>>> WELCOME TO ""NOON
WEDNESDAY," AND I'M MARISA
WOJCIK WITH "HERE & NOW" ON PBS
WISCONSIN.
TODAY IS MAY 26th.
YESTERDAY, A NEW RESOURCE WAS
LAUNCHED TO HELP PEOPLE CLEAR
THEIR PAST, CRIMINAL, AND COURT
RECORDS.
RESEARCH SHOWS HOW RECORDS LIKE
THIS CREATE BARRIERS FOR PEOPLE
LOOKING FOR JOBS AND HOUSING.
HOW DOES THIS WORK?
WHY HAS THIS PERSISTED FOR SO
LONG?
>> Reporter: MARSHA MANSFIELD
IS HERE, AND HER ORGANIZATION
SPEARHEADED THIS ORGANIZATION,
AND MARSHA IS JOINING US NOW,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
YOU HAVE AN EXTENSIVE BACKGROUND
IN WISCONSIN LAW.
WHERE DID THIS IDEA COME FROM?
WHY IS IT NECESSARY?
>> THIS IDEA WAS PART OF A
BIGGER IDEA WHERE A GROUP OF
LEGAL SERVICE PROVIDERS AND
EMPLOYMENT SERVICES PROVIDERS
GOT TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT SOME
OF THE BIGGEST BARRIERS TO
BETTER EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING,
EDUCATION, THAT REALLY IMPACT
PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN WHO ARE
EITHER IN THE LOWER ECONOMIC
RANGE OR AT THE POVERTY LEVEL,
AND THOSE ISSUES, WE BELIEVE,
ARE ROOT ISSUES TO BETTERING
YOURSELF ECONOMICALLY, AND WE
SET FORTH TO THINK ABOUT HOW
COULD WE EFFICIENTLY AND
EFFECTIVELY OVERCOME THE
BARRIERS, AND THAT CAME UP WITH
THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE ROLLED
OUT IN DANE COUNTY, BUT NOW
MOVING TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE AND
ACCESSIBLE STATEWIDE.
>> AND, SO, WHAT EXACTLY KIND OF
RECORDS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
HELP US UNPACK THAT A LITTLE
BIT.
>> SURE.
THE LIFT WISCONSIN TOOL WILL
EVENTUALLY HELP PEOPLE IN A
VARIETY OF AREAS, BUT THE TOOL
WE ROLLED OUT YESTERDAY,
SPECIFICALLY, IS DIRECTED
TOWARDS HELPING PEOPLE CLEAR
CRIMINAL RECORDS.
CRIMINAL RECORDS INCLUDE RECORDS
OF CONVICTIONS, BUT THEY ALSO
INCLUDE RECORDS OF ARRESTS, AND
OFTENTIMES, PEOPLE ARE ARRESTED
FOR THINGS FOR ARE
NOT CHARGED, OR THEY ARE CHARGED
FOR AN EVENT THAT DOES NOT
RESULT IN A CONVICTION, BUT
THOSE ARRESTS AND THOSE CHARGES
CAN SHOW UP ON PEOPLE'S CRIMINAL
HISTORY REPORTS, AND THOSE
CRIMINAL HISTORY REPORTS ARE
WHAT LANDLORDS AND EMPLOYERS USE
WHEN THEY MAKE BACKGROUND
CHECKS.
TWO-THIRDS OF EMPLOYERS IN THE
UNITED STATES
CHECKS WHEN CONSIDERING HIRING
SOMEONE, AND WHEN SOMEBODY HAS
RECORDS THAT SHOULDN'T BE ON
THOSE RECORDS CAN PRESENT
BARRIERS TO EMPLOYMENT, AND ALSO
TO GETTING HOUSING BECAUSE
LANDLORDS USE THAT SAME DATA
BASE TO PEOPLE AND RUN
BACKGROUND CHECKS WHEN THEY ARE
THINKING ABOUT RENTING TO PEOPLE
PEOPLE.
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A DATA
BASE, MANY PEOPLE A
WITH WISCONSIN'S CIRCUIT COURT
ACCESS DATA BASE KNOWN AS C-CAP,
AND ANYONE CAN GO ON THERE AND
SEARCH THE NAME OF SOMEONE AND THEY HAVE INTERACTED
WITH THE LAW, INTERACTED WITH
THE COURT SYSTEM, AND IT CAN BE
A GOOD THING TO BE ABLE TO SEE
WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT IT CAN
ALSO, LIKE YOU S USE TO
DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE.
