RISKS IN WISCONSIN'S PUBLIC
SCHOOL AND COLLEGE CLASSROOMS?
AND WHAT ABOUT THE COMMUNITIES
THAT SURROUND THOSE SCHOOLS?
WE TAKE THESE QUESTIONS TO MALIA
JONES, AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE
EPIDEMIOLOGIST AND UW-MADISON.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> AS YOU KNOW, WISCONSIN JUST
SAW AN ALARMING UPTICK OF CASES
THIS WEEK WHICH COINCIDE WITH
THE START OF SCHOOL, K-12 AND ON
COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THESE KINDS
OF NUMBERS?
>> WELL, THEY CERTAINLY ARE
DISAPPOINTING, BUT I'M NOT
PRECISELY SURPRISED.
THE CONCERN WITH HAVING BOTH
K-12 KIDS AND COLLEGE CAMPUSES
RETURN TO CLASSES IN PERSON IS
THAT CLASSROOMS ARE VERY HIGH
DENSITY, INDOOR SETTING AND
THERE'S A LOT OF RISK FOR
COVID-19 TO SPREAD IN THOSE
KINDS OF SETTINGS.
>> AND SO THE RISK SPREADING IN
THOSE SETTINGS, WHAT ABOUT THE
RISK SPREADING BEYOND THOSE
SETTINGS INTO THEIR LARGER
COMMUNITIES?
>> YEAH.
AND I THINK THAT'S A GREAT
QUESTION, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE
THINKING ABOUT COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THE WAY
INFECTIOUS DISEASES WORK IS THEY
SPREAD FROM PERSON TO PERSON
THROUGH CLOSE CONTACT.
AND ONE OF THE FEATURES OF THIS
DISEASE IS IT'S MOSTLY SPREAD
THROUGH INDOOR AIR ENVIRONMENTS,
AS IT TURNS OUT, AND
OCCASIONALLY OUTDOOR AIR
ENVIRONMENTS AS WELL.
SO WHAT WE THINK ABOUT WHAT WE
-- YOU KNOW, A SCHOOL IS NOT A
BUBBLE.
PEOPLE GO TO SCHOOL AND THEN
THEY GO HOME AGAIN AND THEY
BREATHE THE SAME AIR AS THE
OTHER PEOPLE IN THEIR HOUSEHOLDS
AND THEN THOSE OTHER PEOPLE MAY
GO TO A DIFFERENT SCHOOL THE
NEXT DAY OR TO A WORKPLACE.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL
FOR DISEASE TO BE TRANSMITTED
FROM A SCHOOL SETTING TO OTHER
SETTINGS IN THE COMMUNITY.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT
THE TWO-WEEK QUARANTINE WILL
SEND THE NUMBERS BACK DOWN
AGAIN?
>> I DO HOPE THAT WILL ALLOW
THIS HUGE SURGE IN CASES THAT WE
HAVE SEEN TO SUBSIDE AND CURB
THAT EXPONENTIAL SPREAD.
BUT THE WAY THAT THE DYNAMICS OF
INFECTIOUS DISEASE WORK, IT'S
UNLIKELY TO COMPLETELY ELIMINATE
ALL THE DISEASE ON THOSE
CAMPUSES.
JUST BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE -- THE
DISEASE CAN INCUBATE FOR UP TO
14 DAYS AND ON RARE OCCASIONS
EVEN LONGER.
SO THE TWO-WEEK QUARANTINE
SHOULD GET MOST OF US THROUGH
THAT BIG SURGE, BUT, YOU KNOW,
IF PEOPLE HAVE INFECTED THEIR
ROOMMATES, WE WON'T SEE THOSE
CASES EVEN EMERGING FOR PROBABLY
THE SECOND WEEK OF THE
QUARANTINE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT
WILL HELP, BUT IT'S UNLIKELY TO
REALLY COMPLETELY RESOLVE THE
PROBLEM.
>> SOME STUDENTS MEANWHILE HAVE
RETURNED HOME BECAUSE OF THIS
QUARANTINE, WHETHER IN STATE OR
OUT-OF-STATE.
PRESUMABLY WE RUN THE RISK THEN
OF FURTHER SPREAD?
>> YEAH.
SENDING THE COLLEGE STUDENTS
BACK HOME AT THIS TIME I THINK
IS A REALLY RISKY PROPOSITION.
AND IN FACT WE HAVE SOME GOOD
EVIDENCE THAT SENDING COLLEGE
STUDENTS HOME IN THE SPRING
CONTRIBUTED TO OUTBREAKS OF
DISEASE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AS
THEY RETURNED BACK HOME TO THEIR
FAMILIES.
AND SO I DO THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT THAT STUDENTS REMAIN
IN PLACE AND IN PARTICULAR IF
THEIR PARENTS -- IF THEY'RE
GOING BACK TO LIVE WITH THEIR
PARENTS WHO MAY BE OLDER OR
HIGHER RISK, THEY SHOULD NOT
EXPOSE THEMSELVES TO THOSE
PEOPLE.
>> AS FOR K-12 SCHOOLS WHICH ARE
ALSO DRIVING THE NUMBERS,
SEVERAL HAVE GONE FROM IN-PERSON
LEARNING BACK TO VIRTUAL.
>> YEAH.
>> WAS THAT EXPECTED AS WELL?
>> YES.
MOST EPIDEMIOLOGISTS INCLUDING
MYSELF DID EXPECT THAT TO
HAPPEN.
EARLY ON THERE WAS A LOT OF HOPE
THAT KIDS WOULD JUST SOMEHOW NOT
BE VERY GOOD AT SPREADING THIS
DISEASE.
BUT THERE WASN'T A LOT OF HARD
EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT WAS
REALLY THE CASE.
AND SO I'M NOT SURPRISED.
BUT I AM OF COURSE REALLY
DISAPPOINTED.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
AND NOW WE LEARN THAT A
47-YEAR-OLD TEACHER DIED AFTER
BEING HOSPITALIZED WITH THIS
VIRUS.
>> YEAH.
>> HOW REAL DOES THIS MAKE THE
RISKS?
>> YEAH.
I THINK THOSE OF US WHO HAVE
BEEN PAYING REALLY CLOSE
ATTENTION WERE UNFORTUNATELY
EXPECTING THAT NEWS.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T MAKE
IT ANY EASIER TO SWALLOW.
IT'S REALLY A TRAGIC SITUATION.
>> IN A PERFECT WORLD FOR
INFECTIOUS -- INFECTION CONTROL,
HOW WOULD WE MANAGE GOING TO
SCHOOL?
>> WELL, LET'S SEE.
IN A PERFECT WORLD FOR INFECTION
CONTROL, I THINK WE WOULD REWIND
THE CLOCK AND DO A TRUE SIX-WEEK
SHUTDOWN AND ELIMINATE ALL OF
THE CIRCULATING COVID-19 IN THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN AND
NATIONALLY.
AND THEN WE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY
COVID-19.
IT WOULD REQUIRE INTERNATIONAL,
NATIONAL AND STATE COOPERATION
IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THAT.
AND THAT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN.
WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE THERE
IS CIRCULATING DISEASE AND
THERE'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO
CONTROL THAT IN A SCHOOL
SETTING.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR EXPERTISE.
MALIA JONES, THANK YOU.
>> YEAH.
THANK YOU F