MAY BECOME A PROBLEM.
>> WE SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT HOW
THE BUDGET WOULD ROLL BACK SOME
OF THE PROVISIONS OF ACT 10.
THAT LAW WENT INTO EFFECT TEN
YEARS AGO.
IN THE MIDST OF ITS PASSAGE,
TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PROCESS PROTESTERS
CONVERGED ON THE STATE CAPITOL,
MANY OF THEM TEACHERS.
THE CROWDS WERE LIKE NOTHING
SEEN BEFORE, THE LARGEST
DEMONSTRATION IN STATE HISTORY.
IMAGINE PERSON THE PERSON IN
CHARGE OF SAFETY AT THE STATE
CAPITOL DURING THAT.
OUR NEXT GUEST WAS THAT PERSON.
FORMER CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF
CHARLES TUBBS, CURRENTLY DIRECT
TO HAVE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
FOR DANE COUNTY.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO TAKE US BACK TO THOSE 50
DAYS OF DEMONSTRATIONS, 30 OF
THEM YOU DESCRIBE AS INTENSE.
HOW DAUNTING WAS IT TO BE IN
CHARGE OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND
PROTECTION OF THE CAPITOL?
>> IT WAS A VERY HUMBLING
EXPERIENCE.
I MENTIONED EARLIER TO YOU THAT
I WAS IN WASHINGTON D.C. AREA
DURING 9/11, AND THAT WAS A VERY
HUMBLING BUT REWARDING
EXPERIENCE.
I LEARNED SO MUCH ON HOW TO
PROTECT THE COUNTRY AND WHAT WAS
TAKING PLACE AT THAT TIME.
MADE ME GROW UP EVEN MORE.
THE CAPITOL PROTESTS, ACT 10 WAS
ANOTHER MAJOR EVENT IN MY LIFE,
AND I KNEW I HAD TO ACT
RESPONSIBLE AND BE VERY CAPABLE
OF MAKING THINGS HAPPEN IN A
POSITIVE LIGHT TO SAVE LIVES,
REDUCE INJURIES AND REDUCE THE
DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, WHILE
ALLOWING THE GOVERNMENT TO
CONTINUE TO DO THEIR WORK AND
THE DISNS CITIZENS TO EXECUTE THEIR
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
>> YOU SAID YOU MADE A CONSCIOUS
DECISION NOT TO USE RIOT GEAR OR
PEPPER SPRAY.
WHY THAT DECISION?
>> I'M A KID OF THE '60s, AND
I WATCHED SOMETIMES -- MAINLY
WATCHED AND WATCHED HOW THAT
HAPPENED AND HOW UNFORTUNATELY
THE USE OF BATONS AND AT TIMES
TEAR GAS AND ALL THOSE TYPE OF
TECHNIQUES WITHOUT THE ABILITY
TO COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE
CREATED A REAL TRAGEDY SITUATION
WITH PEOPLE INVOLVED.
IN CONFIDENCE, COMPLETE CHAOS
AND TURMOIL.
PEOPLE WERE INJURED, LOST THEIR
LIVES, WENT TO JAIL, HAD A
TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON PUBLIC
SAFETY AND CITIZENS.
>> SO WHAT DID YOU DO INSTEAD
THAT RESULTED IN FEWER THAN 20
ARRESTS DURING THOSE DAYS AND
ONE SERIOUSLY-INJURED OFFICER?
>> WHAT I IMMEDIATELY LEARNED
GOVERNOR WALKER'S PLAN I BELIEVE
WAS ON A THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND
HE HAD CALLED HIS CABINET
TOGETHER AND INVITED ME TO THE
MEETING.
HE MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF WHAT
HE HAD PLANNED TO DO, AND MOVING
FORWARD I KNEW IMMEDIATELY THIS
WAS GOING TO CREATE A REACTION
WITH CITIZENS IN DANE COUNTY AND
THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW BIG.
I KNEW IT WOULD BE LARGE, BUT I
DIDN'T KNOW HOW LARGE IT WAS
GOING TO BE.
