PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> THE BALLOT RECOUNT RESUMES
AFTER A THANKSGIVING DAY BREAK.
EVEN IN THE FACE OF A
LAST-MINUTE TRUMP-SUPPORTED
LEGAL CHALLENGE BEFORE THE STATE
SUPREME COURT.
COVID CASTING A GRIM SHADOW OVER
THE HOLIDAYS.
TOUGH PANDEMIC TIMES MAKE IT
EVEN HARDER FOR THOSE IN NEED TO
FEED THEIR FAMILIES.
AND THE VIRUS HAS AMPLIFIED
DEPRESSION AND OTHER MENTAL
ILLNESS, DARKENING THE HOLIDAYS
FOR MANY AND CONTRIBUTING TO THE
TIPPING POINT FOR HEALTH CARE
PROVIDERS.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," A LAW
SCHOOL LAW PROFESSOR POINTS TO
RACIAL IN INJUSTICES.
WE TALK TO A RELIEF WORKER ABOUT
THE TOLL COVID IS TAKING ON
WISCONSINITES.
AND THE PER PERSPECTIVE OF THE
WISCONSIN VOTE FROM POLITICAL
SCIENTIST KATHERINE CRAMER.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
NOVEMBER 27.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
>> THE WISCONSIN RECOUNT IN DANE
AND MILWAUKEE COUNTIES CONTINUED
THROUGH THE WEEK, EVEN AS THE
11TH HOUR LAWSUIT ASKED THE
STATE PREEM SUPREME COURT TO THROW OUT
THE STATE ELECTION RESULTS AND
HAVE THE LEGISLATURE PICK
WISCONSIN'S PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTORS.
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN PAID FOR THE
RECOUNT IN ONLY TWO COUNTIES,
DEMOCRATIC, POPULATION WITH THE
HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF VOTERS OF
COLOR.
OUR NEXT GUEST IS A LAW
PROFESSOR AT MARQUETTE
UNIVERSITY.
HIS EXPERTISE: VOTERS ON THE
MARGINS.
ATIBA ELLIS JOINS US NOW.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> YOUR WORK FOCUSES ON
DISENFRANCHISEMENT OF VOTERS.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN CHOOSING THE COUNTING
WITH THE HIGHEST POPULATIONS OF
PEOPLE OF COLOR FOR RECOUNT?
>> WELL, I THINK IT ECHOS SORT
OF THE WORST DAYS OF RACIAL
DISCRIMINATION THAT WE SAW A
CENTURY AGO.
DURING THE JIM CROW ERA WE OFTEN
SEE CASES WHERE THE STRUCTURES
OF ELECTIONS WERE SHIFTED IN
ORDER TO DISENFRANCHISE
AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND THAT
STRUCTURES WERE MANIPULATED TO
EITHER DISENFRANCHISE ENTIRELY
OR MARGINALIZE THE VOTING VOICE
OF PEOPLE OF COLOR.
THIS HAS DISTURBING ECHOS OF
THAT PATTERN BY TARGETING THE
COUNTIES WHERE THE LARGEST
POPULATIONS OF PEOPLE OF COLOR
ARE IN THIS STATE WITH THE HOAX
OF OVERTURNING AN ELECTION,
YOU'RE EFFECTIVELY NULLIFYING
THOSE VOTES.
AT LEAST THAT'S HOW IT CAN BE
SEEN.
I REALIZE THAT INTENTION IS
OFTEN AN ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO
THESE SORTS OF CONCERNS, BUT ALL
TOO OFTEN THE WAY THE LAW ASKS
THESE QUESTIONS IS WHAT'S THE
EFFECT?
AND IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THE
EFFECT OF EXCLUDING VOTERS IN
DANE AND MILWAUKEE COUNTY MIGHT
BE TO TARGET PEOPLE OF COLOR
SPECIFICALLY.
>> NOW, THE KINDS OF BALLOTS THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN SOUGHT TO THROW
OUT INCLUDED THOSE DESCRIBING
THEMSELVES AS INDEFINITELY
CONFINED, WHERE A VOTER I.D. WAS
NOT REQUIRED.
WHAT'S THE CAMPAIGN'S MESSAGE
HEREN YOUR MIND?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE
CAMPAIGN IS TRYING TO IN ESSENCE
ARGUE AFTER THE FACT THAT THE
RULES OUGHT TO BE CHANGED.
