>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THE
STATE SUPREME COURT NULLIFIES
"SAFER AT HOME" AND WISCONSIN
COUNTIES RUSH TO REACT.
WHERE IS WISCONSIN HEADED?
WE GET ANSWERS IN OUR WEEKLY
ONE-ON-ONE ON GOVERNOR TONY
EVERS AND ALSO REPUBLICAN STATE
REPRESENTATIVE JIM STEINEKE.
PLUS, A CHECK-IN WITH DR. NASIA
SAFDAR AT THE UW DIVISION OF
INFECTIOUS DISEASE.
AND WE SHARE THE STORY OF A
COVID-19 SURVIVOR
FROM CRAWFORD COUNTY.
IT'S "HERE & NOW" FOR MAY 15.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
? ?
>> THIS WEEK, ON MAJOR SHIFT IN
WISCONSIN'S FIGHT AGAINST THE
CORONAVIRUS AS THE EXTENDED
"SAFER AT HOME" ORDER IS RULED
ILLEGAL.
REPUBLICANS SUED OVER WHETHER
HEALTH SERVICES
SECRETARY-DESIGNEE ANDREA PALM
EXCEEDED HER AUTHORITY AND
VIOLATED STATE LAW BY ORDERING
AN EMERGENCY EXTENSION UNTIL
MAY 26.
FOR THE SECOND TIME IN AS MANY
MONTHS, THE CONSERVATIVE
MAJORITY WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT
HAS DEALT GOVERNOR EVERS AND
DEMOCRATS A DEFEAT.
BUSINESSES ACROSS THE STATE ARE
SWINGING OPEN THEIR DOORS, SOME
WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS.
"HERE AND NOW" SENIOR POLITICAL
REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ IS HERE TO
EXPLAIN THE FALLOUT OF THAT
DECISION.
AND, ZAC, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR
BEING HERE.
>> MY PLEASURE, FRED.
>> SO THE IMMEDIATE RESULTS OF
THE SUPREME COURT'S RULING WAS
THAT EVERYTHING WAS ALLOWED TO
REOPEN AND ALL AT ONCE AND RIGHT
AWAY.
BUT WHILE WAITING FOR THESE NEW
RULES, IT'S KIND OF EVERY COUNTY
FOR ITSELF?
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
THE DHS AUTHORITY TO EXTEND THE
"SAFER AT HOME" ORDER IS GONE.
THE ONLY PORTION OF THAT ORDER
THAT SURVIVED THE COURT'S RULING
WAS HER ABILITY TO CUT DOWN
SCHOOLS.
THAT SURVIVED IN A FOOTNOTE.
NOW IT'S UP TO INDIVIDUAL
COUNTIES.
THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT PART OF
THE STATE STATUTES THAT AFFECT
THEIR AUTHORITY.
WE'VE ALREADY SEEN FIVE OR SIX
COUNTIES EXTEND SOME OF THOSE
RULES.
>> AS TO NEW STATE
ADMINISTRATIVE RULES, IT'S THIS
PROCESS.
BUT IT BASICALLY FORCES THE
EVERS' ADMINISTRATION TO WORK
WITH THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE
LEADERS.
HOW, IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING, ARE
THOSE NEW RULES EXPECTED TO
LOOK?
>> WELL, THEY WON'T LOOK
ANYTHING LIKE THE "SAFER AT
HOME" ORDER THAT WE WERE UNDER.
REPUBLICANS HAVE MADE IT VERY
CLEAR THEY'RE HAPPY TO SEE THOSE
ORDERS GONE.
A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, THEY WERE
ASKING FOR A REGIONAL APPROACH
TO REOPENING PARTS OF THE STATE
THAT HADN'T SEEN IT.
NOW THEY'RE SAYING EVERYTHING
WIDE OPEN IS PERFECT.
THEY EXPECT BUSINESSES TO COMPLY
WITH RULES ON HOW BEST TO BE
SAFE AND IT'S UP TO INDIVIDUALS
AND BUSINESSES TO DO THE BEST
THING TO KEEP THEMSELVES AND
THEIR FAMILIES SAFE.
THE GOVERNOR ISSUED A SCOPE
STATEMENT.
IT'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST TEN
DAYS BEFORE WE SEE THE LANGUAGE
ON A RULE.
THEY'LL HAVE TIME TO NEGOTIATE
IT, BUT IT WILL HAVE TO BE VERY
BROAD BECAUSE IT WON'T BE NIMBLE
ENOUGH TO HANDLE A HOT SPOT OR
FLARE-UP THAT MAY OCCUR.
