- ANNOUNCER: A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.
- ANNOUNCER: THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART
OF OUR 'HERE & NOW 2020' ELECTION COVERAGE.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.
WELCOME TO A SPECIAL EDITION OF "HERE & NOW" ON PBS WISCONSIN.
AND HELLO TO PEOPLE LISTENING AROUND THE STATE ON WISCONSIN
PUBLIC RADIO.
WHILE OFFICIALS AND RESIDENTS AROUND THE STATE COPE WITH THE
COVID-19 PANDEMIC, WISCONSIN ELECTION CLERKS ARE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT HOW THEY WILL PULL OFF THE APRIL 7TH SPRING
ELECTION.
IN ADDITION TO THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY,
THE MOST PROMINENT RACE ON THE BALLOT IS FOR THE WISCONSIN
SUPREME COURT.
AND TONIGHT WE HAVE INTERVIEWS WITH BOTH CANDIDATES.
IT'S A SPECIAL EDITION OF "HERE & NOW": WISCONSIN'S RACE FOR THE
STATE SUPREME COURT.
- FUNDING FOR '"HERE & NOW"' IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.
[MUSIC]
- ZAC SCHULTZ: INCUMBENT JUSTICE DANIEL KELLY WAS
APPOINTED TO THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT BY FORMER GOVERNOR
SCOTT WALKER.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF WISCONSIN AND OTHER CONSERVATIVE
GROUPS ARE CAMPAIGNING FOR HIM.
JUDGE JILL KAROFSKY WAS ELECTED TO THE DANE COUNTY BENCH.
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF WISCONSIN AND OTHER LIBERAL
GROUPS ARE CAMPAIGNING FOR HER.
FOR MOST OF YOU, THAT'S ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED TO DECIDE
HOW TO VOTE.
AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY CAST THEIR BALLOT.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVEN'T DECIDED YET,
AND HAVEN'T VOTED YET, WE HOPE THESE INTERVIEWS WILL HELP
INFORM YOUR DECISION.
WE BEGIN WITH THE CHALLENGER.
JILL KAROFSKY IS A DANE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE.
PRIOR TO HER TIME ON THE BENCH, JUDGE KAROFSKY SERVED AS THE
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE OFFICE OF CRIME VICTIM SERVICES.
SHE'S ALSO A FORMER STATE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL.
JILL KAROFSKY JOINS US NOW VIA SKYPE.
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
- JILL KAROFSKY: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW LET'S START BY ADDRESSING THE COVID-19
PANDEMIC AND THE STATEWIDE EMERGENCY CALLED BY GOVERNOR
TONY EVERS.
THIS WEEK THE GOVERNOR ISSUED A SAFER AT HOME ORDER THAT
PROHIBITS ALL NONESSENTIAL TRAVEL.
THE ORDER REMAINS IN PLACE UNTIL APRIL 24TH.
WHAT ARE THE LEGAL LIMITS TO THE GOVERNOR'S POWER TO ISSUE AND
ENFORCE THESE ORDERS...WOULD IT BE UP THE COURTS TO DETERMINE IF
AN ORDER BECOMES "TOO OPPRESSIVE OR UNREASONABLE?"
- JILL KAROFSKY: LOOK, WE ALL NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO
BE SAFE AND TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR NEIGHBORS AND OUR FAMILY
MEMBERS AND THOSE AROUND US ARE SAFE.
IN OUR CAMPAIGN, WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS GONE VIRTUAL.
WE'RE HAVING NO MORE PERSONAL EVENTS.
WE ARE MAKING SURE THOUGH THAT WE ARE STILL GETTING OUR MESSAGE
OUT EVERY WAY WE CAN, WHETHER IT'S ON FACEBOOK OR TWITTER OR
EMAIL OR TEXT, DOING INTERVIEWS LIKE THIS, OR RADIO INTERVIEWS.
AS FAR AS ME COMMENTING ON THE GOVERNOR'S LEGAL AUTHORITY,
I WANT TO BE VERY CAREFUL TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT IS AN ISSUE
THAT COULD GET UP TO THE WISCONSIN STATE SUPREME COURT,
AND WHEN I WIN THIS RACE IT'S AN ISSUE THAT I WOULD HAVE TO WEIGH
IN ON.
AND SO, I'M GONNA, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT,
NOT DIRECTLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION,
BUT I DO THINK THAT IT'S INCUMBENT UPON ALL OF US TO DO
WHAT WE CAN TO STAY SAFE, WHICH IS WHY I'M APPEARING BY SKYPE
TODAY AND HERE IN MY KITCHEN, WHERE I'M TELLING MY KIDS
TO WASH THEIR HANDS ABOUT EVERY 20 SECONDS.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: SO, UNDERSTANDING YOU DON'T WANT TO
COMMENT DIRECTLY ON THE ORDER, BUT AT WHAT POINT DO YOU AS A
MEMBER OF THE COURT START THINKING ABOUT THESE LEGAL
ISSUES THAT COULD COME BEFORE YOU?
