EFFORTS IN THE SENATE AS WELL AS
THE MOUNTING POWER STRUGGLES
THERE WITH MICHAEL WAGNER,
PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AT
UW-MADISON ADD EXPERT ON
AMERICAN POLITICS AND POLITICAL
BEHAVIOR.
THE SENATE WILL NOT VOTE TO
CONVICT PRESIDENT TRUMP.
CAN MOST REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS
SIMPLY PUT WHAT HAPPENED JANUARY
6 IN THE REAR VIEW, DO YOU
THINK?
>> I THINK THAT'S THEIR GOAL AND
I THINK THAT'S THEIR HOPE.
WHETHER VOTERS CONTINUE TO HAVE
A LONG MEMORY ABOUT THE COUP
ATTEMPT, WHICH IS WHAT THE
UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS IS NOW
CALLING IT, REMAINS TO BE SEEN.
SO THERE MAY BE A PRICE TO PAY
WITH VOTERS, BUT IT DOES NOT
APPEAR THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH
REPUBLICANS TO CONVICT THE
PRESIDENT IN THE SENATE.
>> HOW FORMIDABLE IS DONALD
TRUMP POLITICALLY, EVEN AFTER
HIS SUPPORTERS VIOLENTLY
ATTACKED THE CAPITOL?
>> WELL, HE DOES NOT SEEM TO
HAVE THE EXACT SAME PULL THAT HE
HAD ON THE PARTY WHILE HE WAS
PRESIDENT AND LONGER HE IS OUT
OF THE LIMELIGHT AND ES PECIAL
LIVE THE LONGER THAT HE'S OFF OF
SOCIAL IMMEDIATE YARKS THE HARD
-- IMMEDIATE YARKS THE MEDIA, THE HARDER IT IS FOR
HIM TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF REPUBLICANS
WHO DON'T WANT TO CROSS HIM
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO UPSET
THE CORE BASE OF SUPPORTERS THAT
THE FORMER PRESIDENT CONTINUES
TO CARRY WITH HIM.
SO IT'S AN OPEN QUESTION.
I WOULD SAY THE -- WOULDN'T SAY THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IS IN A CIVIL
WAR, BUT IN A STRUGGLE FOR THEIR
FUTURE.
>> AS TO CON CON CONSPIRACY THEORIES
LIESK QANON, ARE THEY QUIETED
NOW OR JUST REGROUPING, DIEWFNG?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
OFTENTIMES WHEN A CONSPIRACY
GROUP HAS THE THING THEY SAID
WAS GOING TO HAPPEN FAIL, OFTEN
YOU WOULD THINK, WELL, THAT'S
GOT TO BE THE END OF THE
CONSPIRACY.
BUT USUALLY THE CONSPIREORS FIND
A WAY TO BELIEVE THERE'S SOME
OTHER REASON FOR WHY THE THING
THEY PREDICTED DIDN'T HAPPEN AND
SOMETIMES REDOUBLE THEIR EFFORTS
TO CONTINUE THE BEHAVIORS THEY
WERE ENBANDAGED IN BEFORE.
SO THEY'RE REGROUPING AND
THEY'RE CERTAINLY IN DISARRAY,
BUT WE SHOULDN'T BE CONFIDENT
THAT IT'S OVER.
>> ALARMINGLY, THE FBI IS NOW
WARNING ABOUT THE CONTINUING
THREAT OF DOMESTIC TERROR
GROUPS.
HAS ALL OF THIS BEEN BUBBLING
UNDER THE SURFACE UNTIL IT JUST
BLEW INTO THE OPEN?
>> WELL, IT'S BEEN BUBBLING
UNDER THE SURFACE FOR A VERY
LONG TIME AND IT'S BEEN
EXPLODING OVER THE SURFACE FOR
THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS IN A LOT
OF RESPECTS.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS
SURPRISING THAT IT HAPPENED.
I THINK THAT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE
BEEN CAUGHT OFF GUARD THAT IT
WAS SO EASY TO STORM THE CAPITOL
ON THE DAY THAT THE HOUSE AND
THE SENATE WERE CONVENING TO
CERTIFY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE
VOTES.
AND IT'S STRIKING HOW IN DANGER
MANY OF OUR LEADERS, INCLUDING
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND SPEAKER
OF THE HOUSE, WERE IN.
THAT'S ALL DEEPLY DISTRESSING.
AND THESE CONVERSATIONS AREN'T
GOING TO BE GOING AWAY.
PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS FIND A
PLATFORM ON WHICH TO HAVE THESE,
ALTHOUGH DEPLATFORMING DOES MAKE
IT HARDER FOR THEM TO ORGANIZE.
>> HOW INSIDIOUS IS THE
CONTINUING BELIEF ON THE PART OF
SOME THAT THERE WAS WIDESPREAD
ELECTION FRAUD?
>> IT IS AN ABSOLUTE STAB IN THE
HEART OF A DEMOCRACY TO CONTINUE
TO MAKE THESE FALSE ALLEGATIONS.
IT'S A DECENTRALIZED ELECTION,
WHICH MAKES IT HARD TO ENGAGE IN
FRAUD WHEN SO MANY LOCALITIES
ARE IN CHARGE OF THE BALLOT
PRINTING AND COUNTING.
THERE WAS A COUNTING AND
RECOUNT.
THERE WERE MORE THAN 60
LAWSUITS, ALL OF WHICH TOLD US
THAT JOE BIDEN WON THE ELECTION
IN A FREE AND FAIR WAY.
ANYBODY WHO CAN'T SAY THAT IS
NOT INTERESTED IN THE PRACTICE
OF DEMOCRACY, BUT INTERESTED IN
THEIR OWN POWERS FOR THEIR OWN
REASONS.
>> JUST BRIEFLY, IS PRESIDENT
BIDEN'S CALL FOR UNITY IN THE
MIDST OF ALL OF THIS NAIVE?
>> IT DEPENDS WHAT WE MEAN BY
UNITY.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO HOLD HANDS
AND SING A SONG OF PEACE.
BUT IF WE CAN COME AROUND SIMPLE
FACTS, ELECTIONS MATTER, IF YOU
LOSE, YOU TRY AGAIN THE NEXT
TIME, NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE
RESULT AND PRETEND THAT IT
WASN'T REEFL, REAL, THEN THERE COULD BE
SOME HEALING.
>> ALL RIGHT.