>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA
JOURNALIST WITH "HERE AND NOW"
ON PBS WISCONSIN.
TODAY IS APRIL 28th.
THE HARDSHIPS OF THE COVID
PANDEMIC ARE NOT LIMITED TO
PHYSICAL HEALTH.
A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS HAS BEEN
GOING AS THE PAN PAN PANDEMIC DRAGS ON
IMPACTING YOUNG PEOPLE.
JOINING ME TODAY TO TALK ABOUT
THE BREATH OF CONCERN OF THE
ISSUE IS DR. MEGAN MORENO, A
PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS AT THE
UW SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND PUBLIC
HEALTH AND A PEDIATRIC
PHYSICIAN, AND DR. MORENO, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE
TODAY.
>> THANK YOU.
>> I JUST WANT TO START BY
ASKING, OVERALL, HOW ARE YOUTH
FAIRING IN GENERAL, AND WHAT
HAVE YOU BEEN SEEING IN YOUR OWN
PATIENTS?
>> SURE.
WELL, I THINK ONE WAY THAT
ILLUSTRATES OH YOUTH
ILLUSTRATES HOW YOUTH HAVE BEEN
FAIRING IN THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
IS JUST WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR
CLINIC VOLUME.
WE HAVE AN ADDLESS SENT AND
ADULT CLINIC IN UW HEALTH
LOCATED IN MADISON, AND WE HAVE
PATIENT VOLUMES EACH YEAR THAT
WE COUNT AND CALCULATE IN
IN-PATIENT AND OUT-PATIENT.
A MONTH AGO, WE LOOKED AT
NUMBERS OVER THE PAST YEAR AND
COMPARED IT TO THE PAST FIVE
YEARS, AND OUR VOLUMES THIS YEAR
ARE ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT WE EXPECT
ON PAST YEARS SO REALLY TWICE
THE NUMBER OF PATIENTS THAT
WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE GETTING
ADMITTED TO THE HOSPITAL, TWICE
THE NUMBER OF PATIENTS THAT
WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE GETTING
REFERRED TO US IN ADOLESCENT
MEDICINE, AND THE OTHER THING WE
ARE SEEING IS WHEN WE,
OURSELVES, MAKE REFERRALS TO
MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, THE
WAIT TIMES ARE MUCH, MUCH LONGER
AND THE ACCESS IS MUCH LOWER.
THAT SUGGESTS TO ME THERE'S A
LOT OF KIDS OUT THERE SEEKING
CARE AND HAVING MORE DIFFICULTY
ACCESSING CARE, BUT THAT DOESN'T
SCRATCH THE SURFACE OF KIDS WHO
COULD USE MORE SUPPORT AND ARE
NOT TRYING TO GET IT.
>> JUST TO PUT IT INTO
PERSPECTIVE, HOW HAS THIS LAST
YEAR OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
BEEN DIFFERENT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE
THAN PREVIOUS DECADES WHERE
OTHER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED,
WARS, BIG THINGS IN HISTORY,
WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT THIS TIME?
>> I THINK THAT ONE ASPECT
THAT'S UNIQUE AND IMPACTS
ADOLESCENTS IS THINKING ABOUT
WHERE ADOLESCENTS ARE IN THEIR
DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE.
SOME OF THE BIG TASKS AND REALLY
IMPORTANT THINGS FOR ADOLESCENTS
TO DO INCLUDE BEING ABLE TO
DEVELOP AUTONOMY FROM THEIR
PARENTS, BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP
PEER SUPPORT STRUCTURES, BEING
ABLE TO DEVELOP AND UNDERSTAND
THEIR OWN IDENTITY, AND ALL OF
THOSE ASPECTS OF THEIR
DEVELOPMENT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED
BY THE PANDEMIC.
IT IS HARDER TO DEVELOP YOUR
IDENTITY WHEN YOU CAN'T LEAVE
YOUR HOUSE.
IT IS HARDER TO BE ABLE TO
CONNECT WITH FRIENDS WHEN YOU
CAN'T SEE YOUR FRIENDS.
SO I THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT
PUTTING ADOLESCENTS AT UNIQUE
RISK.
AT THE SAME TIME I THINK WHAT
HAS MADE THIS SITUATION
DIFFERENT THAN HISTORICAL EVENTS
IN THE PAST ARE THAT ADOLESCENTS
HAVE TECH-BASED TOOLS TO BE ABLE
TO STAY CONNECTED IN WAYS THAT
WERE NOT POSSIBLE BEFORE.