- JILL KAROFSKY: YOU WOULD START THINKING ABOUT THEM WHEN A
LAWSUIT IS FILED AND ONCE IT MAKES ITS WAY THROUGH THE
CIRCUIT COURT AND THROUGH THE COURT OF APPEALS AND THEN GETS
TO THE WISCONSIN STATE SUPREME COURT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: BUT YOU DON'T PONDER WHAT MAY HAPPEN NOW,
IF YOU SEE A LEGAL OPINION THAT'S THROWN AROUND ON THE
INTERNET?
- JILL KAROFSKY: WHEN I AM THINKING ABOUT COVID-19 RIGHT
NOW, ZAC, I AM THINKING ABOUT...
NUMBER ONE: HOW CAN I KEEP MY FAMILY SAFE.
NUMBER TWO: MY CONCERN RIGHT NOW AS A CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE AND AS
THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS RACE RIGHT NOW WHO IS A TRIAL COURT
JUDGE, I AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT 'HOW DO I DO MY JOB RIGHT NOW?'
I HAVE BEEN WORKING VERY, VERY HARD WITH MY COLLEAGUES TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR APPROACH NEEDS TO BE.
WE'RE NO LONGER HAVING JURY TRIALS THROUGHOUT THE STATE,
BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHER HEARINGS THAT WE MUST HAVE.
AND SO, WE ARE USING DIFFERENT APPS SO THAT WE CAN STILL HOLD
HEARINGS SO THAT PEOPLE ARE AFFORDED THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL
RIGHTS.
AND I'M CONSTANTLY BALANCING PEOPLE'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
WITH THE SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITY,
AND I'M THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS RACE WHO'S HAVING TO DO THIS
RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S THE KIND OF EXPERIENCE I'M GONNA BRING TO THE WISCONSIN
STATE SUPREME COURT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: YOU MENTIONED THE POSTPONEMENT OF ALL JURY
TRIALS THAT'S BEEN DONE BY THE SUPREME COURT.
YOUR OPPONENT AGREED WITH THE DISSENT TO THAT ORDER THAT SAID
THIS EMERGENCY DOES NOT WARRANT SUSPENDING THE SIXTH AMENDMENT
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY TRIAL.
WHAT DO YOU THINK WITH THE ORDER FROM THE COURT?
- JILL KAROFSKY: AS FAR AS I HAVE MYSELF,
IN MY BRANCH WE HAD ONE CASE THAT WE MOVED BACK TWO WEEKS.
AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THAT IS GOING TO-- I WAS I WAS
COMFORTABLE DOING THAT, OBVIOUSLY,
AND I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO DETAILS ABOUT ANY CASE THAT I
HAVE BEFORE ME BECAUSE I NEED TO MAKE SOME IMPORTANT DECISIONS.
BUT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IT WITH THE PARTIES AHEAD OF TIME THAT
WE HAD SAVED A DATE AT THE END OF MAY,
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING IN OUR CASE.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: BUT IS THIS A THREAT TO THE SIXTH AMENDMENT,
AS YOUR OPPONENT SEEMS TO SAY IN HIS ARGUMENT TO THAT DISSENT?
- JILL KAROFSKY: YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE-- AS FAR AS I'M
CONCERNED, ANY DECISION THAT I HAVE MADE AND IN MY COURT,
I HAVE MADE AND IT IS IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL AND WILL HOLD UP
ASSUMING THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS APPLIED THE WAY THAT IT
SHOULD BE.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: GOVERNOR EVERS HAS SUSPENDED ALL ADMISSIONS TO
STATE PRISONS, LEAVING INMATES AND COUNTY JAILS.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT POLICY AND AT WHAT POINT DOES THE
EMERGENCY COME INTO CONFLICT WITH DUE PROCESS IN THAT AREA?
- JILL KAROFSKY: WELL, WE ARE IN DANE COUNTY TAKING IT CASE BY
CASE.
SO, I HAVE I WAS ASSIGNED OVER 1,700 CASES LAST YEAR,
AND IN EACH OF THOSE CASES WE ARE PAINSTAKINGLY GOING THROUGH
AND IDENTIFYING CASES WHERE A SENTENCE COULD BE STAYED FOR A
SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, AND IN SOME CASES,
SENTENCES CAN'T BE STAYED, IT WOULD BE-- IT WOULD BE A DANGER
TO THE COMMUNITY.
IT WOULD BE A DANGER TO THE VICTIMS.
WE ARE LOOKING AT BAIL CONDITIONS.
WE ARE LOOKING AT EVERY SINGLE PART OF A CASE
TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT RESPONSE.
AND AGAIN, THAT IS AN EXPERIENCE THAT I'M GONNA BRING TO THE
WISCONSIN STATE SUPREME COURT THAT MY OPPONENT DOESN'T HAVE.