I MEAN, PART OF THE BACKGROUND
HERE IS THAT THE REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATURE AND THE WISCONSIN
ELECTIONS COMMISSION BASICALLY
AGREED TO THIS FORM OF
INTERPRETATION AND WAS CERTAINLY
THE FORM OF INTERPRETATION IN
2016 AND THEY'VE PROCEEDED IN
THE SAME WAY IN 2020.
SO IT SEEMS DISINGENUOUS TO SAY
THE LEAST TO SUDDENLY CHANGE THE
RULES BECAUSE THE RESULT THAT
YOU LIKED IN 2016 ISN'T THE
RESULT THAT YOU LIKE IN 2020.
>> HOW HAS THE VOTER I.D. LAW
ITSELF IMPACTED VOTING IN
MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES?
>> WELL, I THINK IT PUTS THEM AT
RISK.
OFTEN THE LITIGATION AROUND
VOTER I.D. IS ABOUT WHETHER
COMMUNITIES OF COLOR,
AFRICAN-AMERICAN, LATINX
COMMUNITIES HAVE I.D. IN THE
SAME PROPORTION AS THE MAJORITY
COMMUNITY.
AND SO THAT RUNS THE RISK OF
DISENFRANCHISING.
AND CERTAINLY THERE WAS EVEN A
2016 STUDY IN MILWAUKEE THAT
POINTED TO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE
PERCEIVED THE VOTER I.D. LAW AS
HAVING A DISENFRANCHISING
EFFECT.
AND THAT AFFECTED THEIR
BEHAVIOR.
IT'S HARD TO FIND THE HARD
NUMBERS, BUT WITH THAT MESSAGE
OUT THERE IT RISKS
DISENFRANCHISING.
>> AS TO THE RECOUNT, WISCONSIN
ELECTION OFFICIALS SAY THERE
WERE FEW IF ANY IRREGULARITIES.
WHAT IN YOUR MIND IS THE END
GAME FOR THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN NOW
THAT THE TRANSITION TO
PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN IS IN
PROGRESS?
>> THE TRANSITION IS IN
PROGRESS.
THE OTHER STATES THAT WERE
CLOSELY CONTESTED ARE CERTIFYING
THEIR ELECTION RESULTS.
IT'S HARD TO SEE A WIN HERE,
FIRST OF ALL, GIVEN THE
NARROWNESS AND ARGUABLE DOUBT
THAT THESE LEGAL THEORIES HAVE.
I MEAN, LOOKING AT THE RECORD,
THE TRUMP LEGAL TEAM HAS
BASICALLY LOST ALMOST ALL OF ITS
LITIGATION BASED ON SIMILAR
THEORIES.
IT MAY WELL BE ABOUT SENDING A
MESSAGE ABOUT DEMOCRACY.
AND I FEEL THAT THIS MESSAGE
COMES WITH SOWING DISTRUST IN
THE WORK THAT THE ELECTIONS
COMMISSION HAS DONE AND THAT ALL
THE HARD WORK ELECTIONS
ADMINISTRATORS DO IN WISCONSIN.
AND THAT MISTRUST CAN HAVE
CONSEQUENCES GOING FORWARD.
>> YEAH.
ABSOLUTELY.
BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO ASK, WHAT
KIND OF TASTE DOES ALL OF THIS
LEAVE IN THE MOUTHS OF VOTERS IN
THE AFTERMATH OF ALL OF THIS
ALLEGED WIDESPREAD FRAUD?
AS WE LOOK TOWARD THE FUTURE?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT THERE IS
GOING TO BE A MEMORY OF DOUBT
BEING SOWN.
I THINK THAT THIS TALK ABOUT
VOTER FRAUD, WHICH USED TO BE
FRINGE AND USED TO BE LEFT UP TO
THE COURTS TO DISMISS, IS NOW IN
THE PUBLIC'S MIND.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS GOING
TO MAKE PEOPLE DOUBT AND
CERTAINLY EVEN SURVEYS ARE
SHOWING THAT DOUBT ABOUT THIS
RESULT IS BASED ON WHO DO YOU
BELIEVE.
BUT THE OBJECTIVE FACTS ARE THAT
THIS ELECTION HAS BEEN SECURE
AND IT HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE
DESPITE THE CHALLENGES POSED BY
THE LAWS AND BY THE PANDEMIC.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR
EXPERTISE, PROFESSOR ELLIS.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THIS WEEK SAW WISCONSIN REACH
ANOTHER GRIM MILESTONE IN THE
COVID-19 PANDEMIC.
