STATE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
VOTED UNANIMOUSLY THIS WEEK TO
APPROVE A NEARLY 100-MILE LONG
HIGH VOLTAGE TRANSMISSION LINE
FROM IOWA THROUGH SOUTHWEST
WISCONSIN.
THE CARDINAL-HICKORY CREEK LINE
WILL START IN DUBUQUE AND HEAD
THROUGH WISCONSIN TO JUST WEST
OF MADISON.
RATE PAYERS IN WISCONSIN WILL
PAY ABOUT $67 MILLION OF THE
$500 MILLION PROJECT.
THE VOTE CAME AMID OPPOSITION
FROM LAND OWNERS IN THE REGION
AND CONSERVATION GROUPS, AS WELL
AS SEVERAL STATE LEGISLATORS
WHOSE DISTRICTS ARE LOCATED
ALONG THE POWER ROUTE.
THE PSC CHAIR, A GOVERNOR TONY
EVERS APPOINTEE, SAID THE
DECISION WAS DIFFICULT, BUT HAS
LONG-TERM VALUE.
>> THIS APPROACH IS NOT ONLY FOR
THE TYPES OF ENERGY TO BE
PRODUCED BUT WHERE THE CLEAN
ENERGY COMES FROM.
WE NEED CLEAN ENERGY RESOURCES
BUILT RIGHT HERE IN WISCONSIN,
BUT WE ALSO NEED ACCESS TO BOTH
RESOURCES FROM OTHER STATES.
THE ONLY WAY TO ACCESS CLEAN
SOURCES OF POWER OUTSIDE OF
WISCONSIN IS WITH TRANSMISSION.
THE RISKS OF NOT BUILDING THIS
LINE AND BEING WRONG ARE JUST
TOO GREAT.
I'M VOTING FOR THE PROJECT TO
ENSURE ENERGY RELIABILITY IN
ORIGIN AND ACCESS TO LOWER COST
CLEAN ENERGY CAN BE ACHIEVED.
>> THE CHAIR'S VIEW THAT NEW
LINES CAN BE A LINK TO CLEAN
ENERGY IS SHARED BY RENEW
WISCONSIN, A NON-PROFIT
ORGANIZATION THAT PROMOTES
RENEWABLE ENERGY IN THE STATE.
TYLER HUEBNER IS THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF RENEW AND HE JOINS
US NOW.
THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
>> SO TELL US WHY YOU AND REVIEW
ARE IN FAVOR OF THIS
HIGH-VOLTAGE LINE.
>> I GO AROUND THE STATE AND
GIVE TALKS ABOUT THE RAPIDLY
CHANGING LANDSCAPE OF RENEWABLE
ENERGY.
AND WE'RE REALLY SEEING THESE
REVOLUTIONS BOTH ON THE
DISTRIBUTED RENEWABLE SIDE,
SOLAR ON ROOFTOPS OF HOMES AND
BUILDINGS, BUT ALSO IN OUR
UTILITIES, AND UTILITY SCALE
RENEWABLES.
WHERE WE'VE SEEN THE COSTS OF
SOLAR COME DOWN ABOUT 88% IN A
DECADE, THE COST OF UTILITY
SCALE WIND COME DOWN 69% IN A
DECADE, AND THERE IS JUST
TREMENDOUS MOMENTUM BEHIND THIS
TRANSITION AWAY FROM COAL AND
TOWARDS CLEAN RENEWABLE ENERGY,
BUT IN WISCONSIN, WE'RE STILL
55% COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS FOR
OWRL ELECTRICITY ASOUR ELECTRICITY AS OF 2017 SO WE
SEE THIS LINE AS A LINK FOR MORE
RENEWABLE DEVELOPMENT NOT ONLY
IN THE MIDWEST BUT ACTUALLY IN
WISCONSIN.
>> SO YOU THINK THAT THIS
TRANSMISSION LINE WILL HELP
WISCONSIN BECOME CARBON-NEUTRAL
BY 2050 AS IS THE DECLARED GOAL
ABOUT THE THE EVERS'
ADMINISTRATION?
>> EXACTLY.
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS HAS JUST
REINSTATED THIS GOAL WITH HIS
EXECUTIVE ORDER LAST WEEK FOR
THE STATE TO BE 100% CARBON-FREE
ELECTRICITY BY 2050.
WE VIEW THIS LINE AS A LINK TO
HELP MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
WE THINK A LOT MORE NEEDS TO
HAPPEN BESIDES THAT, CLEARLY,
AND WE UNDERSTAND THE
COMPLEXITIES OF REACHING THAT
GOAL.