LOOK, THIS IS A GUY WHO HAS NEVER PRESIDED OVER ANY CASE.
HE WAS APPOINTED TO THE WISCONSIN STATE SUPREME COURT
WITHOUT HAVING ONE MINUTE OF JUDICIAL EXPERIENCE.
HE NEVER HAD TO MAKE THE TYPES OF DECISION THAT I HAVE MAKE,
HAVING TO MAKE MANY, MANY TIMES A DAY, DAY IN AND DAY OUT.
HE WAS APPOINTED FOR ONE REASON AND ONE REASON ONLY,
AND IT WAS BECAUSE HIS RIGHT-WING AGENDA MATCHED UP
WITH THE RIGHT-WING AGENDA OF SCOTT WALKER.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: YOU MENTIONED THAT-- YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT HIM
BEING APPOINTED SO CARRY WATER FOR RIGHT-WING SPECIAL
INTERESTS.
HE SAYS THAT YOU ARE SLANDERING MEMBERS OF THE COURT THAT AGREE
WITH THOSE DECISIONS HE'S MADE.
ARE YOUR STATEMENTS SLANDEROUS AND ARE YOU TRYING TO LUMP IN
OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COURT THAT AGREE WITH HIS DECISIONS?
- JILL KAROFSKY: I AM RUNNING AGAINST ONE MEMBER OF THE COURT
AND ONE MEMBER ONLY.
I AM RUNNING AGAINST DAN KELLY.
AND I AM-- EVERY FIRST-YEAR LAW STUDENT KNOWS THAT THE DEFENSE
TO SLANDER IS THE TRUTH, AND WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS THE
TRUTH.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS DECISIONS,
WHEN EVERY SINGLE TIME HE HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO RULE IN
FAVOR OF THE RIGHT-WING SPECIAL INTERESTS, HE HAS DONE IT.
EVERY SINGLE TIME HE HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A DECISION,
HE'S MADE DECISIONS, PROCEDURAL DECISIONS,
THAT BENEFIT THE RIGHT-WING SPECIAL INTERESTS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAME DUCK CASE WHERE THEY JUST TOOK THAT
CASE, PLUCKED IT RIGHT FROM THE TRIAL COURT,
WITHOUT EVER HAVING A HEARING, WITHOUT EVER KNOWING WHAT THE
EVIDENCE WAS, SO THAT HE COULD GET TO THAT CASE AND SO HE COULD
MAKE A DECISION AS FAST AS HE COULD.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECUSAL RULE, WE HAVE ONE OF THE WEAKEST
RECUSAL RULES IN THE UNITED STATES.
OUR RECUSAL RULE WAS DRAFTED BY THE WISCONSIN MANUFACTURERS AND
COMMERCE AND THE REALTORS ASSOCIATION.
THAT IS A RECUSAL RULE THAT DAN KELLY HAS STOOD BY.
HE WANTS TO HAVE OUTSIDE SPECIAL INFLUENCE HAVE AN IMPACT ON
THESE RACES.
HE IS HAPPY TO TAKE THEIR MONEY, AND THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO
BENEFIT BY HIS DECISIONS.
WHAT WE HAVE IS A 'FOR SALE' SIGN ON OUR SUPREME COURT NOW.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: IF ELECTED, IF ELECTED HOW WILL YOU WORK WITH
MEMBERS OF THE COURT THAT HAVE SAID YOU ARE NOT FIT TO SERVE ON
THE COURT?
- JILL KAROFSKY: LOOK, I AGREE WITH THE MEMBERS OF THE COURT
WHO SAY THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A SUPREME COURT WITH INTEGRITY.
PEOPLE NEED TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN OUR SUPREME COURT.
I AGREE WITH THEM.
THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT THAT.
THE PROBLEM IS THIS: THE PROBLEM IS IS THAT DAN KELLY HAS AN
AGENDA, NOT THAT I'M SHINING A LIGHT ON THE FACT THAT HE HAS AN
AGENDA, AND IF WE WANT TO BRING INTEGRITY BACK TO THE WISCONSIN
STATE SUPREME COURT, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS REPLACE DAN KELLY
ON APRIL 7TH.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: DO YOU THINK DAN KELLY IS QUALIFIED AND FIT TO
SERVE ON THE SUPREME COURT?
- JILL KAROFSKY: I THINK THAT DAN KELLY WAS PUT ON THE COURT
FOR ONE REASON AND ONE REASON ONLY,
AND THAT WAS TO CARRY THE WATER OF THE RIGHT-WING SPECIAL
INTERESTS OF CORPORATIONS OF THE WEALTHY AND HE HAS DONE JUST
THAT.
HE HAS NOT SPILLED A DROP OF THEIR WATER.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: SWITCHING TOPICS SLIGHTLY: THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF
THE SUPREME COURT HAS EXTENDED A COMMERCIAL COURT PILOT PROJECT
TO DANE COUNTY THAT WOULD ALLOW HER TO HAND-PICK JUDGES TO
PRESIDE OVER BUSINESS LAWSUITS.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS PROJECT AND WHAT ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS
OF IT?