TUESDAY MARKED THE FIRST TIME
THE STATE REPORTED MORE THAN 1 #
ON 0 -- 100 DEATHS ON A SINGLE
DAY.
AS THE PANDEMIC CONTINUES TO PUT
PRESSURE ON HEALTH CARE SYSTEM,
TREVOR KELLER SPOKE WITH
FRONTLINE WORKERS.
>> LAST WEEK A NURSE TALKING
ABOUT HER STRUGGLES WENT VIRAL.
>> AT THE END OF THE DAY I WOULD
GO HOME AND GO STRAIGHT TO THE
SHOWER.
PART WAS TO PROTECT MY FAMILY,
BUT THE OTHER PART WAS SO I
COULD GO CRY IN THE SHOWER.
I'M NOW IN A MORE NUMB STATE,
BUT I WONDER HOW LONG WE CAN
MAINTAIN AT THIS PACE BEFORE WE
CRUMBLE.
AND WHO WILL WANT TO BE IN
HEALTH CARE AFTER THIS IS ALL
DONE?
AND WHAT KIND OF PTSD WILL WE
ALL SUFFER?
I WORRY ABOUT US AS A WHOLE.
>> IT'S A SCENE PLAYING OUT IN
HOSPITALS ACROSS WISCONSIN.
CASE NUMBERS AND
HOSPITALIZATIONS RISING.
HEALTH CARE WORKERS PUSHED TO
THE LIMIT.
I SPOKE WITH THREE DOCTORS FROM
DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE
ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE SEEING AND
FEELING NINE MONTHS INTO A
PANDEMIC.
>> WE'RE TIRED AND FRUSTRATED
BECAUSE I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN
PREACHING FOR NINE MONTHS FOR
PEOPLE TO WEAR MASKS.
I GO AROUND AND I SEE PEOPLE NOT
FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES AND
THEN I SEE ON THE NEWS THESE BIG
EVENTS WHERE PEOPLE GET TOGETHER
AND DON'T WEAR A MASK.
WHEN I GO TO WORK, I SEE THE
DIRECT RESULT OF THAT.
>> ALL THREE DOCTORS SAY THAT
MANY DAYS THEIR COVID UNITS ARE
FULL.
AT UW HOSPITAL, THERE'S WORRY
THAT THEY'RE TEETERING TOWARD A
TIPPING POINT.
>> FOR A LONG TIME, THAT FELT
LIKE SOMETHING THAT WAS FAR AWAY
AND THAT IT WOULDN'T COME TO
THAT HERE.
BUT IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THAT
ANYMORE.
WE ARE REALLY REACHING OUR
CAPACITY LIMITS SOON.
AND WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO CUT
CORNERS OR MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS
ABOUT WHO NEEDS TO BE TREATED OR
NOT.
>> BUT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT
HOSPITAL BEDS.
>> I THINK WHAT'S REALLY MAKING
IT HARD, THOUGH, IS THE NUMBER
OF STAFF THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE
OUT EITHER ILL OR EXPOSED OR ON
QUARANTINE.
SO ALL OF US ARE NOT ONLY
WORKING HARDER, BUT WE'RE
WORKING MORE, MORE DAYS THAN
WE'RE TYPICALLY USED TO.
SO THAT'S A CHALLENGE.
THAT'S A REAL CHALLENGE.
>> ALL THREE DOCTORS WORRY
HOLIDAY GATHERINGS WILL ONLY
MAKE THINGS WORSE.
>> AND SO IF YOU GET TEN PEOPLE
IN A ROOM, THERE'S A 20% TO 30%
CHANCE SOMEBODY WILL HAVE IT,
CHANCE MITT IT TO OTHERS.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE PLAYING
RUSSIAN ROULETTE.
>> 2020 HAS BEEN A HARD YEAR FOR
HEALTH CARE WORKERS.
>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY HAS
THOSE MOMENTS WHERE YOU KIND OF
CATCH YOUR BREATH AND JUST KIND
OF FEEL THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF
IT.
>> ON SUNDAY, UW HEALTH TOOK OUT
A TWO-PAGE AD IN THE WISCONSIN
STATE JOURNAL URGING PEOPLE TO
TAKE COVID PRECAUTIONS MORE
SERIOUSLY.
IT'S A MESSAGE FRONTLINE WORKERS
AROUND THE STATE HOPE
WISCONSINITES HERE
WISCONSINITES HEAR AND HEED TO
AVOID A HOLIDAY HOSPITAL VISIT.
