- Welcome to "Noon Wednesday."
I'm special projects journalist,
Murv Seymour with "Here & Now" on PBS Wisconsin
filling in for Marisa Wojcik.
Today is June 23rd.
Concerns over voter access are high
across the country and right here in Wisconsin.
Yesterday, republican senators in Washington
blocked the "For the People" act,
a voter rights bill presented by Democrats.
On the same day, here in Wisconsin,
Republican lawmakers pushed through a
good number of voter legislation bills.
Some leaders in the faith based community
in Wisconsin are working
overtime to educate Wisconsinites about bills
they consider discouraging to voter access.
But Rabbi Bonnie Margulis is with the
Wisconsin interfaith voter engagement campaign.
She joins us to talk about concerns around fear of voting.
Rabbi Margulis, thank you for joining us today.
- Thank you, Murv.
Thank you so much for having me on
this is such an important issue,
and I really appreciate the opportunity to share with,
with your listeners and viewers about these, these bills.
- Okay.
Let's start with the, your reaction
to the "For the People" Act,
which was presented in the spirit of the late Congressman
John Lewis. It was blocked Tuesday in the us Senate.
It was calling for changes in redistricting,
redistricting and tighter election security and more rigid
guidelines for our campaign financing.
How is this not getting off the ground going to impact
voters, especially here in Wisconsin?
- Yeah, so the, the "For the People" act,
or S1 H1 is such an important act in
Congress. It will eliminate partisan gerrymandering,
it will take dark money out of politics,
it will require automatic voter registration,
which will make it so much easier for people to get
registered and be able to vote.
There's so many provisions in that bill that will just
facilitate people's right to vote.
And it's so important.
And it goes hand in hand with the John Lewis,
John Lewis voting, voting rights act,
which restores some of the protections for voting rights
across the state that were gutted in a Supreme Court
decision in 2013.
So those two bills together are so important to protect our
democracy.
And it was just so frustrating yesterday that on one hand,
the good news was that there was a, a hundred percent
agreement on the Democratic side to vote for the
"For the People" act.
But the Republican leadership just blocked the bill,
and it's so frustrating to see one of our major parties,
both nationally and here in Wisconsin and across the states,
really working to undermine democracy and underwrite
undermine people's right to vote.
And, you know, in the, in the Congress,
we really need to eliminate the filibuster because that's
just blocking so many important pieces of legislation that
are going to be so many so helpful to so many people on so
many levels, including voting rights.
So on the one hand,
it was a victory for democracy that the bill has advanced
this far and has gotten a a hundred percent support on the
Democratic side.
And now we need to work on a Republican leadership to see
the importance of protecting our democracy.
- So let's talk here in Wisconsin.
Assembly members sent over some voter rights bills to the
governor yesterday, even though he's expected to veto them,
which bills out there are the most concerning to you and
your organization?
- So there are more than 20 bills
that have been proposed in Wisconsin
state legislature that are going to undermine people's
ability to vote.
And this is part of a national trend that we're seeing in
states across the country. You know,
more so than here in Wisconsin,
the most egregious of these bills really make it difficult
for people with disabilities.
The elderly, people who are indefinitely,
confined, people in communities of color,
people in rural communities, to be able to exercise their
right to vote,
which I think is something we all can agree is something
that we value.
Every vote should count.
Every voice should be heard.
During the pandemic, we saw how important
it was for people to be able to vote safely,
and one of the best ways to do that was through
absentee voting.
And so many of these bills are now targeted at that very
process to make it harder for people to,
to vote. And to be clear,
this really does nothing to make voting safer,
to make it more trustworthy or more reliable.
Experts have said that our election in 2020,
across the nation was the most secure election.
And we already have very strong voter protections and
election protection laws here in Wisconsin.
So some of these bills really keep people who are in nursing
homes from being able to exercise their right to vote.
It makes it illegal for nursing home employees to assist
residents in voting or to suggest that they vote.
It requires nursing homes to inform family members whenever
special voting deputies are coming to nursing homes to
assist people in casting their absentee ballots.
It restricts who can deliver absentee ballots.
So somebody who's indefinitely confined who's in a nursing
home. Who's disabled who has trouble
getting to a polling place
currently can give their absentee ballot to a neighbor,
to a friend, to a family member to deliver their ballot.
This law would severely restrict who can deliver an absentee
ballot on behalf of somebody else.
It makes it a felony to deliver an absentee ballot for a
non-family member or for more than one other person.
A lot of these bills
come with penalties with felony charges.
They're really going to chill people's interest in helping
other people to be able to vote.
And that's just going to disenfranchise so many people in so
many different ways.
- Now, and there have been new bills addressing
voting rights drafted up as recently as last week.
Is this going to be the new normal on,
in the ongoing battle over voting?
- I'm afraid it is.
