORY
ARE TREATED SIMILARLY TO PEOPLE
THAT COME AS REFUGEES, BUT THEY
COME BECAUSE THEY'VE GIVEN AID
TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
HE TOLD US THEN THAT HE WAS --
EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY
THINKING ABOUT HIS FAMILY THAT
WAS NOT WITH HIM IN THE UNITED
STATES.
SO THEY'RE DEALING WITH TRAUMA
OF ALL KINDS, BUT A GUY LIKE
HIM, LIKE MANY PEOPLE THAT WE
TALK TO FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD,
HAVE EXTENSIVE EDUCATION AND
EXPERIENCE.
THEY HAVE A LOT TO OFFER.
BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND
THAT THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH SO
HELLISH TRAUMA AND IT'S GOING TO
TAKE TIME TO READJUST TO LIFE
HERE.
BY THE TIME WE TALKED TO HIM
AFTER BEING HERE FIVE YEARS HE
OWNED A HOME, HAD A STEADY JOB,
HAD ENROLLED IN A FOUR-YEAR
UNIVERSITY WITH PLANS TO GET A
MASTER'S AND MAYBE EVEN A PH.D.
THAT IS NOT UNUSUAL.
THESE ARE OFTEN QUITE HIGHLY
EDUCATED PEOPLE THAT SOMETIMES
TAKE A STEP DOWN WHEN THEY COME
HERE.
THEY HAVE A LOT MORE TO OFFER IN
A LOT OF CASES THAN THE
OPPORTUNITIES THEY'RE GIVEN
PARTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T
QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT A REFUGEE
IS OR WHY PEOPLE LIKE HIM HAVE
ENDED UP IN WISCONSIN.
SO HOPEFULLY PEOPLE CAN BECOME
MORE AWARE OF THAT, ESPECIALLY
WITH THIS RELATIVE DELUGE OF
PEOPLE THAT WE MAY SOON BE
SEEING IN WISCONSIN THAT ARE
GOING TO NEED EXTRA, EXTRA HELP
AND COMPASSION AND INTEREST.
>> WE HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS
LEFT, BUT I WANT YOU TO BRIEFLY
ANSWER, THE IDEA OF ASSIMILATION
AND AMERICA AS A MELTING POT, IS
THAT STILL RELEVANT TODAY?
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR PEOPLE
COMING HERE, TO STILL RETAIN
THEIR OWN IDENTITY?
>> YEAH.
I THINK ONE THING THAT'S BEEN
REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT FOR
THE MOST PART PEOPLE -- WE
INTERVIEWED AND/OR SURVEYED OVER
100 PEOPLE WITH REFUGEE
BACKGROUNDS SO FAR.
MOST OF THEM HAVE EXPRESSED
POSITIVITY ABOUT HOW THEY WERE
WELCOMED HERE, BUT PEOPLE DON'T
REALLY UNDERSTAND OUR CULTURE
AND YES TO THE QUESTION OF, YOU
KNOW, DO YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE
EXPECT YOU TO CHANGE YOUR
CULTURE.
SO ON THE ONE HAND, IT IS -- I
THINK IT MEETS UP WITH PEOPLE'S
EXPECTATIONS IN A LOT OF WAYS IN
TERMS OF BEING THE LAND OF
OPPORTUNITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT
COMES TO EDUCATION.
BUT IN OTHER WAYS, THEY FEEL
LIKE WISCONSINITES AREN'T
NECESSARILY -- AND NOT EVERYONE,
BUT THEY'VE HAD EXPERIENCES,
ENOUGH EXPERIENCES TO KNOW THAT
NOT ALL WISCONSINITES ARE VERY
WELL-EDUCATED ON WHO PEOPLE ARE
FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE
WORLD.
>> ALL RIGHT.
>> SO THAT THE INTERMINGLING
DOESN'T HAPPEN EASILY ALWAYS.
>> WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
WE DO WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH
YOU.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANKS A LOT.
>> FOR FURTHER COVERAGE OF THE
ARRIVAL OF AFGHAN REFUGEES TO
WISCONSIN, GO TO
pbswisconsin.org AND CLICK ON
THE NEWS SITE.
THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.