WHEN YOU CLICK ON SOMEONE'S NAME
THERE IS, LIKE, A PROMPT THAT
COMES UP SAYING, YOU KNOW, BE USE THIS
INFORMATION.
ARE THOSE PROMPTS TO NOT
DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE NOT
OR LANDLORDS TO DETOUR THEM FOR
NOT DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM
BECAUSE OF THEIR PAST?
THAT'S RIGHT.
THERE ARE LAWS IN WISCONSIN THAT
PREVENT PEOPLE FROM
DISCRIMINATING BASED ON THINGS
SUCH AS ARREST AND CONVICTION
RECORDS, BUT WE, ASE, HAVE
AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE WHEN WE
SEE THINGS LIKE THAT, RIGHT?
SO EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE NOT
SUPPOSED TO DISCRIMINATE, IF YOU
HAVE A CANDIDATE WHO A
BACKGROUND CHECK AND THERE'S
NOTHING IN THEIR CRIMINAL
HISTORY BACKGROUND OR THERE'S
NOTHING ON C-CAP, AND THEN YOU
RUN A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK
ON SOMEBODY ELSE THAT HAS A
HISTORY, EVEN IF IT'S A HISTORY
OF A CASE WHERE CHARGES WERE
MADE, BUT THERE WERE NO
CONVICTIONS, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE
NOT SUPPOSED DISCRIMINATE
BASED ON THOSE TWO FINDINGS, YOU
CAN'T HELP BUT THINK, HUH, WHO
MIGHT BE A BETTER TENANT?
WHO MIGHT BE A BETTER EMPLOYEE? TELLS YOU TO PICK
SOMEONE, EVEN THOUGH YOU MIGHT
NOT CONSCIOUSLY BE AWARE YOU ARE
DISCRIMINATING AS A RESULT.
>> IS THERE ANY BENEFIT SUCH AS
JUST PUBLIC SAFETY TO HAVING
PEOPLE BE AWARE OF THESE RECORD
HISTORIES?
THEY ARE POSTED UP FOR A REASON.
IS THERE ANY ARGUMENT TO KEEP
THEM AROUND?
>> THERE IS A OUR
COUNTRY THAT YOU ARE INNOCENT
UNTIL YOU ARE PROVEN GUILTY SO
WHEN SOMEONE IS ARRESTED FOR
SOMETHING, THAT ARREST COULD BE
BECAUSE THEY COMMITTED A
BUT A POLICE OFFICER COULD
ARREST SOMEONE AND WRITE
SOMETHING DOWN THAT MAY HAVE
LITTLE OR NOTHING TO DO WITH
SOMEONE'S CONDUCT.
THAT IF IT STAYS ON
THEIR RECORD MAKES THEM LOOK
BAD, MAKES THEM NOT LOOK LIKE A
WORTHY CANDIDATE FOR EMPLOYMENT
HOUSING, AND IT SHOULDN'T.
THOSE SHOULDN'T BE USED AGAINST
PEOPLE, BUT THE RESEARCH SHOWS
THAT THEY ARE.
>> SO IFS HAS SUCH AN IMPACT
ON PEOPLE'S LIVES AND HAS BEEN
BACKED UP BY WHY ISN'T
IT JUST DONE AUTOMATICALLY?
>> IN SOME STATES, THESE KINDS
OF RECORDS ARE CLEARED
AUTOMATICALLY.
EVERY STATE'S A LITTLE
DIFFERENT.
THERE'S ABOUT STATES IN THE
COUNTRY THAT CLEAR CERTAIN
RECORDS AUTOMATICALLY.
WISCONSIN IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
WISCONSIN HAS SYSTEM THAT IS
PARTICULARY DISTINCT IN THAT IT
DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH CRIMINAL
RECORDS, WITH
EXPUNGEMENT, WHICH IS ANOTHER
METHOD OF GETTING RID OF
CRIMINAL RECORDS.