>> SUPER QUICKLY, WHAT STOOD OUT
TO YOU ABOUT THAT SUPREME COURT
RULING?
>> IT WAS A 4-3 DECISION.
THE COURT IS 5-2 CONSERVATIVES
TO LIBERALS AND BRIAN HAGEDORN
DISSENTED AS WELL.
DANIEL KELLY WILL BE LEAVING THE
COURT IN JULY.
HE WAS A DECIDING VOTE.
THE NEW JUSTICE COMING IN COULD
SIDE WITH THE LIBERALS.
IF THERE'S A FLARE-UP, WE COULD
SEE DHS SEE WHERE THE BOUNDARIES
WERE IN THE POWER.
WE DON'T DEFINE THE SCOPE OF HER
AUTHORITY.
THIS MAY COME BACK UNDER A NEW
COURT THIS WINTER.
>> ZAC SCHULTZ, THANKS VERY MUCH
AND THANK YOU FOR COVERING IT.
>> THANK YOU.
>> MANY PLACES ARE BACK TO
BUSINESS AS USUAL WITHOUT
RESTRICTIONS.
THE STATE SUPREME COURT DECISION
COMES TWO DAYS AFTER A NEW
DIRECTIVE FROM GOVERNOR TONY
EVERS TO TURN THE DIAL TO OPEN
WISCONSIN A BIT MORE.
UNDER THAT NEW ORDER EARLIER IN
THE WEEK, SMALL RETAIL
BUSINESSES COULD REOPEN WITH
RESTRICTIONS.
THE ORDER ALLOWED CUSTOMERS TO
VISIT PLACES LIKE STRIP MALLS
WITH DOORS THAT ENTER AND EXIT
DIRECTLY TO THE OUTSIDE,
ALLOWING FOR NO MORE THAN FIVE
PATRONS INSIDE AT ONE TIME.
A PATCHWORK OF COUNTIES AND
CITIES ACROSS THE STATE ARE
KEEPING THE "SAFER AT HOME"
GUIDELINES IN PLACE WHILE OTHERS
HAVE FULLY REOPENED.
WE TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK'S
DEVELOPMENT IN OUR WEEKLY
ONE-ON-ONE WITH TONY EVERS, WHO
JOINED US EARLIER.
AND, GOVERNOR, THANKS VERY MUCH
FOR DOING SO.
>> THANKS, FREDERICA.
>> WE LED INTO THIS TALKING
ABOUT HOW YOUR PHASED-IN
APPROACH WAS STARTING THIS WEEK,
WHEN THE SUPREME COURT SHELVED
YOUR PLAN.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE, FIRST, WHEN
YOU LEARNED OF THE DECISION, AND
THEN WHEN YOU READ IT?
>> WELL, IT WAS DISAPPOINTING,
YOU KNOW.
I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT FACTS AND
THE STATE STATUTES AND
PRECEDENCE MATTERED.
IT CERTAINLY DIDN'T IN THIS
CASE.
IT WAS JUST A WRONG-HEADED
DECISION.
AND SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE
IMPACT HAS BEEN IMMEDIATE.
THERE IS -- ESSENTIALLY THEY
FOUND IT TO BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL,
AND SO WE'VE MOVED INTO THE NEW
WORLD OF HAVING NO RULE OF THE
ROAD.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN
YOU SAW PEOPLE PORING INTO BARS
IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE
DECISION?
>> I KNOW NOT ALL BARS AND ALL
BUSINESSES ARE THAT WAY, BUT
CERTAINLY TO HAVE THE TAVERN
LEAGUE GET OUT IN FRONT OF THIS
AND THEN HAVING MANY TOO PEOPLE
TOGETHER IN A SMALL PLACE,
SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, NO MASKS,
IT'S INVITING THE VIRUS TO WALK
ON IN AND BE TRANSMITTED.
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.
>> IN THE FACE OF THAT, SEVERAL
LOCAL OR COUNTY HEALTH
DEPARTMENTS IMPOSED THEIR OWN
SAFETY ORDERS IN PLACE OF THE
STATEWIDE PLAN.
BUT NOW SOME ARE STARTING TO
RESCIND THEM, WORRIED ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT IN FACT THEY'RE
LEGAL BECAUSE OF THAT COURT
RULING.
WHAT IN YOUR MIND DOES THIS SAY
ABOUT THIS LOCAL APPROACH?
>> WELL, THAT'S JUST IT.
IT CREATES GREAT CONFUSION,
FIRST OF ALL, AND -- DEPENDING
ON THE COUNTY YOU LIVE IN, AND
SO THAT'S THE MAIN CONCERN.
