>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON HERE & NOW, CHIEF
JUSTICE PAT ROGGENSACK SAID A
PAY RAISE APPROVED FOR APPOINTED
PUBLIC DEFENDERS IS WELCOME
NEWS.
SHE JOINS US IN A MOMENT.
AND WE'LL LOOK INTO HOW NEW REB
BUDGET PLANS IMPACT THE U.W.
SYSTEM.
IT'S HERE & NOW FOR MAY 31.
>> FUNDING FOR HERE & NOW IS
PROVIDED IN PART BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
>> IN ALL THE STATE BUDGET
ACTION THAT IS MOSTLY ARGUED
ALONG PARTISAN LINES LIKE
FUNDING FOR THE U.W. SYSTEM OR
K-12 OR THE DNR, WITH
TRANSPORTATION YET TO COME, RARE
AGREEMENT ON A MATTER THAT SOME
EXPERTS HAVE SAID WAS BRINGING
THE STATE CLOSE TO A
CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS, THE
FUNDING FOR APPOINTED PUBLIC
DEFENDERS.
THIS WEEK THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE PASSED A BUDGET MEASURE
THAT WOULD HIKE THE PAY FOR
STATE APPOINTED LAWYERS TO $70
AN HOUR FROM THE CURRENT
$40-HOUR RATE.
THEY ALSO INCREASED PAY FOR
DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AND ADDED
POSITIONS T. DID PASS ON PARTY
LINES BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WANTED
THE DEFENDER RATES TO BE DUE TO
INFLATION.
BUT THE LARGER ISSUE IS
SOMETHING ON WHICH BOTH SIDES
CAN AGREE AND THE DEFENDER PAY
INCREASE GOT POSITIVE REACTION
FROM THE HIGHEST COURT OFFICIAL
IN THE STATE, WISCONSIN SUPREME
COURT CHIEF JUSTICE PATIENCE
ROGGENSACK.
IT IS NOT USUAL THAT A CHIEF
JUSTICE WHO WOULD WEIGH IN ON A
BUDGET MATTER BUT IN YOUR MIND,
HOW IMPORTANT IS IT THAT WE
BOOST PAY FOR THE APPOINTED
PUBLIC DEFENDERS?
>> I THINK IT'S CRITICAL.
IT'S CRITICAL IN A COUPLE OF
SENSES.
FIRST FROM A VERY FUNDAMENTAL
BASIS.
WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE
QUALIFIED LAWYERS FOR THOSE WHO
CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR PRIVATE
RATE ATTORNEYS AND WE'VE BEEN
HAVING A VERY HARD TIME FINDING
PEOPLE WHO ARE QUALIFIED THAT
WILL WORK AT $40 AN HOUR.
LAWYERS ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY IN
NORTHWEST PART OF THE STATE AT
ANY HOURLY RATE AND AT $40 AN
HOUR, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO
FIND THEM.
BUT, YOU KNOW, EACH PERSON HAS A
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BE
REPRESENTED BY COMPETENT COUNSEL
WHEN THEY'RE CHARGED WITH A
CRIME.
THERE WAS A PROBLEM HERE.
IN ADDITION, IT'S A MATTER OF
EFFECTIVENESS AND EFFICIENCY FOR
THE COURT IN THAT THE COURT
SYSTEM DOESN'T FUNCTION WELL IF
YOU DON'T HAVE QUALIFIED
ATTORNEYS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
CHARGED WITH A CRIME.
SO I BEGAN TO WORK WITH OTHER
PEOPLE ON THIS AS A PACKAGE,
TALKING TO LEGISLATORS
PRIVATELY, TALKING TO --
ACTUALLY I TALKED TO THE
GOVERNOR BEFORE HE GAVE HIS
STATE OF THE BUDGET ADDRESS AND
HE DID PUT IT IN HIS STATE OF
THE BUDGET ADDRESS.
I WAS VERY PLEASED WITH THAT.
>> NOW, THE $40 RATE WAS SET IN
1995.
WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG TO
ADDRESS THIS?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
I HONEST TO GOODNESS DON'T KNOW.
BUT WHEN IT WAS ASKED IN THE
LAST BUDGET TO RAISE IT AND
NOTHING HAPPENED AND I THOUGHT
AT THAT POINT IN TIME, I'M GOING
TO GET INVOLVED BECAUSE IT
MATTERS TO THE ENTIRE COURT
SYSTEM.
