IN TEXAS AND OHIO, WISCONSIN
LEADERS ARE EXPECTED TO MEET TO
TALK ABOUT WHAT CAN BE DONE.
IN TONIGHT'S FIRST LOOK,
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS IS PUSHING
FOR UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS
AND WHAT'S KNOWN AS A RED FLAG
LAW.
THESE ARE MEASURES SPEAKER ROBIN
VOS AND SENATE MAJORITY LEADER
SCOTT FITZGERALD HAVE OPPOSED.
BUT THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATIVE
LEADERS HAVE AGREED TO TALK NEXT
WEEK.
WISCONSIN ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH
KAUL SUPPORTS BOTH MEASURES.
HE JOINS US NOW.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
YOU HAVE SAID WHENEVER MASS
SHOOTINGS HAPPEN THERE ARE CALLS
FOR ACTION.
WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME
IN TERMS OF PUTTING IN PLACE
THESE GUN CONTROL MEASURES?
>> I THINK WE'VE REALLY SEEN A
SHIFT WHEN IT COMES TO THE
RESPONSE FROM STATES AND FROM
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AFTER
SOME OF THESE SHOOTINGS.
WE SAW THAT IN THE WAKE OF THE
TRAGEDY AT PARKLAND.
AND I THINK WE ARE AGAIN SEEING
REAL ACTION AND REAL MOVEMENT.
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS COME OUT IN
SUPPORT OF A RED FLAG LAW AND IS
TALKING ABOUT BACKGROUND CHECKS.
THE GOVERNOR OF OHIO HAS
SUPPORTED MEASURES LIKE THAT.
I'M HOPING WE CAN SEE PROGRESS
HERE IN WISCONSIN NOW BECAUSE WE
HAVE HAD JUST FAR TOO MANY OF
THESE TRAGEDIES AND I THINK WE
NEED TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO
MAKE CHANGE THAT'S GOING TO HELP
KEEP PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN SAFER.
I DON'T WANT TO BE HAVING THIS
CONVERSATION AGAIN AFTER ANOTHER
TRAGEDY HERE IN WISCONSIN.
>> UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS
ARE WHAT MOST PEOPLE MOST OFTEN
TALK ABOUT IN THE WAKE OF THESE
KINDS OF MASS SHOOTINGS.
WHAT IN YOUR MIND SHOULD SUCH
CONVERSATION ENTAIL?
>> I THINK EVERYBODY PCH PURCHASING
A FIREARM SHOULD GO THROUGH A
BACKGROUND CHECK PROCESS TO MAKE
SURE THAT THE PERSON WHO IS
TRYING TO BUY THE FIREARM ISN'T
PROHIBITED FROM DOING SO.
SOME FIREARM PURCHASES TAKE
PLACE WITHOUT THAT KIND OF
CHECK.
I THINK IF SOMEBODY HAS
COMMITTED A A FELONY, THERE SHOULD
BE NO LOOPHOLE SO THEY ARE
PREVENTED FROM BUYING A GUN.
>> ANOTHER MEASURE BEING
DISCUSSED AS WE'VE DISCUSSED IS
THIS RED FLAG LAW.
NOW, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?
>> SO THERE ARE I BELIEVE 17
STATES RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE
SO-CALLED RED FLAG LAWS AND THE
BASIC CONCEPT IS IF SOMEBODY HAS
BEEN SHOWN TO A JUDGE TO BE A
DANGER TO THEMSELVES OR TO
OTHERS AND THERE'S A LIMIT IN
WHO CAN MAKE THAT SHOWING.
IT'S USUALLY LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
A FAMILY MEMBER.
THE JUDGE WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY
TO ISSUE AN ORDER THAT
TEMPORARILY REMOVES FIREARMS
FROM THAT PERSON.
IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS
GOING THROUGH A MENTAL HEALTH
CRISIS OR SOMEBODY WHO HAS
THREATENED TO COMMIT ONE OF
THESE HORRIBLE MASS SHOOTINGS,
THIS GIVES A TOOL TO LAW
ENFORCEMENT OR TO THE PEOPLE WHO
KNOW THAT PERSON BEST, THEIR
FAMILY MEMBERS, TO TRY AND GET
AN ORDER TO PREVENT A TRAGEDY
FROM HAPPENING.
