>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW,"
COVERAGE OF HOUSE APPROVAL OF
THE IMPEACHMENT RESOLUTION.
A LOOK AHEAD TO AFFORDABLE CARE
ACT ENROLLMENT.
THE SIGN-UP WINDOW STARTED
TODAY.
AND AN INSIDE LOOK AS A NEW
CRIMINAL EXPUNGEMENT PROPOSAL
CIRCULATING AT THE STATE
CAPITOL.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
NOVEMBER 1.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
>> A FIRST LOOK TONIGHT AT THE
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES'
VOTE TO ADVANCE THE PRESIDENTIAL
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY ABOUT THE
PUBLIC PHASE.
THE RESOLUTION AUTHORIZES THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENT COMMITTEE TO CONDUCT
OPEN HEARINGS AND ALLOWS THE
PRESIDENT AND HIS ATTORNEYS TO
CROSS-EXAMINE WITNESSES ONCE
TAKEN UP BY THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE.
THAT COMMITTEE WOULD THEN WRITE
ANY ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT TO
BE VOTED ON BY THE HOUSE.
FOR HIS PART, PRESIDENT TRUMP
AGAIN DECLARES THIS AS A WITCH
HUNT AND REPUBLICANS CALLED THE
VOTE A SOVIET-STYLE PROCESS.
THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER CALLS THE
PROCESS TRANCE PARENTS TRANSPARENT AND OPEN.
THE VOTE WAS ALMOST ALL ALONG
PARTY LINES.
IN WISCONSIN ALL DEMOCRATS VOTED
AGAINST, REPUBLICANSVOTED--
--
>> JOINING US NOW IS RON KIND.
SOME WONDERED WHETHER YOU WOULD
VOTE ANY ON THIS DISTRICT.
WHY DID YOU VOTE IN FAVOR?
>> FIRST OF ALL, I'VE ALWAYS
BEEN IN FAVOR OF A FULL,
THOROUGH INVESTIGATION TO GET TO
THE BOTTOM OF THESE EXTREMELY
SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS.
AS A FORMER SPECIAL PROSECUTOR
HERE IN WISCONSIN, I KNOW IT'S
IMPORTANT TO GATHER ALL THE
FACTS, ALL A THE EVIDENCE SO WE
KNOW WHAT AN APPROPRIATE REMEDY
SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
I ALSO REMIND PEOPLE I VOTED IN
FAVOR OF OPENING UP THE CLINTON
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY BACK THEN
BECAUSE I VIEW MY ROLE AS A
COEQUAL ROLL OF GOVERNMENT
SERIOUSLY.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS
PLAYING BY THE RULES.
IF WE DON'T DO IT, NO ONE ELSE
DO.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WE DO GO
FORWARD ON THE INVESTIGATION,
GATHER THE INFORMATION IN
REGARDS TO THIS MATTER.
>> AS TO THE CLINTON
IMPEACHMENT, IN THE END YOU
VOTED AGAINST THAT.
AM I RIGHT?
>> I DID.
THAT'S CORRECT.
>> WHAT POLITICAL CONCERNS DO
YOU HAVE, THOUGH, WITH VOTING TO
PROCEED TO THE PUBLIC PHASE
GIVEN YOUR DISTRICT?
>> TRUTH?
ZERO.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN MAKE
POLITICAL CALCULATIONS WITH
SOMETHING AS SERIOUS AS THIS.
IMPEACHMENT NEEDS TO BE A LAST
RESORT, A LAST OPTION.
IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY REMEDY
THAT THE FATHERS PUT IN THE
CONSTITUTION IN ORDER TO CHECK
UNCHECKED PRESIDENTIAL POWER AND
THE ABUSE OF THAT POWER.
AND I WOULD HOPE AT THE END OF
THE DAY THAT WE ALL CAN AGREE AS
AMERICANS THAT NO PRESIDENT
SHOULD BE SHAKING DOWN ANOTHER
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO GET THEM
TO DO A POLITICAL HIT JOB ON
THEIR RIVAL.
THAT'S THE BASIS OF THE
ALLEGATION, THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP
WAS USING THE WITHHOLDING OF
MILITARY ASSISTANCE THAT
CONGRESS ALREADY APPROPRIATED
AND WHERE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY
IS DIRECTLY IN INVOLVED SINCE
UKRAINE WAS INVADED BY RUSSIA
AND WITHHELD A WHITE HOUSE
VISIT.
THERE'S A STORY THAT CAME OUT
THAT SAID THEY WERE THEY ARE WITHHOLDING
ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINIAN FOR THE
SAME REASON, TO GET THEM TO DO A
POLITICAL INVESTIGATION AGAINST
THE BIDEN FAMILY.
