>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.
>> THREE COUNTS, MURDER AND
MANSLAUGHTER.
THREE VERDICTS OF GUILTY FOR THE
FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE
OFFICER NOW BEHIND BARS FOR THE
MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.
THE VERDICTS SPARKED IMMEDIATE
REACTION FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> TODAY WE FEEL A SIGH OF
RELIEF.
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
>> IN MILWAUKEE, CELEBRATION AS
WELL AS RESOLVE.
RESOLVE TO USE THE GUILTY
VERDICT TO SPEARHEAD MEANINGFUL
POLICE REFORM, EVEN AS STATE
LAWMAKERS ACKNOWLEDGE THE
PROGRESS THIS WEEK REPRESENTS.
>> ON BEHALF OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN
S ALL OVER THIS
STATE, THE VERDICT YESTERDAY WAS
A WIN.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THE
MEANING AND FUTURE IMPLICATIONS
OF THE HISTORIC COURT DECISION
ON THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.
A NATIONAL EXPERT ON POLICE
REFORM IS HERE.
SO IS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR LM.
AND WE'LL HEAR FROM THE CO-CHAIR
OF THE ASSEMBLY TASK FORCE ON
RACE, REPRESENTATIVE SHEILA
STUBBS.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR APRIL 23
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN THE
MOMENTS AFTER THE GUILTY VERDICT
S WERE READ, PEOPLE TOOK
TO THE STREETS, THIS TIME IN
PEACE, WITH TEARS OF JOY.
THAT WAS THE SCENE IN MILWAUKEE.
"HERE AND NOW" REPORTERS WILL
KENNEALLY AND MURV SEYMOUR WERE
THERE.
>> TODAY I APPLAUD PEOPLE IN
MINNESOTA FOR DOING THEIR DAMN
JOB.
>> IT WAS A WIDESPREAD FEELING
OF RELIEF AS WISCONSINITES HEARD
THE NEWS THAT FORMER OFFICER
DEREK SHOW VIN -- SHAW VIN WAS
CONVICTED.
>> I KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN
THE PAST, THERE WAS NO HOPE OF,
YOU KNOW, BELIEVING THAT THERE
WOULD EVEN BE A VERDICT.
SO TO ACTUALLY GET IT AND GET IT
ON ALL THREE IS WHERE THE JOY
AND THE RELIEF COMES IN.
>> THE RELIEF CAME FROM SEEING
JUSTICE DONE, ACCORDING TO MANY.
THAT ANOTHER BLACK MAN WOULD NOT
BE KILLED BY POLICE WITHOUT
RACING A CONVICTION.
THIS PAIN IS FAMILIAR IN
MILWAUKEE.
>> THIS WOMAN STANDS IN THIS
CIRCLE AS A REMINDER OF WHY
YOU'RE ALL STANDING HERE TODAY.
WE HAVE EYES ON THE DONTRE
HAMELL SON CASE, LIKE THE WORLD
WATCHED.
>> HE WAS SHOT AND KILL BY
MILWAUKEE POLICE IN 2014.
HIS MOTHER MARIA SPOASK AT --
SPOKE AT A VALLEY ARVE THE
VERDICT WAS READ.
>> WE STILL HURT.
THERE'S THOUSANDS OF POLICE THAT
HAVE NOT SEEN THE INSIDE OF A
COURTHOUSE.
AND WE STILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT
HOW WE GON THAT -- GONNA GET UP.
>> ASK THEMSELVES WHAT THEY CAN
DO TO LIFT UP THE COMMUNITY.
OTHERS SAW IT AS A TEACHING
MOMENT.
>> ARE YOU HAVING THOSE
CONVERSATIONS?
DO YOUR KIDS GET TO WATCH COURT
TRIAL OF GEORGE FLOYD.
TO YOU EXPLAIN TO THEM THE
IMPORTANCE OF WHAT HAPPENED
TODAY?
IF YOU HAVEN'T, IT IS MY JOB AS
AN EDUCATOR, AS A BLACK MOM TO
IM IMPORTANT YOU TO DO SO.
