>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> I'M ZAC SCHULTZ FILLING IN
FOR FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," WE'LL
HAVE CONGRESSIONAL RESPONSE TO
THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS IN
WASHINGTON.
A MILWAUKEE DACA RECIPIENT TALKS
ABOUT LEGAL QUESTIONS IMPACTING
HER LIFE.
AN INSIDE LOOK AT DIVERSITY AND
INCLUSION AT THE STATE LEVEL.
AND LAFAYETTE COUNTY, FREEDOM OF
THE PRESS.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
NOVEMBER 15.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" A
PROVIDED IN PART BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
>> OUR FIRST LOOK TONIGHT IS AT
THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS THAT
BEGAN THIS WEEK IN WASHINGTON.
DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE PRESENTED
THEIR FIRST WITNESSES INTO
DONALD TRUMP'S REQUEST THAT THE
UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT OPEN UP AN
INVESTIGATION INTO JOE BIDEN IN
EXCHANGE FOR MILITARY AID.
THE QUESTION FOR MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS IS WHETHER THOSE
ACTIONS QUALIFY AS HIGH CRIMES
AND MISDEMEANOR AND THEREFORE
JUSTIFY IMPEACHMENT.
WE HEWE BEGIN WITH CONGRESSWOMAN GWEN
MOORE.
WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU SO FAR IN
THE TESTIMONY THAT WE'VE HEARD?
>> WHAT HAS STOOD OUT TO ME MOST
OF ALL, ZAC, IS THE INTEGRITY OF
THESE STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS
WHO HAVE COME FORWARD.
THEIR EXCELLENT CREDENTIALS, THE
FACT THAT THEY'VE SERVED OUR
COUNTRY OVER THIS REPUBLICAN
PRESIDENT, BUT DEMOCRATIC
PRESIDENTS IN THE PAST.
THEY'RE FACT WITNESSES.
THEY'RE NOT THERE WITH A DOG IN
THE FIGHT, BUT SIMPLY TO GIVE
THE FACTS.
>> YESTERDAY HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY
PELOSI STARTED USING THE TERM
BRIBERY TO DESCRIBE DONALD
TRUMP'S ACTIONS.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT TERM?
>> ACTUALLY, THAT WORD IS TAKEN
FROM THE CONSTITUTION.
WHAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS WERE
VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WAS
BRIBERY.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE WHOLE CODE
OF -- THE CRIMINAL CODE THAT HAS
EVOLVED THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES
SINCE THEY FOUNDED THE COUNTRY.
BUT THEY WERE VERY CLEAR THAT
THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE
ABUSE OF POWER AND BRIBERY OF OR
FROM A FOREIGN COUNTRY.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE FOUNDING
FATHERS ANTICIPATED THIS
PRESIDENT.
>> NOW, SOME OF THESE WITNESSES
HAVE ALREADY TESTIFIED BEHIND
CLOSED DOORS.
WHAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING
THEM TESTIFY IN PUBLIC?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE LEARNED
A GREAT DEAL THROUGH THIS
PROCESS.
AND THIS WAS -- THE BEHIND THE
CLOSED DOORS PHASE WAS THE
INDICTMENT PHASE.
AND WHEN SUBJECTS ARE BEING
INDICTED, THOSE TESTIMONIES ARE
OFTEN TAKEN BEFORE A GRAND JURY
OR BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
AND THIS WOULD BE SORT OF THE
PUBLIC PART OF THE INDICTMENT.
SO BEFORE THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES MAKES THE
INDICTMENT AND IMPEACHES -- AND
PUTS FORWARD ARTICLES OF
IMPEACHMENT, WE WANT THE PUBLIC
TO KNOW AND SEE WHAT THE
REASONING IS BEHIND THESE
CHARGES.
AND I THINK THAT THE PUBLIC WILL
HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DETERMINE
FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER OR NOT
THERE WAS AN ABUSE OF POWER,
WHETHER OR NOT BRIBERY OF A
FOREIGN COUNTRY WAS INVOLVED AND
WHETHER OR NOT THE PRESIDENT
USED THE OFFICE OF THE
PRESIDENCY FOR CORRUPT PURPOSES.
>> THE VOTES TO IMPEACH IN THE
HOUSE AND A POTENTIAL VOTE TO
CONVICT IN THE SENATE COME WITH
POLITICAL BAGGAGE.
HOW IMPORTANT IS SHIFTING PUBLIC
OPINION BEFORE THOSE VOTES
OCCUR?