SO I PREPARED FOR THE ABSOLUTE
WORST AND PRAYED FOR THE BEST
AND I BEGAN MEETING IMMEDIATELY
WITH -- BECAUSE THE WORD GOT OUT
BEFORE I EVEN LEFT THE OFFICE,
WELL, THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE
THIS MASSIVE CHANGE IN
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, ET
CETERA.
SO I HAD TO IN ABOUT TWO AND A
HALF DAYS MEET WITH UNIONS,
SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, LAW
ENFORCEMENT, ELECTED OFFICIALS,
EVERYONE INVOLVED TO MAKE SURE
WE WERE ABLE TO POLICE THE
SITUATION WITHOUT LETING IT GET
OUT OF HAND.
AND, AGAIN, AS I SAID EARLIER,
LOSING LIVES, PROPERTY DAMAGE
AND INJURIES TO MANY PEOPLE.
>> WAS THERE POLITICAL PRESSURE
TO, QUOTE, CRACK SOME HEADS?
>> THERE WAS POLITICAL PRESSURE
FROM SOME OF THE ELECTED
OFFICIALS THAT I WAS NOT DOING
ENOUGH, I NEEDED TO REMOVE THE
PEOPLE FROM THE BUILDING,
BASICALLY I WAS IN A SENSE BEING
TOO SOFT AND I NEEDED TO TAKE
CONTROL OF THE BUILDING.
AT ONE POINT, I BELIEVE SOME OF
THE ELECTED OFFICIALS WANT TO BE
REMOVED.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR
TACTICS THAT KIND OF DIRECT
DIALOGUE AND EVEN I UNDERSTAND
HAVING PROTESTERS KIND OF POLICE
THEMSELVES WITH THESE KIND OF
PROTEST MARSHALLS AND THAT KIND
OF THING, DO YOU THINK THAT
THOSE TACTICS ON YOUR PART HAVE
IMPLICATIONS ON DISCUSSIONS NOW
AROUND POLICE REFORM?
>> YES, I DO.
AND YOU HAVE SPOKEN WITH A
NUMBER OF AGENCIES ABOUT THE
TACTICS THAT WE USED AND HOW
THEY WORKED SO WELL AND WHY THEY
WORKED SO WELL.
AND I BELIEVE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY
WHAT WE'RE FACING WITH SOMEONE
WHO HAS A NUMBER OF ISSUES
FACING THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW,
IT IS THE TECHNIQUE THAT MUST BE
USED TO REGAIN ORDER AND ALSO
ALLOW PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
EXPRESS THEMSELVES.
>> SO WITH ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT,
DO YOU THINK SUCH DEMONSTRATIONS
COULD, DESPITE DELIBERATE
DE-ESCALATION MEASURES ON YOUR
PART AND THE PART OF OTHER
OFFICERS THAT YOU COMMANDED, DO
YOU THINK THIS COULD BE MANAGED
THE SAME WAY IN TODAY'S CLIMATE,
ESPECIALLY AFTER WHAT WE SAW
JANUARY 6 IN THE NATION'S
CAPITOL?
>> I DO.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT
COMPARING THE TWO INCIDENTS,
BECAUSE THEY WERE TOTALLY
DIFFERENT.
I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY THERE TO
REALLY GET OUT AND REACHED OUT
TO THE PEOPLE AND BRING ABOUT
WHAT I THOUGHT A POSITIVE CHANGE
ON HOW THEY WERE GOING TO BE
ABLE TO EXECUTE THEIR
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
LINES OF COMMUNICATION MIGHT BE
OPEN AND REMAIN DIFFICULT NO -- REMAIN
DIFFICULT NO MATTER HOW
DIFFICULT THINGS GET.
IF YOU CLOSE OFF THE LINES OF
COMMUNICATION, YOU'RE GOING TO
LOSE AND LOSE BIG TIME.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
CHARLES TUBBS, THANKS VERY MUCH