SOME OF THEM MAY WALK THEM BACK.
SOME OF THEM WON'T.
I THINK IT'S LESS AROUND -- LESS
AROUND THE LEGALITY OF IT.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S A
DIFFERENT SECTION OF THE LAW.
SO I THINK THEY HAVE THE ABILITY
TO DO IT.
BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH THEIR
NEIGHBORS, AND I GUESS THAT'S A
RATIONAL THING TO DO.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY,
HAVING THIS BEING DONE LOCALLY
CREATES A LOT OF CONFUSION AND,
FRANKLY, I THINK IT DOESN'T DO
MUCH FOR PEOPLE'S CONFIDENCE.
>> YOU'RE NOW MEETING WITH
SPEAKER VOS, MAJORITY LEADER
FITZGERALD TO WORK UP
ADMINISTRATIVE RULES TO MANAGE
THE PANDEMIC, AND YOUR
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WROTE A
SCOPE STATEMENT OUTLINING THOSE
RULES.
I READ THEM.
THEY LOOK VERY MUCH LIKE "SAFER
AT HOME" AND BADGER BOUNCE BACK
UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME.
WHY DO YOU THINK THOSE ARE GOING
TO FLY?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, A SCOPE
STATEMENT IS A VERY BROAD
STATEMENT OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO
BE LOOKING AT.
AND, AS YOU SEE, THERE'S LOTS OF
"MAYS" IN THAT STATEMENT.
AND SO, YES, IT GIVES US A
PARAMETER.
WHAT MATTERS IS THE RULE ITSELF.
BUT ALSO, FREDERICA, TO BE
HONEST WITH YOU, THIS ISN'T
GOING TO BE ANY GRAND BARGAIN
AMONG THE DEMOCRATS AND THE
REPUBLICANS BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY
WE WERE TOLD BY THE LEADERSHIP
THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO
ACCEPT ANYTHING THAT CREATES ANY
NEW RESTRICTIONS OR NEW
PARAMETERS AROUND WHAT'S
HAPPENING NOW.
IN FACT, THEY WERE VERY HAPPY
WITH WHAT EXISTS.
>> IN FACT, SHE'S THE CO-CHAIR
OF THE RULES COMMITTEE THAT MUST
VOTE ON AND CAN VETO ANY RULES.
SENATOR NASS SAID I CALL ON
GOVERNOR EVERS TO END THE SCOPE
STATEMENT AND END THIS NEEDLESS
CONFRONTATION.
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
>> I'D SAY WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE
THE RULE.
THIS IS A SCOPE STATEMENT,
SENATOR NASS.
THIS ISN'T THE RULE.
THIS ISN'T SOME SORT OF PANACEA.
WE'VE ALREADY TOLD BY THE
LEADERSHIP WHAT'S GOING TO COME
OUT OF THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE
ANY KIND OF IMPINGEMENT ON WHAT
HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.
IN FACT, THEY'RE VERY HAPPY
ABOUT THAT.
YOU KNOW, SHORTLY AFTER THE TURN
OF THE MONTH, MAY 1 OR 2, GET A
LEADER FROM SPEAKER VOS SAYING
THEY ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO
SLOW, DELIBERATE, THOUGHTFUL WAY
OF OPENING THE ECONOMY, JUST
LIKE WE ARE.
BUT INTERVENING HAS BEEN THIS
SUPREME COURT RACE -- OR NOT
RACE, BUT THE DECISION.
SO IT IS WHAT IT IS.
IT EXISTS, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE
-- WE'RE HOPEFUL PEOPLE WILL
STILL STAY HOME AND DO THE TESTS
AND TRACINGS AND ALL THE THINGS
THAT ARE IMPORTANT.
>> GOVERNOR TONY EVERS, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
WE WILL BE WATCHING THESE
DEVELOPMENTS.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, FREDERICA.
>> REPUBLICANS HAD BEEN PUBLICLY
PUSHING TO RELAX THE STRICT
"SAFER AT HOME" ORDER AT THE
SAME TIME THEY CHALLENGED IT IN
THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT.
NOW WITH LEGAL BACKING, THE BALL
IS IN THEIR COURT TO ACT.
WISCONSIN ASSEMBLY MAJORITY
LEADER JIM STEINEKE WAS ABLE TO
JOIN US EARLY THIS AFTERNOON.
AND, REPRESENTATIVE, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH AGAIN FOR BEING HERE.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> WELL, SO, AS WE ALL KNOW,
WISCONSIN IS REOPEN FOR
BUSINESS.