WE THINK DISTRIBUTED ENERGY HAS
A THANK YOU HUMONGOUS ROLE TO PLAY IN
THAT, BUT WE ALSO THINK THE
SCALE OF TRANSITIONING OUR GRID
AWAY FROM COAL AND TO LARGE
SCALE WIND AND LARGE SCALE SOLAR
IS GOING TO REQUIRE AN
INVESTMENT LIKE CARDINAL-HICKORY
CREEK.
>> BUT WILL THE WIND ENERGY FROM
IOWA, MINNESOTA AND THE DAKOTAS
JUST PASS THROUGH THIS WISCONSIN
LINE HEADED FOR OTHER STATES
THAT ARE EAST OF US?
>> NO, WISCONSIN IS -- YOU KNOW,
WE'VE GOT THE MADISON AREA AND
WE'VE CERTAINLY GOT MILWAUKEE.
THOSE AREAS ARE WELL CONNECTED
BY TRANSMISSION TODAY, AND THIS
IS REALLY THE FINAL LINK OF 17
LINES THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE
MIDWEST, AND THIS ENERGY IS
GOING TO COME INTO WISCONSIN.
WE THINK IT'S VERY EXCITING
BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IT'S VERY
LOW COST.
AS I SAID, THE COST OF WIND
POWER HAS COME DOWN ALMOST 70%.
THE WAY THAT THE MIDWEST MARKET
WORKS IS THE LOWEST COST
RESOURCES GET DEPLOYED FIRST.
AND SO THAT WIND IS GOING TO
COME IN FIRST AND THEN MORE
EXPENSIVE STUFF IS GOING TO GET
LAYERED OP TOP OF IT, AND WE
THINK OVER TIME, IT'S ACTUALLY
GOING TO DISPLACE MORE OF OUR
COAL POWERED GENERATION IN THE
STATE.
>> ISN'T THIS TRANSMISSION LINE
ALSO FOR FOSSIL FUEL?
>> WELL, IT IS PART OF THE
ENDIRE MIDWEST GRID, AND SO IT'S
GOING TO -- YOU KNOW, THE POWER
PLANTS THAT ARE ON TODAY ARE
GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE THAT
LINE, THAT'S TRUE, BUT WE ALSO
HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS THAT
FUTURE MIX GOING TO LOOK LIKE
AND HOW DO WE GET THERE, AND IN
OUR VIEW, THIS IS THE TYPE OF
LINE THAT'S GOING TO ALLOW LOWER
COST WIND AND LOWER COST SOLAR
TO ACTUALLY DISPLACE HIGHER
COST, SPECIFICALLY COAL POWER
PLANTS AS TIME GOES ON.
>> NOW I KNOW THAT AMERICAN
TRANSMISSION COMPANY IN THE PSC
SAID THIS LINE WAS NEEDED TO
PROVIDE RELIABILITY IN ENERGY,
AND YET I UNDERSTAND THE OTHER
EXPERTS SAY THAT THERE'S A
SURPLUS OF ELECTRICITY SUPPLY IN
WISCONSIN, AND RELIABILITY ISN'T
AN ISSUE.
WHAT ABOUT THAT?
>> YEAH, SO THIS PROJECT WAS ONE
OF 17 PROJECTS CALLED THE
MULTIVALUE PROJECT PORTFOLIO, OR
MVP PORTFOLIO THROUGHOUT THE
REGION.
ALL 17 OF THOSE WERE STUDIED
TOGETHER, BUT EACH LINE HAD TO
PROVIDE NET POSITIVE BENEFITS TO
THE WHOLE REGION IN TERMS OF
INCREASING RELIABILITY, IN TERMS
OF ALLOWING LOWER COST ENERGY TO
FLOW, AND REDUCING CONGESTION
BETWEEN DIFFERENT AREAS, AND
THIRD, TO HELP US AS OUR STATES,
TO HELP OUR STATES MEET
INCREASING RENEWABLE ENERGY
TARGETS.
NOW THAT WAS BACK IN 2011.
IN THAT TIME WHEN THEY STUDIED
IT ORIGINALLY, THEY PREDICTED BY
2025, WE WOULD HAVE ABOUT 13,000 MEGAWATTS OF WIND IN THE
MIDWEST.
THAT WOULD BE ABOUT 7% OF MISO,
THE INDEPENDENT SYSTEM OPERATORS
ELECTRICITY.
SO THEIR PREDICTION WAS 13,000
BY 2025.
WE'RE ALREADY OVER 16,000 MEGA
WATTS TODAY, WITH ABOUT -- AND
WE WILL SOON, IN 2020, BE AT
ABOUT 24,000 MEGAWATTS.
SO WE'RE GOING TO BE MORE THAN
TWICE THE AMOUNT OF WIND THAT
THEY PREDICTED FOR 2025, WE'RE
GOING TO HIT THAT BY 2020.