- JILL KAROFSKY: I THINK THAT APPEARANCES ARE VERY,
VERY IMPORTANT AND I AGREE WITH MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THE
DANE COUNTY BENCH.
WHEN YOU HAVE A SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE TWO-TIERED,
THAT THERE IS ONE SYSTEM OF JUSTICE OR BIG BUSINESS,
AND ONE SYSTEM OF JUSTICE FOR THE REST OF US,
THAT REALLY IS TROUBLING TO MANY, MANY PEOPLE.
LOOK, I PRESIDE OVER MANY, MANY CRIMINAL CASES IN A YEAR,
AND EVERY SINGLE VICTIM IN EVERY ONE OF THOSE CASES WOULD LIKE
THEIR CASE TO GET TO GET TO A RESULT FASTER.
SAME FOR DEFENDANTS.
THEY WANT THESE CASES TO REACH A RESOLUTION.
PEOPLE NEED FINALITY, AND TO SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO GIVE ONE
GROUP OF PEOPLE FINALITY AND A QUICKER RESOLUTION IN THEIR
CASES, RATHER THAN ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE JUST SEEMS TO ME TO
LOOK LIKE WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT ISN'T FAIR TO EVERYBODY.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW, A NUMBER OF COUNTY MUNICIPAL CLERKS AND
AROUND THE STATE HAVE CALLED FOR THIS ELECTION TO BE POSTPONED.
THEY'VE EVEN FILED A FEDERAL LAWSUIT.
DO YOU AS A CANDIDATE AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF POSTPONING THIS
ELECTION?
- JILL KAROFSKY: WHAT WE ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO IS TO
VOTE ABSENTEE.
PEOPLE CAN STILL GET ON MYVOTE.WI.GOV.
THEY CAN REGISTER ONLINE UNTIL THE 30TH.
YOU CAN GET AN ABSENTEE BALLOT UNTIL APRIL 2ND.
YOUR BALLOT HAS TO BE RECEIVED BY THE MUNICIPAL CLERK'S OFFICE
AND YOUR MUNICIPALITY BY APRIL 7TH AT 8 O'CLOCK.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION ON EXTENDING ANY OF
THOSE DEADLINES DUE TO THE PANDEMIC?
- JILL KAROFSKY: LOOK, WE WE ARE FOCUSED ON APRIL-- AS YOU
AND I ARE TALKING RIGHT NOW AND AS WE ARE RECORDING THIS,
THE ELECTION IS APRIL 7TH AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE FOCUSED ON
TODAY.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW, YOUR OPPONENT WAS FIRST APPOINTED TO
THE COURT.
YOU'RE RUNNING IN A STATEWIDE ELECTION.
WHICH IS THE BEST WAY TO CHOOSE MEMBERS OF THE WISCONSIN SUPREME
COURT, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING HOW UGLY SOME OF THESE RACES
HAVE BECOME IN RECENT YEARS?
I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THESE ELECTIONS.
I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH BY TRAVELING ALL AROUND THE STATE
OF WISCONSIN AND LISTENING TO PEOPLE AROUND THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN, AND IF WE WANT TO CHANGE THESE ELECTIONS,
IF WE WANT TO STOP THE INFLUENCE OF THE OUTSIDE MONEY THAT COMES
INTO THESE RACES.
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS, NUMBER ONE: WE NEED TO ELECT JUSTICES
WHO ARE WILLING TO LOOK AT OUR RECUSAL ROLE.
THAT IS WHAT I AM WILLING TO DO.
SECOND: WE NEED JUSTICES THEN TO CHANGE THE RECUSAL RULE IN THIS
STATE SO THAT WHEN THE OUTSIDE MONEY COMES IN,
IF IN A CAMPAIGN, JUDGE OR A JUSTICE WILL NOT SIT ON THOSE
CASES.
AND THAT IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE SEEING
TODAY, AND DAN KELLY IS AGAINST THAT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: BUT DIRECT ELECTIONS BY THE POPULACE IS
STILL THE BEST WAY TO FILL OUR SUPREME COURT?
- JILL KAROFSKY: I BELIEVE SO, YES.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW, YOU'VE GOT A FEW SECONDS LEFT.
PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR BEST SUMMARY OF WHY VOTERS SHOULD VOTE FOR
YOU.
- JILL KAROFSKY: VOTERS SHOULD VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE I HAVE THE
EXPERIENCE THAT WE NEED ON THE WISCONSIN STATE SUPREME COURT
I'M THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS RACE, AS I MENTIONED,
WHO HAS BEEN A TRIAL COURT JUDGE.
I SEE HOW THE LAW IMPACTS REAL PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE DAY.