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE
COURT'S RULING?
>> WELL, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT
WE GOT TO THIS PLACE.
WE'VE BEEN TRYING OVER THE LAST
FEW WEEKS TO ENGAGE WITH THE
ADMINISTRATION TO SEE IF WE CAN
COME UP WITH A BIPARTISAN PLAN
THAT EVERYBODY CAN SUPPORT.
AS LATE AS 10 OR 12 DAYS AGO
NOW, WE MET WITH GOVERNOR EVERS
TO DISCUSS THOSE THINGS WHILE
THE COURT CASE WAS GOING ON TO
TRY TO SEE IF THERE WAS SOME
COMMON GROUND, ASKED FOR
ADDITIONAL MEETINGS BEYOND THAT
DAY, AND HE SAID HE DIDN'T WANT
TO TALK UNTIL AFTER THE SUPREME
COURT DECISION CAME DOWN, WHICH
WAS HIS RIGHT.
BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE'RE
HERE WHERE WE ARE TODAY WITHOUT
ANYTHING SUCCEEDING THAT
ORIGINAL 60-DAY AUTHORITY.
>> HE HAS DISPUTED THAT IT WAS
HE WHO SAID HE WANTED TO WAIT,
BUT LET'S MOVE ALONG, BECAUSE
THIS IS WHERE WE ARE NOW, AND I
KNOW THAT LEADERSHIP MET WITH
THE GOVERNOR THIS WEEK TO TALK
ABOUT NEW RULES.
GOING FORWARD, AT THIS MOMENT, I
SUSPECT THAT YOU WANT TO WORK
WITH THE GOVERNOR TO FASHION
THESE RULES.
>> YEAH.
AGAIN, WE MET THIS WEEK WITH THE
GOVERNOR, HAD SOME INITIAL
DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT OUR
PRIORITIES WERE, WHAT HIS WERE
IN ANY NEW RULE.
HE TOOK SOME INPUT.
HE'S -- OBVIOUSLY, HE PUT OUT A
SCOPE STATEMENT FOR THE NEW RULE
AND NOW THAT IS OPEN FOR PUBLIC
COMMENT FOR TEN DAYS, AND THEN
THEY'LL COME BACK TO US WITH
WHATEVER THEIR PROPOSED RULE IS,
HOPEFULLY TAKING INTO ACCOUNT
EVERYBODY'S INPUT.
>> THE SCOPE STATEMENT LOOKS
VERY SIMILAR TO THE "SAFER AT
HOME" AND THE BADGER BOUNCE BACK
PLAN.
DO YOU SUPPORT WHAT'S IN THAT
DOCUMENT?
>> PARTS.
I MEAN, I THINK WHAT WE'RE
SEEING NOW IS THE VAST MAJORITY
OF THE COUNTRY IS STARTING TO
REOPEN.
WE WERE ONE OF ONLY A HANDFUL OF
STATES THAT HADN'T STARTED TO
REOPEN YET.
AND ONE OF OUR FRUSTRATIONS WITH
WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED
IN HIS ORIGINAL "SAFER AT HOME"
PACKAGE WAS A STATEWIDE ORDER,
WITH NO ACCOUNTING FOR REGIONAL
DIFFERENCES.
AND WHAT WE SEE IN A VAST
MAJORITY OF COUNTIES IN THE
STATE IS VERY FEW CASES OF THE
VIRUS, VERY FEW
HOSPITALIZATIONS.
SO WE THINK THAT WE CAN START TO
OPEN UP IN A VAST MAJORITY OF
THE STATE.
>> SO, AS YOU KNOW, THE JOINT
COMMITTEE ON REVIEW OF
ADMINISTRATIVE RULES HAS THE
POWER TO BLOCK THESE NEW RULES
THAT ARE GOING TO BE DRAFTED.
SHOULD IT, IN YOUR MIND?
>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO WAIT
AND SEE WHAT THE NEW RULES ARE.
I'D HATE TO PRESUME THAT THE
GOVERNOR ISN'T GOING TO LISTEN
TO THE PUBLIC AND ISN'T GOING TO
LISTEN TO THE LEGISLATURE IN
CRAFTING THESE NEW RULES.
SO HOPEFULLY HE'LL DO THAT AND
GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT
THE NEW RULES.
BUT THAT'S YET TO BE SEEN.