THAT IS DEEPLY TROUBLING TO ALL
AMERICANS.
>> WHAT HAVE YOUR CONSTITUENTS
SAID TO YOU ABOUT IMPEACHMENT OF
THE PRESIDENT AND THE PROCESS?
>> WELL, I THINK THEY APPRECIATE
THE GRAVITY OF THE ALLEGATIONS.
I'VE BEEN HAVING A LOT OF
LISTENING SESSIONS.
MOST OF THEM HAVEN'T EVEN READ
THE FOUR-PAGE WHISTLE-BLOWER
COMPLAINT.
THAT'S ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT.
THIS WAS INITIATED BY
NONPARTISAN CAREER INTELLIGENCE
OFFICIALS WORKING IN THE WHITE
HOUSE WHO ARE DEEPLY DISTURBED
BY WHAT THEY HEARD AND SAW THE
PRESIDENT DOING WITH THIS
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT.
THAT'S WHAT INITIATED THIS
ENTIRE INVESTIGATION, NOT SOME
POLITICAL WITCH HUNT.
AND THOSE ARE SERIOUS
ALLEGATIONS.
I DON'T THINK ANY MEMBER OF
CONGRESS SHOULD TAKE LIGHTLY OR
TURN THEIR BACK TO.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE HAD
WITNESSES COME FORWARD NOW, TO
CORROBORATE WHAT WAS IN THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER.
AND THEY HAVE BEEN.
AND SOON THAT WILL BE A PUBLIC
HEARING SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
CAN BE PRIVY TO THIS TESTIMONY
FIRSTHAND.
>> IN YOUR MIND IS QUID PRO QUO,
WITHHOLDING UKRAINIAN AID UNLESS
THAT COUNTRY INVESTIGATED JOE
BIDEN, A NECESSARY ELEMENT FOR
IMPEACHMENT?
>> I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS.
IT'S CERTAINLY NOT IN THE
CONSTITUTION.
JUST THE FACT THAT ANY PRESIDENT
-- LISTEN.
ANY PRESIDENT THAT IS ASKING A
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO DO
SOMETHING, THERE'S AN INHERENT
POWER IMBALANCE TO BEGIN WITH.
IT'S HARD FOR ANOTHER GOVERNMENT
TO SAY NO TO THE UNITED STATES
OF AMERICA BECAUSE OF OUR
ECONOMIC AND MILITARY WEIGHT.
I'VE NEVER THOUGHT THERE WAS A
VALID AMOUNT, THAT THERE HAD TO
BE A SHOWING OF SOME QUID PRO
QUO, SOMETHING FOR SOMETHING.
BUT CLEARLY THE EVIDENCE IS
POINTING IN THAT DIRECTION, THAT
HE WAS WITHHOLDING THE MILITARY
AID.
JUST REMEMBER, THAT AID WAS
FINALLY RELEASED A FEW DAYS
AFTER THE WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT
CAME OUT.
THERE WAS PRESSURE ON THE WHITE
HOUSE TO DO IT THEN BECAUSE
EVERYTHING WAS BLOWING UP ON
THEM.
IT'S CLEAR NOW FROM THE
TESTIMONY WE'VE HEARD FROM A LOT
OF THE NONPARTISAN PROFESSIONAL
PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE WITH
FIRSTHAND INFORMATION THAT
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON
HERE.
SO IT IS TROUBLING.
AND I DID NOT GO TO CONGRESS TO
IMPEACH THIS PRESIDENT OR ANY
PRESIDENT.
THE LAST THING ON OUR MINDS.
BUT, AGAIN, IF THE CONGRESS
DOESN'T STEP FORWARD AND ACT AS
A COEQUAL BRANCH AND ASSUME OUR
CONSTITUTIONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO
KEEP AN EYE ON THE PRESIDENT AND
WHAT HE'S DOING, NO ONE ELSE
WILL.
AND HE WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH
UNFETTERED, UNCHECKED POWER,
WHICH COULD PROVE DANGEROUS TO
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
>> YOU TOUCHED ON THIS BRIEFLY,
BUT WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO
REPUBLICANS WHO CALL THIS MERELY
A WITCH HUNT OR A SOVIET-STYLE
PROCESS?
>> WELL, IT'S FUNNY THAT THEY'RE
NOT ARGUING ABOUT THE FACTS AND
THE EVIDENCE, THAT THEY'RE
ATTACKING THE PROCESS.
THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS SEEM
IT'S JUST A POLITICAL ADVENTURE.
YET THERE'S BEEN NO REBUTTAL AT
ALL WITH THE UNDERLYING
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT OR THE
CORROBORATING WITNESSES AND
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY OF THEM NOW
COMING FORWARD WITH FIRSTHAND
INFORMATION.