IN MY COURTROOM, WE FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW AND I TREAT EVERYONE
IN MY COURTROOM FAIRLY AND EQUALLY AND RESPECTFULLY.
I'VE ALSO GOT THE WISCONSIN VALUES THAT I'M GONNA BRING TO
THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT AND I'M ALSO GONNA BRING MY
TOUGHNESS AND MY INDEPENDENCE.
AND I WILL URGE VOTERS TO VOTE FOR ME VOTE ABSENTEE VOTE BEFORE
APRIL 7TH, WHICH IS THE ELECTION DATE.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: ALL RIGHT, JUDGE JILL KAROFSKY,
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
- JILL KAROFSKY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.
STAY WELL.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: THE INCUMBENT IN THE RACE IS JUSTICE DANIEL
KELLY.
JUSTICE KELLY IS A FORMER SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WITH THE
MILWAUKEE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
HE'S A FORMER STAFF ATTORNEY WITH THE US OFFICE OF FEDERAL
CLAIMS AND HAS ALSO WORKED A LONG CAREER IN PRIVATE LAW
PRACTICE.
DANIEL KELLY JOINS US NOW VIA SKYPE.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
- DANIEL KELLY: IT'S MY PLEASURE.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: WELL, LET'S START BY ADDRESSING THE COVID-19
PANDEMIC AND THE STATEWIDE EMERGENCY CALLED BY GOVERNOR
TONY EVERS.
WHAT ARE THE LEGAL LIMITS TO THE GOVERNOR'S POWER TO ISSUE AND
ENFORCE THESE ORDERS AND WOULD IT BE UP TO THE COURTS TO
DETERMINE IF AN ORDER BECOMES TOO OPPRESSIVE OR UNREASONABLE?
- DANIEL KELLY: YEAH, SO, OF COURSE,
ONE OF THE THINGS I CAN'T DO OF COURSE IS OPINE ON ANY
PARTICULAR MATTERS THAT MIGHT COME BEFORE THE COURT,
AND I THINK BUT THAT GOES INTO THE REST OF YOUR QUESTION.
IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT PARTS OF THIS ORDER COULD COME
BEFORE THE COURT AS CONTESTED MATTERS.
YOU KNOW, THE THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GO INTO SUSPENSION JUST
BECAUSE WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY.
SO ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL GUARANTEES
NEED TO REMAIN IN PLACE, AND SO.
SO, THERE'S ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY THAT SOMEONE MIGHT BELIEVE SOME
PART OF THE ORDER HAS GONE BEYOND WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S
CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY MIGHT BE, AND IF THEY BELIEVE THAT,
I'M SURE THEY'LL BRING THAT TO THE COURTS,
AND WE'LL CONSIDER IT IN DUE COURSE.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: WHEN THERE'S NOT MUCH HISTORY OF A PANDEMIC AND
AN EMERGENCY OF THIS PRECEDENT, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU AS A
JUSTICE START THINKING ABOUT THESE LEGAL ISSUES,
UNDERSTANDING YOU WOULDN'T MAKE A DECISION BEFORE YOU HAD BRIEFS
AND APPEARANCES, BUT WHEN DO YOU START THINKING ABOUT IT?
- DANIEL KELLY: YEAH, WELL, IF YOU HAVE AN ALL CURIOUS MIND,
YOU START THINKING ABOUT IT RIGHT AWAY, YOU KNOW.
AND, OF COURSE, WE DO HAVE A LONG HISTORY,
AND WE'VE HAD WE'VE HAD NATIONAL EMERGENCIES BEFORE,
AND WE'VE HAD PANDEMIC EMERGENCIES BEFORE.
THE SPANISH FLU CAME BEFORE THIS.
WE HAD MORE MINOR HEALTH EMERGENCIES SUBSEQUENT TO THAT,
BUT THERE IS THERE'S A HISTORY OUT THERE THAT WE CAN LOOK BACK
TO FOR GUIDANCE IN HOW TO HANDLE IT AS A POLICY MATTER ,
AND THAT'S OF COURSE FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR
TO TAKE CARE OF.
AND THEN, AS A LEGAL MATTER, OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO THE
CONSTITUTION AND ENSURING THAT WE CONTINUE TO BE FAITHFUL TO
ITS TERMS.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK TO THAT HISTORY AS WELL FOR CORRUPTION
FOR OUR OUR BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT HAS
ISSUED ORDERS POSTPONING ALL JURY TRIALS.
YOU DISSENTED TO THAT DECISION.
WHY?
- DANIEL KELLY: THAT'S CORRECT.
WELL, PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHAT I JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT HAVE AN EXCEPTION FOR CRISES.
IN FACT, THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN IN A TIME OF CRISIS AND
IS DESIGNED TO TO FUNCTION IN THAT WAY.
SO, SO, WE NEED TO DO TWO THINGS.
WE CAN DO THEM SIMULTANEOUSLY.
WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED AND CAREFUL ABOUT PEOPLE'S WELL
WELL-BEING AND THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO
ENDANGER ANYONE ELSE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME,
WE CAN BE HONORING CONSTITUTIONAL GUARANTEES.
THE SIXTH AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION SAYS
THAT DEFENDANTS SHALL ENJOY A SPEEDY TRIAL,
AND AND THAT'S NOT SUBJECT TO AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE THERE HAPPENS
TO BE A HEALTH CRISIS.
WE JUST HAVE TO BE CREATIVE IN THE WAY THAT WE HANDLE ARTICLES
TO MAKE SURE THAT BY PUTTING ANY WITNESSES
OR COURT PERSONNEL AT RISK.
AND WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS FOR THAT.
YOU KNOW, MOST OF OUR COURTHOUSES ARE EMPTY RIGHT NOW.
THERE'S PLENTY OF SPACE IN WHICH YOU CAN KEEP PEOPLE ADEQUATELY
SEPARATED AND YOU CAN STILL HONOR THE CONSTITUTION.
AND THAT'S WHY I DISSENTED IS BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE
HAVE THE AUTHORITIES, THE COURT, TO SUSPEND THE VERY DOCUMENT
THAT BY WHICH WE EXERCISE OUR AUTHORITY.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: ANOTHER LEGAL ISSUE: GOVERNOR EVERS HAS
SUSPENDED ALL ADMISSIONS TO STATE PRISONS.
INMATES ARE BEING HELD AT COUNTY JAILS.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS POLICY AND AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT
EMERGENCY POSSIBLY COME INTO CONFLICT WITH DUE PROCESS?
- DANIEL KELLY: YEAH, SO I DON'T AGREE OR DISAGREE
WITH THE POLICY.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S A POLICY DECISION HE NEEDS TO MAKE AND
AGAIN THAT POTENTIALLY COULD COME TO THE COURTS AS A
CONTESTED MATTER AND SO I DON'T WANT TO MAKE-- I WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT I'M NOT PREJUDGING ANY ISSUES THAT WE MIGHT NEED TO BE
DECIDING, BUT THERE'S-- OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A DUE PROCESS
COMPONENT TO WHICH EVERYONE IS ENTITLED AND THAT DUE PROCESS
GUARANTEE DOES NOT GO AWAY, JUST LIKE THE SPEEDY TRIAL GUARANTEE
DOES NOT GO AWAY.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW, A NUMBER OF COUNTY MUNICIPAL CLERKS FROM
AROUND THE STATE HAVE CALLED FOR THIS ELECTION TO BE POSTPONED.
THEY'VE ACTUALLY FILED IN FEDERAL COURT ON THAT ISSUE.
AS A CANDIDATE, NOT AS A JUDGE, BUT AS A CANDIDATE DO YOU AGREE
WITH POSTPONING THIS ELECTION?
- DANIEL KELLY: WELL, I THINK AGAIN THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE
CAN DO TWO THINGS AT THE SAME TIME.
I THINK THAT WE WE DO NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF THE POTENTIAL
RISKS, BUT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS IN AN INTELLIGENT
AND CAREFUL WAY.
AND WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE DATE OF THE ELECTION IS
SET BY STATUTE, AND YOU KNOW, THAT NEEDS TO BE CONDUCTED
ACCORDING TO LAW JUST AS EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE CONSTITUTION
ARE SET AND OUR STATUTES HAVE TO BE CARRIED OUT
ACCORDING TO THEIR TERMS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THIS AND I YOU KNOW ALL THE PLANNING
HAS GONE INTO A AN ELECTION DATE OF APRIL 7TH,
BUT YES THAT'S WHAT WE'RE COUNTING ON AT THE MOMENT
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RELYING ON THE LAWS AS THEY EXIST AT
THIS POINT AND SO THAT'S BEEN OUR PLAN.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: AND HOW HAS YOUR CAMPAIGN RESPONDED TO THE
PANDEMIC AND ALL THESE SHIFTS IN HOW THE VOTE IS OCCURRING?
- DANIEL KELLY: YEAH, SO THAT'S BEEN-- WE WE'VE HAD TO GET
CREATIVE.
SO, THREE WEEKS AGO MY CALENDAR WAS CHOCK-FULL OF EVENTS FROM
THAT POINT ALL THE WAY TO ELECTION DAY,
AND NOW THAT'S ALL THAT'S ALL BEEN CANCELED.
AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE, OF COURSE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING OUR
VOLUNTEERS AND THEN WE'RE NOT PUTTING THEM IN A PLACE WHERE
THEY'D BE POTENTIALLY PUTTING OTHERS AT RISK FOR THE SPREAD OF
THIS DISEASE.
SO, WHAT EVERYTHING IS PRETTY MUCH MOVED ONLINE AND SO I THINK
WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF FIGURING OUT HOW TO DO AND ENTIRELY
ONLINE CAMPAIGN.