>> WEAR MASKS, WASH YOUR HANDS,
STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE.
>> REPORTING FOR "HERE AND NOW,"
I'M TREVOR KELLER.
>> FRONTLINE WORKERS CONFRONTING
DANGER AND DEATH EVERY DAY.
BUT EVEN PEOPLE NOT PUTTING
THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE WHEN
THEY REPORT TO WORK ARE
EXPERIENCING INCREASED STRUGGLES
WITH MENTAL HEALTH BECAUSE MAYBE
THEY'RE OUT OF WORK OR THE FEAR
OF A PRESSING PANDEMIC AND ITS
ISOLATION CLOSES IN.
WE CHECK IN ON MENTAL HEALTH
CONCERNS DURING THE PANDEMIC NOW
WITH DR. NED KALIN, CHAIR OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHIATRY AT THE
UW SCHOOL OF MEDICINE.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME,
FREDERICA.
>> SO THERE ARE MYRIAD REPORTS
ABOUT THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF
THE PANDEMIC ON MENTAL HEALTH,
INCLUDING NUMBERS THAT SOMETHING
LIKE 40% OF AMERICANS ARE
STRUGGLING WITH IT OR DRUG ABUSE
AND 75% OF YOUNG PEOPLE ARE ALSO
STRUGGLING.
WHAT ARE YOU SEEING?
>> SO WE'RE SEEING THE SAME
THING HERE IN MADISON, IN
WISCONSIN, AND IN OUR COMMUNITY,
AN INCREASED NEED FOR MENTAL
HEALTH SERVICES, A TREMENDOUS
AMOUNT OF STRESS IN THE
COMMUNITY AND ALL OF THE THINGS
YOU'VE ENUMERATED ARE CRITICAL
WHEN THINKING ABOUT THE CHRONIC
AND SEVERE STRESS PEOPLE ARE
FACING.
SO IT'S AN ONGOING STRESSORS.
IT'S COMING IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
THERE'S SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY AND
LOSS AND WORRY THAT IS SORT OF
EXPECTED THAT YOU WOULD BE
SEEING IT.
WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THIS AS THE
NEXT EPIDEMIC FROM THE COVID
AFTERMATH.
>> IF THERE IS SO MUCH DEMAND,
WHAT IS THAT LIKE FOR FRONTLINE
WORKERS DOING THE WORK OF
TREATING COVID PATIENTS?
>> SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO
KEEP IN MIND THAT THE FRONTLINE
WORKERS ARE ESPECIALLY STRESSED
AND OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE VERY
CRITICAL FOR ALL OF US FROM THE
STANDPOINT OF OUR MAKING IT
THROUGH THIS IN AS HEALTHY A WAY
AS POSSIBLE.
AT THE UNIVERSITY WE'RE WORKING
HARD TO SUPPORT OUR COLLEAGUES
ON THE FRONT LINES AND ARE
ACTUALLY OFFERING SUPPORT GROUPS
AND HELPING THEM BUILD
RESILIENCE AND A VARIETY OF
OTHER MEASURES THAT WE CAN DO TO
HELP SUPPORT AND HELP PEOPLE
WORKING AND FEELING OKAY.
>> SO ECONOMIC CONDITIONS ARE
OUT OF THE CONTROL OF
INDIVIDUALS AND LOSS OF JOBS,
NOT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY FOR
BASIC NEEDS OBVIOUSLY WOULD
BRING ON ANXIETY.
HOW DOES THAT DOVETAIL WITH THE
FEAR OF THIS LURKING CORONAVIRUS
OR WORSE THE LOSS OF LOVED ONES?
IT'S JUST UNRELENTING IT WOULD
SEEM.
>> YOU'VE GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT.
IT'S UNRELENTING AND MULTIPLE
STRESSORS ARE COMING TOGETHER,
ANY ONE OF WHICH WOULD BE A HUGE
STRESSOR.
THE IDEA THAT ALL THESE ARE
OCCURRING AT THE SAME TIME, THAT
THEY'RE GG, THAT ONGOING AND WE DON'T
KNOW WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO STOP
IS OVERWHELMING.
AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM FROM THE
STANDPOINT OF THE INCREASED
DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY AND
SUBSTANCE USE THAT WE'RE SEEING.
>> HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING
LIKE THIS?
>> NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS
AND IT'S REMARKABLE.
THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS THAT
MANY PEOPLE ARE VERY RESILIENT
AS WELL AND FIGURED OUT WAYS TO
ADAPT.
WE WANT TO HELP PEOPLE DRAW ON
THEIR OWN STRENGTHS IN A WAY
THAT CAN MAKE THEM AS RESILIENT
AS POSSIBLE DURING THIS REALLY
DIFFICULT TIME.
>> WHY IS IT PARTICULARLY HARD
AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THE
NUMBERS I'VE LOOKED AT FOR YOUNG
PEOPLE, EVEN CHILDREN?
>> SO EVERYBODY'S AFFECTED, BUT
YOUNG PEOPLE I THINK HAVE LESS
OF A PERSPECTIVE AND LESS OF AN
UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S
HAPPENING AT TIMES.
THEY REALLY REQUIRE SIGNIFICANT
STRUCTURE.
NOT BEING IN SCHOOL OR NOT BEING
IN SCHOOL THE SAME WAY, NOT
HAVING THE SAME PLAYMATES,
HAVING TO WEAR A MASKS, ALL OF A
SUDDEN BEING IN A WORLD WHERE
YOU'VE GOT TO BE SCARED OF
CATCHING SOMETHING THAT YOU
CAN'T EVEN SEE AND DYING FROM
THAT, IT'S EXTREMELY HEAVY-DUTY
AND I THINK THE YOUNGER A PERSON
IS, THE HARDER IT IS TO
COMPREHEND THAT.
CHILDREN NEED SUPPORT.
IT'S JUST REALLY, REALLY
DIFFICULT.
>> WITH LESS THAN A MINUTE LEFT,
DOCTOR, HOW CAN WE ALL HELP?
>> SO I THINK THE FIRST THING IS
TO BE OPEN TO THE IDEA THAT THIS
IS A REALLY TOUGH TIME AND IT'S
OKAY TO STRUGGLE AND IT'S OKAY
TO HAVE SOME AIRCHG ANXIETY AND A
LITTLE DEPRESSION.
THE SECOND THING IS TO GO OUT OF
OUR WAY TO REACH OUT AND SUPPORT
EACH OTHER.
EVEN THOUGH WE'RE PHYSICALLY
DISTANCING DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T
MAKE THAT EXTRA PHONE CALL THAT
YOU THINK YOU WANT TO DO BUT YOU
DECIDED YESTERDAY YOU WEREN'T
GOING TO DO.
AND REALLY THINKING ABOUT
ACTIVITIES THAT CAN BE HELPFUL
FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THINGS
LIKE EXERCISE, WALKING,
DISTRACTING YOURSELF FROM THE
NEWS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE BASIC THINGS, BUT IF YOU
DO THEM EVERY DAY THEY CAN ADD
UP AND HELP BUILD YOUR
RESILIENCE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR
INFORMATION, DR. NED KALIN.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
THANK YOU.
>> AS EVERYONE HAS SAID, THE
THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY WAS VERY
DIFFERENT THIS YEAR, OR AT LEAST
PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS HOPE
EXTENDED FAMILIES AND FRIENDS
DIDN'T CROWD IN TOGETHER.
BUT FOR A GROWING NUMBER OF
PEOPLE LAID OFF FROM WORK, THE
IDEA OF A FEAST-LIKE SPREAD WAS
OUT OF THE QUESTION.
FOOD INSECURITY ACROSS THE
NATION AND HERE AT HOME MEANS
INCREASING NUMBERS OF PEOPLE ARE
NEWLY ACCEPTING HELP BY WAY OF
FOOD PANTRIES OR DONATIONS.
OUR NEXT GUEST OVERSEES THE
LARGEST HUNGER RELIEF
ORGANIZATION IN THE STATE,
SERVING MORE THAN 4,000 PEOPLE.
PATTI HABECK IS PRESIDENT OF
FEEDING AMERICA.
WHAT IS THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW
WITH PEOPLE EXPERIENCING FOOD
INSECURITY IN WISCONSIN?
>> WE'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING
LIKE THIS.
THE NEED IS GREAT AND IT STILL
IS GROWING TO SOME EXTENT.
AND RELIEF RIGHT NOW IS A TOUGH
PLACE TO WORK.
40% OF THE PEOPLE VISITING FOOD
PANTRIES HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE
HUNGER RELIEF SYSTEM BEFORE,
ADDING AN ADDITIONAL LAYER OF
STRESS FOR FAMILIES.