>> SO IN YOUR MIND, DO YOU THINK
THAT THE COMMITTEE SHOULD KIND
OF SAVE THESE KINDS OF RULES FOR
ANY SURGE IN CASES?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT REPRESENTATIVE
BALLWEG, WHO IS CO-CHAIR OF THE
JOINT COMMITTEE AND THE REVIEW
OF ADMINISTRATIVE RULES, TALKED
ABOUT, WAS HAVING SOMETHING IN
PLACE IN CASE WE DO HAVE ANOTHER
SURGE.
AS WE'VE SEEN IN WISCONSIN,
THERE ARE NO HOSPITALS OPERATING
AT CRISIS LEVEL, SO WE'RE IN A
REALLY GOOD SPOT.
THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU'VE SEEN
MOST OF THE COUNTIES START TO
OPEN UP.
SOME COUNTIES ARE CHOOSING TO
EXTEND THOSE "SAFER AT HOME"
ORDERS.
THE GOVERNOR'S ORDER ONLY LASTS
UNTIL THE 26TH AND EVEN HE SAID
HE WASN'T GOING TO EXTEND THEM
BEYOND THAT STATE.
>> WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF THOSE
LOCAL OR COUNTY ORDERS?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S WELL
WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS, AS I SEE
IT.
I THINK THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT
THEY BELIEVE IS CORRECT WITH THE
SITUATION ON THE GROUND WITHIN
THEIR OWN COUNTIES.
I'D MUCH RATHER SEE THAT
APPROACH THAN A STATEWIDE
APPROACH, WHERE EVERY AREA IS
TREATED EXACTLY THE SAME.
BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, IN THE
VAST MAJORITY OF THE STATE THERE
AREN'T THESE CRISIS LEVELS OF
THE VIRUS.
>> WILL YOU BE GOING OUT TO A
RESTAURANT THIS WEEKEND OR
ELSEWHERE BECAUSE OF THE RULING
FROM THE COURT?
>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, I'M IN A
COUNTY THAT CHOSE TO EXTEND THE
"SAFER AT HOME" ORDER
INDEFINITELY, EVEN THOUGH
OUTAGAMIE COUNTY ONLY HAS 124
CASES.
SO I'M KIND OF CONFUSED AS TO
WHY THIS PARTICULAR COUNTY
DECIDED TO GO FURTHER THAN EVERY
OTHER COUNTY -- ALMOST EVERY
OTHER COUNTY OUT THERE.
BUT I HAPPEN TO BE IN ONE OF
THOSE COUNTIES THAT HAS A "SAFER
AT HOME" EXTENDED AND SURROUNDED
BY BROWN COUNTY AND WINNEBAGO
AND CALUMET THAT ALSO HAVE THAT
ORDER IN PLACE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE,
REPRESENTATIVE STEINEKE.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR JOINING US.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> FOR THE SECOND TIME IN AS
MANY MONTHS, WISCONSIN VOTERS
WENT TO THE POLLS DURING THE
COVID-19 CRISIS.
THE WISCONSIN NATIONAL GUARD
ALSO ACTIVATED AGAIN TO HELP
WORK POLLING PLACES IN TUESDAY'S
7TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT
SPECIAL ELECTION.
ABOUT 160 GUARD MEMBERS HELPED
SERVE THE 700 MUNICIPALITIES.
THEY WORKED IN CIVILIAN CLOTHES,
PERFORMING THE SAME DUTIES AS
OTHER POLL WORKERS.
TOM TIFFANY DEFEATED TRICIA
ZUNKER IN THE 7TH CONGRESSIONAL
DISTRICT.
IT SPANS 26 NORTHERN WISCONSIN
COUNTIES.
THE 7TH IS ON THE BALLOT AGAIN
IN NOVEMBER.
TIFFANY IS EXPECTED TO BE IN
WASHINGTON NEXT WEEK, WHERE
CONGRESS IS LOOKING AT MORE
MEASURES TO COMBAT COVID-19.
>> DESPITE THE STATE SUPREME
COURT RULING, WORK ON THE FRONT
LINES CONTINUES AND THE NUMBER
OF PEOPLE ABLE TO GET TESTED FOR
CORONAVIRUS IS ON THE RISE.
THE WISCONSIN NATIONAL GUARD NOW
HAS 25 COLLECTION TEAMS,
INCLUDING THIS ONE IN GREEN BAY.
MORE THAN 20 WISCONSIN COUNTIES
ARE BENEFITING FROM THE
INCREASED TESTING AT
COMMUNITY-BASED SITES, WITH
GUARD MEMBERS COLLECTING NEARLY
25,000 SAMPLES.
BY MIDWEEK AT THE ALLIANT ENERGY
CENTER IN MADISON, THE NATIONAL
GUARD HAD TAKEN MORE THAN 1,000
SAMPLES.