OF COURSE IT MATTERS IN A
CONSTITUTIONAL SENSE TO THE
DEFENDANTS WHO ARE NEEDING
COUNSEL AND COMPETENT COUNSEL
BUT IT MATTERS -- THE SYSTEM
DOES NOT FUNCTION WELL IF YOU
CAN'T BRING SOMEONE CHARGED WITH
A CRIME QUICKLY BEFORE A
MAGISTRATE, THAT'S A PROBLEM.
>> SO THAT'S A PRACTICAL EFFECT
ON THE DEFENDANTS BUT WHAT
EFFECT DID THIS HAVE OR DOES IT
HAVE ON THE SYSTEM ITSELF AND
EVEN THE COUNTIES?
>> I THINK IT HAS A BIG EFFECT
ON BOTH, OKAY?
TO GO TO THE COUNTIES, THE
LEGISLATURE ALSO INCREASED THE
AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THEY GIVE
TO THE COURTS IN THE BUDGET THAT
I SUBMITTED BECAUSE THERE'S AN
AMOUNT OF MONEY WE SIMPLY PASS
THROUGH TO THE COUNTIES AND
THAT'S BECAUSE THE COUNTIES
REALLY ARE OUR PARTNERS.
YOU KNOW, THOSE CIRCUIT COURTS
ARE MAINTAINED.
THEY'RE STATE COURTS BUT
MAINTAINED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH
THE COUNTIES SO BECAUSE WE AS
THE SUPREME COURT HAD UPPED THE
RATE THAT THE COUNTIES HAVE TO
PAY TO $100 AN HOUR, THERE WAS
GOING TO BE A BIG, BIG INCREASE.
NOW WITH THE RATE UP TO $70 AN
HOUR, IT ISN'T GOING TO BE AS
NECESSARY TO TRAVEL TO THE $1 #
-- $100 A RATE.
IT AFFECTS THE FUNCTIONING AND
COUNTIES, TOO.
>> HOW FAR DO YOU THINK THE $30
HIKE WILL GO TO ATTRACT THE
PRIVATE, APPOINTED ATTORNEYS IN
PLACES LIKE YOU'RE SAYING,
NORTHWEST WISCONSIN?
>> YEAH.
YOU KNOW, THE $70 AN HOUR WASN'T
A RABBIT THAT WE PICKED OUT OF A
HAT.
I HAD KELLY THOMPSON COME IN AND
TALK WITH ME ABOUT THIS PROBLEM
WHEN WE DIDN'T GET ANYTHING IN
THE BUDGET LAST GO AROUND AND I
SAID, WHAT WOULD YOU PAY A NEW
ATTORNEY HIRED AS AN IN-STAFF
PERSON IN YOUR OFFICE?
AND SHE TOLD ME AND I SAID,
WELL, IF YOU MONETIZE THE
BENEFITS, WHAT WOULD THE DOLLAR
AN HOUR BE?
IT WAS 70.
THAT'S HOW WE CAME UP WITH THE
$70 AN HOUR FIGURE.
>> AND KELLY THOMPSON IS THE
HEAD OF --
>> SHE IS THE STATE PUBLIC
DEFENDER.
THAT'S RIGHT.
>> SO WOULD YOU HAVE WANTED THIS
INDEX TO INFLATION?
>> THAT'S ALWAYS A GOOD THING
BUT THE LEGISLATURE IS ALWAYS
CHARRY OF BINDING ANOTHER
LEGISLATURE TO SOMETHING THEY
DECIDE TODAY.
I DON'T KNOW OF ANYTHING THAT
THEY'VE INDEXED TO INFLATION.
>> AS YOU'VE SAID, YOU WORKED TO
GET THIS MEASURE PASSED.
WHAT HAS BEEN THE EARLY
REACTION?
>> EARLY REACTION FROM --
>> FROM THE SYSTEM, FROM THE
COURTS, FROM THE JUDGES.
>> I THINK IT'S BEEN VERY, VERY
FAVORABLE.
IT'S NOT PARTISAN AT ALL.
I THINK EVERYBODY REALIZES THE
TIME HAS COME AND SO IT'S MOVED
FORWARD.
WE HAD A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, A
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND THEY
ARE -- I THINK ON ALL SIDES
COMMITTED TO DOING THIS OUT OF
FAIRNESS AND OUT OF A CONCERN
THAT THE COURTS FUNCTION FAIRLY
FOR ALL THE PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN.
>> CHIEF JUSTICE PAT ROGGENSACK,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.