NOW, YOU CAN ARGUE WHETHER YOU
THINK THIS RISES TO THE LEVEL OF
AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE, BUT TO
DENY THOSE FACTS AND TO TRY TO
DIVERT AND OBSTRUCT ATTENTION
FROM IT I THINK IS VERY
DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT SETS A
DANGEROUS SIGNAL TO THIS
PRESIDENT AND FUTURE PRESIDENTS
THAT IT'S FAIR GAME, THAT WE CAN
ASK FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS TO
MEDDLE IN OUR ELECTION PROCESS.
THAT WAS THE ONE THING OUR
FOUNDERS FEARED THE MOST, WAS
OUTSIDE FOREIGN INTERFERENCE IN
OUR DOE MESS STICK DOMESTIC AFFAIRS.
WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO SEEMS TO
BE COURTING THAT, NOT JUST
UKRAINE, BUT RUSSIA AND CHINA
AND HE'S ASKED AUSTRALIA AND
GREAT BRITAIN TO CONDUCT
INVESTIGATIONS AGAINST SOME OF
HIS RIVALS.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT
DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO UNDO THE
RESULTS OF THE 2016 ELECTION OR
PREEMPT THE NEXT ONE?
>> WELL, AGAIN, FRED, IT WASN'T
OUR CALL TO START THIS
INVESTIGATION.
THIS WAS BASED ON A
WHISTLE-BLOWER COMPLAINT FROM
INTELLIGENCE CAREER OFFICERS IN
THE WHITE HOUSE THAT BROUGHT IT
TO OUR ATTENTION.
AND IT WOULD BE I THINK
EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE IF WE
DIDN'T LOOK INTO THESE
ALLEGATIONS, IF WE DIDN'T
INTERVIEW WITNESSES TO FIND OUT
WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE.
SO, AGAIN, THEY'RE TRYING TO
MAKE THIS INTO SOME POLITICAL
FOOTFOOTBALL, BUT WE'RE RESPONDING
TO A NONPARTISAN WHISTLE-BLOWER
COMPLAINT AND IT WAS OUR DUTY TO
FOLLOW UP ON THAT AND I THINK IT
WOULD BE UNPATRIOT PARTICULAR IF
WE DIDN'T DO IT.
>> THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> WE ASKED REPUBLICANS IN THE
WISCONSIN DELEGATION TO JOIN US.
THEY DECLINED.
HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MEMBER
REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE JAMES
SENSENBRENNER RELEASED ON
STATEMENT ON THE RESOLUTION
SAYING, QUOTE, AN UNFAIR PROCESS
CAN ONLY LEAD TO AN UNFAIR
RESULT AND THIS ENTIRE PROCESS,
HE SAYS, HAS BEEN FUNDAMENTALLY
UNFAIR TO THE PRESIDENT.
JUST AS NO AMERICAN INCLUDING
THE PRESIDENT IS ABOVE THE LAW,
NO ONE IS BELOW IT, EITHER.
YET SPEAKER PELOSI AND CHAIRMAN
SCHIFF CONTINUE TO ROB THE
PRESIDENT OF HIS DUE PROCESS
RIGHTS.
THE RULES OUTLINED IN TODAY'S
RESOLUTION HE SAYS FALL
EMBARRASSINGLY SHORT AND WILL
DAMAGE THE CREDIBILITY OF OUR
INSTITUTION.
>> THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS IS A
DIZZYING DISPLAY OF PARTISAN
DIVIDE IN OUR COUNTRY AND OUR
STATE.
IN TONIGHT'S CLOSER LOOK, AN
EXPERT ON ELECTIONS, MEDIA,
AMERICAN POLITICS, THE
PRESIDENCY, POLITICAL
COMMUNICATION, POLITICAL
BEHAVIOR AND PUBLIC OPINION.
HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SORT THIS
OUT.
UW-MADISON PROFESSOR OF
JOURNALISM MIKE WAGNER JOINS US.
SORRY TO GO ON LIKE THAT, BULL
YOU ARE THE EXPERT.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THE
AVERAGE WISCONSIN VOTER IS
TUNING INTO THIS IMPEACHMENT
SHOWDOWN?
>> I THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE
THAN BEFORE BECAUSE CHANGE IS
STARTING TO HAPPEN.
MORE WISCONSINITES ARE BECOMING
FAVORABLE TOWARD IMPEACHMENT.
I WOULD SAY THE AVERAGE PERSON
IS STILL PROBABLY SEEING THIS
THROUGH THE LENS OF THEIR
PARTISANSHIP AND FOLLOWING WHAT
ELITES ON THEIR SIDE ARE SAYING
ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND WHAT
SHOULD HAPPEN TO HIM NEXT.