I OFTEN THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S
BEEN A LOT OF DOOM AND GLOOM
STORIES IN THE MEDIA HOW MUCH
ADOLESCENTS ACCESS SCREENS, BUT
AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO
REFLECT THAT WHAT IF WE DIDN'T
HAVE THE SCREENS?
YOU KNOW, YOUTH WOULD HAVE
MISSED OUT ON A YEAR OF SCHOOL.
MAYBE IT WAS NOT A PERFECT
SCHOOL EXPERIENCE, BUT IT
CERTAINLY IS BETTER THAN NO
SCHOOL EXPERIENCE, AND THEY
WOULD HAVE MISSED OUT ON
FACETIMING WITH GRANDMA, WHICH
IS NOT THE SAME AS SEEING
GRANDMA, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY
BETTER THAN NOT CONNECTING IN
THAT WAY, AND SO I THINK THAT IT
IS A VERY CHALLENGING TIME FOR
ADDLESSENTS, BUT IN PART, MADE
BETTER BY TECH TOOLS IN THE
MODERN ERA.
>> THEY ARE A DOUBLE-EDGED
SWORD, AND YOU ALLUDED TO THIS,
BUT THERE ARE DOWNSIDES FOR
ADOLESCENTS AND THEIR DEVELOPING
BRAINS WITH SO MUCH SCREEN TIME?
>> YEAH.
IT IS A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD M I
THINK THAT THE IDEA THAT BEING
IN FRONT OF THE SCREEN ALL DAY
AND GETTING ALL OF YOUR SOCIAL
CONNECTION AND LEARNING FROM
THAT SCREEN IS DEFINITELY NOT
SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP
ADOLESCENTS FLOURISH AND GROW IN
SOME OF THE WAYS THAT ARE REALLY
IMPORTANT.
THE IDEA OF EVEN JUST SITTING
STILL IN ONE PLACE ALL DAY, YOU
KNOW, THERE'S REPORTS OF EYE AND
BACK FATIGUE, PHYSICAL HEALTH
PARAMETERS THAT COULD BE
IMPACTED WHEN YOU SIT IN THE
SAME CHAIR ALL A, AND WE AS
ADULTS UNDERSTAND THIS WELL, AND
JUST ZOOM FATIGUE OF WHAT IT
MEANS TO GIVE YOUR ATTENTION TO
A TINY LITTLE BOX IN FRONT OF
YOU.
IT IS JUST VERY DIFFERENT FROM
THE TIME OF IMMERSIVE LEARNING
WE KNOW CAN REALLY HELP YOU TAKE
IN LESSONS AND LEARN AND IN
REALLY POSITIVE WAYS.
>> NOW, ARE THERE SOME STUDENTS
THAT ARE ACTUALLY THRIVERRING --
THRIVING IN THIS ENVIRONMENT?
>> GREAT QUESTION.
I ARGUE THAT THERE ARE.
THERE ARE DEFINITELY STUDENTS
WE'VE SEEN IN CLINIC THAT WERE
STRUGGLING BEFORE COVID AND HAVE
COME TO A VISIT OFTEN BY
TELEHEALTH AND SAID THIS IS
FANTASTIC.
THIS IS A WAY THAT I REALLY LIKE
TO LEARN.
I'M MORE COMFORTABLE.
SOME KIDS WHO WERE STRUGGLING
WITH BULLYING IN SCHOOLS HAVE
FELT LIKE THIS WAS A REPRIEVE
FOR THEM.
EVEN IN MANY OF THE WORKPLACES,
WE SEE SOME PEOPLE SAYING, THIS
IS THE KIND OF WORK I ALWAYS
WANTED TO DO.
I THINK THAT A CHALLENGE FOR US
IN THIS NEXT PHASE WILL BE TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THAT NEW
NORMAL LOOK LIKE?
ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE CAN ADAPT
SOME SYSTEMS FOR KIDS WHO DID
REALLY, REALLY WELL IN THIS
TECH-BASED LEARNING ENVIRONMENT.
>> AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
CONNECTING WITH TECH, SOCIAL
MEDIA CAN BE A WAY TO CONNECT
WITH PEOPLE, BUT I EVEN NOTICE
MY OWN ATTENTION SPAN CAN
SOMETIMES SHORTEN WHEN I'M
DISTRACTED BY SO MANY SOCIAL
MEDIA APPS.
HOW DOES THAT IMPACT YOUNG
PEOPLE TODAY WHERE IT IS SO
SOCIAL MEDIA HEAVY.
>> YEAH.
I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA HAS
DEFINITELY BEEN A DOUBLE-EDGED
SWORD FROM THE BEGINNING, AND
DURING THE PANDEMIC, IT'S
PRESENTED NEW OPPORTUNITIES AS
WELL AS NEW CHALLENGES.
SOME OF WHAT WE HAVE HEARD IN
CLINIC IS ADOLESCENTS WHO HAVE
BEEN PART OF LARGER MOVEMENTS
USING SOCIAL MEDIA WHETHER THOSE
ARE LARGER, MORE CIVIC BASED
MOVEMENTS OR EVEN JOINING
SOMETHING FUN AND SILLY LIKE A
SOURDOUGH BAKING CHALLENGE SO I
THINK SOCIAL MEDIA HAS GIVEN
THAT POWER OF CONNECTION FOR
SOME YOUTH, BUT FOR OTHERS, IT
HAS BECOME SOMETHING THAT
BECOMES MORE COMPULSIVE AND
HARDER TO KNOW WHEN TO LOG OFF
WHEN YOU ARE AT HOME ALL DAY,
AND YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE CUES OF
WHEN YOU SHOULD BE GETTING UP OR
GOING OUT.
IT, I THINK, IT'S MAGNIFIED
THOSE BENEFITS AND MAGNIFIED THE
RISKS.
>> NOW, SCHOOLS CAN BE A PLACE
OF INTERVENTION AND AN EDUCATOR
COULD POSSIBLY BETTER SEE
PHYSICAL OR BEHAVIOR CHANGES IN
A STUDENT WHO MAY BE STRUGGLING.
DO WE KNOW THE EXTENT TO WHICH
SOME THINGS ARE GOING UNCHECKED?
IS SEEKING MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT
BEEN DESTIGMATIZED ENOUGH THAT
STUDENTS CAN ASK FOR HELP SOONER
OR BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
THE DE-STIGMAIZATION OF MENTAL
HEALTH, I THINK, HAS BEEN
IMPROVING STEADILY OVER THE PAST
DECADE, AND, HOPEFULLY, WITH THE
EVENTS OVER THE LAST YEAR WILL
CONTINUE TO BE IMPROVED.
I THINK THAT SOCIAL MEDIA AND
THE STORIES THAT CAN BE TOLD VIA
SOCIAL MEDIA IN THE WAYS PEOPLE
CAN COMMUNICATE JUST SOCIAL
NORMING AROUND MENTAL HEALTH AND
SEEKING MENTAL HEALTHCARE, I
THINK THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN REALLY
GREAT STRIDES THAT MANY OF US
HAVE BEEN HOPING FOR FOR A LONG
TIME.
I THINK THAT RIGHT NOW ONE OF
THE CONCERNS IS THAT WE DO HAVE
SO MUCH OF A LOWER STIGMA ABOUT
SEEKING MENTAL HEALTHCARE, AND
MANY FOLKS WHO NEED THAT CARE
RIGHT NOW, BUT WE HAVE MORE OF
AN ACCESS GAP WHERE THERE'S SO
MUCH NEED AND NOT ENOUGH
PROVIDERS TO FILL IT.
>> WHAT IS ONE OF THE POTENTIAL
SOLUTIONS OR MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS
TO BRIDGING THAT GAP?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND
IT IS ONE THAT MANY FOLKS IN THE
PEDIATRIC, MENTAL HEALTH, AND
EDUCATION COMMUNITIES ARE
THINKING ABOUT.