1600 TROOPS ARE NOW SERVING IN
DIRECT SUPPORT OF THE STATE'S
COVID-19 RESPONSE.
>> AS WISCONSIN JUMPS FORWARD
IMMEDIATE REOPENING WITH SOME
COUNTIES MAINTAINING "SAFER AT
HOME" RULES, HEALTH CARE WORKERS
STAY THE COURSE, BRACING FOR
INCOMING PATIENTS, DEATHS AND
THE DURESS OF THE FRONT LINE
CARE.
WHEN THE PANDEMIC FIRST HIT
WISCONSIN BACK IN MARCH, WE
TALKED WITH DR. NASIA SAFDAR
WITH THE UW DIVISION OF
INFECTIOUS DISEASE.
THIS WEEK, WE WANT TO CHECK BACK
IN WITH HER.
AND, DR. SAFDAR, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US AGAIN.
>> THANK YOU.
>> WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE
COURT RULING THAT IMMEDIATELY
REOPENED THE STATE?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK FROM A
PUBLIC HEALTH AND INFECTION
CONTROL STANDPOINT, I THINK WE
HAVE ALWAYS ADVISED THAT
REOPENING SHOULD BE A GRADUAL,
CAREFULLY-MONITORED PROCESS.
AND SO THIS GOES AGAINST THAT.
>> AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
THAT?
>> I THINK POTENTIALLY THERE ARE
ACTIVITIES AS PEOPLE CO-MINGLE
AND GATHER THAT WILL MAKE IT
CHALLENGING TO MAINTAIN COVID-19
IN THE WAY THAT WE HAVE BEEN
ABLE, FORTUNATELY, LOCALLY AND
IN THE LARGER STATE, BEEN ABLE
TO DO THUS FAR.
>> YEAH.
I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU
BELIEVE THAT THE "SAFER AT HOME"
ORDER HAD FLATTENED THE CURVE.
>> I THINK MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE
THAT TO BE TRUE.
AND I THINK THE DATA ON MOBILITY
AND THE EFFECT OF REDUCING
MOBILITY ON COVID-19 GROWTH RATE
AND NEW CASES IS PRETTY
COMPELLING.
SO I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE
SOMETHING THAT HAS WORKED
SUCCESSFULLY, IF YOU DO DECIDE
TO DEESCALATE IT, IT SHOULD BE
DONE IN A VERY CAREFUL, GRADUAL
MANNER.
>> AND MEANWHILE THIS WILL, AT
LEAST SO FAR, BE DONE IN KIND OF
A PATCHWORK MANNER, WITH SOME
NUMBER OF COUNTIES DECIDING TO
GO AHEAD AND MAINTAIN THOSE
ORDERS, WHEREAS OTHERS WILL NOT.
IF THERE WERE TO BE A SURGE IN
CASES AS WE REOPEN THE STATE IN
THIS WAY, ARE HEALTH CARE
WORKERS WHERE YOU ARE ABLE TO
MANAGE A JUMP IN CASES?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE MUCH
BETTER POSITIONED THAN WE WERE
IN THE EARLIER STAGES OF THIS
PANDEMIC IN THIS COUNTRY IN THE
SENSE THAT WE NOW KNOW A LOT
MORE ABOUT TRANSMISSION, ABOUT
ITS IMPACT, THE POPULATIONS AT
RISK AND ALL THOSE THINGS THAT
WE REALLY HAD VERY LIMITED
INFORMATION ABOUT BEFORE.
HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK WHILE
WE ARE BETTER PREPARED TO MANAGE
MORE PATIENTS, WE STILL WANT TO
AVOID A SURGE THAT WOULD
OVERWHELM ANYONE OR MORE HEALTH
SYSTEMS.
>> IS THE SUPPLY OF THINGS LIKE
PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT
NOW ADEQUATE, I MEAN, FOR RIGHT
NOW AND GOING FORWARD?
>> SO IT'S ADEQUATE FOR RIGHT
NOW.
I THINK GOING FORWARD AS WELL,
IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, BUT IT WOULD
TO SOME EXTENT DEPEND ON HOW
MANY CASES WE SEE AND HOW SICK
THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE AND WHAT
KIND OF PPE IS REQUIRED.
I THINK OUR USE OF PPE HAS BEEN
OPTIMIZED CONSIDERABLY, SO WE
ARE CONSERVING AND REUSING
THINGS AND THAT HAS LED TO US
BEING ABLE TO KEEP OUR PPE
AROUND LONGER.