AND A LOT OF THESE LAWS WERE
ADOPTED FAIRLY RECENTLY.
BUT CONNECTICUT'S LAW HAS BEEN
IN PLACE FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS.
THE STUDIES OF THAT LAW INDICATE
THAT IT HAS REDUCED THE SUICIDE
RATE THERE.
SO I THINK THAT THIS LAW WOULD
MAKE OUR COMMUNITY SAFER AND I
THINK IT'S ONE WE SHOULD MOVE
FORWARD WITH.
>> HERE'S WHAT SPEAKER ROBIN VOS
TWEETED ABOUT RED FLAG LAWS.
I WILL NOT ENTERTAIN PROPOSALS
TO TAKE AWAY SECOND AMENDMENT
RIGHTS.
HOPEFULLY WE CAN FIND COMMON
GROUND ON THE REAL PROBLEM BY
ADDRESSING THE MENTAL HEALTH
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN.
THERE'S A LOT OF CONTROVERSY
AROUND THIS IDEA THAT PEOPLE
THINK THIS WOULD JUST MEAN THAT
PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO
EXERCISE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL
RIGHTS TO HAVE GUNS.
>> THAT'S JUST WRONG.
THERE'S BROAD PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR
RED FLAG LAWS AND UNIVERSAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS BECAUSE
THEY'RE COMMON SENSE.
THEY'RE ABOUT PREVENTING PEOPLE
WHO ARE A DANGER TO THEMSELVES
OR OTHERS FROM HAVING ACCESS TO
A FIREARM THAT CAN BE USED FOR
GUN VIOLENCE.
AND THESE LAWS ARE IN PLACE AS I
SAID IN 17 STATES.
THERE'S NOT A SINGLE STATE WHERE
THESE LAWS HAVE FOUND TO BE A
VIOLATION OF DUE PROCESS OR
SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
I DON'T THINK THE SPEAKER WOULD
SUGGEST THAT DONALD TRUMP IS
TRYING TO VIOLATE PEOPLE'S
SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO MENTAL
HEALTH, THERE ARE A FEW THINGS I
WOULD SAY.
FIRST, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF
PEOPLE WHO FACE MENTAL HEALTH
ISSUES AND I THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT THAT WE NOT STIGMATIZE
THOSE PEOPLE.
THEY'RE NO MORE LIKELY TO BE A
DANGER THAN ANYBODY ELSE.
BUT IF YOU DO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO
IS GOING THROUGH A CRISIS,
THAT'S WHY WE NEED THIS METHOD
FOR INTERVENING.
WE CAN EXPAND MEDICAID IN
WISCONSIN SO MORE PEOPLE HAVE
ACCESS TO MENTAL HEALTH
TREATMENT.
>> YOU HAVE SAID THAT YOU
BELIEVE THAT RED FLAG LAW WOULD
HAVE TO BE CAREFULLY TARGETED.
HOW SO?
>> WELL, I THINK YOU WANT TO
MAKE IT FIRST OF ALL SO THAT A
LIMITED GROUP OF PEOPLE CAN
REPORT TO GET THAT SORT OF ORDER
IN PLACE, WHICH IS WHY I THINK
YOU LIMIT IT TO FAMILY MEMBERS
OR LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO CAN SEE
THOSE SIGNS OF CONCERN, THOSE
RED FLAGS.
AND THEN SECONDLY YOU WANT IT TO
BE A TEMPORARY ORDER SO THAT THE
PERSON WHO'S NOT ABLE TO HAVE A
FIREARM IS ABLE TO CHALLENGE IT.
THAT'S WHERE THOSE DUE PROCESS
PROTECTIONS ARE AND THAT'S WHY
THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH SECOND
AMENDMENT RIGHTS.
>> THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> A CLOSER LOOK NOW AT THE GUN
DEBATE AND FOR THAT WE GO TO
MILWAUKEE.
THAT'S WHERE WISCONSIN CARRY IS
BASED, A NONPROFIT THAT EDUCATES
AND LOBBIES FOR SECOND AMENDMENT
RIGHTS.