>> IN OTHER BUDGET NEWS, LEADERS
DECIDEDLY LESS PLEASED, THE
REPUBLICAN MAJORITY REDUCED A
PROPOSED FUNDING INCREASE AND
CONTINUED A TUITION FREEZE FOR
THE UW SYSTEM.
THAT WOULD GIVE THE SYSTEM $58
MILLION, LESS THAN HALF WHAT THE
GOVERNOR PROPOSED.
AND $45 MILLION WOULD ONLY BE
RELEASED IF THE LEGISLATURE
APPROVES
APPROVES.
JOINT FINANCE COMMITTEE
CO-CHAIR, REPRESENTATIVE JOHN
NYGREN, MADE THE CASE.
>> THERE ARE ALWAYS BE A DESIRE
FROM SOME TO SPEND MORE AND
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN
OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO HAVE THOSE
CONVERSATIONS.
FUT -- BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST,
THERE ARE EXPECTATIONS THAT HAVE
TO BE BUILT INTO ANY RESOURCES
WE PROVIDE FOR, ANY TAXPAYER
FUNDED ENTITY HERE IN OUR STATE.
IT'S MY HOPE THAT THIS MOTION,
THAT THOSE CONVERSATIONS DO TAKE
PLACE AND AT THE END OF THE DAY,
THE UW SYSTEM IS STRONGER
BECAUSE OF IT.
>> UW SYSTEM PRESIDENT RAY CROSS
SAID THE VOTE FELT LIKE A KICK
IN THE SHIN SAYING, QUOTE,
TODAY'S VOTE WAS A MISSED
OPPORTUNITY AND SHORT SIDED.
UW SYSTEM IS THE BEST INVESTMENT
THE STATE CAN MAKE TO ATTRACT
AND RETAIN TALENT.
THE UW SYSTEM BUDGET IS
REASONABLE, SPECIFIC AND
RESPONDS TO WORK FORCE NEEDS.
WE NEED AT LEAST $60 MILLION TO
KEEP UP WITH THE INFLATION
ALONE.
THE MOTION WOULD PROVIDE $45
MILLION WITH SIGNIFICANT STRINGS
ATTACHED.
BY NOT ADDRESSING THESE
FINANCIAL CHALLENGES, WE ARE
SEVERELY HAM STRUNG IN OUR
ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO GROW
VITAL PROGRAMS AND HIGH NEED
FIELDS THAT THE PEOPLE OF
WISCONSIN EXPECT AND DEMAND.
BEFORE WE INTRODUCE OUR NEXT
GUEST, WE SHOULD MENTION
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION IS
PART OF UW MADISON.
FACULTY ARE WEIGHING IN ON THE
BUDGET ACTION FOR THE UW.
EFFECTIVELY ORGANIZATION CALLED
PROFS AGREES WITH CROSS SAYING
IT WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY TO
REINVEST IN THE UW SYSTEM.
CHEMISTRY PROFESSOR JUDITH
BURSTYN JOINS US NOW.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME.
>> THE MESSAGE FROM REPUBLICAN
BUDGET WRITERS SEEMS TO BE THAT
THE ECONOMY IS BOOMING, TUITION
REVENUE FROM OUT OF STATE
STUDENTS AND GRAD STUDENTS IS UP
AND THE LAST STATE BUDGET
PROVIDED A REALLY HEALTHY BOOST
IN FUNDING.
HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
>> SO THE FACULTY MEMBERS WORK
ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE UW
SYSTEM.
WE KNOW FIRST HAND THAT IN ORDER
TO CONTINUE TO ADDRESS THE NEEDS
OF OUR STUDENTS AND DRIVE OUR
STATE'S ECONOMY, WE NEED GREATER
INVESTMENT FROM THE STATE.
AND AS CHAIR OF A MAJOR
DEPARTMENT AT UW MADISON, I DEAL
ON A DAILY BASIS WITH THE
REALITIES OF A COMPETITIVE
MARKETPLACE.
OUR COMPETITORS KNOW THAT
WISCONSIN HAS HAD AN ISSUE WITH
THE STATE NOT SUPPORTING OUR
UNIVERSITY AND OUR FACULTY ARE
TARGETS.
>> SO YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT
THERE IS A RETENTION PROBLEM FOR
POTENTIALLY THE BEST AND THE
BRIGHTEST HERE AT THE
UNIVERSITY?
>> THERE HAS BEEN AND THERE
CONTINUES TO BE A SIGNIFICANT
RETENTION PROBLEM.
