>> IN OUR CLOSER LOOK, THE TRIAL
OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IS
OVER.
ON WEDNESDAY, THE SENATE VOTED
ON TWO ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT,
ABUSE OF POWER AND OBSTRUCTION
OF CONGRESS.
THE SENATE DID NOT HAVE THE
TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY NEEDED TO
FIND THE PRESIDENT GUILTY ON
EITHER CHARGE, WITH THE VOTE
CAST ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ALONG
PARTY LINES.
THE PRESIDENT AS EXPECTED CAME
OUT SWINGING.
ONE DESCRIPTION: TRUMP ON
STEROIDS.
>> IT WAS EVIL.
IT WAS CORRUPT.
IT WAS DIRTY COPS.
IT WAS LEAKERS AND LIARS.
ADAM SCHIFF IS A VICIOUS,
HORRIBLE PERSON.
NANCY PEL LOSSSYUNANIMOUS -- PELOSI IS A
HORRIBLE PERSON.
>> RON JOHNSON AND TAMMY BALDWIN
SPOKE TO THEIR RESPECTIVE
POSITIONS AHEAD OF THE VOTE.
BALD WIN FOCUSING ON THE LACK OF
WITNESSES CALLED AND JOHNSON ON
THE LACK CRIME COMMITTED.
BOTH REFERENCED AN AUGUST 31
CONVERSATION WHERE THE SENATOR
CHALLENGED TRUMP'S MOTIVATIONS
FOR WITHHOLDING AID FROM
UKRAINE.
>> LAST MONTH, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S
FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY
ADVISER, JOHN BOLTON, PROVIDED
AN UNPUBLISHED MANUSCRIPT TO THE
WHITE HOUSE.
THE RECENT MEDIA REPORTS ABOUT
WHAT AMBASSADOR BOLTON COULD
HAVE TESTIFIED TO HAD HE NOT
BEEN BLOCKED AS A WITNESS GO TO
THE HEART OF THIS IMPEACHMENT
TRIAL.
>> I REACHED OUT TO JOHN BOLTON
AND SAID IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING
TO SAY, GET IT ON THE RECORD.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK TO OUR
COMMITTEE?
HE S HE'D ONLY RESPOND TO A
SUBPOENA, WHICH I RESPECT AS
WELL.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP TOLD
AMBASSADOR BOLTON IN AUGUST THAT
HE WANTED TO CONTINUE FREEZING
$391 MILLION IN SECURITY
ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE UNTIL THEY
HELPED WITH THE POLITICALS
INVESTIGATION.
HAD AMBASSADOR BOLTON TESTIFIED
TO THESE FACTS IN THIS TRIAL, IT
WOULD DIRECTLY CONTRADICT WHAT
THE PRESIDENT TOLD SENATOR
JOHNSON IN A PHONE CALL ON
AUGUST 31, 2019, WHERE,
ACCORDING TO SENATOR JOHNSON,
THE PRESIDENT SAID I WOULD NEVER
DO THAT.
WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
>> AND I'M THE ONE THAT RAISED
THE ISSUE.
MR. PRESIDENT, I HEARD THERE MAY
BE SOME POSSIBLE ARRANGEMENT IF
UKRAINE DOES SMK, SOMETHING, YOU
RELEASE THE HOLD, AND HE
IMMEDIATELY ANGRILY DENIED, NO,
I WOULD NEVER DO THAT.
NO WAY.
WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
>> JOHN BOLTON NOT ONLY HAS
DIRECT EVIDENCE THAT IMPLICATES
PRESIDENT TRUMP IN A CORRUPT
ABUSE OF POWER, HE HAS DIRECT
EVIDENCE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP
LIED TO ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES IN
AN ATTEMPT TO COVER IT UP.
>> TO ME, IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY
IMPACT.
I DON'T THINK WHATEVER JOHN SAYS
IS GOING TO REALLY AFFECT MY
EVALUATION.
AGAIN, WHAT WAS CHARGED IN THESE
TWO ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT IS
NOT IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE.
>> SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.
WHAT A WEEK.
WE NOW TAP INTO UW-MILWAUKEE
EMERITUS PROFESSOR AND POLITICAL
SCIENTIST MORDECAI LEE FOR HIS
TAKE ON WHAT'S AHEAD.
THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> SO SENATOR BALDWIN SAID IN NO
WAY SHOULD THE ACQUITTAL BE
VIEWED AS AN EXONERATION.
HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT THAT
RESONATES ESPECIALLY AS THE
PRESIDENT REACTS TO IT RIGHT
NOW?
>> IN WISCONSIN RIGHT NOW WE'RE
LIVING IN TWO DIFFERENT
REALITIES.