>> I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT TO HAVE PUBLIC
SENTIMENT.
PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS EVERYTHING.
BUT THAT BEING SAID, ZAC, WE ALL
TOOK AN OATH OF OFFICE TO
SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE
UNITED STATES.
AND IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO
MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AND IF THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE DETERMINES
THAT THERE ARE LEGITIMATE
ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT, TO MOVE
FORWARD AND TO DO OUR
CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY.
I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD
WORRY ABOUT THE POLITICAL
FALLOUT, WILL THIS MEAN THAT WE
WILL OR WILL NOT BE BE
REELECTED, AND I THINK THAT THAT
IS WHAT I FIND SO DISAPPOINTING,
THAT WE ARE NOT FINDING OUR
REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES STEPPING
UP TO MEET THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL
OBLIGATIONS TO ASK LEGITIMATE
QUESTIONS, BUT PREDETERMINING
THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE ON
THE WRONG SIDE OF THIS
PRESIDENT.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS
SOMETHING THAT IN THE FINAL
ANALYSIS MAY INURE TO CERTAINLY
A A DOWNGRADING OF THE GOP, THE
GRAND OLD PARTY.
>> NOW, WE'VE READ A LOT OF
REPORTS ABOUT HOW REPUBLICANS IN
CONGRESS ARE SUPPORTING TRUMP
PUBLICLY BUT ARE SAYING
DIFFERENT THINGS BEHIND CLOSED
DOORS.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?
ARE YOU SPEAKING TO ANY OF YOUR
REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES?
>> I ACTUALLY AM.
I HAVE HAVE QUIET CONVERSATIONS
WITH REPUBLICANS AND I HAVE NOT
ASKED THEM, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY
REALLY THOUGHT.
I'VE ONLY ADMONISHED THEM TO
THINK ABOUT THEIR CAREERS BEYOND
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP WILL NOT ALWAYS BE
THE PRESIDENT.
AND FOR THOSE REPUBLICANS THAT I
CARE FOR -- AND THERE ARE MANY
THAT I PERSONALLY CARE FOR --
I'M ASKING THEM TO THINK ABOUT
THEIR PERSONAL REPUTATIONS,
THEIR OWN INTEGRITY, THEIR
CONSCIENCE, THEIR SOULS AND
CERTAINLY THE OATH THAT THEY
TOOK.
AND IF THEY CAN'T STAND UP AND
BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO LOOK AT THE
FACTS -- SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE
SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO LOOK AT
THE FACTS.
IF THEY CAN'T REALLY LOOK AT THE
FACTS, THEY OUGHT TO REEXAMINE
WHY THEY RAN FOR OFFICE.
@>> HOW MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
IN EITHER PARTY DO YOU THINK ARE
STILL UNDECIDED ON IMPEACHMENT
AND WANT TO HEAR ALL THE
TESTIMONY TO MAKE UP THEIR
MINDS?
>> YOU KNOW, I DO THINK THAT
THERE ARE MANY AMERICANS AND
THERE ARE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
WHO REALLY, REALLY, REALLY DO
WANT TO HEAR THE FACTS.
AND I DO THINK THAT WITHIN THE
DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS FOR SURE I
KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
REALLY DO WANT TO HEAR THE
FACTS.
THEY WANT TO THREAD THAT NEEDLE.
BECAUSE IT IS VERY CONSEQUENTAL
WHAT THEY DO.
WE HAVE SO MANY BRAVE DEMOCRATS,
PARTICULARLY THE WOMEN WHO HAVE
BACKGROUNDS IN INTELLIGENCE,
BACKGROUNDS, AGAIN, WITH THE CIA
AND SPECIAL FORCES, WHO ARE
PUTTING THEMSELVES AT POTENTIAL
ELECTION RISK TO DO THE RIGHT
THING.
AND I ADMIRE THESE WOMEN SO MUCH
BECAUSE THEY ARE STANDING ON
PRINCIPLE AND NOT JUST STANDING
ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS WILL
AFFECT THEIR ELECTION OUTCOMES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
CONGRESSWOMAN MOORE, THANKS FOR
YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> YOU BE WELL, ZAC.
>> WE INVITED ALL FOUR
REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN AND
SENATOR RON JOHNSON TO APPEAR ON
THIS SHOW.
THEY EITHER DID NOT REPLY OR
DECLINED OUR OFFER.