>> IN FACT, MY NEXT QUESTION WAS
DO YOU THINK THAT AS THIS
PROGRESSES, POTENTIALLY, THAT
THIS WILL CHANGE THE MIND OF
SOME TRUMP VOTERS IN TERMS OF
VOTING FOR HIM?
>> I THINK IT DEPENDS UPON WHAT
WE LEARN ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP
THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS.
I THINK IF WE LEARN MUCH OF
WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN REPORTED, I
THINK PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY THEN
MADE UP THEIR MINDS ABOUT
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THOSE WHO
LIKE HIM WILL CONTINUE TO LIKE
HIM AND THOSE WHO HAVE OPPOSED
HIM WILL SEE THIS AS EVIDENCE
THAT THEY WERE RIGHT TO OPPOSE
HIM.
IF WE LEARN MORE OR IF THERE'S
MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE
PEOPLE TO EXPLAIN WHY THE
CHARGES AGAINST HIM ARE
PROBLEMATIC FOR SOMEONE IN THE
POSITION OF THE PRESIDENCY, THAT
MIGHT CHANGE SOME POSITIONS
AMONG REPUBLICANS OR
INDEPENDENTS WHO ARE AMBIVALENT
OR JUST TORN.
>> HOW RESONANT DO YOU THINK THE
ARGUMENT ON THE PART OF THE GOP
IS THAT THIS IS JUST AN ATTEMPT
BY DEMOCRATS TO UNDO THE RESULTS
OF THE 2016 ELECTION?
>> THE CONSTITUTION OUTLINES A
PROCESS FOR IMPEACHMENT.
THE FOUNDERS ALWAYS THOUGHT THIS
SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD
HAPPEN.
IT IS NOT UNDOING AN ELECTION.
IT IS IN FACT DOING THE
CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY OF THE HOUSE
OF REPRESENTATIVES.
THEY MAY ULTIMATELY DECIDE THEY
SHOULD NOT IMPEACH THE
PRESIDENT, BUT IT'S NOT TRYING
TO UNDO THE RESULTS OF THE
ELECTION.
IT'S NOT LIKE HILLARY CLINTON
BECOMES PRESIDENT IF PRESIDENT
TRUMP WERE REMOVED.
MIKE PENCE WOULD BECOME
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT VOTERS
THINK RUDY GIULIANI'S SO-CALLED
SHADOW DIPLOMACY IS NO BIG DEAL?
OR, AGAIN, IS THIS JUST THE WAY
THE PARTISAN MINDSET WORKS?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT THE
AVERAGE VOTER HAS BEEN ABLE TO
LEARN ENOUGH ABOUT THAT BEHAVIOR
TO KNOW MUCH MORE THAN WAS IT ON
MY SIDE OR NOT.
THE MORE WE LEARN ABOUT THAT,
WHICH I PRESUME WE MIGHT IN THE
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY, THE MORE
SOME VOTERS MAY DECIDE THAT
THAT'S REALLY PARTICULARLY
TROUBLING BECAUSE IT'S FOREIGN
POLICY BEING NEGOTIATED OUTSIDE
OF THE APPARATUS OF THE
EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
REALLY IT'S OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE
DEPARTMENT OF STATE MIGHT DO OR
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OR THE
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
OR OTHER RELEVANT DEPARTMENTS
THAT ENGAGE IN FOREIGN POLICY
MAKING.
SO IT COULD BE THAT THE MORE WE
LEARN, THE MORE TROUBLING
PEOPLE'S ATTITUDES BECOME TOWARD
IT.
OR IT COULD BE THAT IT WAS MUCH
ADO ABOUT LESS THAN WE CURRENTLY
THINK.
>> IS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S KIND OF
FIGHTING STYLE ATTRACTIVE TO
VOTERS POTENTIALLY, DESPITE THE
FACTS?
>> AGAIN, I WOULD SAY IT'S
ATTRACTIVE TO HIS VOTERS.
I DON'T THINK IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO
EVERYONE.
I THINK THAT HIS STRATEGY TO
CREATE A CAW BLURRY OF ACCUSATIONS
AND WILD TWEETS AND STATEMENTS
THAT ARE NOT TRUE ARE DESIGNED
TO WIN THE SHORT-TERM NEWS
CYCLE.
IMPEACHMENT IS A LONG PROCESS.
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS NOT REALLY
HAD TO GO THROUGH A LONG PROCESS
OF A METICULOUS CASE BEING BUILT
AGAINST HIM.
THE MUELLER REPORT WASN'T A SET
OF HEARINGS THAT LASTED FOR
MONTHS ON END.