>> SO WHO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT
ARE KIND OF NEWLY REACHING OUT?
>> SO A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS WHO
EITHER LOST THEIR EMPLOYMENT OR
FOR HEALTH REASONS ARE UNABLE TO
WORK.
IT'S FAMILIES WHO HAVE BEEN IN
THE SYSTEM WHO ARE EXPERIENCING
EXTENDED OR MORE CHALLENGES IN
THEIR FAMILIES.
IT MIGHT BE FAMILIES WHO HAVE
COLLEGE KIDS WHO HAVE RETURNED
HOME OR FAMILIES WHO HAVE YOUNG
CHILDREN WHO RELY ON THE SCHOOL
SYSTEM FOR FOOD AND NOW HAVE
MORE PRESSURE ON THEIR
HOUSEHOLD.
>> IT'S HARD FOR EVERYONE NEWLY
REACHING OUT OR THOSE WHO HAVE
BEEN DOING THAT ALL ALONG AND
HAVE NEW NEEDS.
BUT IS IT RURAL AND URBAN AND
EVERYWHERE IN BETWEEN?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE TERRITORY THAT WE COVER HAS
URBAN AREAS IN SOUTHEAST
WISCONSIN AS WELL AS THE RURAL
AREAS AND EVEN SMALL METRO
AREAS.
AND WHAT I'VE SEEN WHEN I GO OUT
IN COMMUNITY IS HUNGER LOOKS
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IN AN URBAN
AREA VERSUS RURAL, BUT THE
ISSUES ARE THE SAME.
FAMILIES ARE FACING REALLY
CHALLENGING TIMES NO MATTER
WHERE YOU ARE.
RESOURCES ARE SLIM.
AND SO OUR WORK IS NECESSARY.
AND THE WORK OF THE NETWORK OF
FOOD PANTRIES IS MORE NECESSARY
NOW THAN WE'VE EVER SEEN.
>> I KNOW A TOTAL OF SOMETHING
LIKE $75 MILLION HAS COME
THROUGH THE STATE AND DEPARTMENT
OF AGRICULTURE TO HELP.
IS THIS ENOUGH TO MEET DEMAND?
>> IT HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE
ASSISTANCE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WOULD HAVE
DONE IF THE STATE AND FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HADN'T COME UP WITH
SOME DOLLARS TO HELP AND ASSIST
IN THE HUNGER RELIEF.
BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND
THAT IT'S STILL ONLY A PORTION
OF WHAT WE ACTUALLY NEED.
WE STILL RELY ON MANY FACTORS
AND GROWERS AND GROCERS AND
RETAILERS TO FILL THE GAP.
FOOD IS A CONSUMABLE COMMODITY.
SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY WORKING TO
PROVIDE THAT NUTRITIOUS FOOD,
PARTICULARLY DURING THE
PANDEMIC.
NUTRITION MATTERS.
IT MATTERS ALL THE TIME, BUT
PARTICULARLY RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE REALLY WORKING TO GET THAT
HIGH NUTRITION, DENSE FOOD OUT
INTO THE FAMILIES.
>> SO WHAT KIND OF FOOD CAN BE
PRODUCED FROM PRODUCERS TO SHOCK
THE SHELVES OF -- STOCK THE
SHELVES OF A PANTRY?
>> RIGHT NOW WE ARE PUSHING FOR
FRESH PRODUCE.
WE KNOW THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE
BIGGEST PRODUCTS, BEST PRODUCTS
THAT WE CAN GET OUT THERE.
PROTEINS, SO THINGS LIKE MEATS
AND PEANUT BUTTER AND NUTS AND
GRAINS.
ALSO DAIRY PRODUCTS.
WE'VE BEEN PUSHING IN THOSE
THREE CATEGORIES.
BUT THEN WE ALSO HAVE TO WORK ON
SHELF STABLE ITEMS BECAUSE SOME
HOUSEHOLDS DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO
PREPARE FOODS, SO EASY TO HEAT
UP SOUPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT
HAVE BEEN REALLY NEEDED RIGHT
NOW.
>> JUST BRIEFLY, WHAT MORE NEEDS
TO BE DONE TO HELP FILL THIS
DEMAND?
>> THE FIRST THING WE ALWAYS SAY
IS REALLY IS NECESSARY TO BRING
THESE COVID NUMBERS DOWN.
STARTING INYOUR OWN HOUSEHOLD,
WHAT CAN YOU DO TO PREVENT THE
SPREAD.