ALSO THIS WEEK IN WASHINGTON,
THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HEARD
ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHETHER THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS THE
RIGHT TO SHUT DOWN THE DACA
PROGRAM, WHICH STANDS FOR
DEFERRED ACTION FOR CHILDHOOD
ARRIVALS, A PROGRAM CREATED
THROUGH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER BY
PRESIDENT OBAMA THAT ALLOWS
IMMIGRANTS BROUGHT TO THE U.S.
AS CHILDREN TO GET WORK PERMITS
AND DEFERAL ON DEPORTATION.
JOINING US IS ALEJANDRA
GONZALEZ.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> MOST OBSERVES SEEM TO THINK
THE CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY ON THE
COURT AGREED WITH THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION.
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO ON
ORAL ARGUMENTS?
>> IT WAS -- AS A DACA RECIPIENT
MYSELF, IT WAS CONCERNING, OF
COURSE, LISA LISTENING TO THE ORAL
ARGUMENTS, BUT I'M I'M HOPING IT'S
NOT A TRUE REFLECTION OF WHAT
THEIR POSITION WILL BE, THAT
WE'LL HAVE ONE SWING VOTE IN THE
MIDDLE THAT WILL KEEP THE
PROGRAM ALIVE.
>> DONALD TRUMP SAID IF THE
COURTS STRIKE DOWN DACA, HE'LL
WORK WITH DEMOCRATS TO FIND A
SOLUTION, BUT THIS WOULD BE NEXT
YEAR DURING AN ELECTION YEAR.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WILL
ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
>> I DO NOT, NO.
AND I THINK IF IT DOES HAPPEN,
IT'S GOING TO BE A COMPROMISE
THAT MIGHT ENDANGER MY PARENTS
AND I'M NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT A
DEAL LIKE THAT.
>> AND HOW WOULD IT ENDANGER
YOUR PARENTS?
>> WELL, I THINK THE NARRATIVE
HAS BEEN DACA RECIPIENTS,
THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN,
THEY CAME TO THIS COUNTRY
BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS BROUGHT
THEM.
SO THAT KIND OF PUTS OUR PARENTS
AS THE CRIMINALS AND THAT'S
SIMPLY NOT TRUE.
THEY ACTED OUT OF DESPERATION.
I ALSO WOULDN'T WANT TO THROW
ANOTHER GROUP OF IMMIGRANTS
UNDER THE BUS JUST SO THAT I
COULD BENEFIT FROM IT.
>> DACA WAS ALSO SUPPOSED TO BE
A TEMPORARY PROGRAM WHILE
CONGRESS WORKED OUT A DEAL ON
IMMIGRATION, BUT THAT NEVER
HAPPENED.
WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE TO LIVE
UNDER ALL THIS UNCERTAINTY
THROUGH ALL THIS TIME?
>> IT'S BEEN REALLY STRESSFUL.
I ACTUALLY STARTED SCHOOL.
I GO TO ALVERNO COLLEGE.
I'M IN MY SENIOR YEAR.
SO I'LL BE GRADUATING THIS MAY.
AND IT'S VERY FRIGHTENING TO
THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF
NOT BEING ABLE TO USE MY
EDUCATION AFTER DACA ENDS.
IT'S A MATTER OF LIKE TRYING TO
FIT ALL OF MY LIFE GOALS WITHIN
THIS TIME PERIOD SO THAT I CAN
ACHIEVE THEM.
BUT THEN EVEN IT PROBABLY
DOESN'T EVEN MATTER BECAUSE I
MIGHT LOSE WHAT I'VE WORKED FOR.
>> WELL, WHAT WILL YOU AND
OTHERS DO IF DACA PROGRAM ENDS?
>> I THINK -- I THINK DREAMERS
ARE A VERY RESILIENT GROUP.
I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL CONTINUE
TO ADVOCATE FOR OURSELVES AND
FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
WE WILL CONTINUE TO ADD ROW ADVOCATE FOR
A PERMANENT SOLUTION.
WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO LAST THIS
LONG.
I'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET THIS FAR.
I BELIEVE IN THEIR PASSION AND
IN THEIR BRAVERY TO CONTINUE
MOVING FORWARD WITH THEIR LIVES.
>> NOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT TRYING
TO FINISH UP SOME OF THE THINGS
IN YOUR LIFE.
ARE OTHER DACA RECIPIENTS YOU
KNOW DOING SIMILAR THINGS OR ARE
THEY ALREADY MAKING CON CONTINUE CONTINGENCY
PLANS?
>> AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'RE
ALL JUST HUMAN BEINGS TRYING TO
LIVE THE LIFE THAT OUR PARENTS
BROUGHT US TO LIVE.
THEY BROUGHT US HERE FOR A
REASON.
AND MOST OF THE DOCK DACA RECIPIENTS
ARE COLLEGE STUDENTS AND THEIR
PLAN IS STILL TO ATTEND COLLEGE.
THEY'RE WORKING TWICE AS HARD
BECAUSE THEY DON'T FEEL FEDERAL
AID TO PAY FOR THEIR EDUCATION,
LOOKING FOR SCHOLARSHIPS TO
SUPPORT THEIR EDUCATION SO IF
DACA FAILS THEY HAVE SOME KIND
OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT.
>> ONE CONCERN IS DACA REQUIRED
PEOPLE TO PROVIDE PERSONAL
INFORMATION TO THE GOVERNMENT.
DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION USING THAT INFO
TO PURSUE DEPORTATIONS?
>> FOR SURE.
THAT'S MY BIGGEST FEAR.
DACA RECIPIENTS ARE TAXPAYERS.
THERE'S JUST SOME IRONY THAT MY
TAX MONEY COULD BE GOING TOWARD
MY OWN DEPORTATION.
DACA RECIPIENTS ARE REQUIRED TO
UPDATE THEIR HOME ADDRESS WITH
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AS SOON
AS THEY MOVE.
IT IS A BIG FEAR.
I LIVE IN A HOME WITH MY
BOYFRIEND'S CHILDREN.
I JUST DON'T WANT TO IMAGINE
WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THERE ARE
MASS DEPORTATIONS AND THESE KIDS
HAVE TO WITNESS THAT.
THE IDEA THAT IT'S TRAUMATIZING
ENOUGH.
I COULDN'T IMAGINE THE ACTUAL
EXPERIENCE.
>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT
ULTIMATELY THERE WILL BE A
POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THIS?
>> I'M HOPEFUL.
I AM HOPEFUL.
I THINK THAT THINGS ARE MOVING
THE RIGHT WAY.
I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
SUPPORTIVE OF DREAMERS AND I'M
REALLY HOPING THAT THE SENATE
DECIDES TO BRING THE DREAM AND
PROMISE ACT TO THE SENATE FLOOR
AND VOTE ON IT THE RIGHT WAY AND
BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY.
>> AND IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN
THE NEXT YEAR, DO YOU THINK
GOING FORWARD, PERHAPS IN
ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION OR DOWN
THE ROAD, THERE COULD BE A FIX?
>> OH, FOR SURE.
YOU KNOW, JUST WITH VOCES DE LA
FRONTERA'S ACTION, WE'VE WORKED
THAT LATINO AND YOUTH VOTE
BECOMES PROMINENT IN THE
ELECTION.
I WORK MOSTLY WITH HIGH SCHOOL
STUDENTS.
SOME ARE 18 YEARS OLD.
THEY ARE MOTIVATED NOW MORE THAN
EVER TO VOTE AND TO SHOW UP AT
THE POLLING PLACES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
ALEJANDRA GONZALEZ.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I APPRECIATE IT.
>> EARLIER THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR
TONY EVERS SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE
ORDER RELATING TO DIVERSITY,
EQUITY AND INCLUSION IN STATE
GOVERNMENT.
AMONG OTHER THINGS, THE ORDER
CREATES A GOVERNOR'S ADVISORY
COUNCIL AND REQUIRES STATE
EMPLOYEES TO ATTEND EQUITY AND
INCLUSION TRAINING.
JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT
THIS EFFORT IS DEMOCRATIC
REPRESENTATIVE SHEILA STUBBS.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> WHAT DO YOU WANT THESE
DIVERSITY, EQUITY, INCLUSION
EFFORTS TO FOCUS ON AT THE STATE
LEVEL?
>> TO FOCUS ON SYSTEMIC RACISM
THAT EXISTS.
WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE
PRACTICES, THERE ARE TRAININGS
THAT MUST TAKE PLACE, AND WE
KNOW THAT WHEN WE BEGIN TO
REALLY TAKE A DEEP DIVE AND
ANALYZE OURS PRACTICES AND
ANALYZE OUR POLICIES, WE WILL
BEGIN TO ADDRESS RACISM THE WAY
THAT IT SHOULD AND IT'S GOING TO
FOCUS ON ROOT CAUSES.
UNEMPLOYMENT, HOUSING,
EDUCATION, CRIMINAL JUSTICE
REFORM WORK.