IN WISCONSIN, YOU HAVE TO BE
ELIGIBLE FOR EXPUNGEMENT WHEN
YOU SENTENCED FOR YOUR CRIME
IN ORDER TO ASK FOR IT ONCE YOU
FINISHED SERVING YOUR SENTENCE.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANY STATE IN THE
COUNTRY THAT HAS A LAW LIKE
THAT. LAWS ARE WHAT
PREVENT PEOPLE FROM BEING ABLE
TO CLEAR THEIR RECORDS AND GET A
FRESH START.
>> SO THIS PROCESS IS ALREADY
LEGAL.
SOMEONE WHO WAS ARRESTED, BUT
NOT CONVICTED, DOES HAVE THE
RIGHT TO REQUEST THEIR
RECORD BE CLEARED, AS YOU SAID,
NOT NECESSARILY EXPUNGEED, SO
BEFORE YOU RELEASED THISURCE, WHAT WAS THE AVENUE
FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT, AND WAS
IT WORKING?
>> ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, A IN TOWN, THEY HAD SOME PRO
BONO ATTORNEY WORKING WITH LEGAL
ACTION OF WISCONSIN AND THE
URBAN LEAGUE TO
EXPUNGEMENT CLINIC AT THE URBAN
LEAGUE ON A SATURDAY.
OVER 200 PEOPLE SHOWED UP FOR
THAT CLINIC, FOR THAT.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
THE FACT THAT ONE IN THREE
AMERICANS HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD
OF SOME SORT, THERE ARE MANY
PEOPLE OUT THERE
THINGS ON THEIR RECORD THAT CAN
BE CLEARED, BUT ONE, THEY MIGHT
NOT KNOW ABOUT IT AND KNOW THERE
IS AOR CLEARING YOUR
CRIMINAL HISTORY, AND SECONDLY,
IT'S NOT EASY.
YOU HAVE TO FILL OUT A PETITION.
YOU HAVE TO PRINT IT OUT.
YOU HAVE TO GET IT
FINGERPRINTED.
YOU HAVE TO SEND IT IN TO THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
IT IS NOT AN EASY METHOD OR
PROCESS FOR PEOPLE TO USE ON
THEIR OWN.S WHAT MAKES THE LIFT DANE
TOOL SO USEFUL.
PEOPLE CAN GO IN, THEY CAN
SEARCH FOR THEIR CRIMINAL
RECORDS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE TO BE
REMOVEED, THE FORM CAN BE AUTO
FILLED, THEY CAN SIGN IT ON
THEIR PHONE OR COMPUTER, AND
THEN THEE SENT TO IN
DANE COUNTY EITHER THE URBAN
LEAGUE OR LEGAL ACTION OF
WISCONSIN WHERE IT WILL BE
PRINTED OUT, THE PERSON CAN GO
THERE, PUT FINGER FINGERPRINTS ON
THE FORM, AND IT IS SENT INTO
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
WE ARE WORKING RIGHT NOW ON
ESTABLISHING SITES AROUND THE
WHERE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE
TO GO AND GET THOSE FINGERPRINTS
TAKEN.
PEOPLE CAN LEARN ABOUT THE TOOL.
THEY CAN USE THE TOOL.
THEY CAN GET
CLEARED MORE EASILY THAN IN
PRIOR TIMES.
>> AND SO THE TOOL
SPECIFICALLY WHAT LIFT DANE HAS
BEEN WORKING ON TO LAUNCH SINCE
2019, AND, ESSENTIALLY, IT IS A
WAY FOR SOMEONE TO EARTHQUAKELY
ACCESS THEIR INFORMATION AND
QUICKLY CONNECT TO EXPERTS WHO
CAN HELP THEM ALONG IN THISD HAVE IT DONE
QUICKER, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> THAT'S TRUE.
THE TOOL, AND WE CALL IT A TOOL
ANDN APP BECAUSE IT
DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DOWNLOADED
FROM THE APP STORE.
YOU CAN JUST GET IT ON A
WEBSITE.
EITHER ON YOUR PHONE OR ON A
COMPUTER.
WE ARE MAKE IT AS
EASILY ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE AS
POSSIBLE.
THEY CAN FILL OUT THE FORMS
THEMSELVES OR WITH A TRUSTED
HELPER, A LEGAL N
SOCIAL WORKER WHO IS WORKING
WITH THEM, AND IF THEY NEED
FURTHER HELP, THEY CAN REQUEST A
REFERRAL BY JUST HITTINGN THE WEBSITE.