>> BECAUSE I KNOW THAT ON JOINT
FINANCE, JOHN NYGREN, THE
CO-CHAIR WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW
DEMOCRATS SAY THAT THE
UNIVERSITY HAS BEEN CUT MORE
THAN A BILLION DOLLARS SINCE
2011.
JOHN NYGREN SAID YES, BUT
THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE IT UP
BECAUSE OF THE, QUOTE, TOOLS OF
ACT TEN WHEREBY STAFF HAS HAD TO
CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE HEALTH
CARE AND THEIR PENSION FUNDS.
HE SAID THAT BASICALLY IT EVENS
OUT BUT YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT
ACT TEN ALSO STILL HAS SOME
ISSUES FOR FACULTY DECIDING TO
LEAVE.
>> THERE HAS BEEN A HISTORY AT
UW MADISON, OUR SALARIES HAVE
ALWAYS BEEN BELOW THOSE OF PEER,
COMPARABLE INSTITUTIONS TO UW
MADISON.
BUT THE REALITY WAS THAT
BECAUSE OF OUR GOOD STATE
BENEFITS PACKAGE, WE WOULD ARGUE
THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE PIECES.
AND THAT BENEFITS PACKAGE HAS
BEEN ERODED.
THOSE RESOURCES NEVER REALLY
BECAME AVAILABLE FOR THE
UNIVERSITY TO USE BECAUSE THEY
HAD BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH FRINGES
AND IT'S JUST COMING OUT OF THE
POCKETS OF THE FACULTY AND THE
STAFF AT THE UNIVERSITIES.
>> IN TERMS OF STUDENTS, WHAT
DOES YOUR ORGANIZATION BELIEVE
WILL BE THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF
BUDGET IF IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IN
ITS FINAL FORM?
>> SO IN PREPARING FOR THE
CURRENT BUDGET DEBATE, UW SYSTEM
WORKED VERY HARD TO DEVELOP A
REASONABLE BUDGET PROPOSAL THAT
FOCUSED ON STUDENT SUCCESS AND
MAKING IT EASIER FOR STUDENTS TO
GET INTO STEM AND OTHER HIGH
DEMAND FIELDS.
THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET WAS VERY
SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PROPOSED BUT
THEN ALSO WENT A STEP FURTHER
AND FUNDED THE FREEZE, THAT IS,
DIDN'T JUST FREEZE TUITION BUT
ALSO PAID FOR THE REVENUE THAT
WOULD HAVE BEEN LOST.
UNIVERSITIES DON'T HAVE MANY
SOURCES OF REVENUE.
OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS HAVE AS
THEIR RESOURCES TUITION DOLLARS
AND STATE DOLLARS AND THAT'S
WHAT FUNDS OUR EDUCATIONAL
MISSION
>> HOW BAD IN YOUR MIND FROM
YOUR ORGANIZATION'S PERSPECTIVE
IS THIS?
>> THE SITUATION FOR UW SYSTEM
AND UW MADISON IS THAT WE'VE
SUSTAINED MANY YEARS OF TUITION
FREEZE AND BUDGET CUT AND
ALTHOUGH LAST BIENNIUM THERE WAS
A SMALL INCREASE, IT DIDN'T
COVER THE INFLATIONARY COSTS AND
THE LOSS OF THIS FUNDING FOR THE
TUITION FREEZE ESSENTIALLY IS A
BUDGET CUT AGAIN TO THE
UNIVERSITY BECAUSE THESE ARE
INFLATIONARY COSTS AND THEY'RE
NOT COVERED.
IT MEANS THAT STUDENT ACCESS,
STUDENT SUPPORT IS NOT GOING TO
BE FUNDED.
>> ANOTHER MATTER WAS THE
FUNDING OF A 2% PAY INCREASE FOR
STAFF AND FACULTY BUT FUNDED
ONLY 70%.
THEN WHAT HAPPENS?
>> WELL, THAT MEANS THAT THE
ADDITIONAL 30% IS GOING TO COME
OUT OF OTHER PROGRAMS IN THE
UNIVERSITY.
THERE'S RELATIVE LITTLE FLEXIBLE
DOLLARS WITHIN THE UNIVERSITY.
IT'S PRIMARILY DRIVEN TOWARDS
THE EDUCATIONAL MISSION AND THAT
MEANS THE FUNDS ARE MORE LIKELY
THAN NOT TO COME OUFT THE
EDUCATIONAL MISSION OF THE
INSTITUTIONS.