WE'LL BEGIN TO REALLY START
ADDRESSING THE SYSTEMATIC RACISM
THAT EXISTS IN OUR STATE.
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
SYSTEMATIC RACISM YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE INSTITUTION OF STATE
GOVERNMENT AS RELATES TO THE
PUBLIC OR ARE YOU ALSO TALKING
ABOUT WORKPLACE CULTURE WITHIN
STATE GOVERNMENT?
>> I'M TALKING ABOUT WORKPLACE
CULTURE IS CRITICAL.
WE NEED TO DIVERSIFY OUR
EMPLOYMENT.
WE NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL WITH
OUR ERK WITH.
WE NEED TO SET GOALS.
WE NEED TO SET A PLAN THAT GIVES
US A CHANCE TO LOOK AT EVERY
AGENCY, THE WORK AT THAT TER -- WORK THAT
THEY'RE DOING.
HERE'S THE TRAINING THAT'S
NECESSARY TO MOVE US TO THE NEXT
PLACE.
WE NEED TO BE REALISTIC WITHIN
OUR GOAL-SETTING.
ARE WE GOING TO ACHIEVE WHAT WE
SET OUT TO DO, WHICH IS A NEW
PRACTICE, WHICH IS A NEW POLICY,
WHICH IS A NEW EFFORT.
>> SO WHAT KIND OF TRAINING DO
YOU ENVISION FOR STATE
EMPLOYEES?
>> IMPLICIT AND EXPLICIT BIAS
TRAINING.
WHEN YOU BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT
YOU, IT STARTS WITHIN YOU.
I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO
TALK ABOUT DIVERSITY AS
SOMETHING THAT WE WANT IN THIS
STATE.
THE GOVERNOR HAS MADE THAT VERY
CLEAR.
OUR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS MADE
IT CLEAR.
I MADE IT CLEAR.
OTHER POLICYMAKERS ARE SAYING WE
WANT PEOPLE OF COLOR TO NOT JUST
LIVE HERE, NOT TO JUST LIVE, BUT
WE WANT THEM TO THRIVE IN ALL
ASPECTS OF THEIR LIFE.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE AREAS
THAT'S REALLY KEY FOR THIS WORK.
>> FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVEN'T DEALT
WITH THESE TOPICS BEFORE,
TALKING ABOUT SYSTEMATIC RACISM
AND INSTITUTIONAL PRIVILEGE CAN
BE REALLY TOUGH FOR A LOT OF
OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE WORKFORCE
TO ADDRESS AT FIRST.
HOW DO YOU KEEP THEM OPEN TO UK
AT THATTING ABOUT THIS?
>> FIRST AND FOREMOST I THINK
THE TRAINING IS THE VERY FIRST
STEP, TO MANDATE THAT WE HAVE
OUR STAFF PARTICIPATE IN THESE
TRAININGS.
IT'S A FIRST STEP.
AS WE BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT WE
HAVE TO SAY THERE ARE JUST SOME
PEOPLE IN THIS STATE THAT ARE
NOT BEING TREATED FAIR.
AND WHEN HE YOU TALK ABOUT
EQUITY, IT'S ON EVERYONE TO BE
ABLE TO SEE THE SAME
OPPORTUNITIES.
WE OFTEN SAY EVERYTHING IS FAIR.
BUT IS IT REALLY FAIR?
IS THAT REALLY WHAT IT'S ABOUT?
I'LL GIVE YOU A PERFECT EXAMPLE.
IN A BASEBALL GAME THREE
INDIVIDUALS ARE WATCHING.
THERE IS A FENCE.
EACH PERSON IS AT A DIFFERENT
HEIGHT LEVEL.
THAT FENCE PREVENTS US FROM SEE
SEEING THE GAME FROM THE SAME
PERSPECTIVE.
BUT IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO SEE THE
SAME VIEWPOINT, THAT'S WHAT AN
EQUITY DOES.
IT'S LOOKING AT WORK WITH AN
ANALYTICAL ASPECT.
IT'S ACTUALLY DOING A DEEP DIVE
AND SAYING IT EXISTS.
I THINK THE FIRST STEP IS TO SAY
DOES IT EXIST.
YES.
IT EXISTS.
WHEN WE BEGIN TO MEET PEOPLE
THERE, THEY'LL BEGIN TO SAY YOU
KNOW WHAT?
WE DO HAVE A PROBLEM.
WHAT IS THE REASON, WHAT ARE THE
BARRIERS, WHAT ARE THE
OBSTACLES?
