STATE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO
RECOMMEND WHETHER TO CHARGE THE
POLICE OFFICER WHO SHOT JACOB
BLAKE SAID HE STRUGGLEED WITH
SEEING A BLACK MAN SHOLT SHOT IN THE
BACK.
WE SAW DOWN WITH FORMER MADISON
POLICE CHIEF NOBLE WRAY.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
APPRECIATE IT.
>> ARE YOU AT PEACE WITH THE
RECOMMENDATION YOU GAVE TO THE
KENOSHA DA NOT TO CHARGE THE
OFFICER WHO SHOT JACOB BLAKE?
AND, IF SO, WHY?
>> I WAS AT PEACE WITH COMING TO
THAT CONCLUSION, BUT I WOULD
NEVER BE AT PEACE WHEN A
CITIZEN, AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN
MALE, IS SHOT ON A CITY STREET
IN THE UNITED STATES.
>> BECAUSE A FRIEND OF THE BLAKE
FAMILY AND ORGANIZER IN KENOSHA
LAMENTED YOUR AND THE DA'S
DECISION SAYING THAT WE SHOULD
NOT LIVE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE AS
BLACK PEOPLE, QUOTE, IF YOU STEP
OUTSIDE, YOU'RE FAIR GAME.
SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE'S
SAYING.
>> I UNDERSTAND IT, AND IN SO
MANY WAYS.
AND THAT IS THE STRUGGLE.
BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND IT FROM A
-- YOU KNOW, A POLICE OFFICER.
POLICE OFFICERS, THERE ARE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN POLICE OFFICERS
FEEL THE SAME WAY.
I UNDERSTAND IT FROM A PERSONAL
STANDPOINT.
I DON'T -- I FEEL THAT WAY.
I HAVE -- LIKE I SAID, I HAVE
SONS.
NOW I HAVE GRANDSONS.
I FEEL THAT WAY.
IT IS LIKE THIS HEAVY WEIGHT
THAT SITS OVER US THAT IS KIND
OF PERVASIVE, THAT -- IT IS A
WEIGHT THAT THE JUSTICE SYSTEM
-- IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT HANGS
OVER BEING BLACK IN AMERICA.
>> UNDER ONE POLICE REFORM
PROPOSAL IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN, THE STANDARD FOR USE
OF FORCE WOULD CHANGE TO USING
DEADLY FORCE ONLY AS A LAST
RESORT.
WOULD THAT HAVE CHANGED YOUR
RECOMMENDATION HAD THAT BEEN IN
PLACE?
>> YOU KNOW, DON'T STOP SHOOTING
UNTIL YOU STOP THE THREAT.
I THINK THAT DOES DESERVE SOME
MORE DIALOGUE AND UNDERSTANDING.
I THINK BY INTRODUCING A LAW
THAT SAYS THE LAST RESORT WOULD
CAUSE US TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT
THAT.
IN MY REPORT, THAT'S THE LAST
THING I ENDED ON MY REPORT.
I SAID THAT WE STILL NEED TO
FOCUS ON THE SANCTITY OF LIFE.
AND WHAT I MEANT BY THAT IS JUST
THAT.
I DON'T THINK WE'RE DOING ENOUGH
IN THIS.
THE PARAMETER THAT'S WE HAVE TO
USE TO JUDGE THIS PUTS US IN A
FRAMEWORK WHERE WE DON'T HAVE
THE FLEXIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO
THINK OUT OF THE BOX.
NOW, OBVIOUSLY, THOSE THAT ARE
IN THE POLICING PROFESSION RIGHT
NOW WOULD PROBABLY PUSH BACK ON
THAT.
BECAUSE IT IS A TOUGH JOB.
IT IS TOUGH WHEN YOU ARE
EXERCISING AND USING DEADLY
FORCE, TO MAKE THAT IN A SPLIT
SECOND DECISION WITH ALL OF
THESE THINGS GOING ON.
BUT I DO THINK THE OBLIGATION
FOR US TO LOOK AT THIS AS A LAST
RESORT, BUT HAVE A FRAMEWORK, IT
WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT.
>> ON ANOTHER MATTER, AND
UNRELATED, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE
TO THE U.S. CAPITOL POLICE
BASICALLY LOSING CONTROL TO THE
TRUMP MOB, AS IT WERE, COMPARED
TO RESPONSE IN WASHINGTON AND
ELSEWHERE TO BLACK LIVES MATTER
PROTESTORS?
>> CLEARLY THEY WERE NOT
PREPARED.
CLEARLY THERE WAS A DIFFERENTIAL
RESPONSE.
EVERYONE THAT WATCHED THE
PROTESTS THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE
SPRING AND THE SUMMER,
POST-GEORGE FLOYD, SAW THIS.
BUT THE REALITY IS IS THAT THEY
DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH.
AND IT WAS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS
THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH.
>> SO YOU JUST DESCRIBED IT AS
PAINFULLY OBVIOUS.
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU
SAW THAT AND REALIZED THAT THAT
WAS HAPPENING?
>> MY REACTION WAS FROM AN
AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN THIS SOCIETY
IS WHY IS THAT HAPPENING THAT
WAY?
IT ALMOST APPEARED TO ME TO COME
ACROSS AS INTENTIONAL.
IT WAS SO OBVIOUS THAT THERE
WERE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE.
YOU HAVE A NATIONAL EVENT TAKING
PLACE.
BUT FROM A POLICING STANDPOINT,
I HAD MIXED FEELINGS, OBVIOUSLY.
I KNEW THAT THE OFFICERS THAT
WERE OUT THERE WERE TRYING THEIR
BEST.
THEY WERE TRYING THEIR BEST TO
DO IT.
SO I'VE BEEN IN THOSE
SITUATIONS, YOU KNOW, BEING
GIVEN MIFFLIN STREET ON
HALLOWEEN HERE IN MADISON, WHERE
YOU WANT TO PUT PEOPLE IN THEIR
BEST POSITION TO SUCCEED.
I DON'T THINK THE LEADERSHIP,
CAPITOL POLICE, PUT THOSE FOLKS
IN THE BEST POSITION TO SUCCEED.
AND WE'RE VERY LUCKY THAT MORE
DID NOT HAPPEN IN THIS WHOLE
THING OR PEOPLE WERE NOT HURT OR
POTENTIAL LOSS OF LIFE.
>> AS TO THE JACOB BLAKE
SHOOTING, NOBLE WRAY SAYS IN HIS
VIEW ALL OFFICERS IN WISCONSIN
SHOULD BE EQUIPPED WITH BODY
CAMERAS.
KENOSHA OFFICERS ARE NOT.
THE FULL-LENGTH INTERVIEW WITH
WRAY CAN BE SEEN