THERE'S ANOTHER 20,000 MEGAWATTS
BEYOND THAT, AND THEN THERE'S
ABOUT 20,000 MORE IN EARLIER
STAGES.
SO WE COULD BE, BY 2025, 2030
TIME FRAME, 6 TO 10 TIMES MORE
WIND IN RENEWABLES THAN WHAT
THEY HAD STUDIED PREVIOUSLY.
SO THAT MARKET JUST CHANGING SO
DRAMATICALLY, AND IT'S ACTUALLY
FORCING THE CONVERSATION BACK TO
THE MIDWEST TO THE INDEPENDENT
SYSTEM OPERATOR.
YOU HAVE TO PLAN FASTER BECAUSE
THIS REVOLUTION IS HERE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
TYLER HUEBNER, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> YOU BET.
>> MORE NOW ON THE
CARDINAL-HICKORY CREEK
TRANSMISSION LINE AND ANOTHER
VIEW.
THE DRIFTLESS AREA LAND
CONSERVANCY IS DEDICATED TO THE
PRESERVATION OF THE NATURAL
LANDSCAPE OF SOUTHWEST
WISCONSIN.
THE CONSERVANCY OPPOSES THE NEW
TRANSMISSION LINE AND IS
REPRESENTED BY HOWARD LEARNER,
AN ATTORNEY WITH THE
ENVIRONMENTAL LAW AND POLICY
CENTER OUT OF CHICAGO.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> GOOD TO JOIN YOU.
>> SO I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DO
ANTICIPATE FILING A LAW SUES
OVER THE PSC RULING.
>> THE DRIFTEST AIR LAND
CONSERVANCY AND THE WISCONSIN
FEDERATION WHO SAID THE
COMMISSION GOT IT WRONG IS A
MATTER OF LAW, AS A MATTER OF
FACT AND AS A MATTER OF POLICY,
IF THEY TRY TO DO AN INTERIM
ORDER THAT REFLECTS THE
DISCUSSION EARLIER THIS WEEK.
IF SO, THEY SAID WE'RE GOING TO
APPEAL.
>> ON WHAT SPECIFIC GROUNDS DID
THEY GET IT WRONG?
>> FIRST OF ALL, THE LAW IN
WHICH IS, YOU HAVE TO
DEMONSTRATE THAT THE
TRANSMISSION LINE IS NEEDED FOR
RELIABILITY.
THIS ONE ISN'T.
WISCONSIN HAS A SURPLUS OF
POWER, THE STAFF OF THE
COMMISSION TESTIFIED THAT IT
WASN'T NEEDED, THERE'S EXTENSIVE
EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD.
THE COMMISSION ALSO HAS TO LOOK
AT THE IMPACT ON THE
ENVIRONMENT, AND WHEN IT COMES
TO THE ENVIRONMENT, THIS IS A
HUGE TRANSMISSION LINE WITH 17
STORY HIGH TOWERS GOING THROUGH
THE HEART OF THE DRIFTLESS AREA,
KIND OF A WIDE SWATH RIGHT
THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE
DRIFTLESS AREA.
COMMUNITIES, FARMS, NATURAL
RESOURCES GO THROUGH THE BLACK
EARTH CREEK WATERSHED AS WELL,
AND ON THAT, COMMISSION DIDN'T
GIVE ENOUGH WEIGHT TO IT.
THEY SAID WE THINK THIS LINE
SHOULD GO FORWARD, SO THE
ENVIRONMENTAL PIECE OF IT,
THAT'S JUST GOT TO GO.
AND FINALLY, THIS IS A
TRANSMISSION LINE THAT FACED
UNPRECEDENTED PUBLIC OPPOSITION.
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TURNING OUT
AT PUBLIC HEARINGS, AND THE
LEGISLATORS, BOTH REPUBLICANS
AND DEMOCRATS FROM THE AREA, THE
DANE COUNTY BOARD, THE IOWA
COUNTY BOARD ALL SAYING TO THE
COMMISSION, DON'T DO THIS.
AND THE COMMISSION HAS
DISRESPECTED THE PEOPLE IN
SOUTHWEST WISCONSIN AND THE
PUBLIC OFFICIALS IN SOUTHWEST
WISCONSIN.
>> GIVEN THAT OPPOSITION, WERE
YOU SURPRISED BY THE VOTE?
>> YOU KNOW, I WAS SURPRISED
THAT THE COMMISSION SEEMED TO
KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, THEY
DIDN'T LOOK AT THE TESTIMONY
THAT WAS PUT IN BY THE IPT
VEENERS HERE, THE HEAD OF THE
FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY
COMMISSION DURING THE PRIOR
ADMINISTRATION, THE TOP ENERGY
EXPERTS IN THE COUNTRY, THE HEAD
OF THE WISCONSIN WILDLIFE
FEDERATION, FORMER SECRETARY OF
WISCONSIN DNR.