IT WAS DRIP, DRIP, DRIP WITH
SOME LEAKS HERE AND THERE, THEN
THE RELEASE OF THE REPORT BUT
THEN IT STOPPED.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD GO
ON FOR A VERY LONG TIME IN A
SUSTAINED WAY THAT WOULDN'T STOP
AND HIS STRATEGY MAY BE LESS
EFFECTIVE OR ON IT MAY BE
EFFECTIVE IN TURNING PEOPLE'S
ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE
OBJECTIONABLE ISSUE.
>> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH THIS IS
ALMOST ENTIRELY HIS STRATEGY AND
THAT THERE ISN'T A CONCERTED
EFFORT?
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A
SET OF MEETINGS WHERE THEY AGREE
ON EXACTLY WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS
GOING TO BE TWEETING OR SAYING
AT A NEWS CONFERENCE OR SAYING
AS HE STANDS OUT BY THE
HELICOPTER BEFORE IT TAKES OFF.
I THINK THOSE OFTEN COME AS
SHOCKS TO HIS STAFF, IT'S BEEN
REPORTED, SHOCKS TO REPUBLICAN
LEADERSHIP AND OTHERS.
AND SO IT SEEMS THAT SO FAR THE
STRATEGY FOR MOST REPUBLICAN
LEADERS HAS BEEN TO FIRST SAY I
DIDN'T HEAR WHAT HE SAID.
THEN AFTER THEY'VE HAD TIME TO
TALK ABOUT IT, END UP SUPPORTING
THE PRESIDENT.
>> WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE KIND OF
FOREVER-GROWING PARTISAN DIVIDE
THAT MAKE PEOPLE COVER THEIR
EARS AND COVER THEIR EYES IN
FAVOR OF THE TALKING POINTS OF
THEIR PARTY?
>> I THINK WE'VE BECOME TOO
QUICK TO DISMISS ANY PROBLEM
WITH WHAT WE MIGHT CALL WHAT
ABOUTISM.
SOMETHING OBJECTIONABLE IS
RAISED ABOUT REPUBLICANS.
PRESIDENT CLINTON DID SOMETHING
SIMILAR.
DEMOCRATS GET ACCUSED OF
SOMETHING AND THEY SAY WHAT
ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP.
RATHER THAN SAYING THIS IS
BEHAVIOR IS NOT OKAY, PEOPLE ARE
TOO QUICK TO PUT ON THEIR HOME
TEAM COLORS AND BEGIN ATTACKING
THE OTHERS.
>> PROFESSOR MIKE WAGNER, THANKS
VERY MUCH.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> THE NEW ENROLLMENT PERIOD FOR
THE FEDERAL HEALTH INSURANCE
EXCHANGE, THE INSURANCE
MARKETPLACE, STARTS TODAY AND
RUNS THROUGH DECEMBER 15.
IN TONIGHT'S LOOK AHEAD, WHAT'S
NEW FOR INSURANCE PLANS?
WHO CAN ENROLL?
AND WHERE CAN YOU GET
INFORMATION?
FOR THOSE AND OTHER ANSWERS WE
TURN TO ADAM VAN SPANKEREN, THE
COVERING WISCONSIN LEAD
NAVIGATOR.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> WHAT CAN CONSUMERS EXPECT TO
SEE IN TERMS OF PLAN OPTIONS
THIS YEAR?
>> SURE.
THERE ARE MORE PLAN OPTIONS THAN
EVER IN THE STATE AND THEY HAVE
IN GENERAL -- THE PREMIUMS HAVE
GONE DOWN BY AN AVERAGE OF 4%,
IN SOME CASES A LOT MORE THAN
THAT.
YOU HAVE MORE PLAN OPTIONS THAN
EVER.
61 COUNTIES OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT HAVE THREE PLANS AT LEAST
TO CHOOSE FROM.
>> AND WE WERE TALKING JUST A
MOMENT AGO ABOUT HOW CONSUMERS
HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT CAREFUL
THIS YEAR IN LOOKING AT THOSE
PLAN OPTIONS BECAUSE THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT HAS ALLOWED A
DIFFERENT KIND OF ARRAY.
>> SURE.
SO IT'S REAL REALLY IMPORTANT PEOPLE
GO TO healthcare.gov IF
THEY'RE DEALING WITH THE
MARKETPLACE.
THE SHORT-TERM PLANS ARE
MARKETED AT THE SAME TIME AND
THEY TEND TO LOOK APPEALING
BECAUSE THEY'RE CHEAPER.
BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME
COVERAGE.
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY COVER
PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.
THEY OFTEN HAVE A LOT OF LIMITS.
