REFLECTIONS ON THE 20EU6 2020 VOTE BY
AUTHOR KATHERINE CRAMER.
THE POLITICS OF RESENTMENT
EXPLORED HOW IEWFERL RURAL WISCONSINITES
VIEWED THEMSELVES.
THE BOOK'S RELEASE NOT ONLY
COINCIDED WITH THE ELECTION OF
DONALD TRUMP.
IT LARGELY PREDICTED THE
CLASS-BASED IDENTITY POLITICS
THAT LED TO HIS PRESIDENCY.
WE CHECK IN WITH PROFESSOR
KATHERINE CRAMER FOR HER TAKE ON
THE CURRENT WISCONSIN POLITICAL
LANDSCAPE AND THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR BEING HERE.
>> IT'S MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.
>> SO TODAY POST 2020 PLEKS ELECTION
YOU SAY THE SHOCK OF THE
CLOSENESS OF THE ELECTION
SUGGESTS WE ARE STILL UNAWARE OF
THE DEPTH OF THIS RESENTMENT.
WHO WAS SHOCKED BY THE
CLOSENESS?
>> I THINK COMMENTATORS LIKE
OURSELVES, RIGHT, PEOPLE WHO ARE
CLOSE POLITICAL OBSERVERS WHO
TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING
ON IN THE ELECTORATE AND
NEVERTHELESS THE OUTCOME OF THE
2020 ELECTION WAS A BIT OF A
SURPRISE.
SO THERE ARE UNDER CURRENTS THAT
WE STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND.
>> WHO THEN IS RESENTFUL RIGHT
NOW AND WHY?
>> WELL, HONESTLY, I THINK IT'S
A BROAD SWATH OF PEOPLE.
SO IN MY 2016 BOOK, AS YOU
MENTIONED, I FOCUSED ON THE
RURAL VERSUS URBAN DIVIDE IN
WISCONSIN.
BUT IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE IN
RURAL WISCONSIN WHO ARE FEELING
RESENTFUL.
I THINK THE THINGS WE'VE
EXPERIENCED IN THIS STATE OVER
THE SUMMER WITH RESPECT TO RACE
RELATIONS UNDERSCORES THAT THERE
ARE PEOPLE IN OUR URBAN SETTINGS
WHO ARE FEELING QUITE RESENTFUL,
TOO.
THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE FEELING AS
THOUGH THEIR GOVERNMENT, THE
PEOPLE IN CHARGE, THE PEOPLE
MAKING DECISIONS DON'T
UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGES THAT
THEY'RE FACING.
AND MY GOODNESS, AFTER THIS
PANDEMIC I THINK THAT'S MORE
ACUTE THAN EVER.
>> WHO ARE THE CULTURAL ELITE?
>> THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT IS
THEY'RE THE PEOPLE WHO PUT THE
IDEAS OUT THERE FOR OTHER PEOPLE
TO CONSUME.
SO PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF, WHO
CREATE KNOWLEDGE AND COMMUNICATE
IT, PEOPLE IN THE NEWS MEDIA WHO
REPORT ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE
WORLD AND COMMUNICATE TO OTHER
PEOPLE.
BUT ALSO I THINK PEOPLE WHO
CREATE POPULAR CULTURE CONTENT,
WHETHER IT BE MOVIES OR
TELEVISION, THE BOOKS WE READ,
BUT ALSO OUR DECISION-MAKERS,
PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT, PEOPLE IN
BUSINESS, JUST THE PEOPLE IN
CHARGE WHO ARE MAKING IDEAS AND
COMMUNICATING THEM TO THE
BROADER PUBLIC.
>> SO WHY DO PEOPLE GET LEFT OUT
OF THE ELITE?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO
WITH ECONOMIC INEQUALITY.
I THINK JUST AS TIME GOES ON,
SINCE ROUGHLY THE EARLY '70s,
THERE'S JUST THIS INCREASING GAP
BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE
RESOURCES AND THOSE WHO DON'T.