Some people, you know, take the position that, well,
we don't have to worry because the governor's going to veto
these bills, but these bills aren't going away.
This is going to continue to be introduced into our
legislature.
And, and there's part of
the purpose of continuing to introduce
these bills is to try to normalize a false narrative about
our voting system.
As I said,
our voting system is already incredibly secure and it
already has all kinds of barriers for people to be able to
vote. So to erect more barriers,
just disenfranchises people in, in really egregious ways.
Some of the other restrictions that are being introduced,
one of the great victories of 2020
was the use of Drop boxes.
And it just really helped people to be able to vote early,
to vote absentee,
to be able to find a dropbox near them and put their
absentee ballot in the dropbox.
There's legislation now being proposed
that restricts how many dropboxes a
municipality can have, makes it only to be available on
municipal property that can't be available in public parks,
which is a direct hit against the Democracy in the Park
program that was done so
success successfully in Madison in 2020.
And it restricts any municipality that has over 70,000
people can have up to three,
but only three additional dropboxes, which in a city,
the size of Milwaukee is just ridiculous.
It's going to make it impossible for a huge numbers of
people to be able to vote.
And I think it's not a coincidence that Milwaukee is not
only our largest city,
but has the largest community of color.
And they are going to be severely disenfranchised by having
such a limited access to drop boxes and,
and to the ability to vote absentee.
- And then we know that governor Avery is going to more than
likely veto these bills,
but what's the impact of the bills actually being introduced
and, and put out there.
What, what,
what kind of pressure is that putting on the voting process?
- Yeah, I mean, as I said, it really chills
people's interest in voting it chills
people's interest in helping other people to vote.
When the message gets out there, you know,
that there are penalties and, and,
and felonies and people don't always read to the end of a
news item to read that the governor vetoed these bills,
they just hear that they're out there.
And it makes for a lot of confusion.
And a lot of people not really knowing, can I do this?
Can't I do this? What's the law now?
And the more people are confused,
the more reluctant they are to even try to vote.
So it really, it has a very negative effect on,
on voter registration and voter turnout,
which sadly is the purpose of these bills in the, of,
of the false narrative that's being promoted.
You know, most Americans want
people to be able to exercise their
right to vote.
They want, they value freedom.
They value democracy,
they value a transparent and trustworthy process.
And when we hear lies and distortions and misinformation
about our voting process,
it just makes it harder for people to vote.
- Yeah. Who do you think benefits from this,
these types of legislation?
- Well, sadly,
this legislation is designed to
keep one party in power.
It, it is designed to keep the Republican party in power.
You know, there's a
principle at stake that the voters choose who
represents them, the rep,
the representatives don't choose who votes for them,
but with partisan gerrymandering,
with trying to dampen people's right to vote and people's
interest in voting,
this is all geared toward one particular party,
trying to keep their hold on power and rather than doing it
by working on the things that people care about,
like working on the economy,
working on expanding healthcare for,
for all, working on fighting climate change,
working on addressing systemic racism, instead of working on
those things, which is what people want to see happen,
instead they're working on making it harder for people to
vote.
And, you know, if they would look at their own policies and,
and priorities and align them more with what people want and
what people need,
and what's really going to help the people of Wisconsin,
then they wouldn't have to suppress the vote in order to get
people to vote for them.
People would vote for them because they believe in their
policies.
So it, this is really just a, a very undemocratic,
very anti voter political process.
That, that is really sad.
And it's really scary because it really
is an attack on our democracy.
- Now concerns over voter suppression go way back.
We know that.
How do you view how voting rights are being suppressed today
compared to the pre-civil rights era?
- It's really going back to the pre-civil rights era.
It's really doing everything possible to suppress the right
to vote.
And, and specifically for particular communities that
traditionally vote in perhaps traditionally vote democratic.
And so those votes are being suppressed.
And again, it's, it's,
it's been an attempt for one party to hold on to power and,
and to do it by suppressing the specific votes of specific
populations, like communities of color, the elderly,
the disabled, and you know,
some of these votes really kind of, or I'm sorry,
some of these bills,
some of their provisions really bring back the Jim Crow era
of, of a poll tax.
Some of these bills, if they get through, as they're,
as they're currently written,
require people who are indefinitely confined to get a
doctor's note, which requires a doctor visit,
which requires paying for that visit.
It's very unclear that insurance would pay for such a visit.
So that's an expense that somebody has to incur in order to
exercise their right to vote.
So that essentially is like a poll tax as were imposed
during the Jim Crow era.
So, you know, a lot of these,
a lot of these bills really are bringing us backwards in,
instead of moving us forward.
- I want to touch on something
you said a moment ago and so if
you can't get the votes to get rid of the lawmakers who are
coming up with what you consider to be suppressive
legislation, and it's what their constituents want,
how do you combat this seemingly constant effort to impact
voting?