>> YOU'VE SAID THAT THERE ARE
THINGS YOU HAVE LEARNED ABOUT
COVID-19, OBVIOUSLY, SINCE THE
EARLY DAYS.
WHAT WOULD YOU ESTIMATE IS THE
MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT YOU'VE
LEARNED ABOUT THIS VIRUS?
>> I THINK THE FACT THAT THERE
IS THIS EASE OF TRANSMISSION
FROM ASYMPTOMATIC PEOPLE IS
PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT NEW
DATA THAT HAS COME FORWARD.
AND THAT SUGGESTS THAT, YOU
KNOW, IF ASYMPTOMATIC CARRIAGE
IS THE MAIN REASON OR ONE OF THE
MAIN REASONS THAT TRANSMISSION
IS HAPPENING, THAT'S PRETTY HARD
TO CONTAIN WITHOUT SOME OF THE
MORE DRASTIC MEASURES LIKE THE
"SAFER AT HOME" ORDER.
>> SO WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE
THEN TO PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE
COMMUNITY?
>> I THINK NOW MORE THAN EVER
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE
DON'T GO FROM ZERO TO 100 EVEN
IF THE "SAFER AT HOME" ORDER HAS
BEEN LIFTED AT A STATEWIDE
LEVEL.
I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD STILL
THINK TO THEMSELVES DO I REALLY
NEED TO LEAVE THE HOUSE AND, IF
I DO, WHAT'S THE ESSENTIAL
ACTIVITY I MUST PERFORM.
IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO KEEP
PEOPLE AT THE LEVEL WE WERE AT.
IT TAKES A TOLL ON PEOPLE'S
PSYCHOLOGICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH.
BUT WE DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE
LARGE PUBLIC GATHERINGS AND
TRYING TO GO BACK TO THE WAY WE
WERE BEFORE COVID HIT.
>> WHAT ABOUT THINGS LIKE
SHOPPING OR SOCIALIZING?
ARE THOSE SAFE, IN YOUR MIND?
>> I THINK I WOULD CONSIDER
THOSE RISKIER THAN THE CURRENT
STATE.
I WOULD RECOMMEND AVOIDING THEM
TO THE EXTENT ONE CAN.
>> HOW IMPORTANT DOES RAMPED-UP
TESTING CONTINUE TO BE?
>> I THINK TESTING CAPACITY HAS
CONSIDERABLY IMPROVED, AND I
THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY
IMPORTANT TO DETERMINE THE
CIRCLE OF INDIVIDUALS WHO MIGHT
HAVE COME IN CONTACT WITH
SOMEBODY WHO TESTS POSITIVE FOR
COVID.
THAT'S EASIER NOW TO DETERMINE
AS WE CAN TEST A LARGER SWATH OF
THE POPULATION THAN WE HAD
EARLIER.
>> IS PLASMA FROM RECOVERED
PATIENTS PROVING A SUCCESSFUL
TREATMENT?
>> I THINK IT'S A POTENTIALLY
PROMISING TREATMENT.
I DON'T THINK CONCLUSIVELY THAT
IT IS PROVING TO BE THE CASE.
WE BELIEVE IT IS.
CASES SUGGEST IMPROVED OUTCOMES.
BUT THERE'S VERY LITTLE
COMPARATIVE DATA.
SO IS THERE REALLY A COMPELLING
DIFFERENCE.
WE'RE AWAITING THAT.
THERE ARE MULTIPLE STUDIES
UNDERWAY.
WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET FOR A
FACT.
>> WHAT DO EXPERTS THINK ABOUT
HOW LONG IT WILL BE BEFORE WE
SEE A VACCINE?
>> I THINK SOMETIME NEXT YEAR,
ASSUMING THAT THE EXISTING
CANDIDATES THAT ARE IN VARIOUS
STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT, ONE OR
MORE OF THEM TURN OUT TO BE
PROMISING ENOUGH TO MOVE
FORWARD.
SO IT'S A VERY ACCELERATED TIME
FRAME COMPARED TO OTHER VACCINE
DEVELOPMENTS.
SO I REMAIN OPTIMISTIC.
>> DR. NASIA SAFDAR, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, AND THANK YOU FOR
YOUR WORK.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> TONIGHT WE SHARE THE STORY OF
A COVID-19 SURVIVOR, A CRAWFORD
COUNTY MAN WHO NEVER THOUGHT IT
WOULD AFFECT HIM.
HE'S A SKEPTIC NO MORE.
AS TREVOR KELLER REPORTS, HE'S
NOW TELLING HIS STORY.