>> AND WHAT DO YOU AND FACULTY
MEMBERS OF YOUR GROUP THINK
ABOUT THE FACT THAT MOST OF THE
INCREASE APPROVED BY JOINT
FINANCE, THAT BEING $45 MILLION,
WOULD ONLY BE RELEASED WITH THE
LEGISLATURE'S APPROVAL?
>> THE PEOPLE MAKING IT WHO ARE
BEST SUITED TO MAKE THE
DECISIONS FOR UW SYSTEM ARE THE
BOARD OF REGENTS AND THE
LEADERSHIP OF THE UW SYSTEM
INSTITUTIONS.
AND I DON'T SEE ANY COMPELLING
REASON FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO
MICRO MANAGE THOSE DECISIONS.
I WOULD ALSO COMMENT THAT OUR
GOVERNOR HAS BROAD EXPERIENCE IN
EDUCATION.
HE UNDERSTANDS HOW TO DELIVER
EFFECTIVE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE VALUE OF
EDUCATION AND ALSO THE EXPERTISE
OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO LAID
THESE INSTITUTIONS AND I WOULD
TRUST THEM TO DO THE WORK THEY
NEED TO DO.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
PROFESSOR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR JOINING US.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> AS FOR STATE BUDGET AGZ ON
CLEAN WATER REGULATION,
REPUBLICANS ON JOINT FINANCE
APPROVED TWO OF THE FIVE
SCIENTISTS' POSITIONS REQUESTED.
BUT CUT MORE THAN $40 MILLION
FROM PROGRAMS THE GOVERNOR HAD
PROPOSED TOWARD REDUCING WATER
POLLUTION.
THE BUDGET COMMITTEE POSTPONED A
VOTE ON A PROPOSAL TO INCREASE
FEES ON CONCENTRATED ANIMAL
FEEDING OPERATIONS WHICH CONSIST
OF FORMS WITH MORE THAN 1,000
ANIMALS LIKE LARGE DAIRY PRAGUES
OPERATIONS.
EXECUTIVE BOARD WOULD INCREASE
FEES TO $5,910 FOR FIVE-YEAR
PERMITS.
THAT'S UP FROM $1,725 CURRENTLY.
THE EXTRA FEES WOULD GO TO PAY
FOR DNR REGULATION AND
ENFORCEMENT OF DRINKING WATER
FROM POLLUTION.
CINDY LEITNER IS PRESIDENT OF
THE WISCONSIN DAIRY ALLIANCE.
SHE JOINS US FROM FOND DU LAC.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO AGAIN, YOUR GROUP LOBBIED
AGAINST THE INCREASE IN PERMIT
FEES.
WHY?
>> WELL, WE WOULD LIKE TO LOOK
AT WHY IT'S NEEDED.
THE PERMIT FEES ACTUALLY ARE NOT
VERY GOOD FOR OUR FARMS.
WE'RE STRUGGLING IN THIS
INDUSTRY, WHETHER IT'S A KFO OR
WHETHER IT'S A SMALL FARM, FIVE
YEARS OF BAD MILK PRICES, EXPORT
ISSUES OF THIS YEAR, WE'RE ALL
STRUGGLING.
WE'RE STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE.
ADDED FEES AREN'T GOING TO HELP.
WHAT ARE THE ADDED FEES USED
FOR?
LET'S LOOK AT THE POSITIONS.
ARE THEY NEEDED?
DO WE NEED TO HAVE MORE
POSITIONS?
WE HAVE 14 POSITIONS IN FIELD
POSITIONS IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN.
WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 305 IN THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN.
THAT INCLUDES PIGS AND CHICKENS
AND GOATS AND OTHER KFO'S, 274
ARE DAIRY.
THAT WOULD MEAN IN A FIVE-YEAR
PERIOD, EACH ONE OF THOSE 14
PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING OUT TO THE
DAIRIES IS REQUIRED BY LAW TO
MAKE ONE VISIT EVERY 10 1/2
WEEKS FOR PERMIT RENEWAL.
THAT LEAVES QUITE A BIT OF OTHER
TIME FOR THEM TO COME AND VISIT
FARMS.
QUITE A BIT OF OTHER TIME FOR
ENFORCEMENT.
IN FACT, THAT PROBABLY LEAVES
THEM HALF THEIR TIME A YEAR, AT
LEAST ONCE A MONTH THEY SHOULD
BE ON THE FARM TALKING TO THE
DAIRY PERSON OR TALKING TO
SOMEBODY ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE
DOING, HOW THEY'RE DOING IT, HOW
THEY CAN DO IT BETTER AND
BUILDING A RELATIONSHIP SO THAT
WE'RE ALL LOOKING TOWARDS NO
DISCHARGE IN WATER.