- Well. Education is the best tool that we have
at our disposal, and I don't know who said it,
but somebody said sunshine is the best disinfectant.
So the more that people know and understand what's happening
in our state legislature,
the more that they can be effective advocates.
We really need people to be calling their
legislators today, and
telling their assembly members and their state senators that
we want to make voting accessible,
we want to protect people's right to vote.
We want to protect the rights of the elderly, of the
disabled, of the indefinitely confined, of communities
of color, of people in rural Wisconsin.
We want to really do everything that we can to protect our
democracy and not undermine it.
And so our legislators need to hear from their constituents,
and that's really the only way that we can make change.
So people need to be raising their voices.
So first educate yourselves on what the issues are,
what those bills will do,
what the impact will be on yourself, on your family,
on your community,
and then pick up the phone or send an email,
or go visit your legislator.
They're going to be on a recess soon for July 4th,
go visit them in their local offices and let them know what
you want them to be working on and what you want them not to
be working on.
And you don't want them to be working on
suppressing the vote.
- I've got to ask you this.
Are there any bills out there being presented at the state
or national level that you feel will benefit the voting
process?
- So again, on the national level, the For the People Act
and the John Lewis.
Sorry I want to get the name of the bill correct.
The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act.
Those are two national pieces of legislation that will
really counter all of these anti-democratic bills across the
country, including the ones in Wisconsin.
We really need to call Tammy, Tammy Baldwin and Ron Johnson,
and tell them to vote for these two bills nationally.
And here locally,
there are attempts to have bills that will protect people's
right to vote. And again,
you need to educate yourselves about what those bills are,
but right now, our focus is on combating these,
these really egregiously anti-democratic voter suppression
bills.
- Let's talk gerrymandering for a quick second.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it to be illegal.
How is it that it's still a major concern every 10 years
when redistricting occurs?
- Well, the Supreme Court did say that gerrymandering was
illegal, except that then in another decision,
they said that it was not the purview of the courts to deal
with partisan gerrymandering,
which is incredibly frustrating.
Wisconsin is one of the most partisan gerrymandered states
in the union.
And there's actually a bill before the legislature right now
to delay our redistricting process until 2023,
which would mean that these highly partisan gerrymander
districts would remain in place through the 2022 midterm
elections and gubernatorial election.
But there is also a bill before our legislature that would
require the jury, the,
the redistricting process to be non-partisan to be impartial
and to be done in a fair, open and transparent way.
So we really need to support that bill and to oppose any
bill that would keep our current partisan districts in
place.
So, yeah,
the voter suppression bills and the gerrymandering,
those are two huge issues that are really undermining
democracy.
- And for African-Americans the church has long been the
epicenter of political activism during the civil rights
movement. The church was often the meeting place.
Do you still feel it's that way today?
- Yeah.
Churches, mosques, gurdwaras, synagogues, houses of worship.
These are great places to get voting information.
We know that clergy are trusted messengers.
We know that it can be so powerful for your house of worship
to have voting registration drives,
to put out voter information,
to help people access absentee ballots,
to help people register.
So, yeah, we, we really, as ourselves,
as an interfaith organization,
we worked through congregations and clergy to help them to
help their congregations access their right to vote.
It's an incredibly powerful tool and resource that we have
in our communities to help people to vote.
And, you know, the anti-democratic forces know this.
One of the bills would restrict the hours and days in which
people can access voter registration and,
and absentee voting so that it couldn't be done for
instance, on a Sunday.
And we know that a lot of African-American churches on
Sunday,
that's when they have their voter registration drives.
It's when they help people to get registered and help them
get their absentee ballots and help them to get to early
voting places.
So again,
that's really an attempt to chill the African-American
communities, right to vote.
- All right. We've got time for one more.
So during our chat over the phone last week,
you said your organization doesn't care about who people
vote for.
Are you saying that your organization doesn't have a horse
in the race and that you don't care about political
outcomes?
- That's right. We are a nonpartisan organization.
We don't care who you vote for.
We just care that you are able to vote,
and we care that your elected officials are responsive to
your needs into your priorities and your values.
So our job is to help you to be as educated and informed as
possible about the legislation,
about the priorities in your legislature,
about what your elected officials care about,
what they prioritize and to help you to speak to them about
what you care about and what you prioritize.
So we want to give you the tools and the education that you
need to talk to your legislator,
whoever your legislator is and whatever party they belong
to.
- All right. Rabbi Bonnie Margulis.
we'll have to end it there.
Thank you so much for joining us today on this important
conversation.
- Great. Thank you for the opportunity.
I appreciate it.
- For information on "Here now" on PBS Wisconsin, visit
pbswisconsin.org.
Thank you for joining us on this "Noon Wednesday"
I'm Murv Seymour, have a great day.