NIK CLARK IS PRESIDENT OF
WISCONSIN CARRY.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO
RADIORENEWED CALLS FOR UNIVERSAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS?
>> UNFORTUNATELY EVERY TIME
THERE'S A SITUATION IN THE NEWS
WITH THE MASS SHOOTINGS, THESE
PROPOSALS KEEP GETTING
REGURGITATED.
SO I THINK IT SHOULD BE CLEAR TO
PEOPLE THAT IT'S POA POLITICALLY
MOTIVATED.
THE GENTLEMAN IN EL PASO PASSED
A BACKGROUND CHECK.
THIS WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN
ADDRESSED THE SITUATION THAT'S
PROMPTING THE COVERAGE IN THE
NEWS.
PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT
THIS IS MORE ABOUT A POLITICAL
POSTURING THAN IT IS ABOUT
SOLVING A PROBLEM.
>> I WANT TO GET TO THAT IN A
MINUTE, BUT WHY IN YOUR MIND
WOULD A UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND
CHECK BE ONEROUS?
>> SO THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS.
UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK SOUND
GREAT AND OF COURSE MOST PEOPLE
WHEN THEY PURCHASE THEIR FIRE
REMEMBER A, THEY GO TO A RETAIL
STORE, THEY'RE PASSING A
BACKGROUND CHECK.
IF YOU GO TO A GUN SHOW AND
SOMEONE IS SELLING GUNS FOR A
LIVING, YOU HAVE TO PASS A
BACKGROUND CHECK.
THERE'S A PRIVATE PARTY
EXCEPTION.
IF I WANT TO BUY FROM A
GRANDFATHER, BROTHER OR FRIEND,
WE DON'T HAVE TO TRANSACT THAT.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A
UNIVERSAL GUN REGISTRY.
HOW ELSE WOULD YOU KNOW THAT
EVERY PERSON PASSED A BACKGROUND
CHECK IN ORDER TO PURCHASE THAT
GUN?
SO THAT'S WHY A UNIVERSAL
BACKGROUND CHECK WOULD DO TWO
THINGS.
IT WOULD NECESSITATE A COST
BECAUSE NO ONE'S GOING TO RUN
THAT CHECK FOR FREE.
SO EVEN AMONGST FRIENDS, YOU'D
HAVE TO THEN INCUR A COST.
AND THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE
UNIVERSAL GUN REGISTRY WHICH A
LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE A GREAT ISSUE
WITH.
>> WHY?
>> BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY THERE'S
A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T TRUST
THE GOVERNMENT.
EVEN WISCONSIN'S FORMER ATTORNEY
GENERAL SAID HIMSELF THAT HE WAS
PART OF GOVERNMENT.
HE DIDN'T EVEN WANT THE
GOVERNMENT TO KNOW WHICH GUNS
HE'S HAD.
IN CALIFORNIA THEY PASSED A LAW
REQUIRING CERTAIN GUNS TO BE
REGISTERED.
A FEW YEARS LATER THEYS PASSED A
LAW TO OUT LAW THOSE GUNS AND
THEN THEY HAD A LIST OF PEOPLE
THAT HAD THOSE GUNS.
THE CLICHE IS THAT REGISTRATION
LEADS TO CONFISCATION AND THAT
WAS TRUE IN CALIFORNIA AND WE
WORRY ABOUT THAT IN OTHER
PLACES.
SO WHY SHOULD WE BURDEN MILLIONS
OF LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS FOR
SOMETHING A FEW LOON PARTICULARS -- LUNATICS
ARE DOING IN THESE MASS
SHOOTINGS.
IF THE GUN IN PARKLAND OR
EL PASO HAD BEEN REGISTERED, IT
WOULD STILL SHOOT PEOPLE.
>> NOW PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SAYING
HE WANTS INTELLIGENT BACKGROUND
CHECKS AND HE HAS SPOKEN WITH
SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH
MCCONNELL WHO SAYS HE'S TOTALLY
ONBOARD.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
>> I'M SCARED BY INTELLIGENT
BACKGROUND CHECKS.
I'VE HEARD HIM TALK ABOUT
WANTING SOCIAL MEDIA TO BE
INVOLVED.