SO THEY DON'T ADHERE TO THE SAME
ACA RULES.
>> AND THOSE PLANS WILL DESCRIBE
THAT'S THE CASE?
>> IN THE FINE PRINT.
SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE
KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND IF
THEY NEED ASSISTANCE, THEY CAN
COME TO AN EXPERT LIKE A
NAVIGATOR, WHO WILL HELP THEM
CHOOSE BETWEEN DIFFERENT
OPTIONS.
>> THEY CAN DO THAT BY PHONE, IN
PERSON OR ONLINE?
>> YES.
SO THEY CAN DEFINITELY ENROLL BY
THEMSELVES AT healthcare.gov
OR BY CALLING, BUT WORK WITH A
PERSON.
WE LIKE TO DO IT FACE-TO-FACE
BECAUSE IT'S THE BEST OUTCOME
FOR THE CONSUMER.
IT'S THE MOST EDUCATIONAL.
YOU GET THE BEST RESULT THAT
WAY.
BUT WE CAN DO IT OVER THE PHONE
AND PLAN TO DO THAT FOR THE MORE
RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE.
>> WHO IS ELIGIBLE TO ENROLL?
>> ANYONE WHO IS UNINSURED RIGHT
NOW, HONESTLY.
BASICALLY, ANYBODY WHO NEEDS
INSURANCE AND IS OVER THE LIMIT
FOR BADGERCARE.
THE PEOPLE UNDER THE LIMIT MIGHT
BE ELIGIBLE FOR THAT AND WE
WOULD CHECK FOR THAT AS WELL.
>> WHO GETS SUBSIDIES AND HOW
MUCH DO THEY OFFSET THE
PREMIUMS?
>> SURE.
THE SUBSIDIES GO UP TO 400% OF
THE POVERTY LEVEL, WHICH IS KIND
OF A USELESS NUMBER, SO IF
YOU'RE THINKING, YOU KNOW, ONE
PERSON I THINK LIKE $50,000 OR A
LITTLE BIT LESS THAN THAT WOULD
BE 400% OF THE POVERTY LEVEL.
YOU GET HELP TO PAY YOUR PREMIUM
UP TO THAT LEVEL.
THE LOWER YOU ARE, THE MORE HELP
YOU GET.
IN SOME CASES WHEN YOU'RE
STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET AND
YOU'RE NOT MAKING A LOT OF
MONEY, THOSE PREMIUMS CAN GO
DOWN DRAMATICALLY, EVEN LIKE 15
CENTS.
>> ACCORDING TO STATE OFFICIALS,
ABOUT 400,000 PEOPLE IN
WISCONSIN WERE UNINSURED AT SOME
POINT IN 2018.
WHY HAS ENROLLMENT IN THE ACA
PLAN SLIPPED?
>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD
QUESTION.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FACTORS,
ONE OF WHICH IS THE ENROLLMENT
PERIOD SHORTENED IN THAT TIME.
IT USED TO BE THREE MONTHS AND
NOW IT'S SIX WEEKS.
AND OUTREACH AND MARKETING HAS
STOPPED.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS
STOPPED MARKETING THE INSURANCE
MARKETPLACE.
SO IT'S BEEN A BURDEN ON A LOT
OF PARTNERS AND NONPROFIT
GROUPS, OUR GROUP COVERING
WISCONSIN TO SPREAD THE WORD.
>> WHERE SHOULD PEOPLE GO IF
THEY WANT TO GET INFORMATION?
>> CALL 211 BECAUSE THAT IS A
RESOURCE THAT ANYONE CAN DO.
JUST DIAL 211 AND GET REFERRED
TO AN ASSISTER IN YOUR AREA,
MAYBE A NAVIGATOR, OR CALL
COVERING WISCONSIN, GO TO OUR
WEBSITE WHERE ALL OUR SCHEDULES
ARE.
WE HAVE WALK-IN EVENTS IN THIS
AREA EVERY SATURDAY AND
THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
>> WOW.
AND ALSO healthcare.gov
>> ALWAYS healthcare.gov.
>> ADAM VAN SPANKEREN, THANKS
VERY MUCH.
>> GREAT.
THANK YOU.
>> NEW LONG-FORM REPORTING FROM
THE WISCONSIN CENTER FOR
INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM LOOKS
AT A PROPOSAL TO EXPUNGE SOME
NONVIOLENT CRIMINAL RECORDS.
PROPONENTS OF A BIPARTISAN
LEGISLATIVE BILL SAY SUCH A LAW
CHANGE WOULD HELP PEOPLE WITH
PAST RECORDS FOR SUCH THINGS AS
MARIJUANA POSSESSION GET JOBS OR
PROFESSIONAL LICENSES, FOR
EXAMPLE.
