>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," U.S.
SENATOR RON JOHNSON ON
IMPEACHMENT DEVELOPMENTS IN
WASHINGTON.
AN INTERVIEW WITH THE U.S.
AGRICULTURE SECRETARY FOLLOWED
BY A CRVES CONVERSATION WITH THE
SECRETARY OF AG.
AN INSIDE LOOK AS THE 2020
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HEATS UP.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
OCTOBER 4.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
>> A FIRST LOOK TONIGHT AT THE
IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS
INVOLVING DONALD TRUMP.
WHILE THE DEMOCRATS IN CONTROL
OF THE HOUSE INVESTIGATE THE
PRESIDENT, REPUBLICANS IN
CONTROL OF THE SENATE ARE
LOOKING ELSEWHERE.
"HERE AND NOW" REPORTER ZAC
SCHULTZ CAUGHT UP WITH WISCONSIN
U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON TO ASK
HIM WHY HE'S ONCE AGAIN LOOKING
AT HILLARY CLINTON'S EMAILS AND
WHETHER WE CAN TRUST WHAT THE
PRESIDENT IS SAYING WHEN HE
TWEETS ABOUT A POTENTIAL CIVIL
WAR.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD NOT BE
USING THE TYPES OF TERMINOLOGY,
TALKING ABOUT POTENTIAL CIVIL
WAR.
AT THE SAME TIME, I WANT TO KNOW
THE TRUTH, AND I THINK YOU
CERTAINLY COULD TAKE A LOOK AT
HIS CONVERSATION.
I SPOKE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP
BEFORE I WENT TO UKRAINE.
I OBVIOUSLY WAS THERE WITH THE
PRESIDENT.
HE INDICATED THAT NO PRESSURE
WHATSOEVER.
HE'S OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED ABOUT
THE FUNDING, AS WAS I, BUT HE
WAS COMING OUT TODAY SAYING
THERE WAS NO PRESSURE.
IT'S REASONABLE TO CONCLUDE WHAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS TALKING
ABOUT AS THE CHIEF LAW
ENFORCEMENT OF THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH, LET'S GET TO THE TRUTH.
WHAT HAPPENED IN UKRAINE AS
RELATES TO 2016 ELECTION.
I WANT TO FIND OUT WHERE DID
THIS NARRATIVE COME THAT HAS PUT
THIS COUNTRY THROUGH AN ORDEAL
THAT WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE
HAD TO GO THROUGH.
SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE A
RIGHT TO KNOW.
I'M INQUISITIVE.
I CAN UNDERSTAND AND I'M
SYMPATHETIC WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP
WANTING TO FIND OUT WHAT CAUSED
ALL THIS.
WHY WAS THIS COUNTRY WRUNG
THROUGH THIS DAMAGING BUSINESS.
>> WHAT WE TRUST WHAT HE SAYS
WHAT HE TWEETS OUT MESSAGES?
>> HE HAS AN UNORTHODOX STYLE.
HE'S LOOSE WITH SOME OF HIS
TWEETS.
HIS SUPPORTERS AGREE WITH THE
DIRECTION OF HIS POLICIES, WISH
HE WOULD TWEET A WHOLE LOT LESS.
>> DOES HE DAMAGE CREDIBILITY
WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT ISSUES LIKE
THIS?
>> WHEN YOU GET IT WRONG TOO
MANY TIMES, YOU START DAMAGING
YOUR CREDIBILITY.
FROM MY STANDPOINT, THE MOST
VALUABLE QUALITY A PUBLIC
OFFICIAL CAN HAVE IS
CREDIBILITY.
>> HAS THE PRESIDENT LOST
CREDIBILITY WITH YOU?
>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS
THAT HE'S TWEETED THAT ARE NOT
ACCURATE AND THAT'S NOT A GOOD
THING.
>> WHY ARE YOU INVESTIGATING
FORMER SECRETARY CLINTON AND HER
EMAILS AGAIN?
WHAT'S BRINGING THAT ISSUE BACK?
>> WE WANT TO FIND OUT SOME
ANSWERS.
WHEN YOU ARE CONDUCTING
CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION WHEN
THERE'S ALSO CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION, WE DON'T HAVE
ACCESS TO ANY INFORMATION.
I THINK WE HE DO WE DO THESE THINGS
BACKWARDS.
THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW
IF THERE'S IMPROPER BEHAVIOR ON
THE RIGHT OF A PUBLIC OFFICIAL.
WE SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THE
INFORMATION, HOLD HEARINGS,
WRITE REPORTS.