>> SO HOW MUCH MONEY DOES IT
COST THE INDIVIDUAL, AND HOW
MUCH MONEY DOES THI
COST TO RUN?
>> THE GREAT THING IS THAT THE
INDIVIDUAL DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY A
PENNY, ALL RIGHT?
LIFT WISCONSIN PAYS THE COST,
AND THERE IS A COST OF ACCESSING
THE RECORDS FROM THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE DATA BASE.
THERE'S NO COST TO ACCESSING
C-CAP RECORDS, BUT WHEN YOU WANT
TO CLEAR YOUR RECORDS FROM THE
SAME DATA BASE THAT LANDLORDS
AND EMPLOYERS U WHICH IN
WISCONSIN IS CALLED WORKS, THE
WISCONSIN ONLINE -- NOT THE
ONLINE COURT SYSTEM, I FORGET
THE ACRONYM, BUT THE DEPARTMENT
OF JUSTICE DATA BASE THAT IS
USED TO PULL UPRRESTING
CONVICTION RECORDS, AND THAT
COSTS $7 PER RECORD, AND SO
RIGHT NOW, LIFT WISCONSIN IS
PAYING THAT COST.
WE ARE EVENTUALLY, IF
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SEES
HOW USEFUL THIS TOOL IS IT WILL
WAIVE THAT COST MAKING IT EVEN
EASIER FOR US TO HELP MORE
PEOPLE.
WE BEGAN THIS PROJECT WITH A $1
MILLION AWARD FROM SCHMIDT
FUTURES, AN ORGANIZATION STARTED
BY ERIC SCHMIDT, WHO STARTED
GOOGLE, AND THAT AWARD WAS THE
CULMINATION OF AON
THAT LIFT PARTICIPATED IN A
COUPLE YEARS AGO CALLED "DREAM
UP WISCONSIN" WHICH WAS A
UNIVERSITY PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP
TO INCREASE INCOMES
COUNTY RESIDENTS OVER TIME.
WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN WINNING
THAT MONEY.
MUCH OF THE MONEY HAS GONE TO
DEVELOPING TECHNOLOGY, AND
OTHER MONEY WILL, OBVIOUSLY, GO
TO PAYING TO ACCESS THESE
RECORDS AND MAINTAINING THE
TECHNOLOGY, AND THEN LIFT IS
ALSO PAYING LEGAL SERVICE
PROVIDERS WHO PROVIDE NECESSARY
SERVICES TO PEOPLE WHO NEED
ADDITIONAL HELP, AND SO, FOR
EXAMPLE, WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT
WITH WITH LEGAL ACTION OF
WISCONSIN TO HELP INDIVIDUALS
WHO MIGHT NEED MORE ADDITIONAL
HELP IN CASES WHERE THEY CAN'T
JUST DO IT THROUGH THE
ONLINE.
>> SO IT IS FREE FOR PEOPLE TO
USE.
WITHOUT IT, WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE
EVENING -- EFFECTS OF THE
COMPOUNDING BARRIERS AS SOMEONE
HAS THESE RECORDS THAT THEY
DON'T KNOW NEED TO BET KNOW HOW TO CLEAR, AND ON
THE FLIPSIDE, WHAT BENEFIT DOES
IT HAVE TO SOCIETY TO HAVE
PEOPLE HAVE THESE RECORDS CLEAR
AND HAVE THE BARRIERS REMOVED
FOR PEOPLE LOOKING FOR BETTER
EMPLOYMENT, BETTER HOUSING?
>> WELL, BACKGROUND CHECKS, AS
WE KNOW, ARE REQUIRED FOR MOST TYPICALLY, JOBS THAT
PROVIDE BETTER STABILITY, PAY,
AND BENEFITS, AND SO IF YOU HAVE
A BACKGROUND CHECK THAT'S CLEAR
OR IN BETTER SHAPE THAN IT WAS
BEFORE YOU CLEARED THE RECORDS
THAT WERE ELIGIBLE TO BE TAKEN
OFF YOUR BACKGROUND CHECK, YOUR
CHANCEMENT GO UP.
THERE HAS NOT BEEN RESEARCH
RELATED TO CLEARING CRIMINAL
RECORDS, BUT THERE HAS BEEN TO EXPUNGEMENT.