>> FOR ME, IT IS DEFINITELY A
TEACHABLE MOMENT IN HOW
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM, HOW A VERDICT OF
PEERS, YOU KNOW, MULTIRACIAL
PEERS, CAN CHANGE A VERDICT
VERSUS HAVING PEER THAT'S DON'T
LOOK LIKE THEM.
>> OUR KIDS ARE NOT LEARNING AT
SCHOOL NOT TO BE RACIST.
OUR KIDS ARE NOT LEARNING AT
SCHOOL MAKE FRIENDS WHO PEOPLE
WHO DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU.
>> WHILE THE GUILTY WAS A
CELEBRATION FOR MANY, THERE'S
STILL WORK TO BE DONE.
>> THIS IS A DEFINITE
CELEBRATION WE CELEBRATE WITH
THE FLOYD FAMILY, BUT WE STILL
THINK ABOUT THE OTHER FAMILIES
THAT DID NOT GET THEIRS AND
THEIR KILLERS ARE STILL BACK AT
WORK, STILL THROUGHOUT THE
COMMUNITY.
AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
CASES LIKE THIS CONTINUE TO
HAPPEN, WHERE PEOPLE CONTINUE TO
GET THE JUSTICE THAT THEY
DESERVE WHEN UNJUSTLY KILLED BY
OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.
>> REPORTING FROM MILWAUKEE, I'M
WILL KENNEALLY FOR "HERE AND NOW
."
[CHANTING]
>> I'M MURV SEYMOUR WITH DETAILS
ON WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT NOW THAT A
GUILTY VERDICT IS IN AFTER THIS
ENORMOUS TRIAL.
>> WE KNOW THAT FOLKS HAVE BEEN
CALLING FOR CHANGE FOR QUITE
SOME TIME.
THIS SHOULD PUT A FIRE UNDER
EVERYONE THAT WE CANNOT IGNORE
THIS ISSUE ANY LONGER.
>> WE TALK WITH A LAWMAKER WHO
HAS TAKEN TO THE STREETS MARCH
ING FOR CHANGE.
>> FOLKS HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.
MY COLLEAGUES IN THE LEGISLATURE
AND WE ALL MUST RISE TO THE
OCCASION TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER
RATHER THAN LETTING THE PETTY
SCWOBL -- SQUABBLES GET IN THE
WAY.
>> I'M NOT A USE OF FORCE EXPERT
>> A SPECIAL BIPARTISAN TASK
FORCE OF STATE REPRESENTATIVES
ANNOUNCED MORE THAN A DOZEN
RECOMMENDATIONS ON STATEWIDE
STANDARDS FOR POLICING.
THAT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE
FORCING OFFICERS TO INTERVENE IF
THEY SEE ANOTHER ONE USING
EXCESSIVE FORCE.
STRONGER PROTECTION FOR OFFICERS
WHO REPORT WITNESSING EXCESSIVE
FORCE.
AND A STATE STATEWIDE BAN ON
CHOKE HOLDS.
BODY CAMERAS AND PSYCHOLOGICAL
EVALUATIONS FOR OFFICERS BEFORE
THEY'RE EVEN HIRED.
>> THERE ARE PEOPLE IN POSITIONS
OF AUTHORITY.
>> MAYOR TOM BARRETT SAYS IT'S
CLEAR.
WE NEED NEW APPROACHES IN
ACCOUNTABILITY AND INCREASED
ACCOUNT -- RESPECT FOR THE
COMMUNITY.
IT'S NOT THE END OF PROBLEMS IN
POLICING.
>> THIS IS NOT THE CONCLUSION OF
ANYTHING.
THE FIGHT FOR RACIAL JUSTICE,
FAIR POLICING, COMMUNITY
INVOLVEMENT HAS TO CONTINUE.
IT WILL CONTINUE.
BECAUSE WE CONTINUE TO SEE TOO
MANY PEOPLE DYING AT THE HANDS
OF POLICE OFFICERS THROUGHOUT
THIS NATION.
AND THAT HAS TO CHANGE.
[CHANTING]
>> SO HOW DO SOCIAL JUSTICE
PROTESTS IN KENOSHA, MADISON,
MILWAUKEE AND OTHER PARTS OF THE
STATE EFFECT ACTUAL CHANGES IN
POLICING?