AND IT'S A LITTLE AWKWARD, I HAVE TO TELL YOU.
YOU KNOW, WE WE'VE REALLY ENJOYED THIS PAST YEAR OF GOING
AROUND THIS BEAUTIFUL STATE OF OURS AND TALKING WITH FOLKS WHO
CARE ABOUT THEIR COMMUNITIES AND THEIR COURTS, AND, YOU KNOW,
THE THEIR CONSTITUTION AND HAVING FOLKS ON THE ON THE
SUPREME COURT WHO ARE COMMITTED TO UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION
AS IT'S WRITTEN.
AND THAT'S JUST BEEN-- THAT'S BEEN A JOY.
SO NOW, WE'RE TRYING TO RECREATE THAT IN SOME SENSE ALL ONLINE.
SO WE HAVE WE'RE HAVING KIND OF TELEVISED-- TELECONFERENCE AND
VIDEOCONFERENCE FOR A KIND OF A TOWN HALL SORT OF SORT OF
MEETING ONLINE.
AND SO, IT'S IT'S REALLY MEETING A LOT OF FOLKS VIRTUALLY NOW
RATHER THAN IN PERSON.
AND YOU KNOW, I'M NOT-- I'M KIND OF A TECH A TECH BUFF MYSELF.
I ENJOY TECHNOLOGY.
I LOVE IT, BUT IT IS, IT IS AT THE END OF THE DAY A POOR
SUBSTITUTE FOR FOR BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY SPEND TIME WITH
OUR FELLOW WISCONSINITES.
BUT WE'LL MAKE DO AS EVERYONE ELSE HAS.
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MAKING SACRIFICES AND SO WE'RE
STANDING RIGHT ALONG WITH THEM, MAKING SURE THAT WE CONDUCT
BUSINESS AS WE NEED TO, BUT IN A WAY THAT'S GOING TO BE SAFE AND
RESPONSIBLE OF THOSE WITH WHOM WE INTERACT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: NOW, GETTING TO THE MEAT OF THIS RACE,
YOUR OPPONENT SAYS THAT YOU WERE APPOINTED TO THE COURT TO CARRY
WATER FOR RIGHT-WING SPECIAL INTERESTS.
NOW YOU HAVE RESPONDED BY SAYING THAT SHE'S SLANDERING YOU AND
ALL MEMBERS OF THE COURT THAT AGREE WITH
DECISIONS YOU'VE MADE.
IS SLANDER THE APPROPRIATE TERM CONSIDERING
THIS ISN'T A POLITICAL ELECTION?
- DANIEL KELLY: IT IS.
YOU DON'T GET TO SLANDER PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE IT'S AN ELECTION.
SLANDER IS SLANDER.
WHEN YOU INTENTIONALLY LIE ABOUT SOMEONE,
THAT IS THAT IS SLANDER AND THAT'S WHAT MY OPPONENT HAS
MADE THIS REPEATED PREMISE OF HER ENTIRE CAMPAIGN.
IN FACT, IF SHE DID NOT HAVE LIES AND SLANDER,
SHE WOULDN'T HAVE A CAMPAIGN.
YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT TO DWELL
ON FOR JUST A MOMENT.
THIS IS THIS IS NOT CAMPAIGNING AS NORMAL.
WHAT SHE IS DOING IS SO FAR OUTSIDE THE PALE OF WHAT'S
ACCEPTABLE IN A RACE LIKE THIS, THAT IT HAS C-- IT'S WITHOUT
PRECEDENT, AND IT IS IT IS SO UNUSUAL THAT IT HAS CAUSED A
MAJORITY OF THE SITTING SUPREME COURT TO COME OUT AND CONDEMN
HER BEHAVIOR IN THIS CAMPAIGN.
I JUST WANT TO READ A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT THEY WHAT THEY'VE SAID,
JUST AS AN ILLUSTRATION OF HOW EGREGIOUS AND HOW DISGRACEFUL
HER BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN.
SO JUSTICES REBECCA BRADLEY AND BRIAN HAGEDORN WROTE THE JUDGE
JILL KAROFSKY'S SLANDER STATEMENTS ABOUT JUSTICE KELLY'S
WORK ON THE COURT ARE EVIDENCE OF HER LACK OF FITNESS
FOR THE BENCH.
AND THEN THE CHIEF JUSTICE AND THE DEPUTY CHIEF JUSTICE WROTE
THAT ATTACKS ON THE INTEGRITY OF THE COURT STRIKE AT THE HEART OF
THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM.
SUCH LANGUAGE RISKS UNDERMINING THE COURTS LEGITIMACY WITH
PARTIES, ATTORNEYS, AND THE PUBLIC.
SO, THIS IS, AND THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED THAT A BEHAVIOR
HAS BEEN SO BAD, SO DISRUPTIVE, THAT IT HAS CAUSED A MAJORITY OF
A SUPREME COURT TO COME OUT AND CONDEMN THAT BEHAVIOR.