>> WHEN THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
BEGAN, CRAIG BELL WASN'T
WORRIED.
>> AND I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU.
I THOUGHT THIS THING IS JUST
GETTING BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.
I'M LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
I THOUGHT, THIS STUFF AIN'T
COMING HERE.
>> "HERE" IS EASTMAN, A SMALL
TOWN OF 400 IN CRAWFORD COUNTY.
BELL IS A 59-YEAR-OLD MAIL
CARRIER.
IN APRIL HE NEARLY BECAME A
COVID FATALITY.
>> I WAS GETTING A FEVER AND MY
HEAD WAS OUT OF SORTS.
>> IT TOOK TWO TRIPS TO URGENT
CARE TO GET A COVID TEST, WHICH
TURNED OUT POSITIVE.
HE WAS TAKEN TO MAYO CLINIC IN
LA CROSSE, WHERE HE'D SPEND
EIGHT DAYS IN A COMA WITH A
BREATHING TUBE.
>> HE WAS BREATHING CLOSE TO 40
TIMES A MINUTE, WHICH IS
EXHAUSTING.
>> THEY SAID THIS ISN'T LOOKING
GOOD AT ALL.
HE'S BASICALLY -- HE'S READY FOR
THE -- HE'S READY FOR THE
GRAVEYARD HERE.
>> DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, HIS
KIDNEYS STOPPED WORKING AND WE
HAD TO START HIM ON DIALYSIS.
>> BELL'S WIFE JULIE WAS TOLD BY
DOCTORS TO EXPECT THE WORST, BUT
SHE WASN'T ALLOWED TO VISIT THE
HOSPITAL.
>> IF HE'S GOING TO BE GONE, I'D
LIKE TO SAY GOODBYE TO HIM.
AND THEY SAID, WE CAN'T LET YOU
DO THAT, BUT WE PROMISE THAT
WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT HE GOES,
YOU KNOW -- HE WON'T FEEL PAIN
AND HE'LL GO EASY.
>> BELL'S CONDITION IMPROVED ON
DAYS SEVEN AND EIGHT AND HE WAS
BROUGHT OUT OF THE COMA.
HE'D SPEND TWO WEEKS IN THE
HOSPITAL.
>> THE ODDS WERE STACKED AGAINST
HIM.
SO I'M VERY SURPRISED, VERY
HAPPY THAT WE'VE HAD THE OUTCOME
THAT WE'VE HAD.
>> IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY IN
EASTMAN.
IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE.
>> BELL STILL GOES TO KIDNEY
DIALYSIS THREE TIMES A WEEK AND
DOCTORS HOPE FOR A FULL
RECOVERY.
BELL SAYS HE'S FEELING BETTER
AND THAT PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE THE
VIRUS SERIOUSLY.
HIS WIFE DESCRIBED THEIR
EXPERIENCE AS, QUOTE, "HELL."
>> I DON'T HAVE ONE WORD TO
DESCRIBE IT OTHER THAN -- IT'S
HELL.
MY WIFE'S GOT IT RIGHT.
IT'S HELL.
>> FOR "HERE AND NOW," I'M
TREVOR KELLER.
>> HELPING WITH EVERYTHING FROM
TESTING TO VOTING, THE NATIONAL
GUARD ALSO TOOK TO THE AIR THIS
WEEK, WITH F-16 PILOTS FROM THE
WISCONSIN AIR NATIONAL GUARD
STAGING FLY-OVERS TUESDAY TO
HONOR AND SALUTE HEALTH CARE
WORKERS AND FIRST RESPONDERS.
BASED OUT OF MADISON, THEY TOOK
PART IN THE NATIONAL EFFORT,
FLYING OVER HOSPITALS IN 17
COMMUNITIES FROM KENOSHA TO
WAUSAU AND EAU CLAIRE, AND BACK
AGAIN TO THEIR BASE AT TRUAX
FIELD.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS
WEEK.
BE SURE TO JOIN US ONLINE
THROUGHOUT THE WEEK FOR UPDATES
ON THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AT
PBSWISCONSIN.ORG, AND THEN CLICK
ON THE "NEWS" TAB.
ALSO FOR ONGOING IN-DEPTH
COVERAGE IN WISCONSIN VISIT
WisContext.
THIS WEEK, A LOOK AT CONTACT
TRACING.
IT'S THE NEXT BIG STEP IN THE
FIGHT AGAINST COVID-19.
THAT'S WisContext.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "HERE &
NOW."
STAY WELL, WISCONSIN, AND WE
WILL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.