LISTEN TO THIS PROTESTOR.
>> IF YOU THINK YOUR PRESENCE
HERE IS GOING TO HAVE AN EE
EFFECT ON POLICING?
>> DEFINITELY.
WE ALL HAVE A VOIFS.
THAT MAKES ONE GIGANTIC VOICE.
I MOST DEFINITELY BELIEVE THAT I
AS AN INDIVIDUAL COMING TOGETHER
WITH OTHER INDIVIDUALS CAN MOST
DEFINITELY MAKE A CHANGE.
>> PEOPLE, UNITED WILL NEVER BE
DIVIDED.
>> THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD
SPARKED THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND
WORLD TO ENGAGE IN ACTIVISM:
THE MOST THAT WE SEE SINCE THE '
60s.
YOU ASK THEM IF PROTESTING WORKS
[CHANTING]
>> IT'S A STEP FORWARD.
>> WE NEED TO EMBRACE REFORM.
IT'S TIME FOR US TO BE CREATIVE,
THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX.
>> REPORTING FOR "HERE AND NOW"
I'M MURV SEYMOUR.
>> AS YOU SAW, THAT WAS MURV SEE
SEYMOUR REPORTING.
HE JOINS THE "HERE AND NOW" TEAM
WILL KENNEALLY RECENTLY JOIFNED
THE REPORTING STAFF OF "HERE AND
NOW" AFTER A TIRELESS YEAR AS
DIGITAL EDITOR.
THIS WEEK GOVERNOR EVERS SIGNED
AN EXECUTIVE ORDER DIRECTING
STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT INCLUDING
STATE PATROL, CAPITOL POLICE AND
DNR WARDENS TO REVIEW AND UPDATE
THEIR USE OF FORCE POLICIES AND
THE ORDER SPECIFIES THAT DEADLY
FORCE BE USED ONLY AS A LAST
RESORT.
IT ALSO CALLS FOR OFFICERS TO
EMPLOY DE-ESCALATION TECHNIQUES
AND THAT THEY SHOULD INTERVENE
TO STOP EXCESSIVE FORCE BY
ANOTHER OFFICER.
FOLLOWING THE CONVICTION OF
DEREK SHOW -- CHAUVIN THE
LIEUTENANT THE GOVERNOR SAYS WE
ALL DESERVE BETTER.
MANDELA BARNES JOINS US NOW.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING
ME TODAY.
>> WHEN THE VERDICT CAME DOWN,
YOU SAID IT'S AN AMAZING THING,
THE IDEA OF JUSTICE CAN BE CAUSE
FOR CELEBRATION.
WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS THAT SOME
PEOPLE WILL CONSIDER THE
CONVICTION A ONE AND DONE AND
SAY, SEE, THE SYSTEM WORKS AND
JUST LEAVE IT THERE?
>> YEAH.
YEAH.
I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO LOOK
AT THIS AS AN OVERALL VICTORY.
THIS IS ACCOUNTABILITY IN ONE
INSTANCE.
JUSTICE WOULD BE GEORGE FLOYD
STILL LIVING AND BREATHING TODAY
AND I ALSO DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO
GET COM COMPLACENT AND THINK
THAT THE MOVEMENT HAS REACHED
ITS PEAK, THAT THIS IS THE
CULMINATION OF A YEAR LONG OF
ORGANIZING AND DEMONSTRATING.
IT'S NOT THAT.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE
ARE MORE INSTANCES OF ACCOUNT
ABILITY LIKE THIS SO THAT
WE CAN BE ON THE PATH TO TRUE
JUSTICE.
THERE ARE SO MANY COMMUNITIES,
SO MANY FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS
WHO DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SEE WHAT
HAPPENED OR DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE
THE ACCOUNTABILITY THAT WE SAW
EARLIER THIS WEEK WITH DEREK CHA
UVIN, EVEN HERE IN WISCONSIN,
SO MANY MORE INSTANCE THAT'S WE
NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
TRULY ON THE PATH TO ACHIEVING
JUSTICE.