THEN WE'RE ABLE TO KEEP THE
SYSTEM HEALTHY AND REACH OUT.
BEYOND THAT, WE ALWAYS SAY FOOD,
FUN AND FRIENDS.
IF YOU CAN DONATE TIME TO
VOLUNTEER AND FUNDS TO SUPPORT
OUR PURCHASING PROGRAMS RIGHT
NOW, THAT WOULD BE REALLY
NECESSARY.
>> PATTI HABECK, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH AND THANKS FOR YOUR WORK.
>> THANK YOU.
>> NOW TO POLITICS AND
REFLECTIONS ON THE 20EU6 2020 VOTE BY
AUTHOR KATHERINE CRAMER.
THE POLITICS OF RESENTMENT
EXPLORED HOW IEWFERL RURAL WISCONSINITES
VIEWED THEMSELVES.
THE BOOK'S RELEASE NOT ONLY
COINCIDED WITH THE ELECTION OF
DONALD TRUMP.
IT LARGELY PREDICTED THE
CLASS-BASED IDENTITY POLITICS
THAT LED TO HIS PRESIDENCY.
WE CHECK IN WITH PROFESSOR
KATHERINE CRAMER FOR HER TAKE ON
THE CURRENT WISCONSIN POLITICAL
LANDSCAPE AND THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR BEING HERE.
>> IT'S MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.
>> SO TODAY POST 2020 PLEKS ELECTION
YOU SAY THE SHOCK OF THE
CLOSENESS OF THE ELECTION
SUGGESTS WE ARE STILL UNAWARE OF
THE DEPTH OF THIS RESENTMENT.
WHO WAS SHOCKED BY THE
CLOSENESS?
>> I THINK COMMENTATORS LIKE
OURSELVES, RIGHT, PEOPLE WHO ARE
CLOSE POLITICAL OBSERVERS WHO
TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING
ON IN THE ELECTORATE AND
NEVERTHELESS THE OUTCOME OF THE
2020 ELECTION WAS A BIT OF A
SURPRISE.
SO THERE ARE UNDER CURRENTS THAT
WE STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND.
>> WHO THEN IS RESENTFUL RIGHT
NOW AND WHY?
>> WELL, HONESTLY, I THINK IT'S
A BROAD SWATH OF PEOPLE.
SO IN MY 2016 BOOK, AS YOU
MENTIONED, I FOCUSED ON THE
RURAL VERSUS URBAN DIVIDE IN
WISCONSIN.
BUT IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE IN
RURAL WISCONSIN WHO ARE FEELING
RESENTFUL.
I THINK THE THINGS WE'VE
EXPERIENCED IN THIS STATE OVER
THE SUMMER WITH RESPECT TO RACE
RELATIONS UNDERSCORES THAT THERE
ARE PEOPLE IN OUR URBAN SETTINGS
WHO ARE FEELING QUITE RESENTFUL,
TOO.
THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE FEELING AS
THOUGH THEIR GOVERNMENT, THE
PEOPLE IN CHARGE, THE PEOPLE
MAKING DECISIONS DON'T
UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGES THAT
THEY'RE FACING.
AND MY GOODNESS, AFTER THIS
PANDEMIC I THINK THAT'S MORE
ACUTE THAN EVER.
>> WHO ARE THE CULTURAL ELITE?
>> THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT IS
THEY'RE THE PEOPLE WHO PUT THE
IDEAS OUT THERE FOR OTHER PEOPLE
TO CONSUME.
SO PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF, WHO
CREATE KNOWLEDGE AND COMMUNICATE
IT, PEOPLE IN THE NEWS MEDIA WHO
REPORT ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE
WORLD AND COMMUNICATE TO OTHER
PEOPLE.
BUT ALSO I THINK PEOPLE WHO
CREATE POPULAR CULTURE CONTENT,
WHETHER IT BE MOVIES OR
TELEVISION, THE BOOKS WE READ,
BUT ALSO OUR DECISION-MAKERS,
PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT, PEOPLE IN
BUSINESS, JUST THE PEOPLE IN
CHARGE WHO ARE MAKING IDEAS AND
COMMUNICATING THEM TO THE
BROADER PUBLIC.
>> SO WHY DO PEOPLE GET LEFT OUT
OF THE ELITE?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO
WITH ECONOMIC INEQUALITY.