47% OF THE VOTERS LIKE TRUMP AND
AGREED WITH THE OUTCOME AND 47%
OF WISCONSIN WISCONSINITES AGREED WITH
SENATOR BALDWIN.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE TWO SHIPS
PASSING IN THE NIGHT.
THEY DON'T EVEN LIVE IN THE SAME
WORLD.
>> HOW MUCH DOES THIS EMBOLDEN
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS
SUPPORTERS?
>> WELL, I THINK IT EMBOLDENS
PRESIDENT TRUMP, BUT I'M NOT
SURE THERE'S NOT MUCH MORE TO EM
BOLD IN THE SENSE OF THIS HAS
BEEN HIS STYLE SINCE THE DAY HE
BECAME PRESIDENT.
HE'S A STREET FIGHTER.
HE NOT ONLY DISAGREES WITH HIS
OPPONENTS.
HE WANTS TO CRUSH THEM. HE IS RIGHT.
EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG.
THAT'S A STYLE.
I GUESS YOU MIGHT SAY IT'S
ALMOST LIKE A NEW YORKIE STYLE
THAT HE'S CARRIED THROUGHOUT HIS
PRESIDENCY.
SO WHEN HE CAME OUT SWINGING, IT
WAS THE SAME OLD TRUMP.
I'M SURE SOME OF YOUR VIEWERS
CAN COMPARE IT TO PRESIDENT
CLINTON THE DAY AFTER THE
IMPEACHMENT VOTE WHEN HE WAS
ACQUITTED.
HE CAME OUT AND HE APOLOGIZED TO
THE PUBLIC AND HE SAID HE WANTED
TO WORK WITH THE OTHER PARTY.
SUCH A DIFFERENCE.
>> DOES THE ACQUITTAL HURT
DEMOCRATS?
>> I THINK THAT WHAT THE
ACQUITTAL DOES IS IT SAYS THIS
IS HOW IT'S GOING TO BE UNTIL
THE ELECTION.
IN OTHER WORDS, FOR THOSE PEOPLE
WHO REALLY DISLIKE PRESIDENT
TRUMP AND WERE SORT OF
FANTASIZING ABOUT HIM BEING
REMOVED FROM OFFICE, I THINK
THIS PUTS THEM BACK IN TOUCH
WITH THE FACT THAT THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IS NOW THE
TRUMP PARTY, THAT NO MATTER HOW
THEY FEEL ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP
BEHIND-THE-SCENES, THAT ALL
REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS IN THE
HOUSE AND SENATE WILL GO ALONG
WITH HIM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF
ROMNEY, AND THAT THEY ARE
LOCK-STEP WITH HIM.
THIS IS WHAT THE REPUBLICAN IS.
THIS IS IN A SENSE THE NEW
NORMAL.
>> LET'S MOVE ALONG TO IOWA.
GIVEN THE SNAFU THERE WITH THE
NEW AND GLITCHY APP TO REPORT
RESULTS, THE DELAYS AND NOW AN
ASK FOR A RECANVASS, WHAT DO YOU
THINK ABOUT WHETHER THE IOWA
CAUCUS SHOULD BE PUT OUT OF ITS
MISERY?
>> WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE A VERY
GOOD TRACK RECORD, BUT I SUSPECT
THEY'LL FIGHT LIKE HECK TO HOLD
ON TO IT.
THEY'RE THE FIRST CAUCUS IN THE
SERIES, NOT THE FIRST PRIMARY.
SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO END UP
BEING THE SAME.
YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE STUFF THAT
WENT WRONG WAS JUST PLAIN
AMATEUR HOUR.
IT SORT OF REMINDS US OF THE
ROLL-OUT OF OBAMACARE WHERE
THERE WASN'T ENOUGH BETA
TESTING.
BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO
INTERESTING THAT THERE WAS SOME
JAMMING OF THE PHONE LINES, THAT
THERE WAS A BACKUP HOTLINE TO
CALL IN WHEN THE APP DIDN'T WORK
AND APPARENTLY SOME OF IT WAS
JAMMED BY SUPPORTERS OF
PRESIDENT TRUMP, ALMOST LIKE ON
A PRANKISH BASIS.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF BLAME TO GO
AROUND, BUT I DON'T THINK IOWA
IS GOING TO BE CHANGING IN TERMS
OF ITS ROLE IN PRESIDENTIAL
CYCLES.
>> AS TO THE RESULTS, WHAT'S
YOUR REACTION TO THOSE?
>> IT PERMITTED THE FOUR LEADING
CANDIDATES TO ALL MOVE ON TO NEW
HAMPSHIRE AND SAY I DIDN'T LOSE
BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ANY
DEFINITIVE WINNER.