BASED ON THOSE REPORTS, TALKING
ABOUT PUBLIC OFFICIALS, IF
THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR A
CRIMINAL REFERRAL, WE REFER THAT
TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
IF THEY CAN'T HANDLE IT BECAUSE
OF CONFLICTS, THEN THEY SET UP A
SPECIAL COUNSEL.
FOR THE RUSSIAN COLLUSION IT
WENT BACKWARDS AND AS A RESULT
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC STILL
DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AND
EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED WITH
THE FBI'S HANDLING OF THAT
INVESTIGATION.
SO, AGAIN, ALL I WANT TO DO IS
GET TO THE BOTTOM OF SO MANY
DIFFERENT ISSUES.
I HAVE SO MANY ANSWERS -- OR SO
MANY QUESTIONS THAT I WANT
ANSWERED BECAUSE IF SOMETHING
HAPPENED, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
NEED TO KNOW IT.
IF NOTHING HAPPENED, THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW
THAT SO WE CAN MOVE ON.
WE HAVE ENORMOUS CHALLENGES,
SERIOUS ISSUES.
WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON THOSE.
BUT UNTIL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND WHAT DID AND DIDN'T
HAPPEN, IT'S GOING TO BE
DIFFICULT TO MOVE BEYOND THIS
AND WE'LL REMAIN IN THIS
PARTISAN LOG JAM.
>> DEMOCRATS SAY THEY'RE BEING
STONEWALLED BY SOME OF THE
PRESIDENT'S CABINET MEMBERS AND
HIS EMPLOYEES.
AS A COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN, HOW
WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU WERE
GETTING NO RESPONSE OR BEING
TOLD THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO
COME TO TESTIFY BEFORE YOUR
COMMITTEE?
>> I'VE BEEN STONEWALLED BY BOTH
ADMINISTRATIONS.
THERE'S RELUCTANCE TO SHARE
INFORMATION WITH CONGRESS.
THEY DON'T WANT TO SET DIFFERENT
PRECEDENTS.
THERE IS A REASON WHY YOU HAVE
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE.
THERE'S A REASON WHY IT'S VERY
DAMAGING NOW THAT ANOTHER
TELEPHONE CONVERSATION
TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN LEAKED.
AND IN THIS CASE IT WAS JUST
BASICALLY OFFERED BECAUSE
PRESIDENT WANTED TO EXONERATE
HIMSELF.
THAT'S INCREDIBLY DAMAGING.
WORLD LEADERS, MEMBERS OF THE
PRESIDENT'S STAFF, HAVE TO BE
ABLE TO HAVE CANDID
CONVERSATIONS IN ORDER FOR A
PRESIDENT TO CONDUCT FOREIGN
POLICY OR TO GOVERN EFFECTIVELY.
IT'S AN ENORMOUS CHALLENGE BEING
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
YOU NEED CANDID ADVICE, CANDID
CONVERSATIONS.
THERE'S A REASON YOU HAVE
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE AND WHY
THESE TRANSCRIPTS NEVER SHOULD
HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY.
>> IF THE HOUSE VOTES TIME
PEACH,-- VOTESTO IMPEACH, DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE
ANY ACTION ON YOUR COMMITTEE?
>> WE HAVE NEVER STOPPED OUR
GATHERING OF INFORMATION.
I NEVER HELD A TRIAL ON HILLARY
CLINTON'S EMAIL.
I'M JUST TRYING TO GATHER THE
INFORMATION TO GET TO THE TRUTH.
I WOULD EXPECT THAT GATHERING OF
INFORMATION INVESTIGATION WILL
CONTINUE.
AT SOME POINT IN TIME WE REQUIRE
A HEARING, WE'LL HOLD ONE.
>> THANK YOU, SENATOR.
>> THANK YOU.
>> BY FRIDAY, THE SENATOR WAS
DOUBLING DOWN WITH CALLS TO LOOK
INTO HILLARY CLINTON'S CAMPAIGN,
AS WELL AS THE UKRAINIAN COMPANY
THAT HUNTER BIDEN WORKED FOR.
HE SAYS HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLING ON CHINA
TO INVESTIGATE.
FOR HER PART, DEMOCRATIC U.S.
SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN SENT OUT
THIS TWEET ON THE IMPEACHMENT
EFFORTS.
QUOTE, THIS IS YOUR DEMOCRACY
AND WE SHOULD STAND UNITED AND
PUT OUR COUNTRY FIRST SENDING A
CLEAR MESSAGE TO DONALD TRUMP
AND THE REST OF THE WORLD THAT
WE WILL NOT TOLERATE FOREIGN
INTERFERENCE IN OUR AMERICAN
ELECTIONS."