WHY DO WE HAVE OPPRESSION?
HOW DO WE MOVE PEOPLE FROM
OPPRESSION TO A PLACE OF
OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL IN THIS
STATE?
>> SO PART OF THE GOVERNOR'S
EXECUTIVE ORDER TALKS ABOUT
COLLECTING DATA AND THEN USING
THAT DATA.
WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION DO YOU
WANT TO GATHER AND HOW WOULD YOU
USE IT?
>> LET'S LOOK AT UNEMPLOYMENT.
WHY ARE SO MANY
AFRICAN-AMERICANS UNEMPLOYED IN
THIS STATE?
HOW DO WE SAY WE WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT MORE THAN
AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE GETTING AN
OPPORTUNITY?
WHAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE OF
COLOR?
AND I THINK TAKING THE DATA AND
BEGINNING TO SAY WE NOTICE
WITHIN OUR DEPARTMENTS WE DON'T
HAVE A LOT OF DIVERSITY FOR
PEOPLE HIRED.
HOW ARE WE GOING TO REACH A POOL
THAT WE HAVE NEVER REALLY TRULY
ENGAGED?
WHAT PREVENTS US FROM REALLY
REACHING OUT FOR EMPLOYMENT
OPPORTUNITIES?
LET'S LOOK AT OUR INCARCERATION.
WHY DO WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE OF
COLOR, AFRICAN-AMERICANS,
INCARCERATED IN THIS STATE THAN
THE POPULATION?
WHY IS THAT?
WHAT ARE OUR POLICIES?
THIS REALLY DRIVES AT POLICY.
AND ONCE WE BEGIN TO WRITE A
POLICY THAT IS FAIR FOR
EVERYONE, WE'LL BEGIN TO CHANGE
THOSE NUMBERS.
I CAN SAY FIRSTHAND I'VE BEEN A
CHAMPION AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.
AND SO HAPPENED TO CREATE AN
OFFICE OF EQUITY AND INCLUSION
AND SAYING IT IS INTENTIONAL.
THAT'S WHAT WE HE EXPECT TO GET
WITH THAT DATA AND BEGIN TO SAY
WHAT ARE WE MISSING?
WHAT CAN WE DO BETTER?
LET'S MAKE SURE WE DO THESE
EQUITY PLANS EVERY YEAR.
>> ALL RIGHT.
REPRESENTATIVE STUBBS, THANKS
FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
>> THANK YOU, SIR.
>> THE LAFAYETTE COUNTY BOARD
DEBATED A PROPOSAL THAT
THREATENED PROSECUTION FOR
JOURNALISTS REPORTING ON WATER
QUALITY ISSUES.
THE PROPOSAL WAS ULTIMATELY
AMENDED BUT NOT BEFORE IT DREW
NATIONAL ATTENTION.
JOINING US NOW IS BILL LUEDERS,
PRESIDENT OF THE WISCONSIN
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION COUNCIL.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> SURE.
>> THE PROPOSAL WARNED
JOURNALISTS THEY SHOULD QUOTE
DIRECTLY FROM A PRESS RELEASE OR
VIOLATORS WOULD BE PROSECUTED.
WHAT WERE THEY TRYING TO
PREVENT?
WHAT WAS THE INTENT THERE?
>> I GUESS THERE HAD BEEN WHAT
THEY PERCEIVED TO BE ERRORS IN
THE REPORTING OF AN EARLIER
REPORT AND THIS WAS THE HIS
HYSTERICAL OVERRAKS OVERREACTION.
THERE'S NO LEGAL BASIS FOR THE
THREAT.
ADDITIONALLY, THREATENED MEMBERS
OF THE COUNTY BOARD IN LAFAYETTE
COUNTY AND PUBLIC EMPLOYEES WITH
CONSEQUENCES IF THEY WERE TO
TALK AT ALL ABOUT THIS UPCOMING
GROUNDWATER QUALITY REPORT.
THEY HAD TO TOE THE COMPANY LINE
OR THEY WOULD BE IN BIG TROUBLE.
AGAIN, HUGE CONSTITUTIONAL
PROBLEMS.
THAT'S NOT WHY WE HAVE
INDEPENDENTLY-ELECTED PUBLIC
OFFICIALS, SO THEY CAN BE TOLD
TO SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP.
BOTH PRONGS OF THIS PROPOSAL
WERE REMOVED.
FIRST THE ONE AGAINST MEDIA.