>> SO FOR 305KFO'S YOU BELIEVE
IS ADEQUATE.
>> YES.
THE PERMIT REQUIREMENT IS ONLY
ONCE EVERY FIVE YEARS SO IT'S
MANDATORY FOR THEM TO GO ONCE
EVERY FIVE YEARS TO THESE FARMS.
THAT'S A THREE TO FIVE HOUR
VISIT AND THEN THEY HAVE TO
WRITE SOMETHING UP.
BEYOND THAT, THEY CAN GO ANY
TIME THEY WANT.
THEY CAN GO TO THE FARM ANY TIME
THEY WANT AND VISIT WITH THE
PEOPLE.
SO THAT'S THE FIELD POSITIONS.
THEY ALSO HAVE EIGHT POSITIONS
IN HOUSE SO -- AND I'VE GOTTEN
MIXED SIGNALS FROM PEOPLE IN
MADISON AND TALKING TO THEM.
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ENFORCEMENT
POSITIONS?
OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT PERMIT
POSITIONS FOR UPPING THE
PERMITTING TIME AND RENEWING THE
PERMITS FASTER?
I'M NOT SURE WHICH THEY'RE GOING
FOR.
>> YOU BELIEVE, AGAIN, THAT IN
APPROXIMATELY $1,000 A YEAR
PERMIT FEE IS ONEROUS EVEN FOR
THE LARGEST OF THE DAIRY
OPERATIONS?
>> NOBODY HAS ESCAPED THE MILK
PRICES.
FIVE YEARS OF THIS.
FIVE YEARS AND WE CAN'T MILK OUR
WAY OUT OF IT.
WE CAN'T PRODUCE MORE MILK SO
THAT WE HAVE MORE MONEY.
YET, OUR INPUT COSTS, THE COST
OF DOING BUSINESS HAS GONE UP.
AND THAT'S FOR EVERY SINGLE
DAIRY AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE
LOSING SO MANY DAIRIES.
WE'RE LOSING BIG DAIRIES ALSO IN
WISCONSIN.
WE'RE NOT JUST LOSING SMALL
DAIRIES.
WE'RE LOSING ALL DAIRIES AND
THIS IS $43 BILLION OF OUR
ECONOMY.
WE PRODUCE IN THE DAIRY
INDUSTRY, $82,500 A MINUTE.
WE HAVE PEOPLE LEAVING OUR STATE
BECAUSE IT'S TOO HARD TO WORK
HERE AS A DAIRY.
>> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH THE
REGULATIONS FOR CAFO TO COMPLY
WITH WATER LUGS POLLUTION ARE
ONEROUS?
>> WE BELIEVE IT'S FINE AND WE
ARE WORKING WITH THEM AND THE
DNR.
WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR RELEASE OF
REGULATIONS.
WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR LESS
REGULATIONS.
WHAT WE LIKE TO DO IS WORK WITH
THE DNR.
WE'VE MET WITH TODD AMES AND WE
WOULD LIKE -- WE BELIEVE THAT
BECAUSE WE ARE A ZERO DISCHARGE
BY OUR WPD S PERMIT, WE'RE
REQUIRED NOT TO DISCHARGE, NO
POOP IN THE WATER.
WE HAVE A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE OF
HOW TO DO THIS AND WE CAN HELP.
WE CAN HELP IN ALL ASPECTS.
BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE
PROBLEM.
SO WE HAVE 7800 FARMS
APPROXIMATELY IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN.
274 ARE DAIRY FARMS THAT ARE
COFO'S.
WE HAVE 1.3 MILLION COWS IN THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN.
300,000 ARE CAFO'S.
YET WE PRODUCE 40% OF THE MILK.
LET'S GET RID OF THE CAFO'S.
HAVE WE SOLVED OUR PROBLEM?
WE HAVEN'T.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY ASPECT.
WE HAVE TO WORK WITH SENATOR
NOVAK AND THE WATER QUALITY TASK
FORCE.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT
REGIONS, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
WATER SHEDS, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
MUNICIPALITIES, WE HAVE TO LOOK
AT HOMEOWNERS.
YOU KNOW, WITH FERTILIZER.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING
AND WE'RE HERE TO HELP THEM DO
THAT.
>> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH THEN
THAT CAFO'S ARE CATCHING THE
BLAME FOR WATER POLLUTION IN THE
STATE?