>> MEANWHILE, AS WE JUST
DETAILED, THE GOVERNOR SIGNED AN
EXECUTIVE ORDER DIRECTING STATE
LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ON USE
OF FORCE.
HOW DO YOU REGARD THAT DIRECTIVE
DOES IT GO FAR ENOUGH?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE ARE
DOING WHAT WE CAN AT THE STATE
LEVEL.
AS I SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE, WE
NEED A COORDINATED APPROACH.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS
LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT DOING THE RIGHT THING
TO MAKE SURE THAT POLICING IN
OUR COMMUNITIES IS HELD TO A
STANDARD, A CERTAIN STANDARD, A
MUCH HIGHER STANDARD THAT --
THAN WE SEE NOW.
AT THE STATE LEVEL, THE GOVERNOR
IS TAKING THE NECESSARY STEP, A
STEP THAT HE IS ABLE TO TAKE
RIGHT NOW.
AS WE SEE, THE LEGISLATURE HAS
DECIDED TO NOT ACT.
THE GOVERNOR INTRODUCED A --
RELEASED A PACKAGE OF
LEGISLATION LAST YEAR AND IT'S
STILL SITTING THERE.
THEY HAVE YET TO TAKE IT UP.
AND SO WITH A LEGISLATURE THAT
CHOOSES TO IGNORE THE REALITY OF
SO MANY PEOPLE IN OUR STATE, SO
MANY AMERICANS, THE GOVERNOR IS
TAKING THAT STEP TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE DO EXACTLY WHAT WE CAN
DO WITH OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCIES.
>> AND YET ARE THINGS DIFFERENT
TODAY?
COULD THERE BE NEW MOVE MEN ITEM
>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE NEW
MOMENTUM.
I THINK WE SHOULD TURN THE PAGE
TO A NEW ERA WHERE WE SHOULD NOT
HAVE TO SIT ON PINS AND NEEDLES
AFTER WATCHING A VIDEO OF A MAN
KILLED AND WONDERING WHICH WAY
THE VERDICT IS GOING TO GO.
THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST ASTOUND
ING PARTS OF ALL OF THIS,
IS WE STILL FELT -- I DON'T MEAN
JUST WE AS BLACK PEOPLE.
WE AS THE PEOPLE IN AMERICA
STILL SAT WITH BAITED BREATH AS
THE VERDICT WAS READ ALOUD NOT
KNOWING WHICH WAY IT WOULD GO
REGARDLESS WE SAW THIS VIDEO.
THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE
CELEBRATING JUSTICE, CELEBRATING
THE FACT THAT THERE WAS GUILTY
VERDICTS, THIS IS AN INDICTMENT
ON THE SYSTEM THAT HAS DENIED
JUSTICE TO COMMUNITIES FOR SO
LONG.
>> GIVEN THE BIPARTISAN MAKEUP
OF THE TASK MORSE ON RACIAL --
FORCE ON RACIAL DISPARITIES,
WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS THAT
RECOMMENDATIONS WILL BE SIGNED
INTO LAW?
>> I THINK THAT SPEAKS A LITTLE
BIT MORE TO, YOU KNOW, THE
LACKLUSTER, YOU KNOW, NATURE OF
THE TASK FORCE.
WE PRESENTED THE ASSEMBLY AND
THE SENATE.
WE PRESENTED THE LEGISLATURE
WITH A PACKAGE OF BILLS.
AND IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WERE
ISSUES, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN
DEBATED ON THE ASSEMBLY FLOOR
AND ON THE SENATE FLOOR.
I THINK THAT EVEN THOUGH THERE
IS THIS RACIAL DISPARITY TASK
FORCE, THE FACT IS THERE ARE
MEMBERS THAT REPRESENT RACIAL
AND ETHNIC MINORITY GROUPS IN
THE LEGISLATURE THIEWFER, A
LEGISLATIVE BLACK CAUCUS.
I BRING THIS POINT UP ALL THE
TIME BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE THE
LEADERSHIP HAS CHOSEN TO IGNORE
THOSE BLACK LAWMAKERS AND EVEN
WHITE LAWMAKERS WHO HAVE
INTRODUCED BILLS FOR POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY.