LEGAL ACTION OF WISCONSIN SAYS
MARIJUANA EXPUNGEMENTS COULD BE
ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR THOSE
WHO WERE CONVICTED DECADES AGO,
WHEN FIRST-TIME EVEN MINOR
POSSESSION WAS CHARGED AS A
FELONY.
HERE TO TALK WITH US, SUSAN LUND
FROM LEGAL ACTION OF WISCONSIN,
FROM MILWAUKEE.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> HOW HARD IS IT CURRENTLY IN
WISCONSIN TO GET SUCH CRIMINAL
RECORDS EXPUNGED?
>> WELL, PEOPLE CALL LEGAL
ACTION EVERY DAY SEEKING ACCESS
TO EXPUNGEMENT.
AND WHEN WE TAKE THOSE CALLS,
OFTENTIMES THEY ARE TRYING TO
MOVE FORWARD, RIGHT, TO HAVE
ACCESS TO EDUCATION, SAFE AND
STABLE HOUSING, FINDING
FAMILY-SUSTAINING WORK.
AND WHAT WE HAVE TO TELL A LOT
OF THEM IS THAT THEY DON'T
QUALIFY TO PETITION FOR
EXPUNGEMENT BECAUSE OF TWO MAIN
ASPECTS OF OUR CURRENT LAW.
THE FIRST ONE IS THAT YOU HAVE
TO HAVE BEEN UNDER THE AGE OF 25
AT THE TIME OF THE COMMISSION OF
THE OFFENSE TO QUALIFY TO
PETITION FOR EXPUNGEMENT.
AND THE SECOND ASPECT IS A
PRETTY UNUSUAL PROCEDURAL
REQUIREMENT THAT THE INDIVIDUAL
HAS TO HAVE EXPUNGEMENT GRANTED
AT THE TIME OF SENTENCING IN
ORDER TO QUALIFY.
SO THAT IS VERY LIMITING.
>> YEAH.
BOTH THOSE RULES SEEM UNUSUAL TO
ME, BUT, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS
WHAT WAS GOING ON WHEN THEY
WROTE THOSE LAWS.
BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR A
RECORD TO BE EXPUNGED?
>> THE PRACTICAL IMPACT OF
HAVING A A RECORD EXPUNGED WOULD
MEAN THAT THE COURT REMOVES
ACCESS, PUBLIC ACCESS TO THAT
FILE IN THE COURTHOUSE AND ALSO
TAKES IT DOWN FROM THE FREE AND
EASILY SEARCHABLE COURT RECORDS
DATABASE ONLINE.
>> AND PRESUMABLY EMPLOYERS AND
LANDLORDS AND OTHERS ARE
ACCESSING THAT CCAP, AS IT'S
KNOWN, THOSE ONLINE RECORDS
AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC, AND
FINDING THESE CRIMINAL RECORDS
OF THESE PEOPLE?
>> YES.
THE FREE, SEARCHABLE COURT
RECORDS ONLINE IN CCAP HAS BEEN
A REAL GAME-CHANGER IN
WISCONSIN.
IT HAS REALLY ENHANCED THE
STIGMATIZING IMPACT OF A
CRIMINALLECRIMINAL CONVICTION BECAUSE NOW
IT'S NEARLY UNIVERSAL FOR
EMPLOYERS OR LANDLORDS TO DO A
COURT RECORD SEARCH BEFORE THEY
WILL EXTEND A JOB OFFER OR
HOUSING OPPORTUNITY.
>> ACCORDING TO WISCONSIN CENTER
FOR INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM
REPORTING, ARRESTS FOR MARIJUANA
ARE THE NUMBER ONE DRUG OFFENSE
IN WISCONSIN, AFFECTING NEARLY
20,000 PEOPLE IN 2018 ALONE.
SO IN YOUR EXPERIENCES, IS THIS
THE KIND OF CASE THAT IS MOST
OFTEN BROUGHT TO YOUR OFFICE?
>> FOLKS BRING A VARIETY OF LOW
LEVEL CASES TO OUR OFFICE
SEEKING EXPUNGEMENT, A LOT OF
NONVIOLENT DRUG POSSESSION
CASES, SOME PUBLIC BENEFITS OVER
PAYMENTS CASES, A VARIETY OF
CASES THAT ARE IMPACTING THEIR
ABILITY TO FIND HOUSING,
EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AND
EMPLOYMENT.
>> DO YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR CASE
OF ONE OF YOUR CLIENTS -- OF
COURSE, NOT NAMING ANYONE, BUT
THAT STANDS OUT, OF AN
EXPERIENCE WHERE IT JUST SEEMED
AS THOUGH THIS PROCESS REALLY
HURT THEIR BUSINESS GOING
FORWARD?