>> NOW TO AGRICULTURE NEWS AND
ONGOING CHALLENGES FOR STATE
FARMERS.
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS HAD SOME
CHOICE WORDS FOR U.S.
AGRICULTURE SECRETARY SONNY
PERDUE IN THE AFTERMATH OF
PERDUE'S VISIT TO WISCONSIN THIS
WEEK.
EVERS SAID THAT PERDUE KIND OF
PUT THE POX ON SMALL FARMING AND
AMERICA'S DAIRYLAND.
HE WAS REFERRING TO COMMENTS
PERDUE MADE IN MADISON SPEAKING
ABOUT THE SIZE OF FARMS
SURVIVING IN TODAY'S ECONOMY,
PERDUE SAID, QUOTE, BIG GET
BIGGER AND SMALL GO OUT.
"HERE AND NOW'S" ZAC SCHULTZ
CAUGHT UP WITH SECRETARY PERDUE
AFTER THE DAIRY EXPO APPEARANCE
AND ASKED HIM TO CLARIFY HIS
STATEMENT ABOUT THE DECLINE OF
SMALL FARMS, WHICH WAS SHUTTING
DOWN LAST YEAR AT A RATE OF TWO
PER DAY.
>> AGAIN, WHAT I SEE HAPPENING
NATIONALLY, A LOT OF THE SMALLER
DAIRIES ARE DOING VALUE-ADDED,
SOME OF THEIR OWN PROCESSING,
ICE CREAM OR OTHER TYPES OF
PRODUCTS AND THEY'RE BEING VERY
SUCCESSFUL.
THAT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.
BUT IN DAIRY TODAY THE CAPITAL
INVESTMENT IS SO GREAT IT'S
PRETTY TOUGH OUT THERE.
I WILL NOTE THAT THE NEW FARM
BILL, 2018 FARM BILL, PROVIDES A
HOT OF HELP FOR SMALLER DAIRIES
THAT WERE NOT HELPED IN THE '14
FARM BILL.
THAT'S A BIG CHANGE.
I WOULD ASK THEM TO INVESTIGATE
THAT AND APPLY FOR THAT DAIRY
MARGIN COVERAGE PROGRAM AS WELL
AS THE FARM BUREAU INSURANCE
PROGRAM.
IT'S A RISK MANAGEMENT THAT
HELPS THEM REALLY HAVE A MINIMUM
PRICE FOR THEIR DAIRY PRODUCTS.
>> IN A STATE LIKE WISCONSIN,
THERE'S AN EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT
TO SMALL FARMS.
FOR ECONOMIC REASONS DO WE NEED
TO PUT SOME OF THAT EMOTION
ASIDE, UNDERSTANDING SOME FALL
FARMS WILL HAVE TO GO AWAY?
>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION.
WHETHER IT'S FARMING OR ANY
OTHER SMALL BUSINESS, THERE'S NO
GUARANTEED SUCCESS RATE.
THAT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE WE DO
HAVE A SENTIMENTAL ATTACHMENT TO
SMALL FAMILY FARMS.
IT'S JUST THAT THE ECONOMY OF
SCALE IN AGRICULTURE AND THE
ECONOMICS OF FARMING HAS BECOME
SO TIGHT IN RECENT YEARS THAT
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE
FARMING ON SMALL HERDS OR SMALL
ACREAGE THERE UNLESS YOU ARE A
HIGH-VALUE TYPE OF CROP.
AND MANY YOUNG FARMERS ARE
BEGINNING IN HIGH-VALUE TYPE
CROPS.
LAST WEEK I WAS IN MICHIGAN.
THREE-ACRE CUT FLOWER OPERATION.
THERE ARE WAYS TO GROW.
WE'RE ALSO SEEING A LOT OF
EFFORT IN THE DIRECT FARM TO
TABLE MOVEMENT IN THE HIGH VALUE
OF SPECIALTY CROPS THAT YOUNG
BEGINNING FARMERS ARE ACTIVE IN.
BUT THE COMMERCIAL IDEA OF
GETTING OUT HERE AND HAVING THE
FINANCES TO BUY 1,000 ACRES AND
DO COMMERCIAL SCALE FARMING IS
DIFFICULT THESE DAYS.
>> U.S. SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE
SONNY PERDUE.
FOR REACTION TO HIS REMARKS AS
WELL AS HIS OWN APPROACH TO
SUSTAIN WISCONSIN FARMS, WE TURN
NOW TO STATE SECRETARY OF
AGRICULTURE DESIGNEE,
PUBLIC-PRIVATE.