ONE OF THE GROUPS WITHIN OUR
UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN, THE
WISCONSIN PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM,
HAS PUT OUT A CALL FOR GRANT
APPLICATIONS FOR FOLKS WHO
OPERATE WITHIN COMMUNITIES TO
PUT FORTH SOME OF THEIR BEST
IDEAS ON HOW TO BRIDGE THIS GAP,
AND THAT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE
BUILDING NEW PROGRAMS FOR YOUTH
TO ENGAGE WITH AND BUILD
SELF-ESTEEM AND RESILIENCE,
WHICH WE KNOW BOTH ARE
PROTECTIVE FROM MENTAL HEALTH
AND PROVIDING TRAINING TO THOSE
ALREADY ENGAGING WITH YOUTH BUT
MITE -- MIGHT NOT HAVE
ADDITIONAL MENTAL TRAINING SO
COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS, PEER
SUPPORT PEOPLE, JUST TRYING TO
LOOK ACROSS WHO'S ALREADY ENGAGE
ENGAGED IN THE WORK AND GIVE
THEM A NEW SET OF TOOL IN THEIR
TOOL BOX TO BRIDGE THIS
INCREASED NEED.
>> DO WE UNDERSTAND HOW A YOUNG
PERSON IS PROCESSING SOMETHING
LIKE A GLOBAL PANDEMIC, AND EVEN
FURTHER, IF THEY HAVE LOST
SOMEONE CLOSE TO THEM DUE TO
COVID-19?
>> SUCH A GREAT QUESTION.
I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE THINGS
I'VE LEARNED FROM THE PAST
COUPLE DECADES OF BEING
FORTUNATE TO WORK WITH
ADOLESCENTS IS BEING CAREFUL
THINKING OF THEM AS A GROUP
BECAUSE THEY ARE SUCH A DIVERSE
SET OF INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE
REALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES
THAT IMPACT THEM.
I THINK THAT BEING ABLE TO THINK
ABOUT THEIR DEVELOPMENTAL LENS,
AND, AGAIN, THE THINGS THAT THEY
NEED IN THIS STAGE OF
DEVELOPMENT TO BE ABLE TO
DEVELOP AN IDENTITY TO MAKE
SOCIAL CONNECTION, TO FEEL LIKE
THEY ARE ABLE TO BUILD AUTONOMY,
THOSE CAN HELP US, I THINK,
THINK ABOUT WHAT ASPECTS OF THAT
HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY THE
PANDEMIC, BUT I ALSO THINK
ADOLESCENTS ARE ONE OF THE MOST
RESILIENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE
THAT -- AND MOST RESILIENT AGE
GROUPS THAT WE HAVE -- AND GEN Z
IN PARTICULAR IS THE MOST
DIVERSE INTERSECTIONAL WE'VE
EVER SEEN.
WE HAVE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT AND
RESOURCES, BUT NOT MAKE
ASSUMPTIONS THEY ARE NOT GOING
TO COME OUT OF THIS AS AN
INCREDIBLY STRONG GENERATION OF
YOUNG PEOPLE.
>> THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE
CONTROL RECENTLY ACKNOWLEDGED
RACISM AS A SERIOUS PUBLIC
HEALTH THREAT.
HOW DO YOUTH NOT ONLY PROCESS
THAT FACT ALONE, BUT ALSO
ONGOING SEEING AND HEARING ABOUT
ANOTHER BLACK OR BROWN PERSON
BEING TARGETED OR KILLED, AND
HOW IS THIS ACUTELY IMPACTING
ESPECIALLY YOUTH OF COLOR?
>> THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS.
I THINK THAT BEING ABLE TO CALL
RACISM WHAT IT IS, WHICH IS A
PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, WHICH
MEANS THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT
IMPACTS THE HEALTH OF
INDIVIDUALS AS WELL AS
COMMUNITIES, IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT STEP FORWARD TO BE
ABLE TO BUILD TOOLS AND
INTERVENTIONS AS WELL AS
PREVENTION TO BE ABLE TO NOT
MAKE THIS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS
ANYMORE.
I THINK YOUTH, AND, AGAIN, THIS
GENERATION OF YOUTH WHO IS SO
DIVERSE AND INTERSECTIONAL, I
THINK THIS REALLY SPEAKS TRUTH
TO THAT GROUP, AND I THINK THAT
THERE'S MANY EXAMPLES OF PLACES
WHERE USE HAVE ALREADY BEEN
ORGANIZING AND ADVOCATING AND
MAKING THEIR VOICES HEARD
THROUGH TOOLS LIKE SOCIAL MEDIA
AND THROUGH THINGS LIKE STRONG
ADULT MENTORS, SO I THINK THAT
FOR GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS AND
FOR THE GENERATION, THERE'S A
LOT OF POWER THAT THEY PERCEIVE
THAT THEY CAN WIELD, BUT I DON'T
THINK THAT NEGATES THAT FOR AN
INDIVIDUAL ADOLESCENT WHO HAD A
NEGATIVE OR HARMFUL EXPERIENCE.