A WHOLE TEAM OF EXPERTS.
AND INDEED THE COMMISSION
IGNORED AND IN EFFECT REFUTED
ITS OWN STAFF'S TESTIMONY.
WE EXPECTED BETTER FROM THE
COMMISSION.
WE'RE VERY DISAPPOINTED.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT FROM
SUPPORTERS THAT THIS
TRANSMISSION LINE WILL BE A
CORNERSTONE IN THE TRANSITION
FROM FOSSIL FUELS TO A CLEAN
ENERGY GRID?
>> WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO GO TO THE
TESTIMONY IN THE RECORD.
THAT SOUNDS NICE, BUT MARY NEIL,
WHO IS THE EXPERT WITNESS FOR
THE CITIZENS UTILITY BOARD
EXPLAINED THIS TRANSITION LINE
IS GOING TO CARRY TO SIEL FUEL
AND AS MUCH IF NOT MORE SO THAN
WIND.
SO THIS IS NOT ONLY A WIND-ONLY
LINE, THERE'S NOBODY WHO CAN
SERIOUSLY MAKE THAT CASE.
THIS LINE ACCORDING TO THE
UTILITY BOARD TESTIMONY AND
OTHER TESTIMONY IN THE RECORD IS
GOING TO CARRY FOSSIL.
SO IT'S NOT A LINE THAT SOLVES
THOSE PROBLEMS, AND THERE ARE
BETTER WAYS TO DEVELOP THE CLEAN
ENERGY ECONOMY IN WISCONSIN.
>> WHAT SHOULD WISCONSIN BE
DOING TO GET TO CARBON NEUTRAL
IN IS
>> HERE'S WHAT WISCONSIN COULD
BE DOING THAT WOULD BE MUCH
BETTER.
AND IT WOULD AVOID THAT SORT OF
IMPACT ON THE DRIFTLESS AREA.
TERRIBLE DAMAGE THIS WILL
CREATE.
FIRST OF ALL, CONTINUED
AGGRESSIVELY RENEWABLE ENERGY.
THERE'S 4500 WATTS OF SOLAR
ENERGY IN WISCONSIN, MORE THAN
ANY OTHER STATE IN THE MIDWEST.
THAT'S REALLY BIG TIME PROGRESS
AND THERE'S SOME WIND PROJECTS
THAT ARE GOING FORWARD TOO.
SECONDLY, WE NEED TO BE MUCH
SMARTER ON ENERGY EFFICIENCY.
ENERGY EFFICIENCY SAVES
CONSUMERS, SAVES BUSINESSES
MONEY, BEST, THE FASTEST, THE
CHEAPEST SOLUTION TO OUR CLIMATE
CHANGE PROBLEMS.
AND FINALLY, AS THE STAFF AND
NUMBER OF THE PROBLEMS TALKED ,
THERE'S SOME EXISTING
TRANSMISSION LINES THAT ARE OLD
AND NOT AS EFFICIENT AS THEY MAY
HAVE BEEN.
UPGRADE THEM, MAKE THEM BETTER.
USE THE SWORD OF MODERN THAT ARE
MORE EFFICIENT, DELIVER MORE
BANG FOR THE BUCK.
WHEN ALL SAID AND DONE HERE,
THERE ARE MUCH BETTER
ALTERNATIVES, MUCH BETTER WAYS
TO MEET WISCONSIN'S ENERGY
NEEDS.
WE'RE HERE JUST BEING A
PASSTHROUGH FOR SOMEBODY WHO
WANTS TO SELL FROM POWER FROM
OUT WEST TO SOMEWHERE OUT EAST.
>> SO IN TERMS OF THE LINE,
LET'S SAY THE PSC RULING STICKS
AND WE'VE GOT THIS ROUTE.
WOULD YOU EXPECT TO CHALLENGE
THE ROUTE BECAUSE OF THE CONCERN
ABOUT IT CUTTING THROUGH THE
DRIFTLESS AREA?
>> THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT THE
ROUTE AND CONCERNS ABOUT THE
NEED AND AS I SAID, THERE'S AN
UNPRECEDENTED NUMBER OF
INTERVENERS WHO HAVE BEEN IN
THIS CASE, SO DIFFERENT PARTIES
MAY CHALLENGE IT ON A DIFFERENT
BASIS.
WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DOB, THIS
ISDONE, THISIS LIKE A HUGELY EXPENSIVE
INVESTMENT IN LANDLINE TELEPHONE
WIRES AND POLES WHEN CELLULAR
TECHNOLOGY IS READY TO MOVE
FORWARD RAPIDLY, WE CAN DO
BETTER HERE.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT HERE.