I THINK JUST AS TIME GOES ON,
SINCE ROUGHLY THE EARLY '70s,
THERE'S JUST THIS INCREASING GAP
BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE
RESOURCES AND THOSE WHO DON'T.
AND THE CULTURAL ELITE, WE TEND
TO BE PEOPLE WITH RESOURCES.
AND THE WAY WE LIVE OUR LIVES,
HOW WE SPEND OUR TIME, WHERE WE
LIVE IS OFTEN VERY SEPARATE
PHYSICALLY, IN TERMS OF THE
INFORMATION WE CONSUME.
IT'S SEPARATE FROM PEOPLE WHO
DON'T HAVE RESOURCES.
SO WE'RE OFTEN NOT SEEING THEIR
LIVES.
>> YOU HEARKEN BACK TO THE
1970s, BUT HASN'T IT ALWAYS
BEEN THIS WAY, THIS KIND OF
SPLIT?
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
IF WE THINK ABOUT THE RURAL
VERSUS URBAN DIVIDE IN
PARTICULAR, YOU MIGHT SAY, YES,
EVER SINCE THERE WERE THINGS
CALLED CITIES, THERE WERE PEOPLE
IN THE CITIES AND PEOPLE
OUTSIDE.
BUT THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT
THAT HAS CHANGED HERE IN
WISCONSIN AND AROUND THE
COUNTRY, AND JUST EVEN IN THE
PAST TWO DECADES WE CAN SEE IN
WISCONSIN WITH RESPECT TO
POLITICS, THERE'S JUST AN
INCREASINGLY CRISPER DIVIDE
BETWEEN THE WAY OUR RURAL
COUNTIES ARE VOTING AND THE WAY
OUR URBAN COUNTIES ARE VOTING
AND THAT WAS CERTAINLY TRUE IN
2020.
EVEN THE CONTRAST BETWEEN 2016
AND 2020 SHOWS THERE'S A DIVIDE
IN WHAT PEOPLE WANT, WHETHER
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POLITICS OR
PERHAPS MORE GENERALLY THAN
THAT.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S ALWAYS
BEEN THIS DIVIDED.
>> ISN'T THERE MORE KIND OF
VITRIOL NOW, EVEN VIOLENCE WITH
THIS DIVIDE?
>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE.
AND SO VIOLENCE, BUT IT'S SMALL
THINGS LIKE OUR ABILITY TO TALK
WITH ONE ANOTHER, RIGHT?
SO IN A RECENT MARQUETTE POLL,
ROUGHLY A THIRD OF THE WISCONSIN
POPULATION REPORTS NOT TALKING
TO PEOPLE, PEOPLE CLOSE TO THEM
IN THEIR LIVES, ABOUT POLITICS,
BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO
THESE DAYS.
AND SO I THINK THERE IS MORE
VITRIOL.
THERE'S MORE RESENTMENT.
THERE'S MORE VITRIOL AND
UNFORTUNATELY MORE VIOLENCE,
TOO, YEAH.
>> WE TALK ABOUT ALL THESE
ISSUES AND WE TALK ABOUT
RESENTMENT, BUT THERE'S GOOD
CAUSE FOR THAT RESENTMENT.
IT'S NOT AS THOUGH PEOPLE LIKE
US THAT YOU SUGGEST THAT WE ARE
IN THE CULTURAL ELITE SHOULD
SAY, OH, GET OVER IT.
OF COURSE YOU CAN DO THIS IF YOU
WANT.
>> RIGHT.
NO.
THAT'S TRUE.
WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT,
NOT JUST BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE AND
VITRIOL, BUT BECAUSE THERE IS --
THERE'S A REASON THAT PEOPLE ARE
FEELING RESENTFUL.
AND WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT
IS THAT PEOPLE ARE FEELING THAT
THE CHALLENGES THEY'RE FACING
ARE JUST INSURMOUNTABLE, THAT
THEY'RE FEELING THAT THEY NEED
TO TURN TO VITRIOL AND VIOLENCE.
THERE ARE IMPORTANT SIGNALS FOR
US TO LISTEN TO.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
KATHERINE CRAMER, THANKS VERY
MUCH AND THANKS FOR YOUR WORK.
>> OH, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> AS THE POST-ELECTION DUST
SETTLES, LOOK FOR POLITICAL
COVERAGE AT PBS WISCONSIN ORG
AND CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.
VISIT OUR PARTNER NEWS SITE AT
wiscontext.org.
THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A SAFE HOLIDAY WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.