AS WE'VE SAID BEFORE, THIS IS A
DELAY TACTIC SO THEY DON'T HAVE
TO DO MUCH.
BILLS DIDN'T COME OUT THF TASK
FORCE.
IF THEY WERE COMMITTED TO THE
WORK, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN
LEGISLATION THAT CAME AS A
RESULT OF THE WORK OF THIS TASK
FORCE.
>> WE'LL SEE WHERE THAT GOES.
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING
ME.
>> IF ANYONE KNOWS THE TENSION
BETWEEN POLICING AND RACE IS OUR
NEXT GUEST, THE FORMER MADISON
POLICE CHIEF, IN LAW ENFORCEMENT
FOR MORE THAN 35 YEARS, A
CONSULTANT FOR THE U.S. JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT ON COMMUNITY AND
POLICE RELATIONS AND THE EXPERT
WHO UPHELD THE DECISION TO NOT
CHARGE THE KENOSHA POLICE
OFFICER WHO SHOT JACOB BLAKE.
NOBLE WRAY SAYS HE ADD ADVOCATES
FOR POLICE AND POLICE REFORM.
WE GET HIS TAKE ON THE DEREK CHA
UVIN VERDICT.
CHIEF, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR
BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE THE INVITATION.
>> SO WHAT WAS YOUR REEF ACTION
TO THE VERDICT, BOTH AS A MEMBER
OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FROM A
PERSONAL STANDPOINT?
>> FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JUMPED
OUT AS I WATCHED THAT WERE THE
CITIZENS THAT WERE OBSERVING
WHAT WAS GOING ON.
AND FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, THEY
WERE NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR
FORM BEING ADVERSARIAL.
THEY WERE JUST DESCRIBING HOW
THEY FELT, WHAT WAS ACTUALLY
HAPPENING.
AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS SOMETHING
THAT WAS MISSED IN THIS.
THEY REALLY WERE CITIZENS THAT
CARED ABOUT GEORGE FLOYD AND I
THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS MISSED IN
THE WHOLE TRIAL AND WHAT WAS
GOING ON.
>> SO WHAT WAS IT LIKE FROM BOTH
PERSPECTIVES, TO HEAR THE
TESTIMONY AND REPEATEDLY SEE THE
INDIVIDUAL YOAF OF THE OFFICERS'
ACTIONS THAT RESULTED IN THE
OFFICER'S MURDER CONVICTION?
>> THIS WAS A NO-BRAINER FROM
THE BEGINNING.
I THOUGHT AND MANY IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT THOUGHT THAT THIS
WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS CLEARLY
AN EXCESSIVE FORCE CASE.
IT WAS NINE MINUTES AND SO MANY
SECONDS.
THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT I THINK
MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD STRAIGHT
FROM THE GATE.
AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BE A LAW
ENFORCEMENT EXPERT TO BE ABLE TO
DETERMINE THAT THIS WAS AN
INDICTMENT ON HUMANITY.
>> SO WITH 37 YEARS IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT THEN, WOULD YOU
DESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE
FLOYD AS AN OUT OUTLIER IN
POLICE PRACTICE OR AN EXAMPLE OF
ALL TOO COMMON USE OF FORCE,
ESPECIALLY AGAINST PEOPLE OF
COLOR?
>> I REALLY THINK THAT THESE
CASES SHOULD BE DEALT WITH ON A
CASE BY CASE BASIS BECAUSE
THEY'RE SO COMPLEX.
THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO
RECOGNIZE IS THE FRAMEWORK IN
WHICH THE SUPREME COURT HAS LAID
THIS OUT, OBJECTIVELY REASONABLE
, THAT I DON'T THINK
WE'RE GOING TO GET DIFFERENT
RESULTS AND I THINK THE PUBLIC
EXPECTS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET
DIFFERENT RESULTS WHEN IT'S
FRAMED OUT BASED UPON HOW THE
SUPREME COURT HAS LAID THIS OUT,
THE SUBJECTIVELY REASONABLE
STANDARD.
>> SO WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT
THAT, THAT OBJECTIVE
REASONABLENESS STANDARD?