THEN LATER IN THE DAY ON TUESDAY
THE PRONG THAT DEALT WITH PUBLIC
OFFICIALS ELECTED AND PUBLIC
EMPLOYEES IN LAFAYETTE COUNTY.
>> NOW, THE COUNTY BOARD
CHAIRMAN WON'T ADMIT WHO WROTE
IT.
IS IT POSSIBLE THE AUTHOR DIDN'T
KNOW IT WAS BLATANTLY
UNCONSTITUTIONAL?
OR WAS THERE A DIRECT CHILLING
EFFECT?
>> WELL, WHOEVER WROTE THIS
INTENDED TO HAVE A CHILLING
EFFECT, INTENDED TO CHILL
SPEECH, INTENDED TO FRIGHTEN
PEOPLE INTO COMPLIANCE.
IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE
PERSON THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS
OKAY, BUT APPARENTLY THE PERSON
DID OR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE
PROPOSED THIS.
AND IT WAS SO OUTLANDISH, AS YOU
NOTED, IT GENERATED NATIONAL
ATTENTION, THE WASHINGTON POST
AND THE NEW YORK TIMES AND I
PRESUME MANY OTHER PAPERS AROUND
THE COUNTRY RAN AN ASSOCIATED
PRESS STORY ABOUT THIS.
IT'S JUST SO, YOU KNOW, CRAZY
THAT IT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT
DRAWS NATIONAL ATTENTION.
I THINK AT THE HEARING THAT TOOK
PLACE ON THIS ON TUESDAY THERE
WAS A FAIR AMOUNT OF EXPRESSION
BY CITIZENS THAT THEY WERE
EMBARRASSED BY THE CONDUCT OF
THEIR PUBLIC OFFICIALS, THAT
THEY WOULD PUT OUT SOMETHING
LIKE THIS THAT WOULD BRING
DISREPUTE TO THE COUNTY.
>> WE'VE HEARD SIMILAR STORIES
OR ROUGHLY SIMILAR VERSIONS OF
THIS HAPPENING IN OTHER PLACES.
IS THAT BECAUSE WE'RE HEARING
MORE NEWS, THIS GETS A NATIONAL
REPEAT WHEN IT HAPPENS, OR IS IT
HAPPENING MORE OFTEN?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK IT'S AN ANOMALY.
I HOPE IT IS.
BUT WHAT'S DISSPIRITTING ABOUT
THIS EPISODE IS THAT IT HAPPENED
TO BEGIN WITH, THAT PEOPLE IN
POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY AT A
COUNTY GOVERNMENT LEVEL WHO
DIDN'T KNOW BETTER THAN TO PUT
SOMETHING LIKE THIS FORWARD.
>> BUT QUESTIONS LIKE THIS
EXIST.
GOVERNOR EVERS HAD ISSUES ABOUT
WHAT INFORMATION HE WAS GOING TO
RELEASE TO REPORTERS.
>> YEAH.
THAT WAS THE SECOND
DISSPIRITTING THING THAT WE
HAPPENED THAT WE CALLED
ATTENTION TO THIS WEEK, IS THAT
A MILWAUKEE TELEVISION STATION,
FOX 6, REPORTED THAT IT HAD
REQUESTED INITIALLY A MONTH
WORTH OF EMAILS TO AND FROM
GOVERNOR EVERS, ONE OF HIS KEY
STAFF PEOPLE, AND WAS TOLD THAT
WAS TOO BROAD A REQUEST, THEY
COULDN'T COMPLY.
SO IT ASKED FOR A WEEK'S WORTH
OF EMAILS.
THEY WERE TOLD THAT WAS TOO
BROAD AN ABOUT, THEY COULDN'T
COMPLY.
THEY SAID GIVE US ONE DAY'S
WORTH OF EMAILS.
THEY WERE TOLD THAT WAS TOO
BROAD A REQUEST AND THEY WEREN'T
GOING TO GET ANY RECORDS.
BEGIN,AGAIN, THE MIRROR FACT THAT THE
GOVERNOR DID THAT GENERATED NEWS
STORIES.
I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS
WRONG TO HAVE DENIED THE
REQUEST.
THAT'S NOT UNMANAGEABLE.
THAT'S NOT TOO MUCH.
OUR OPEN RECORDS LAW, LIKE OUR
OPEN MEETINGS LAW, HAS BAKED
RIGHT INTO IT THE PRESUMPTION OF
MAXIMUM OPENNESS.
PUBLIC OFFICIALS ARE SUPPOSED TO
ERR ON THE SIDE OF BEING TOO
OPEN, NOT TOO SECRETIVE.