>> I THINK THEY'RE CATCHING THE
MAJORITY OF THE BLAME AND, YOU
KNOW, IT'S OKAY TO ASSIGN BLAME
WHERE SOMEONE HAS DONE SOMETHING
WRONG AND YOU CAN PROVE THEY'VE
DONE SOMETHING WRONG BUT FOR
INSTANCE, LOOK AT -- LET'S LOOK
AT DATA UP IN KEWAUNEE COUNTY.
KEWAUNEE COUNTY HAS BEEN IN ALL
KINDS OF NEWS AND YET THEY STILL
ARE NUMBER TWO IN TOURISM
DOLLARS IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN TWO YEARS IN A ROW SO
THERE'S SOMETHING GOOD HAPPENING
IN KEWAUNEE COUNTY.
IN HIS RESEARCH, HE SAID THAT
50% OF WHAT THEY FOUND IN THE
WELLS CAME FROM BOVINE AND 50%
HUMANS.
THERE ARE MORE COWS THAN HUMANS.
THAT MEANS THERE'S 210 -- IT'S A
210-1 RATIO IN BOVINE WASTE TO
HUMAN WASTE.
IF WE GOT RID OF ALL THE COWS,
WOULD WE HAVE SOLVED OUR PROBLEM
IN KEWAUNEE COUNTY?
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
>> WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
EVERYTHING.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
POINT TAKEN.
CINDY LEITNER, THANKS VERY MUCH
FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> CONCENTRATED ANIMAL FEEDING
OPERATIONS ARE BIG BUSINESS IN
WISCONSIN.
FOR THEIR PART, ENVIRONMENTAL
ORGANIZATIONS CALL FOR HIGHER
FEES AND MORE OVERSIGHT ON CAFO
BUSINESSES, INCLUDING GROUPS
LIKE WISCONSIN'S GREEN FIRE, A
GROUP OF CONSERVATION
PROFESSIONALS, INCLUDING FORMER
DNR EMPLOYEES.
GREEN FIRE'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
IS FRED CLARK WHO IS ALSO ON THE
DNR BOARD.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
>> GREAT.
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO JUST TO ASK YOU FIRST,
WHAT ARE THE ENVIRONMENTAL
IMPACTS IN WISCONSIN OF CAFO'S?
>> WELL, CAFO ALONG WITH OTHER
DAIRY OPERATIONS ARE A SOURCE OF
-- URNT -- UNFORTUNATELY,
THEY'RE A SOURCE OF POLLUTION IN
THE WATER SUPPLIES.
PRIMARY PATHWAY IS ANIMAL MANURE
THAT GOES ON THE FARM FIELDS AND
LEAVES THOSE FIELDS THROUGH
LEECHING AND MAKES ITS WAY IN
WATER BODIES.
WE'RE TALKING WITH PHOSPHORUS,
NITRATES AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
FECAL BACTERIA THAT CAN CAUSE
HUMAN ILLNESS.
>> OUR LAST GUEST SUGGESTED IN
KEWAUNEE COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE,
IT'S HALF ANIMAL MANURE AND HALF
HUMAN SEWAGE AND THE ANSWER IS
NOT TO GET RID OF CAFO'S OR
ANIMAL OPERATIONS.
>> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WANTS
TO SEE US GET RID OF DAIRY IN
THE DAIRY STATE.
IN RURAL AREAS ESPECIALLY, WE
KNOW THAT UNFORTUNATELY,
AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS ARE THE
BIGGEST CONTRIBUTING FACTOR
TOWARD RURAL WATER CONTAMINATION
AND WELL CONTAMINATION.
>> HOW WELL ARE THEY BEING
REGULATED?
>> WELL, WITH THE LARGE CAFO
PROGRAM, THERE ARE A FAIRLY
COMPLETE SET OF REGULATIONS THAT
BOTH THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL
RESOURCES AND DEPARTMENT OF
AGRICULTURE CONSUMER PROTECTION
ENFORCE AND CAFO'S PAY A
RELATIVELY SMALL FEE FOR THE
REGULATION UNDER THE CLEAN WATER
ACT THAT WISCONSIN EXERCISES.
>> SO WOULD INCREASING THE FEES
FOR THESE PERMITS, FOR THE
CAFO'S HELP THE DNR AND OTHER
AGENCIES KEEP UP WITH REGULATION
AND ENFORCEMENT?