IT KIND OF DEPENDS, RIGHT, ON
WHO YOU'RE CALLING OBJECTIVE TO
MEET THAT THRESHOLD?
AND WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT IF
YOU ARE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT
REFORM?
>> THE REALITY IS ALTHOUGH WE
REFER TO IT AS BEING OBJECTIVE
AND REASONABLE, BECAUSE YOU'RE
DEALING WITH SOMEONE'S JUDGMENT,
HIS SUBJECTIVITY IS ALWAYS HERE.
AND SO AS LONG AS WE ARE JUDGING
THIS, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE A
SUBJECTIVE PART OF THE ANALYSIS
THAT WILL TAKE PLACE HERE.
AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE
THAT.
IT IS WHAT A REASONABLE OFFICER
WOULD DO UNDER CERTAIN
CIRCUMSTANCES.
AND I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND
THAT.
BUT THERE'S STILL A LEVEL OF
SUBJECTIVITY THAT WE HAVE TO
ACCOUNT FOR.
>> AS TO THAT, HAVE STRIEFDZ
BEEN MADE IN MITIGATING IMPLICIT
BASIS WHERE LAW ENFORCEMENT SEE
BLACK PEOPLE, THEY SEE A THREAT?
>> YEAH.
I MEAN, THE RESEARCH IT OUT
THERE.
I MEAN, THERE IS A BLACK THREAT
IMPLICIT BIAS.
THERE'S DATA, THERE'S RESEARCH,
THERE'S EM PEEFER PEER --
EMPIRICAL INFORMATION OUT THERE
THAT WOULD SHOW.
HERE'S THE THING IN TERMS OF THE
BLACK THREAT IMPLICIT BIAS, MANY
POLICE OFFICERS ARE NOW STARTING
TO PULL BACK, BECAUSE THEY DON'T
WANT TO BE THE CNN, THE FOX NEWS
, THE SOCIAL MEDIA EXAMPLE.
SO THEY ARE PULLING BACK ON SOME
OF THE ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS
THAT THEY WOULD TAKE, BOTH IN
THE AREA OF USE OF FORCE AS WELL
AS THE WORK.
>> SO THAT WOULD BE REGARDED, I
TRUST, AS A GOOD THING.
>> IN SOME RESPECTS, IT'S A GOOD
THING.
IN SOME RESPECTS, IT'S NOT.
BECAUSE PROACTIVE POLICE,
ENGAGING WITH COMMUNITY, TALKING
TO PEOPLE, EXPLAINING WHAT
YOU'RE DOING, ENGAGING WITH
COMMUNITY IS THE HEART AND SOUL
OF COMMUNITY POLICING.
SO IF WE'VE GOT POLICE OFFICERS
THAT ARE PULLING BACK, THEY'RE
NOT ENGAGING, THAT'S THE
DOWNSIDE.
THE PART IN THIS WHERE I THINK
OFFICERS ARE THINKING THROUGH
THIS ONE IS THE USE OF FORCE.
YOU KNOW, HOW DO I APPROACH THIS
SHOULD I SLOW DOWN?
SHOULD I CREATE DISTANCE?
ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FOR POLICE
OFFICERS NOT TO ENGAGE IN USES
OF FORCE.
>> YOU SAID AT THE CONCLUSION OF
YOUR JACOB BLAKE REVIEW THAT THE
POLICING FIELD MUST CONTINUE TO
FOCUS ON THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN
LIFE IN DEALING WITH DEADLY
FORCE.
HOW DOES THE POLICING FIELD GET
THERE AND STAY THE FOCUS ON THE
SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE?
>> I DON'T THINK, FREDERICA,
THAT WE HAVE PUSHED HARD ENOUGH
ON, YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA THAT WE
HAVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, FIREARMS
AS PART OF ENDING THIS.
I REALLY DON'T.
THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS
SOMETHING THAT IS GUARANTEED TO
CITIZENS.
IT IS NOT GUARANTEED TO POLICE
OFFICERS.
WE SHOULD BE PUSHING HARDER AS A
PROFESSION, THAT WE CAN STOP A
HUMAN BEING WITHOUT TAKING A
LIFE.