SO THE OPTICS THAT YOU AND I ARE
USED TO, THAT ON THE NIGHT OF
THE CAUCUS SOMEBODY IS ON THE
PODIUM WITH THEIR HANDS RAISED
THAT THEY WON THE PRIMARY AND
THAT GIVES THEM THE BUMP TO GO
ON TO NEW HAMPSHIRE, THAT JUST
DIDN'T EXIST.
SO IT WAS ALMOST ANTICLIMATIC
THAT NOW NEW HAMPSHIRE WILL BE
THE ONE TO TELL US WHO IS THE
LEADER.
>> YOU SAID PREVIOUSLY THAT YOU
THINK THE FIELD WILL NOT BE
ARROWED BY THE NAME OF
WISCONSIN'S PRESIDENTIAL
PRIMARY.
DO YOU STILL THINK THAT?
>> YOU PROMISED ME YOU WERE
GOING TO ERASE THAT PART OF THE
TAPE, I THINK THERE ARE AT
LEAST THREE, PROBABLY FOUR
LONG-DISTANCE RUNNERS.
IN OTHER WORDS, UNLESS SOMEBODY
DOES TERRIBLY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE,
SOUTH CAROLINA, NEVADA, THEY'VE
GOT THE MONEY TO STAY IN.
MAYBE IT WILL BE BLOOMBERG OR
PATRICK WHO COMES OUT, BUT I
THINK WISCONSIN IS GOING TO BE A
REAL RACE.
SO FOR US THAT WILL BE GOOD.
WE MAY WELL BE THE PIVOT IN THE
PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATING PROCESS.
>> YOU SAY THERE'S A DECENT
CHANCE OF A CONTESTED DEMOCRATIC
CONVENTION IN MILWAUKEE.
WHY?
>> WELL, IF I'M RIGHT ABOUT MY
PREDICTION ABOUT THE PRIMARY P,
THAT MEANS THERE'S ALSO A
LIKELIHOOD THAT THOSE TWO OR
THREE OR FOUR ARE GOING TO
SURVIVE BEYOND THAT AND COME TO
MILWAUKEE FOR THE CONVENTION AND
FIGHT IT OUT.
THE LAST TIME IT HAPPENED WAS
J.F. KENNEDY IN 1960 IN
LOS ANGELES.
THE FACT THAT HE WON ON THE
FIRST VOTE WAS EVERYBODY'S
SURPRISE.
IN FACTS, HE WON WITH WYOMING,
THE LAST STATE, PUTTING HIM OVER
THE TOP.
SO WE MIGHT BE LUCKY.
IT MIGHT BE THAT THE MILWAUKEE
CONVENTION WILL BE A REAL
CONVENTION WITH WHO KNOWS WHAT
WOULD HAPPEN.
AND I THINK THAT'S GOOD.
YOU KNOW, WHEN A CON CONVENTION IS
MERELY A CORONATION PROCESS,
WHEN THERE'S NO NEWS THAT COMES
OUT OF A CONVENTION, IT'S
ANTICLIMATIC.
I'M HOPING THAT MILWAUKEE WILL
BE CLIMATIC.
>> AS TO REPUBLICANS, WITH ABOUT
A MINUTE LEFT, WITH TRUMP
UNOPPOSED, WHAT COULD HAPPEN
THERE?
>> OH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK REPUBLICANS IN WISCONSIN
WHEN THEY COME TO THE
APRIL PRIMARY ARE GOING TO HAVE
TO DECIDE DO WE WANT TO SHOW
TRUMP THAT HE'S GOT SUPPORT?
EVEN THOUGH HE'S UNOPPOSED
SHOULD WE VOTE IN THE REPUBLICAN
PRIMARY FOR HIM?
OR SHOULD WE CROSS OVER AND
PERHAPS PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF
MISCHIEF, PERHAPS VOTE FOR THE
WEAKEST DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE?
WHEN YOU'VE OWN PRIMARY,
SOMETIMES THE INTERPRETATION OF
WHAT IT MEANS IS VERY HARD TO
DISCERN.
>> COULD TRUMP REPUBLICANS
POSSIBLY BEAR TO CROSS OVER?
>> I THINK IT'S PRETTY COMMON IN
WISCONSIN POLITICS.
ONE-THIRD OF THE VOTERS
SOMETIMES VOTED IN REPUBLICAN
AND DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES.
YOU'RE NOT BETRAYING YOUR PARTY
OR BEING FALSE IF YOU VOTE IN
THE OTHER PARTY'S PRIMARY.
SO I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO FEEL
FREE TO DO IT.
IT MAY WELL BE THAT THEY
COALESCE TO SAY I JUST WANT TO
TELL TRUMP THAT I SUPPORT HIM.
>> YEAH.
ALL RIGHT.
MORDECAI LEE,