>> WELL, ONE THAT COMES TO MIND
IS JUST LAST WEEK AN INDIVIDUAL
CALLED OUR OFFICE SEEKING ACCESS
TO EXPUNGEMENT BECAUSE OF A
NONVIOLENT CONVICTION ON THEIR
RECORD FROM THE '80s.
SO THEY WERE CALLING BECAUSE
THEY'D SERVED THEIR SENTENCE AND
THEY'D PAID ALL THEIR COURT FEES
AND THEY HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT
THIS CASE IN DECADES, BUT JUST
THIS MONTH THEY HAD APPLIED FOR
A A JOB AND THEN TURNED DOWN
BASED ON IT.
SO I EASILY PULLED THE RECORD OF
THAT CASE UP ON ONLINE AND I SAW
WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT.
SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT
HAS COME INTO OUR OFFICE IN THE
LAST MONTH THAT STICKS WITH ME.
>> THE WISCONSIN POLICY FORUM
SAYS THAT MORE THAN 80,000 CASES
COULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR
EXPUNGEMENT UNDER THE PROPOSED
LAW CHANGE.
WHAT ARE THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES
UNDER THE BILL THAT WOULD
BROADEN THE ABILITY FOR
EXPUNGEMENT TO THAT EXTENT?
>> SURE.
A COUPLE OF THE ASPECTS OF THE
PROPOSAL IS IT REMOVES THE AGE
REQUIREMENT, RIGHT?
SO THE PERSON WOULD NO LONGER
HAVE TO BE UNDER THE AGE OF 25
TO QUALIFY TO ASK A JUDGE FOR
EXPUNGEMENT.
THE SECOND THING IS IT DOES
REMOVE THIS UNUSUAL PROCEDURAL
REQUIREMENT THAT A JUDGE WOULD
HAVE TO ORDER EXPUNGEMENT AT THE
TIME OF SENTENCING, WHICH,
AGAIN, IS JUST -- IT'S THE
PUNISHMENT PHASE OF THE CASE AND
JUDGES ARE RELUCTANT TO ORDER
EXPUNGEMENT AT THAT TIME, SO
THAT LIMITING ASPECT OF THE LAW
IS REMOVED IN THE PROPOSAL.
A THIRD THING IS THAT THE
PROPOSAL MAKES THIS RETROACTIVE,
SO IT WOULD MEAN THAT PEOPLE WHO
WERE PREVIOUSLY SENTENCED UNDER
THE OLD EXPUNGEMENT LAW COULD
NOW HAVE A PROCESS TO PETITION
FOR EXPUNGEMENT.
AND A FOURTH COMPONENT THAT'S
IMPORTANT IS THE PROPOSAL MAKES
CLEAR THAT IT WOULD NOW BE
UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT
DISCRIMINATION TO DENY AN
INDIVIDUAL A JOB BASED ON AN
EXPUNGEMENTED CONVICTION.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE WILL WATCH THE PROGRESS OF
THAT BILL.
SUSAN LUND, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR
EXPLAINING IT TO US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> YOU CAN SEE THE FULL
WISCONSIN CENTER FOR
INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM REPORT
BY GOING TO
WISCONSINWATCH.ORG.
>> NOW FOR AN UPDATE ON THE
ACHIEVEMENT GAP BETWEEN WHITE
AND BLACK STUDENTS IN WISCONSIN.
>> THIS WEEK THE NATIONAL
ASSESSMENT OF EDUCATIONAL
PROGRESS, ALSO KNOWN AS THE
NATION'S REPORT CARD, RELEASED
RESULTS FINDING WISCONSIN HAS
THE WIDEST ACHIEVEMENT GAP IN
THE COUNTRY.
SCORES SHOW THE GAP BETWEEN
BLACK AND WHITE STUDENTS
INCREASING IN BOTH MATH AND
READING.
OF THE STUDENTS WHO TOOK THE
TEST LAST SPRING, WHITE 4TH
GRADERS SCORED AN AVERAGE OF 227
IN READING, WHERES AS BLACK 4TH
GRADERS SCORED 188, WIDENING THE
SCORE GAP BY SEVEN POINTS SINCE
2017.
IN MATH, WHITE 4TH GRADERS
SCORED 249, WHILE BLACK STUDENTS
SCORED AN AVERAGE OF 212,
INCREASING THE GAP BY ONE POINT.
THE WISCONSIN SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION SAID THE
RESULTS INDICATE A, QUOTE,
CRISIS AND THAT CLOSING THE GAP
IS IMPERATIVE FOR THE STATE.
>> AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR
TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.