THAT IS SO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.
I DON'T THINK AS A PROFESSION, I
THINK WE FAIL IN THAT ARENA.
>> NOBLE WRAY, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> AS YOU HEARD EARLIER, A GROUP
OF LAWMAKERS, LAW ENFORCEMENT
AND COMMUNITY LEADERS FORMED
AFTER THE SHOOTING OF JACOB
BLAKE RELEASED A FINAL REPORT OF
17 RECOMMENDATIONS THIS WEEK FOR
CHANGES TO POLICE PRACTICES IN
WISCONSIN.
EARLIER THIS WEEK, MARISA WOJCIK
SPOKE WITH REPRESENTATIVE SHEILA
STUBBS, CO-CHAIR OF THE SPEAKER
'S TASK FORCE ON RAIRVEL
DISPARITIES, WHICH LED THE WORK
ON THE PROPOSALS.
>> I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN THE
GUILTY VERDICT CAME DOWN?
>> I CRIED, BECAUSE FOR SO LONG
YOU WATCH SO MANY FAMILIES GO
THROUGH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM AND WE NEVER FEEL LIKE
THERE IS ANY SIGHT OF JUSTICE.
AND, YOU KNOW, GIVING SO MUCH
INFORMATION AND STILL FEELING
LIKE NO MATTER WHAT'S BEEN GIVEN
, NO MATTER HOW MUCH
EVIDENCE IT IS, THE COMMUNITY
ALWAYS FEEL LIKE THERE'S NO
JUSTICE.
AND SO YESTERDAY IT WAS FIRST
IMPORTANT FOR ME TO PROCESS THAT
MR. GEORGE FLOYD SHOULD BE ALIVE
TODAY.
AND, YOU KNOW, MICHAEL IS NOT
JUST A HOLD OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE
, TO ENSURE VIOLENCE
DOES NOT CONTINUE TO IMPACT ANY
COMMUNITY.
BUT IN ADDITION IT WAS A MOMENT
TO LITERALLY TAKE A DEEP BREATH
AND PROCESS WHAT HAPPENED.
>> HOW HAS THE PROGRESSION OF
THIS PAST YEAR AND SPECIFICALLY
THE TRIAL INFLUENCED THE WORK OF
THE TASK FORCE AND OF THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON LAW ENFORCEMENT
POLICIES AND STANDARDS?
>> WELL, WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT
IS TO MAKE SURE THAT PROTESTORS
AND COMMUNITY WOULD BE BROUGHT
IN THAT SPACE, OUR POSTURES, OUR
LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERTS, OUR
COMMUNITY ADVOCATES WOULD BE
ABLE TO COME IN THAT SPACE AND
BRING TRUTH TO THE REALITY.
SO AS WE'VE DONE OUR WORK FOR
SEVEN MONTHS, WE'VE BEEN
TOGETHER WHEN THE VERDICT OF THE
JACOB BLAKE CASE HAPPENED.
OUR TASK FORCE CONTINUE TO MEET
DURING THE VERDICT ON THE
BREONNA TAYLOR CASE AND HAD JUST
COMPLETED OUR WORK AN HOUR
BEFORE THE VERDICT IN THE GEORGE
FLOYD CASE.
THESE ARE SUCH HUGE NATIONAL
TRATGY -- TRAGEDIES THAT HAVE
HAPPENED AND THE PRESSURE I FELT
WHEN WE COME IN THE ROOM.
I HAVE TO COME IN THAT ROOM AS A
CHAIRPERSON.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT WHAT I TAKE
WHAT I HEAR IN THE STREETS AND
THE DEMAND AND COME IN THAT ROOM
AND CRAFT LEGISLATION THAT IS
MEANINGFUL.
SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO HEAR WHAT
COMMUNITY HAS BEEN SAYING.
NUMBER ONE IS THAT ENOUGH IS
ENOUGH.
>> QUITE FRANKLY, ARE THESE
ISSUES DIFFICULT TO DISCUSS WITH
PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT LIVED THE
EXPERIENCE OF BEING BLACK IN
AMERICA AND IN WISCONSIN?