>> I THINK THE THING TO KEEP IN
MIND RIGHT NOW IS THAT THE TOTAL
COST TO THE DNR OF THE CAFO
OVERSIGHT PROGRAM IS SOMETHING
OVER $2 MILLION.
THE FEES THAT LARGE CAFO'S PAY
IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 5% OF THAT
TOTAL COST.
SO UNLIKE MANY OTHER REGULATED
ENTITIES IN WISCONSIN THAT ARE
CARRYING ALL THE OVERSIGHT COSTS
THROUH THE PERMIT FEES AND
DAIRY AGRICULTURE, WE'VE CHOSEN
NOT TO DO THAT.
THE INCREASE THAT'S BEEN
PROPOSED WOULD STILL ONLY BE A
FRACTION OF WHAT TAXPAYERS ARE
PICKING UP IN ORDER TO FUND THE
POSITIONS IN DNR THAT OVERSEE
THOSE OPERATIONS.
>> SO IT'S YOUR SENSE THAT THAT
KIND OF INCREASE IN THOSE
PERMITTING FEES WOULD NOT BE HON
ONEROUS FOR THESE LARGE
OPERATIONS?
>> I'M A FORMER BUSINESS OWNER
MYSELF AND I APPRECIATE COSTS
ARE ALWAYS A FACTOR.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE AVERAGE LARGE
CAFO, DAIRY CAFO IN WISCONSIN,
THAT OPERATION PROBABLY HAS
ABOUT 2,000 ANIMALS.
MOST OF THOSE OPERATIONS ARE
SELLING SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 5
MILLION AND 10 MILLION DOLLARS'
WORTH OF MILK EVERY YEAR.
THESE ARE VERY LARGE BUSINESSES.
THEY'RE FACING STRUGGLES IN THIS
ECONOMY.
ABSOLUTELY.
BUT THE PERMIT FEE IS THE
SMALLEST OF ANY OF THE
SURROUNDING STATES THAT ALSO
REGULATE DAIRY OPERATIONS IN
WISCONSIN.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN
YOU SAW THAT THE JOINT FINANCE
COMMITTEE POSTPONED ACTION ON
THIS?
>> WELL, I'M ENCOURAGED THAT
LEGISLATORS AND POLICY MAKERS
ARE RECOGNIZING THE WATER
QUALITY PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THE
STATE.
PROBABLY TO A DEGREE WE'VE NEVER
SEEN BEFORE.
SO THEY'RE -- I UNDERSTAND THAT
THEY'LL TAKE THAT UP AGAIN IN A
FUTURE SESSION.
WE HOPE THAT THE EMPHASIS ON,
YOU KNOW, PROVIDING ENOUGH
OVERSIGHT IN THOSE PROGRAMS WILL
STILL BE THERE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK
IS REGULATION IMPORTANT?
ABSOLUTELY.
BUT REGULATION ALONE ISN'T GOING
TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM WE HAVE
RIGHT NOW WITH OUR FARM ECONOMY
AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS
THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
FARMERS CAN BE PART OF THAT
SOLUTION AND MANY CASES THEY
ARE.
AND WE NEED CONSUMERS TO
UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN THEY BUY
DAIRY PRODUCTS, THEY NEED TO BE
ASSURED THAT THE SOIL AND WATER
QUALITY ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE
FARM OPERATIONS IS HIGH.
OTHERWISE, WE LOSE THE INTEGRITY
OF OUR BRAND HERE IN WISCONSIN
AND WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LET THAT
HAPPEN.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
FRED CLARK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> TURNING NOW TO THE 2020
SPRING ELECTION WITH A NEW
CANDIDATE HAS ENTERED THE RACE
FOR STATE SUPREME COURT.
>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE --
>> JUSTIN DANIEL KELLY WILL BE
SEEKING A FULL 10-YEAR TERM NEXT
APRIL.
HE WAS APPOINTED TO THE BENCH IN
2016 AND IS CONSIDERED PART OF
THE COURT'S FOUR SEAT
CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY.
HE JOINS TWO OUR CANDIDATES
VYING FOR THE SEAT, DANE COUNTY
JUDGE KOROSKI AND MARQUETTE LAW
PROFESSOR, ED FALLONE, BOTH
EXPECTED TO RECEIVE LIBERAL
BACKING.
A FEBRUARY PRIMARY WILL NARROW
THE FIELD TO TWO CANDIDATES WHO
WILL FACE IECH OTHER THE SAME
DAY AS THE APRIL PRESIDENTIAL
PRIMARY.
AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR
TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR HERE & NOW IS
PROVIDED IN PART BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.