IF THE THOUGHT IS WE'RE GOING TO
GO THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA AND TRY
TO CREATE AN ALGORITHM AND TRY
TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO ARE HIGH
PRIORITIES FOR BEING A MASS
SHOOTER THAT'S SOME PRETTY
ORWELLIAN STUFF.
THAT MAKES PEOPLE'S SKIN CRAWL
THINKING THAT THEY'D HAVE TO
WORRY THAT SOMETHING THEY PUT ON
FACEBOOK, AGAIN, THAT FOR THEM
IS INNOCUOUS WOULD SOMEHOW FLAG
THEM TO BE A POTENTIAL MASS
SHOOTER.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE THOUGHT
POLICE TO ME.
I KNOW HOW BACKGROUND CHECKS
WORK RIGHT NOW AND I CAN'T THINK
OF HOW THEY WANT TO HAVE MORE
INTELLIGENT BACKGROUND CHECKS
UNLESS THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO
DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
PRESIDENT TRUMP THINKS THAT
SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE PART OF THIS
FLAGGING OF POTENTIAL MASS
SHOOTERS.
THAT WOULD BE IN INFRINGING ON
CIVIL LIBERTIES.
>> WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF RED
FLAG LAWS?
>> RED FLAG LAWS WOULD BE AN
EXACT REVERSAL OF CONSTITUTIONAL
PRINCIPLES IN THIS COUNTRY.
WE'VE GOT INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN
GUILTY, THE RIGHT TO PRIVATE
PROPERTY AND THOSE CAN'T BE
TAKEN FROM YOU WITHOUT DUE
PROCESS.
NOW, THE RED FLAG LAWS FLIP
THOSE AROUND AND BASICALLY SAY
WE CAN COME TAKE YOUR PROPERTY
FIRST AND THEN YOU CAN GO GET A
COURT HEARING DOWN THE ROAD,
SOME SAY TWO WEEKS AND WE DON'T
HAVE A SPECIFIC PROPOSAL HERE IN
WISCONSIN AND IT VARIES BY
STATE.
BUT THAT'S TROUBLING AS WELL.
I THINK THAT ALL OF THE -- ALL
OF THE INCIDENTS THAT WE'VE HAD
SO FAR, THESE INDIVIDUALS
COMMITTED CRIMES.
THEY COULD HAVE BEEN IN JAIL,
BUT PEOPLE WERE LENIENT ON THEM.
HERE IN MILWAUKEE WE'VE GOT A
MASSIVE CRIME PROBLEM AND
VIRTUALLY ALL THE PEOPLE
COMMITTING CRIMES ALREADY HAVE A
CRIMINAL BACKGROUND AND ARE
ALLOWED TO OWN FIREARMS.
WHEN WE SEE THE VAST MAJORITY OF
CRIMES BEING COMMITTED BY PEOPLE
WHO AREN'T ALLOWED TO OWN GUNS,
WHY ARE WE FOCUSING ON ANOTHER
SEGMENT OF SOCIETY.
DO WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO
SOMEONE, LOOK, I'M WORRIED ABOUT
TALKING TO MY COUNSELOR OR
PSYCHOLOGIST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS
GOING TO RED FLAG ME?
DO WE WANT TO GIVE LOCAL POLICE POLICE
DEPARTMENTS ALL ACROSS THE STATE
THE RIGHT, THE GOVERNMENT THE
RIGHT TO JUST COME AND TAKE YOUR
GUNS?
THAT'S A REVERSAL OF CIVIL
LIBERTIES.
I THINK IF PRESIDENT TRUMP
PUSHES SOMETHING NATIONALLY, HE
GOT AWAY WITH THE BUMP STOCK
BAN.
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE WILL TURN
THE OTHER CHEEK IF THEY HAVE
SOMETHING LIKE A RED FLAG LAW
THAT STARTS TO INFRINGE.
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE IS
SOMEONE'S GETTING DIVORCED,
THEIR SPOUSE IS GOING TO RED
FLAG THE OTHER ONE.
THAT'S HOW THESE THINGS ALWAYS
WORK OUT.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE,
BUT THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THE