THANKS-- BRAD PFAFF.THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SECRETARY PERDUE CAUSED SOME
CONSTERNATION THIS WEEK BY
SAYING FARMERS MAY HAVE TO GET
BIGGER TO SURVIVE.
HOW TRUE IS THAT?
>> WELL, WE'VE ALL HAD
ECONOMICS.
WE UNDERSTAND WHAT ECONOMY OF
SCALES MEAN.
BUT WE ALSO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE
HAVE HERE IN WISCONSIN.
WE HAVE THE WISCONSIN WAY.
OUR FARMS ARE NOT NENG NEW ENGLAND OR
CALIFORNIA.
OUR FARMS ARE CREATED HERE IN
WISCONSIN.
THEY'RE OF ALL SIZES, SHAPES AND
SCALES, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
WE ALSO HAVE A SYSTEM OF
AGRICULTURE IN THIS STATE HAYES THAT
IS BUILT UPON DIFFERENTIATION OF
PRODUCT, VALUE-ADDED.
WE CAN TAKE THE MILK THAT IS
PRODUCED IN THE COUNTRYSIDE HERE
AND MAKE IT INTO HIGH-QUALITY
CHEESES THAT ARE ENJOYED AROUND
THE WORLD.
THAT PROVIDES VALUE ALONG THE
SUPPLY CHAIN.
IT ALSO EMPLOYS PEOPLE NOT JUST
ON THE FARM, BUT ALSO WITHIN OUR
SMALL TOWNS AND YOU'RE AND OUR RURAL
COMMUNITIES.
ANYTIME SOMEBODY SAYS GET BIG OR
GET OUT, THAT DOESN'T SIT WELL
WITH OUR FAMILY FARMERS.
WE NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN THE
COUNTRYSIDE.
AND SO THERE IS PRESSURE ON THE
COUNTRYSIDE.
WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT.
BUT RATHER THAN SAYING YOU
EITHER HAVE TO GET BIG OR GET
OUT, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT
NEW WAYS IN WHICH WE CAN MAKE
SURE THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO
KEEP OUR FARMS PROFITABLE GOING
FORWARD REGARDLESS OF THEIR SIZE
OR SCALE.
>> SPEAKING OF GLOBAL MARKETS,
HOW BADLY HAVE TRADE POLICIES
AFFECTED WISCONSIN FARMERS?
>> THEY DEFINITELY HAVE.
OUR FARMERS HAVE BEEN HIT WITH A
TRIPLE WHAMMY.
WE'VE HAD DIFFICULT WEATHER,
FIVE YEARS OF LOW PRICES AND
INTERNATIONAL TRADE UNCERTAINTY.
EVERYBODY'SBEING IMPACTED IN THE
RURAL COMMUNITIES WHEN WE DO NOT
HAVE MARKETS THAT ARE OPEN.
CHINA IS THE SECOND LARGEST
MARKET FOR WISCONSIN AGRICULTURE
PRODUCTS.
WE NEED TO FIND MORE MARKETS.
I AM HAPPY TO SAY IN 2018
WISCONSIN AGRICULTURE PRODUCTS
WERE SHIPPED TO AND ENJOYED BY
CONSUMERS IN OVER 200 COUNTRIES.
BUT WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN ONE OF THE LARGEST
TRADING PARTNERS ALL OF A SUDDEN
THEIR MARKET SAYS NO MORE, WE
DON'T WANT YOUR PRODUCT, WHAT
ARE WE GOING TO DO.
AND THAT HAS HAD A DAMPENING
EFFECT ON OUR FARMERS AND
RESIDENTS.
>> LET'S TAKE ANOTHER LISTEN TO
SECRETARY PERDUE ON THIS MATTER.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN VERY
GENEROUS LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR
WITH $12 BILLION AND $16 BILLION
TRYING TO TIDE US THROUGH THESE
TRADE DISRUPTIONS.
BUT LET'S NOT COUNT ON THAT.
EVERY FARMER WOULD RATHER HAVE A
GOOD CROP AT A GOOD PRICE THAN A
GOVERNMENT CHECK AND LET'S PLAN
ON THAT.
IT MAY BE A TIME WHERE WE DON'T
HAVE THE OPTIMUM PROFITABILITY
WE WOULD LIKE.
WE HAVE TO SETTLE FOR JUST ABLE
TO DO IT NEXT YEAR.
PLAN FOR THE MARKET JUST LIKE
THEY ALWAYS HAVE AND IF NOTHING
HAPPENS IN TRADE, MAYBE WE CAN
SEE SOME HELP IN THE FUTURE AS
WELL.
>> WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT
THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF
DIRECT AID AND HOW THEY HAVE
REACHED AND HELPED WISCONSIN
FARMERS?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE
FEDERAL TAXPAYERS HAVE PROVIDED
$28 BILLION WORTH OF TRADE
ASSISTANCE TO OUR FAMILY
FARMERS.
THERE'S NOT A FARMER THAT I KNOW
THAT WOULD NOT RATHER SELL THEIR
PRODUCT THAN RECEIVE GOVERNMENT
AID.
NOW, WE APPRECIATE THE
ASSISTANCE THAT THE FEDERAL
TAXPAYERS HAVE PROVIDED, BUT
THESE FARMERS DID NOT ASK FOR
THIS.
FARMERS WANT TO BE ABLE TO SELL
THEIR PRODUCT.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S
GLOBAL ECONOMIC PRESSURES TAKING
PLACE.
WE RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT WE
NEED TO HAVE A PARTNERSHIP AND A
TRADING RELATIONSHIP WITH
COUNTRIES THAT IS FAIR AND BALD.
-- BALANCED.
CHINA HAS NOT BEEN FAIR WITH
WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.
BUT WHY?
AND I STILL ASK THIS QUESTION.
I HAVEN'T GOT AN ANSWER.
WE UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT
CHINA AND TECHNOLOGY AND THEY'VE
BEEN TAKING AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY
AND THEY NEED TO BE HELD
RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
BUT WHY ARE OUR FAMILY FARMERS
IN WISCONSIN BEING HELD
RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT?
LET'S ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT'S
TAKING PLACE WITH CHINA.
AND I WILL ALSO SAY THIS.
WHY IS AMERICA DOING THIS ALONE?
LET'S DO IT WITH OUR PARTNERS,
MAY THEY BE IN EUROPE OR
ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY,
BECAUSE WHAT'S HAPPENING IS
CHINA IS STILL BUYING
AGRICULTURE PRODUCTS.
THEY'RE JUST BUYING IT FROM
OTHER COUNTRIES.
AND SO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE
CHINA SITUATION.
BUT THE THING IS IS RIGHT NOW
THE AMERICAN FARMERS AND THE
WISCONSIN FARMERS ARE PAYING THE
PRICE FOR THIS.
>> HOW FAR DOWN DID THOSE
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS GO TO THE
REACH OF MAYBE SMALL FARMERS IN
WISCONSIN?
>> WELL, IT HAS BEEN BASED UPON
YOUR PRODUCTION HISTORY.
SO AGAIN IT'S BASED UPON HOW
MUCH CORN OTHER SOYBEANS YOU
GROW OR HOW MUCH MILK YOU
PRODUCE.
AGAIN, IT IS CAPPED AT A LEVEL.
SO IF YOU'RE A VERY LARGE FARM,
YOU WILL ONLY RECEIVE A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF MONEY.
BUT THE REST OF THE -- IF YOU'RE
A SMALLER SCALE FARM, IT WILL BE
BASED UPON YOUR PRODUCTION
HISTORY.
AND SO, AGAIN, THE ASSISTANCE IS
APPRECIATED, BUT, AGAIN, MUCH
RATHER SELL TO THE MARKETPLACE.
>> CAN WISCONSIN RECOVER FROM
LOST GLOBAL MARKETS?
>> WE CAN, AND WE WILL CONTINUE
TO FIND NEW MARKETS.
THIS IS A GROWING WORLD, AND
IT'S A PROTEIN-HUNGRY WORLD.
PEOPLE WANT A PROTEIN DIET.
WE ARE A PROCEED-RICH PROTEIN-RICH STATE.
WE HAVE TO BUILD UPON THE
SUCCESSES THAT WE HAVE.
WE NEED TO IMPROVE OUR
LOGISTICS.
WE NEED TO IMPROVE OUR SUPPLY
CHAIN.
WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO INVEST IN
OUR FARMERS BUT ALSO WITHIN OUR
PROCESSORS AND THE ENTIRE SUPPLY
CHAIN TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO
FEED THE WORLD.
>> THERE IS SOME GOOD NEWS.
IT APPEARS THAT MILK PRICES SEEM
TO BE IN RECOVERY.
IF FARMS AROUND THE PRECIPICE OF
GOING UNDER, WILL THIS HELP
THEM?
>> IT WILL.
BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE
BUILD FOR THE FUTURE.
WE WANT A WISCONSIN AGRICULTURE
THAT IS SUSTAINABLE.
THERE'S THREE IMPORTANT TEN TENETS.
IT HAS TO BE CONSERVATION
SUSTAINABLE.