THEY STILL NEED SUPPORT AND
RESOURCES THAT, AGAIN, ARE
HARDER TO COME BY RIGHT NOW.
>> AND YOU SPOKE TO RESILIENCE
AND YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE PLASTIC
BRAINS, CAN BE VERY FLEXIBLE,
BUT THEY ALSO ABSORB A LOT OF
INFORMATION.
IS THE CURRENT SOCIAL SITUATION
GOING TO ONLY HAVE SHORT TERM
IMPACTS BECAUSE OF THAT
RESILIENCY, OR WILL THERE BE
LONG-TERM IMPACTS BECAUSE OF THE
AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THEY TAKE
IN ON THEIR DEVELOPING BRAINS?
>> I THINK THAT WE CAN BE FAIRLY
OPTIMISTIC WHEN WE THINK ABOUT
ADOLESCENTS AND THEIR CAPACITY
TO LEARN AND GROW.
THE IDEA THAT THEIR BRAINS ARE
STILL PHYSICALLY AND COG COGNITIVELY
DEVELOPING UNTIL THE AGE OF 25.
THERE'S REASONS TO THINK THEY
ARE COME OUT OF THIS BETTER,
FASTER, AND STRONGER THAN THOSE
OF US SITTING WITH A FULLY
DEVELOPED BRAIN FOR A WHILE.
I THINK THAT A LOT OF THAT
DEPENDS ON HOW WE PROVIDE
SUPPORT TO TEENS TO CON
CONTEXTUALIZE WHAT HAPPENED AND
GIVE THEM SUPPORT NEEDED TO
PROCESS IT AND THE AGENCY TO BE
PART OF THE SOLUTIONS SO IT
DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
>> WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR
FAMILIES, PARENTS, EDUCATORS,
CARE GIVERS, OR YOUTH,
THEMSELVES, WHEN IT COMES TO
MAKING IT THROUGH THIS TIME?
>> I THINK THAT ONE PATTERN I'VE
SEEN AMONG YOUTH WHO HAVE DONE
WELL DURING THE PAST YEAR IS
YOUTH CAN FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE AN
ADULT IN THEIR LIFE THAT WILL
LISTEN TO THEM.
FOR MANY YOUTH, THEY WOULD GET
THIS AT SCHOOL WITH A FAVORITE
TEACHER OR EATING LUNCH IN THE
TEACHER'S CLASSROOM WHEN THEY
HAD A TOUGH DAY.
I THINK THAT WORKING AT HOME AND
GOING TO SCHOOL AT HOME AND
POTENTIALLY PARENTS WORKING AT
HOME, THAT CAN GIVE KIND OF THE
ILLUSION THAT YOU'RE ALL
TOGETHER ALL DAY, BUT IT MAY
ACTUALLY BE THAT YOU'RE ALL IN
SEPARATE ROOMS TRYING TO GET
YOUR WIFI TO WORK.
I THINK THAT FOR PARENTS WHO
REALIZE THAT IT IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT TIME TO LISTEN TO YOUR
TEENS, TO LISTEN TO WHAT THEY
ARE WORRIED ABOUT, TO LISTEN TO
HOW SAD THEY ARE FOR THINGS THEY
ARE MISSING OUT ON, AND TO TRY
TO AVOID, YOU KNOW, DISMISSING
WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH.
THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE PROBLEMS
OR WORRIES THAT ADULTS DO, BUT
THE PROBLEMS AND THE WORRIES
THEY HAVE ARE VERY, VERY REAL
FOR THEM, AND THEY NEED AN ADULT
IN THEIR LIFE THAT IS GOING TO
LISTEN AND VALIDATE THEIR
CONCERNS AND GIVE THEM BOTH
REALISTIC INFORMATION AS WELL AS
A HOPE FOR WHAT'S TO COME.
>> ALL RIGHT.
DR. MEGAN MORENO FROM THE UW
DEPARTMENT OF PEDIATRICS AND
SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND PUBLIC
HEALTH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU.
IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE.
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AND PBS WISCONSIN, YOU CAN VISIT
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ON "NOON WEDNESDAY."