IN PARTICULAR, THERE WAS A VERY
LARGE RESEARCH PROJECT
UNDERTAKEN IN MICHIGAN A COUPLE
OF YEARS CASES WHERE
EXPUNGEMENTS WERE ABLE TO BE
ACCOMPLISHED WITH A NOTICEABLE
INCREASE IN ECONOMIC BENEFITS
FOR INDIVIDUALS, BOTH IN JOBS
AND IN WAGES.
THOSE JOBS AND WAGES TRICKLE
DOWN TO SUPPORT
THEY SUPPORT OUR ECONOMY, AND
YOU REMEMBER THESE ARE NOT CASES
OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE ENGAGED
IN CONDUCT THAT PRESENT
A DANGER TO SOCIETY.
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE
BEEN ARRESTED FOR SOMETHING THAT
THEY DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO
WITH.
SO GIVING THE ABILITY TO
WORK AND EARN MONEY AND GET
HOUSING IS AN
BENEFIT, BUT IT ULTIMATELY IS A
SOCIETAL BENEFIT.
>> THIS JUST KIND OF ONE STEP
FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION, IS THIS
JUST A TOE IN THE WATER?
DO YOU CAT CATEGORIZE THIS AS
CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM?
>> IT IS A TOE IN THE WATER IN
THAT WE ARE HELPING PEOPLE CLEAR
CRIMINAL RECORDS.
WE'RE NOT HELPING PEOPLE WITH
EXPLUNGEMENTS BECAUSE OUR
EXPUNGEMENT LAW IS VERY
CHALLENGING IN WISCONSIN, AND
WE'RE NOT HELPING PEOPLE WITH
OTHER TYPES OF BACKGROUND CHECK
CHALLENGES SUCH AS WHEN IF YOU,
SUCH AS CASES OF MISTAKEN
IDENTITY, AND IF SOMETHING SHOWS
UP ON THE BACKGROUND CHECK AND
THAT WAS NOT ME, IT IS MORE
COMPLICATED, AND YOU CAN'T DO IT USING AN ONLINE TOOL.
THAT REQUIRES HELP, AND USUALLY
LEGAL HELP, AND SO IT IS A STEP
IN THE WATER BECAUSE THE SYSTEMS
AREO GO THROUGH.
HOPEFULLY, BY TAKING THESE
STEPS, ONE STEP AT A TIME, WE
ARE HOPING THAT IT WILL LEADEM CHANGE SO THAT CRIMINAL
JUSTICE LAWS, EXPUNGEMENT LAWS,
CRIMINAL RECORDS LAWS, SUCH AS
KEEPING A CRIMINAL CASE ON C-CAP
OR ON YOUR CRIMINAL HISTORY FOR
15 YEARS WHEN YOU NEVER ENGAGED
INMINAL CONDUCT,
THOSE KINDS OF POLICY DECISIONS
AND LEGISLATIVE DECISIONS WILL
ULTIMATELY BE AS A RESULT OF THE
WORK WE ARE DOING.
>> AND IN THIS TIME WHEN WE HAVE
SEEN A LARGE RECKONING IN HOW
DIFFERENT RACES INTERACT WITH
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
WITH POLICE, ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR
MORE IMPACTED BY THESE RECORDS
BEING AROUND AND IMPACTING
EMPLOYMENT AND HOUSING, AND
COULD THIS ALSO BE A STEP
TOWARDS GREATER EQUITY IN THAT
AREA?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THIS IS A RACIAL EQUITY
TOOL.
I MEAN, IT IS WELL-DOCUMENTED
THAT POLICING IMPACTS PEOPLE OF
COLOR MUCH MOREHITE
PEOPLE.
THAT MEANS WHEN THEY ARE
ARRESTED, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE
LONGER ARREST RECORDS.
SO AND THAT'S GOING TO
HAMPER THEIR ABILITY TO OBTAIN
BETTER JOBS, HOUSING, AND
ECONOMIC PROSPERITY.
IT DEFINITELY HASMPACT ON
ADDRESSING RACIAL INEQUITIES IN
OUR SYSTEM.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE,
MARSHA MANSFIELD, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF LEGAL INTERVENTIONS
FOR TRANSFORMING WISCONSIN,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US
TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> MORE
AND PBS WISCONSIN, YOU CAN VISIT
PBSWISCONSIN.ORG AND THANK YOU
SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON "NOON
WEDNESDAY".