WE NEED TO BUILD UPON THE
TRADITION THAT'S SUSTAINABLE.
AGRICULTURE IS WHO WE ARE.
IT'S ON OUR LICENSE PLATES.
WE'RE AMERICA'S DAIRYLAND.
IT'S WHAT BRINGS US TOGETHER.
>> BRAD PFAFF, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> NOW TO THE 2020 RACE FOR
PRESIDENT AND WISCONSIN'S ROLE.
IN TONIGHT'S INSIDE LOOK, WE GOT
A CHANCES TO CATCH UP WITH 538
SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER CLARE
MALONE.
MALONE SERVED AS THE FALL 2019
PUBLIC AFFAIRS JOURNALIST IN
RESIDENCE AT UW-MADISON.
SHE TALKS ABOUT ELECTABILITY AND
IDENTITY POLITICS.
IN OUR DISCUSSION, WE STARTED BY
ASKING ABOUT THOSE TERMS AND HOW
THEY FACTOR IN THE RACE FOR
PRESIDENT HERE IN WISCONSIN.
>> WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
IDENTITY POLITICS, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT HOW WHITE PEOPLE AND BLACK
PEOPLE AND WOMEN AND MEN SEE THE
SAME ISSUE IN VERY DIFFERENT
WAYS.
AND I THINK IDENTITY POLITICS
CAN SOMETIMES GET THROWN AROUND
AS A BAD TERM.
BUT I DO ACTUALLY -- OR A TERM
THAT'S MEANT TO BE DE DERISIVE.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND
BECAUSE WE ARE REACTING TO
ISSUES EMOTIONALLY.
THAT'S THE WAY HUMAN BEINGS
INTERACT WITH THE WORLD.
>> HOW DOES IDENTITY POLITICS
FACTOR INTO WISCONSIN WITH ITS
OBAMA/TRUMP VOTERS?
>> WISCONSIN IS AN IMPORTANT
STATE.
IT HAS DEMOCRATIC VOTERS WHO
VOTED FOR OBAMA AND SWITCHED
OVER TO TRUMP.
THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT
WISCONSIN IS THAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE IDENTITY POLITICS OF
WHITE PEOPLE.
SO THOSE OBAMA/TRUMP VOTERS
TENDED TO BE WHITE PEOPLE
WITHOUT A COLLEGE EDUCATION WHO
HAD VOTED FOR DEMOCRATS FOR A
REALLY LONG TIME AND SOMETHING
KIND OF CHANGED IN THEIR PARTY
AFFILIATION DURING THE OBAMA
YEARS, DURING A TIME WHEN, YES,
WE HAD A BLACK PRESIDENT.
I THINK ISSUES ABOUT RACE WERE
TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE MORE
FRANKLY AND A LITTLE MORE OUT IN
THE OPEN.
AND I DO THINK THAT SOME PEOPLE,
YOU'LL HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT PC
CULTURE, RIGHT?
I THINK SOME SOME WAYS THAT'S A
REFERENCE TO THE MORE OPEN
CONVERSATION PEOPLE WERE HAVING
ABOUT RACE AND SOME OF THOSE
VOTERS SAW THAT AS, YOU KNOW,
YOU COULD SAY -- YOU CAN CALL IT
RACISM OR YOU CAN SAY IT'S A
REACTION TO WHAT THEY SAY IS A
BAD FOCUS FOR THE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY.
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SHOULD ONLY
BE FOCUSED ON ECONOMIC ISSUES,
NOT ISSUES OF RACE.
THOSE PEOPLE ENDED UP VOTING FOR
DONALD TRUMP.
YOU NO,THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS PEOPLE
VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP, BUT WE
DO SEE IN THE NUMBERS THAT THERE
WAS A REAL REALLY BIG SHIFT OF WHITE
NONCOLLEGE EDUCATED PEOPLE
SWITCHING OVER TO THE REPUBLICAN
SIDE OF THINGS.
AND YOU CAN'T HELP BUT THINK
THAT THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT
HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT.
>> HOW WILL THOSE VOTES BE WON
OVER IN THIS NEXT ELECTION?
>> WELL, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE
ON JOE BIDDEN'S TEAM WOULD TELL
YOU THAT JOE BIDEN IS THE
LEADING CANDIDATE WITH BLACK
VOTERS AND THEY WOULD SAY THAT
JOE BIDEN FOR THOSE OBAMA/TRUMP
VOTERS WHO KEEP ON ASKING OR
SAYING WE WANT THE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY OF OLD, WE WANT TO FOCUS
ON ECONOMIC ISSUES, THEY MIGHT
FIND JOE BIDEN TO BE, A, MORE OF
A MODERATE PERSON, BUT, B, HE
ALSO KIND OF LOOKS HOW WE THINK
PRESIDENTS HAVE TYPICALLY
LOOKED, RIGHT?