AND THE CULTURAL ELITE, WE TEND
TO BE PEOPLE WITH RESOURCES.
AND THE WAY WE LIVE OUR LIVES,
HOW WE SPEND OUR TIME, WHERE WE
LIVE IS OFTEN VERY SEPARATE
PHYSICALLY, IN TERMS OF THE
INFORMATION WE CONSUME.
IT'S SEPARATE FROM PEOPLE WHO
DON'T HAVE RESOURCES.
SO WE'RE OFTEN NOT SEEING THEIR
LIVES.
>> YOU HEARKEN BACK TO THE
1970s, BUT HASN'T IT ALWAYS
BEEN THIS WAY, THIS KIND OF
SPLIT?
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
IF WE THINK ABOUT THE RURAL
VERSUS URBAN DIVIDE IN
PARTICULAR, YOU MIGHT SAY, YES,
EVER SINCE THERE WERE THINGS
CALLED CITIES, THERE WERE PEOPLE
IN THE CITIES AND PEOPLE
OUTSIDE.
BUT THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT
THAT HAS CHANGED HERE IN
WISCONSIN AND AROUND THE
COUNTRY, AND JUST EVEN IN THE
PAST TWO DECADES WE CAN SEE IN
WISCONSIN WITH RESPECT TO
POLITICS, THERE'S JUST AN
INCREASINGLY CRISPER DIVIDE
BETWEEN THE WAY OUR RURAL
COUNTIES ARE VOTING AND THE WAY
OUR URBAN COUNTIES ARE VOTING
AND THAT WAS CERTAINLY TRUE IN
2020.
EVEN THE CONTRAST BETWEEN 2016
AND 2020 SHOWS THERE'S A DIVIDE
IN WHAT PEOPLE WANT, WHETHER
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POLITICS OR
PERHAPS MORE GENERALLY THAN
THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S ALWAYS
BEEN THIS DIVIDED.
>> ISN'T THERE MORE KIND OF
VITRIOL NOW, EVEN VIOLENCE WITH
THIS DIVIDE?
>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE.
AND SO VIOLENCE, BUT IT'S SMALL
THINGS LIKE OUR ABILITY TO TALK
WITH ONE ANOTHER, RIGHT?
SO IN A RECENT MARQUETTE POLL,
ROUGHLY A THIRD OF THE WISCONSIN
POPULATION REPORTS NOT TALKING
TO PEOPLE, PEOPLE CLOSE TO THEM
IN THEIR LIVES, ABOUT POLITICS,
BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO
THESE DAYS.
AND SO I THINK THERE IS MORE
VITRIOL.
THERE'S MORE RESENTMENT.
THERE'S MORE VITRIOL AND
UNFORTUNATELY MORE VIOLENCE,
TOO, YEAH.
>> WE TALK ABOUT ALL THESE
ISSUES AND WE TALK ABOUT
RESENTMENT, BUT THERE'S GOOD
CAUSE FOR THAT RESENTMENT.
IT'S NOT AS THOUGH PEOPLE LIKE
US THAT YOU SUGGEST THAT WE ARE
IN THE CULTURAL ELITE SHOULD
SAY, OH, GET OVER IT.
OF COURSE YOU CAN DO THIS IF YOU
WANT.
>> RIGHT.
NO.
THAT'S TRUE.
WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT,
NOT JUST BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE AND
VITRIOL, BUT BECAUSE THERE IS --
THERE'S A REASON THAT PEOPLE ARE
FEELING RESENTFUL.
AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT
IS THAT PEOPLE ARE FEELING THAT
THE CHALLENGES THEY'RE FACING
ARE JUST INSURMOUNTABLE, THAT
THEY'RE FEELING THAT THEY NEED
TO TURN TO VITRIOL AND VIOLENCE.
THERE ARE IMPORTANT SIGNALS FOR
US TO LISTEN TO.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
KATHERINE CRAMER, THANKS VERY
MUCH AND THANKS FOR YOUR W