>> I THINK IT'S A TUNNEL VISION.
IT'S NOT HARD FOR ME TO TALK TO
ANYONE.
BUT I THINK WHAT WAS IMPORTANT
IS TO LISTEN, TO COMMUNITIES OF
COLOR THAT ARE IMPACTED.
LISTEN TO VALIDATORS OR LEADERS
OR INFLUENCERS IN THE COMMUNITY.
I DON'T THINK OFTENTIMES LAW
ENFORCEMENT GET A CHANCE TO HAVE
THAT CONVERSATION.
THE CONVERSATIONS THEY HAVE WITH
COMMUNITY IS ALWAYS AFTER A
MAJOR UNREST OR AFTER SOMETHING
'S HAPPENED.
BUT WHAT IF THOSE CONVERSATIONS
HAD TEAFN PLACE BEFORE -- TAKEN
PLACE BEFORE THOSE INCIDENTS.
I THINK IT WAS IMPORTANT
IMPORTANT FOR EVERY TASK FORCE
MEMBER TO SPEAK TRUTH TO
WHATEVER THE ISSUE WAS.
YOU HEARD SOME REALLY PERSONAL
CONVERSATION.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S
LIKE TO BE IN A CAR DRIVING DOWN
THE STREET BLACK AND YOUR CELL
PHONE IS MISTAKEN AS A GUN.
LIKE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
BECAUSE YOU'RE WHITE.
AND SO WE WENT LOOKING FOR
EMPATHY.
WE WERE LOOKING AT I CAN BEGIN
TO UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS AN
ISSUE, WHY THEY'RE PRESSING ON
CERTAIN REFORMS, WHY IS THAT
NECESSARY FOR COMMUNITIES OF
COLOR.
IN THAT ROOM, WE HAD MEMBERS
CRYING AT DIFFERENT TIMES
THROUGH THE PROCESS.
WE HAD MEMBERS YELLING AT
DIFFERENT TIMES.
WE HAD MEMBERS NEED TO GET UP
AND STRETCH AND WALK OUT AND
COME BACK IN.
WHAT YOU SAW IN THAT ROOM WAS
REALITY.
THIS IS HARD WORK.
SO WHAT I WANT YOU TO REALLY
UNDERSTAND IS IT TOOK THE TASK
FORCE, MEMBERS FROM THE
COMMUNITY TO COME INTO THE
CAPITOL AND WORK WITH LAW
ENFORCEMENT AND ELECTED OFFICIAL
S TO WORK ON A
BIPARTISAN PIECE OF LEGISLATION
IN ORDER TO MOVE ANY POLICE
REFORMS ACROSS THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN.
>> DO YOU SEE CHALLENGES AHEAD
AS THIS -- AS THESE
RECOMMENDATIONS DO MOVE TOWARDS
THE LEGISLATURE, A REPUBLICAN-
CONTROLLED
LEGISLATURE?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SO THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE
REPUBLICANS ARE IN CONTROL OF
BOTH HOUSES AND OUR GOVERNOR IS
A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR.
BUT BECAUSE WE WORKED BIPARTISAN
WITH COMMUNITY, WHY ON EARTH
WOULD OUR COLLEAGUES NOT WANT TO
ACCEPT RECOMMENDATIONS FROM
COMMUNITY THAT HAS SPENT SEVEN
MONTHS BECOMING EXPERTS IN THESE
TOPICS AND IN THESE SCENARIOS.
AND, REMEMBER, THIS LEGISLATION
WAS DRAFTED WITH PEOPLE OF COLOR
IN THAT ROOM.
WHO WOULD ARGUE WITH THAT?
>> THE TASK FORCE HOPES THE
RECOMMENDATIONS WILL BE
INTRODUCED AS LEGISLATIVE BILLS
IN MAY.
MARISA WOJCIK'S COMPLETE
INTERVIEW WITH REPRESENTATIVE
STUBBS AS WELL AS CONTINUING
COVERAGE OF WISCONSIN POLICE
REFORM EFFORTS CAN BE FOUND AT
pbswisconsin.org AND THEN BY
CLICKING ON THE NEWS PAGE.
AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR
TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.