IN THIS CASE IT LOOKS AS THOUGH
THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WAS DOING
EVERYTHING IT COULD TO TRY TO
FIND SOME REASON TO SAY NO TO A
REQUEST FROM THIS TELEVISION
STATION, WHEN UNDER THE LAW AND
UNDER GOOD PUBLIC POLICY IT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING
EVERYTHING IT COULD TO FIND SOME
REASON TO SAY YES, HERE ARE YOUR
RECORDS.
>> SO THE CHILLING EFFECT QUIETS
PEOPLE, BUT ALL THE ATTENTION,
DOES THAT HAVE THE OPPOSITE
EFFECT, OF MAYBE KEEPING THIS
FROM HAPPENING SOMEWHERE AGAIN?
>> I HOPE SO.
I HOPE WHAT HAPPENED IN
LAFAYETTE COUNTY AND WHAT
HAPPENED WITH THE GOVERNOR SENDS
A SIGNAL TO PUBLIC OFFICIALS
THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS
THEY CAN'T GET AWAY WITH AND
SHOULDN'T TRY.
IT MAY COME DOWN TO LITIGATION
IN THE CASE INVOLVING THE
TELEVISION STATION, THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.
IF THE STATION WERE TO SUE UNDER
OUR OPEN RECORDS LAW AND SAY
THAT THE DENIAL WAS IMPROPER, I
THINK THE COURTS WOULD AGREE
WITH THAT.
THAT WOULD BE VERY UNFORTUNATE
BECAUSE GOVERNOR EVERS DOESN'T
NEED A BLACK EYE OVER THIS
ISSUE.
HE SHOULD BE SEIZING EVERY
OPPORTUNITY HE CAN TO USE
TRANSPARENCY AS A WAY TO BUILD
TRUST WITH THE PEOPLE THAT HE
REPRESENTS AND SECOND OF ALL TO
MAKE POSITIVE ADVANCES IN AN
AREA WHERE THE PUBLIC IS
ONBOARD.
THE PUBLIC LIKES WHEN PUBLIC
OFFICIALS DO THINGS TO MAKE
GOVERNMENT MORE OPEN AND HE
SHOULD BE DOING THAT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
BILL LUEDERS, THANKS FOR YOUR
TIME TODAY.
>> SURE.
THANK YOU.
>> NOW FOR AN UPDATE ON FORMER
DATCP SECRETARY-DESIGNEE BRAD
PFAFF.
A FEW DAYS AFTER REPUBLICANS
VOTED DOWN HIS CONFIRMATION, HE
FOUND A LANDING SPOT BACK IN THE
EVERS' ADMINISTRATION, DIRECTOR
OF BUSINESS AND RURAL
DEVELOPMENT FOR THE DEPARTMENT
OF ADMINISTRATION.
HE WILL NOT NEED SENATE
CONFIRMATION.
HOWEVER, THE FALLOUT FROM THE
VOTE IS NOT OVER.
AFTERWARDS, GOVERNOR EVERS MEET
WITH DATCP EMPLOYEES AND
ACCORDING TO THE MILWAUKEE
JOURNAL SENTINEL EVERS CALLED
REPUBLICAN SENATORS AMORAL AND
STUPID AND TOLD EMPLOYEES NOT TO
LET THE BASTARDS IMPEDE THEIR
WORK.
EVERS CLARIFIED HE DOES NOT
THINK REPUBLICAN SENATORS ARE
BASTARDS.
FINALLY TONIGHT, A LOOK AHEAD TO
NEXT WEEK, A LOOK AT CHRONIC
WASTING DISEASE IN WISCONSIN'S
DEER HERD AND ITS IMPACT ON
HUNTERS.
>> THE NUMBER OF DEER KILLED BY
HUNTERS HAS GONE DOWN SINCE THE
DISCOVERY OF CWD.
BUT CWD HAS ALSO SPREAD, FROM
THE FIRST THREE POSITIVES IN
2002, IT HAS EXPANDED TO COVER
MOST OF SOUTHWEST WISCONSIN.
AND NOW 56 COUNTIES EITHER HAVE
A DEER THAT HAS TESTED POSITIVE
OR ARE WITHIN TEN MILES OF A
POSITIVE CASE.
>> THAT FULL REPORT NEXT WEEK.
ALSO NEXT FRIDAY WE'LL HAVE
INFORMATION FROM THE LATEST
MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL
INCLUDING HOW HUNTERS FEEL ABOUT
CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE.
I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.