HE'S AN OLDER WHITE MAN.
AND I THINK THAT THERE IS
SOMETHING COMFORTING IN BIDEN'S
IDENTITY TO MAYBE THOSE
OBAMA/TRUMP VOTERS, WHITE,
NONCOLLEGE EDUCATED VOTERS IN
WISCONSIN, OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA
AND MICHIGAN.
SO THE OTHER CANDIDATES, I THINK
YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE MAKE ATTACKS
ON WARREN OR HARRIS OR EVEN
SANDERS FOR BEING TOO LIBERAL,
FOR ONE THING, AND ALSO BEING,
YOU KNOW, IN THE CASE OF THE
WOMEN, REMINDERS OF HILLARY
CLINTON AND THE 2016 CAMPAIGN.
>> SO IS ALL OF THAT AROUND
ELECTABILITY?
>> YES.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE IS --
ELECTABILITY IS SUCH A FREIGHTED
TERM THESE DAYS.
WHAT IT HAS COME TO MEAN IN THIS
CURRENT ELECTION CYCLE IS IT'S
BECOME A SHORTHAND FOR WHO CAN
WIN THOSE OBAMA/TRUMP VOTERS
BACK IN THE ELECTORALLY KEY
STATES OF WISCONSIN, FOR
INSTANCE.
AND I THINK IT IS AN UNDENIABLE
FACT THAT THOSE WISCONSIN SWING
VOTERS OF A CERTAIN PERSUASION
MIGHT BE MORE INCLINED TO LIKE
JOE BIDEN AND HIS IDENTITY AND
HIS MORE MODERATE POLICIES.
BECAUSE ONCE YOU GET INTO THE
ZONE OF TALKING ABOUT SAY BERNIE
SANDERS' AND ELIZABETH WARREN'S
HEALTH CARE PLANS, EVEN A LOT OF
DEMOCRATS DON'T LOVE THE IDEA OF
MEDICARE FOR ALL AND THEY MIGHT
BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH BIDEN'S
PLAN, WHICH IS MEDICARE FOR SOME
OR A PUBLIC OPTION.
SO I THINK YOU START TO GET INTO
REALLY INTERESTING INTERSECTING
ISSUES OF IDENTITY POLITICS BUT
ALSO JUST THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
IS IN AN IDEOLOGICAL FLUX.
>> IN TERMS OF THE ELECTABILITY
WORD, IS IT KIND OF FAIR OR
RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO TO SUPPORT
BASED ON ELECTABILITY?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT A LOT OF
DEMOCRATIC VOTERS ARE DOING IT.
THIS IS A FIRST -- AND TO A
CERTAIN EXTENT, YES.
IT'S A RATIONAL REACTION TO THE
REALITIES OF THE WORLD, RIGHT?
I THINK DEMOCRATIC VOTERS, THIS
IS THE FIRST TIME IN QUITE SOME
TIME THAT DEMOCRATIC VOTERS HAVE
TOLD POLLSTERS I WOULD VOTE FOR
SOMEONE WHO I THINK HAS THE BEST
CHANCE TO WIN EVEN IF I DON'T
REALLY AGREE WITH HIM THE MOST
OUT OF ANY OF THE CANDIDATES IN
THE FIELD.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S A
STRATEGIC WAY OF THINKING ABOUT
THE ELECTION, RIGHT?
IT'S A STRATEGIC WAY OF
UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE A
COUNTRY THAT ELECTS ITS
PRESIDENTS NOT BY POPULAR VOTE,
BUT BY ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE.
AND CERTAIN STATES HAVE MORE
POWER IN THAT PROCESS.
CERTAIN STATES LIKE, AGAIN,
WISCONSIN, OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA,
THAT HAVE SPECIFIC POPULATION,
THE DEMOGRAPHICS IN THEIR
POPULATION, RIGHT?
THEY TEND TO BE WHITER,
PARTICULARLY WISCONSIN, FOR
EXAMPLE.
SO PEOPLE ARE KIND OF BOWING TO
THE REALITIES OF, OKAY, THIS IS
WHO'S DECIDING THE ELECTION.
MAYBE WE SHOULD CHOOSE A
CANDIDATE THAT WILL APPEAL TO
THEM.
THEN I THINK YOU HAVE THE OTHER
SIDE OF THE ELECTABILITY THING,
WHICH IS SHOULD WE BE
PERPETUATING THESE KIND OF I
THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE
THAT RACISM AND SEXISM ARE BAD
THINGS IN THE WORLD.