AND THIS GOES BEYOND ME.
IT EVEN GOES BEYOND THE CURRENT MEMBERS OF THE COURT.
THE SLANDERS AND THE LIES IN MY OPPONENT IS TELLING STRIKE AT
THE VERY HEART OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM AS AN INSTITUTION.
YOU KNOW, I RECALL THAT ALEXANDER HAMILTON,
WHEN HE WAS WRITING ABOUT THE ADOPTION OF THE UNITED STATES
CONSTITUTION, HE TALKED ABOUT THE COURTS AND HE SAID THAT THE
COURTS HAVE NEITHER FORCE, NOR WILL, BUT ONLY JUDGMENT.
JUST JUDGMENT.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS BRANCH OF
GOVERNMENT TO BE EFFECTIVE.
IT REQUIRES THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE COURT'S
JUDGMENT, AND WHAT MY OPPONENT IS DOING TO FURTHER HER PERSONAL
AND SELFISH AMBITIONS, SHE'S STRIKING THE VERY INTEGRITY OF
THE COURT, THE INSTITUTIONS SHE SAYS AS SHE WANTS TO JOIN.
SO THAT BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN DISGRACEFUL AND DESPICABLE,
AND I'VE CALLED HER OUT.
EVERY TIME SHE'S DONE THIS,
I CALLED HER OUT AND CHALLENGED HER.
WHAT DID-- WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT THAT?
WHAT IS THERE TO SUPPORT THAT?
THE ONLY THING SHE'S EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO IS POINT TO A COUPLE
OF CASES THAT ARE ACTUALLY NOT EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF HER
CLAIM, BUT THERE ARE EVIDENCE THAT SHE'S EITHER LYING OR THAT
SHE'S AN INCOMPETENT JUDGE.
NOW, I DON'T THINK THAT SHE'S AN INCOMPETENT JUDGE,
BUT THE ONLY OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS SHE'S JUST LYING ABOUT IT.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: WE'VE ONLY GOT A LITTLE BIT OF TIME LEFT,
BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU: YOU WERE APPOINTED TO THE COURT AND
YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT GOVERNOR WALKER PUT YOU
THROUGH TO GET THERE, AND YOU'VE NOW CAMPAIGNING FOR THE COURT.
YOU'VE SEEN BOTH THE GOOD AND THE UGLY IN CAMPAIGNING
GIVEN THOSE EXPERIENCES.
IN JUST A FEW SECONDS, ARE ELECTIONS STILL THE BEST WAY TO
CHOOSE WISCONSIN'S SUPREME COURT?
- DANIEL KELLY: NOTWITHSTANDING THE UNPRECEDENTED BAD BEHAVIOR
OF MY OPPONENT, I STILL BELIEVE THE ELECTIONS ARE THE BEST.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THE ONLY
AUTHORITY THAT I EXERCISED AS A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE BELONGS TO
THE PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN.
I USE IT AS A LOAN FROM THEM, ON THEIR BEHALF AND TRUST, AND SO,
I THINK IT'S A VERY HEALTHY AND AN APPROPRIATE THING FOR US TO,
ON A REGULAR BASIS, GO BACK TO THE PEOPLE WHOSE AUTHORITY WE
ARE BORROWING TO GIVE THEM REPORTS OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING
WITH THEIR AUTHORITY AND THEN ALLOW THEM
TO STAND IN JUDGMENT OF US.
AND THAT'S BEEN THAT'S THE PART OF THE CAMPAIGN ACTUALLY THAT
HAS JUST BEEN AN ABSOLUTE JOY.
98.5% OF CAMPAIGNING I LOVE BECAUSE IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT.
IT'S GOING AROUND TO THE FOLKS OF WISCONSIN AND DESCRIBING WHAT
I'VE BEEN DOING WITH THEIR AUTHORITY.
THE ONE AND ONE-HALF PERCENT OF THE CAMPAIGN THAT I DON'T LIKE,
IS MOSTLY MY OPPONENT'S BEHAVIOR.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: WELL, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
WE THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATION.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY, JUSTICE KELLY.
- DANIEL KELLY: THANKS SO MUCH, APPRECIATED.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: THAT CONCLUDES OUR STATE SUPREME COURT
CANDIDATES SPECIAL.
TO OUR STATEWIDE AUDIENCE WATCHING ON PBS WISCONSIN AND
LISTENING TONIGHT ON WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO, STAY TUNED.
"HERE & NOW" GETS YOU UP TO DATE ON COVID-19 FOLLOWING THIS
BROADCAST.
I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.
THANKS FOR JOINING US YOU.
[MUSIC]
- ANNOUNCER: FOR MORE "HERE & NOW" 2020 ELECTION COVERAGE,
GO TO PBSWISCONSIN.ORG AND CLICK ON 'NEWS'.
- ZAC SCHULTZ: ANNOUNCER: FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW"
IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM
AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.