- Police reform is just one of
the policy points Wisconsin
U.S. Representative Mark Pocan
has been pushing this week.
Pocan can also praises the
historic U.S.
Supreme Court decision that
the 1964 Civil Rights
Act does protect gay,
lesbian and transgender
employees from discrimination
based on sex while saying
there is more to be done.
Representative Mark Pocan
joined us earlier this week to
talk about those issues.
And thanks very much for being
here.
- Yeah. Thank you, Frederica.
Glad to.
- First of all, I wanted to get
your reaction to the U.S.
Supreme Court ruling blocking
the Trump administration from
ending the Deferred Action
for Childhood Arrivals.
- Yeah, it's been a good week
for the Supreme Court on a few
fronts, and this is one of
those where the president
unfortunately was using a
group of people to be
political leverage in
in his demand for a wall.
And you never can use people
like that and the president, of
course, did.
And the Supreme Court overruled
that ability for him
to try to make people who've
been here maybe since they were
two weeks old, two months old,
two years old.
They may not speak the language
of the country that they
originally came from.
And they were brought here at
no fault of their own.
And to say that you're going to
deport people like that made
no sense.
And I think now the
Supreme Court made sure that
Donald Trump also understands
that.
- What does it mean for people
in Wisconsin?
- Well, it means I think, that
anyone who's a DACA recipient
of which there are many-- I've
had interns in my office.
I've had people we've brought
to the State of the Union who
are DACA recipients.
And we've had others.
They're very active as
frontline essential workers
who are DACA recipients.
It tells them that they don't
have to worry about some
politician using their lives
as political fodder.
So I think it provides a sense
of relief.
But the real relief will happen
when, you know, there's a new
administration and a new
approach towards immigration.
And I know that Joe
Biden, for example, has said
in his first week in office,
we'll make sure that a DACA
recipients aren't used as
political leverage.
And I think that's an important
signal to people so they can
live their lives.
- On police reform, both the
House and Senate
have versions of bills that
are expected to head to the
floor next week.
What's your expectation that
common ground on these can
be found?
- Well, I would hope so.
I mean, you know, I think I've
seen some polling this week
that was really amazing and
very heartening that the public
get it.
They understand that we've had
racism that hasn't gone
away. You know, all the rallies
and the and the fights
from the 60s. We should be much
farther than we are and here we
are decades later.
And people really aren't
created or treated
as equal under the law in
too many cases.
So I think it's really
important that we
now-- sorry, I have a fly
going around me as we're
talking there.
But I think it's really
important that we have
legislation that addresses
things like chokeholds
and no knock warrants
for drug cases, that keeps
track of the police officers
who are causing problems.
That does all the things that
we need to. That's in the House
bill that we're gonna be taking
up next Thursday.
But some of those, I think, are
also going to be in the Senate
bill. At the end of the day,
we'll have to compromise to a
final bill but
public support is certainly
there, and I think we need to
rise to that.
- What's your reaction to the
historic Supreme Court ruling
this week that protects gay and
transgender workers?
- You know, it's it's another
issue that I was very heartened
to see.
You know, you shouldn't be
fired from your job simply for
who you are or who you love.
And that's what the Supreme
Court said. The problem is
in a majority of states, you
could be fired
for who you love.
You could lose your housing for
who you love. And there's a lot
of other ramifications when
you don't have a law like
Wisconsin had.
We were the first state in the
nation in 1982
to have a law protecting gays
and lesbians, but not
transgendered at the time.
It took seven more years for
another state to have a law
like that.
But we still have a majority of
states that don't have that in
place. So them saying that
in the Supreme Court protects
people on employment.
But we have so much more to
still do. And that's why we
have the Equality Act in
Congress.
It passed the House with
bipartisan support.
Mitch McConnell apparently has
put it in back of a truck and
driven it to Kentucky and
buried it in someone's
backyard. It's not coming up,
but we can get that done,
I think, with a different
Senate and a different president.
- What would the Equality Act
do?
The Equality Act basically is a
catch all of everything that's
not covered by marriage
equality under the law,
so that no matter where you
live, what state in this
nation, you'd be treated the
same. It includes
discrimination, housing,
employment, a whole bunch
of areas. It's a very
comprehensive bill.
And again, when we passed it in
the House, we had bipartisan
support. So the public is with
us on the bill.
It's just, you know, unfortunately,
some political leaders still
use this as a political
leverage point.
And again, I don't think you
should ever use people as
leverage.
- On COVID, you're blasting
President Trump for holding
this rally Saturday
in Tulsa,
but also for having people
who attended it sign liability
waivers.
But the question might be, why
shouldn't people get to make
the choice whether to attend
first of all and second
of all, whether they're OK with
signing this waiver?
- Well, I think it's irresponsible
for anyone, especially the
president, who knows-- should
know better when it comes to
COVID-19, that you can't have
a rally in an area with
increasing cases in an
indoor arena with a thousand
or more people.
He's talking 10,000 people.
And, you know, it's so
bad that you're asking them to
sign a waiver so you can't sue
you.
Everything about it stinks.
And, you know, he should have
better sense.
But by now, you know, we've
seen Donald Trump doesn't have
a lot of sense.
So therefore, I'm saying
through the Rallies Act
that if you try to do that in
a condition with a community
with 14 days or more of
increasing cases,
which is how we measure this in
an indoor facility with a
thousand more people, that
you're not allowed to have some
liability waiver to protect
yourself because you're doing
an event, because you should
have known better than to have
that event in the beginning.
And I think a lot of local
officials around the country
where people are talking about
these types of rallies don't
want them because it's not in
the best interest for the
public in those communities.
The president can fly in and
out. Any politician can do
that. But the people in Tulsa
or wherever else a rally is
being held are going to live
there with the consequences of
those actions.
- All right. We need to leave
it there. Representative Mark Pocan,
thanks very much.
- Sure. Thank you.