AND SO THE IDEA OF SHOULD WE BE
PERPETUATING THOSE STANDARDS
THAT ONLY CERTAIN CANDIDATES
SHOULD BE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUR
CANDIDATE BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE
APPEALING TO RACIST OR SEXIST
PEOPLE.
THAT'S A REALLY HARD
CONVERSATION TO HAVE.
AND I THINK DEMOCRATIC VOTERS DO
KIND OF FIND THEMSELVES IN A
MORAL BIND, WHICH IS ONE OF THE
REASONS WHY I THINK YOU SEE
PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE JOE BIDEN
WHO ARE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS REALLY
DON'T LIKE JOE BIDEN IN PART
BECAUSE WHAT THEY THINK HE
REPRESENTS ABOUT ELECTABILITY,
BECAUSE THEY THINK PERHAPS HE'S
A CONCESSION TO TRUMP VOTERS,
MOB LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC VOTERS,
MIGHT SEE AS HAVING ENABLED A
RACIST OR SEXIST PRESIDENT.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
CLARE MALONE, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> MALONE HAS A STORY UP ON
538.com TITLED "THE
FRONT-RUNNER QUESTION MARK"
ABOUT JOE BIDEN AND HIS STRENGTH
WITH BLACK VOTERS.
NOW FOR AN UPDATE ON THE 7TH
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT SPECIAL
ELECTION.
>> THE PREVIOUSLY-ANNOUNCED
DATES FOR THAT ELECTION IN THE
DISTRICT IN THE NORTHWESTERN
PART OF WISCONSIN MUST BE
CHANGED BECAUSE FEDERAL LAW
REQUIRES 45 DAYS BETWEEN THE
PRIMARY AND GENERAL TO ALLOW FOR
ABSENTEE VOTES.
U.S. REPRESENTATIVE SEAN DUFFY
HELD THE 7TH UNTIL HE RESIGNED
IN SEPTEMBER DUE TO A FAMILY
MATTER.
THREE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES ARE
NOW VYING FOR THE OPEN SEAT:
STATE SENATOR TOM TIFFANY, ARMY
VETERAN AND FORMER POLITICAL AID
JASON CHURCH AND HOBBY FARMER
MICHAEL OPELA ARE RUNNING FOR
THE SEAT.
>> AS OF TODAY NEW ELECTION
DATES HAVE NOT BEEN RELEASED.
NEXT WEEK, ZAC SCHULTZ REPORTS
ON ONE MILWAUKEE FAMILY'S LONG
AND ONGOING RECOVERY FROM AN ACT
OF GUN VIOLENCE.
HERE'S A PREVIEW OF THAT STORY.
>> WELL, TYRESE STRUGGLED IN
REHAB, HIS MOTHER STRUGGLED AT
HOME WHILE VISITING TYRESE AND
TRYING TO KEEP HER JOB.
>> THAT'S WHAT KEEP ME STRONG,
LIKE THE KIDS.
HE AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.
ALL THE BAD NEWS AND GOOD NEWS,
I'M LIKE I CRY HAPPY TEARS, SAD
TEARS.
>> SHE MOVED OUT OF HER
APARTMENT FEARING MORE VIOLENCE
AND ENDING UP HOMELESS.
>> NOW, HIS TEACHER IS HOPING
THE COMMUNITY STEPS UP TO HELP
THEM.
>> THERE WAS A FUND-RAISER.
>> WHAT I NOTICE IN OUR
COMMUNITY IS WHEN WE RAISE SO
MANY MONEY FOR THE FUNERAL, BUT
THEN WHEN THE CHILDREN DO
SURVIVE, THEY ARE BY THEMSELF.
>> TYRESE SPENT MOST OF HIS
REHAB AN HOUR AWAY FROM
MILWAUKEE, SO HIS MOTHER COULD
ONLY SEE HIM ONCE A WEEK OR WHEN
HE HAD APPOINTMENTS IN THE CITY.
>> STRANGERS WHO HEARD HIS STORY
OFFERED THEIR PRAYERS.
>> WE THANK YOU FOR BRINGING
TYRESE FROM A MIGHTY, MIGHTY
LONG WAYS.
>> LET'S PRAY THAT THEY SURVIVE.
AND THEN WHEN THEY DO SURVIVE,
THEY'RE LEFT BY THEMSELVES.
>> YOU CAN SEE ZAC'S STORY IN
ITS ENTIRETY ON NEXT FRIDAY'S
PROGRAM.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISC