>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART
OF OUR "HERE AND NOW" 2018
WISCONSIN VOTE ELECTION
COVERAGE.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT, ON "HERE AND NOW," THE
STATE SUPREME COURT HEARS WHY
APPOINTED PUBLIC DEFENDERS NEED
A RAISE.
CWD PRIONS ARE DISCOVERED IN THE
STATE'S SOIL.
A NEW SURVEY SHOWS WISCONSIN IS
THE HARDEST-DRINKING STATE IN
THE NATION.
AND HOW GENDER MAY IMPACT THE
RESULTS OF THE FALL ELECTIONS.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR MAY 18.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
>> IN OUR FIRST LOOK TONIGHT,
WISCONSIN PAYS APPOINTED PUBLIC
DEFENDERS THE LOWEST RATE IN THE
NATION, AT $40 AN HOUR.
THIS WEEK, ATTORNEYS AND JUDGES
ACROSS THE STATE TOLD THE
WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT THE LOW
PAY HAS CREATED A CONSTITUTIONAL
CRISIS,.
IN SOME CASES INDIGENT
DEFENDANTS ARE SITTING IN JAIL
BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE TO
REPRESENT THEM.
THE SIXTH AMENDMENT TO THE U.S.
CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THE RIGHT
TO ALL COUNSEL IN CRIMINAL
PROSECUTIONS.
LAWYERS PETITIONED THE COURT TO
RAISE THE RATE FOR
COURT-APPOINTED LAWYERS TO $100
AN HOUR, HOPING TO MATCH THAT
RATE FOR PRIVATE ATTORNEYS DOING
PUBLIC DEFENDER WORK.
AFTER THE HEARING THE HIGH COURT
APPROVED RAISING THE RATE TO
$100 PER HOUR.
ONE OF THE CO-AUTHORS OF THE
PETITION, MILWAUKEE ATTORNEY
MICHAEL BIRDSALL, TOLD THE
JUSTICES IT IS WITHIN THEIR
AUTHORITY TO SAVE THE SYSTEM.
HE JOINS US FROM MILWAUKEE AND
THANKS FOR DOING SO.
>> THANK YOU.
>> SO WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO
THE COURT DID DECIDE TO RAISE
THE RATE FOR COURT-APPOINTED
ATTORNEYS?
>> WELL, IT'S A PARTIAL VICTORY.
IT WASN'T EVERYTHING WE ASKED
FOR.
WE ASKED SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT,
BUT IN ADDITION WE WANTED THE
COURT TO MAKE A FINDING THAT
ANYTHING BELOW THAT $100 RATE
FOR THE SUPREME COURT RULE WOULD
BE UNREASONABLE AND SPECIFICALLY
ADDRESSING THE STATUTORY RATE
THAT THE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S
OFFICE IS REQUIRED TO PAY
ATTORNEYS, WHICH IS $40 AN HOUR.
>> WHY IS THAT STATUTORY RATE SO
LOW?
>> WELL, IT WAS SET IN 1977,
WHEN THEY CREATED THE AGENCY,
THE PUBLIC DEFENDER AGENCY, AND
THEY MOVED IT FROM THE SUPREME
COURT OVER TO THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH AND THEY SET IT AT $35 AN
HOUR IN 1977.
IF YOU EXTRAPOLATE THAT TO
TODAY'S DOLLARS, THAT'S ALMOST
$200 AN HOUR.
SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS
SOMETHING TO BASICALLY TRACK
INFLATION.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHEN THEY
HIRE PUBLIC DEFENDERS,
COURT-APPOINTED PUBLIC
DEFENDERS, THEY PAY $140 AN
HOUR.
AND MOST STATES ARE IN THE
EITHER CLOSE TO $100 OR AROUND
THE $90 LEVEL.
SO WISCONSIN IS LITERALLY THE
LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY.
>> WHAT HAS THAT MEANT FOR
INDIGENT DEFENDANTS, WHEN PUBLIC
DEFENDERS HAVE TO APPOINT
PRIVATE LAWYERS BECAUSE OF
CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR OTHER
INABILITY TO REPRESENT THEM?
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, 40% OF
ALL THE SPD CASES ARE HANDLED BY
ASSIGNED COUNSEL IN WISCONSIN.
THAT'S 58,000 CASES A YEAR.
SO WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE $40 AN
HOUR RATE IS THAT A LOT OF
ATTORNEYS ARE DECLINING TO TAKE
THESE CASES ANYMORE AND IT'S
THROWING THE SYSTEM INTO
DISARRAY ALL OVER THE STATE.
AND THAT INCLUDES UP IN RURAL
AREAS, UP IN THE BAYFIELD,
ASHLAND AREA, DOWN IN LA CROSSE,
UP IN MARATHON, EVEN IN
MILWAUKEE, WHERE THEY CAN'T FIND
PEOPLE FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS AND
MONTHS AND MONTHS AND PEOPLE SIT
IN JAIL AND VICTIMS HAVE TO KEEP
COMING BACK TO COURT.
THE COUNTY, OF COURSE, HAS TO
HOUSE THE PEOPLE IN THE JAIL.
PEOPLE LOSE THEIR JOBS.
IT'S REALLY REACHING NOT JUST A
CRISIS LEVEL CONSTITUTIONALLY,
BUT A SYSTEMIC BREAKDOWN IS
IMPENDING IN WISCONSIN WITH.
>> NOW, JUSTICES WHO HEARD YOUR
PETITION AGREED THAT THE RATE IS
ABYSMAL, BUT SEEMED RELUCK TAPT RELUCTANT TO
LEGISLATE OR BUDGET FROM THE
BENCH.
WHAT ABOUT THAT CONCERN ON THEIR
PART?
>> WELL, MY ARGUMENT TO THE
COURT -- AND I UNDERSTAND THE
VIEW THAT WE HAVE A SEPARATION
OF POWERS DOCTRINE AND THEY
DON'T WANT TO IMPOSE THEIR WILL
ON THE LEGISLATURE.
BUT MY ARGUMENT, AT LEAST, TO
THEM WAS THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE A
SHARED AUTHORITY DOCTRINE IN
WISCONSIN.
SO IN THE AREA OF JUDICIAL COURT
APPOINTMENTS -- AND THE COURT
RECOGNIZED THAT IN 1995 IN A
MAJOR DECISION THAT THEY HANDED
DOWN.
AND I REMINDED THEM OF THAT,
THAT WE HAVE A LESS OF A
SEPARATION OF POWERS ISSUE
RATHER -- IN WISCONSIN.
RATHER, A COORDINATED POWERS
ISSUE IN WISCONSIN.
SO WHAT -- THE BOTTOM LINE IS
THAT THE COURT IS ULTIMATELY
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE EFFECTIVE
AND EFFICIENT OPERATION OF THE
COURT SYSTEM.
AND WITH THE LEGISLATURE
LITERALLY BLEEGD BLEEDING OUT THE
PUBLIC DEFENSE SYSTEM, THEY'RE
MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE.
SO AT $40 AN HOUR, THE
LEGISLATURE IS BASICALLY TAKEN
AWAY A LARGE TOOL THAT THE COURT
NEEDS TO RUN THE COURT SYSTEM.
>> SO IF THE COURT, HOWEVER, DID
RULE THAT THEY WILL RAISE THE
RATE FOR ALL OTHER KIND OF
COURT-APPOINTED LAWYERS, DOES
THAT BODE WELL, IN YOUR MIND,
FOR THIS NEXT PIECE THAT YOU AND
OTHERS ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT,
THAT BEING THE APPOINTED PUBLIC
DEFENDER RATE OF PAY?
>> WELL, IF I HAD TO PREDICT,
THE COST OF THE NEW $100 AN HOUR
RATE IS GOING TO FALL ON THE
COUNTIES, WHICH THEY'RE GOING TO
VIEW AS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE.
SO IN ESSENCE THE COURT IS
DIRECTING THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS
AND THEY'RE JUST PLACING IT ON
COUNTIES RATHER THAN ON STATE
TAXPAYERS.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THOUGH,
SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE TO
RAISE THAT RATE TO AVOID THE
SYSTEM LITERALLY SHUTTING DOWN.
AND I THINK THAT THE COUNTIES
ARE NOW GOING TO BE COMING TO
THE LEGISLATURE AND SAYING YOU
HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE
BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD TO FUND
THIS WHEN IT'S REALLY THE
STATE'S RESPONSIBILITY.
THAT'S WHAT I THINK'S GOING TO
HAPPEN.
>> AND THE COST, I UNDERSTAND
IT, OF THIS RAISING THE RATE FOR
COURT-APPOINTED ATTORNEYS WOULD
BE $32 MILLION IS YEAR?
>> APPROXIMATELY, YES.
>> AND WHO ARE THESE
COURT-APPOINTED ATTORNEYS
COMPARED TO THE PUBLIC
DEFENDER-APPOINTED ATTORNEYS?
>> WELL, THEY'RE OFTENTIMES THE
SAME PEOPLE.
BUT THE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE
INTERVIEWS EVERYBODY WHO'S
ACCUSED OF A CRIME WHO CLAIMS TO
BE INDIGENT.
AND SO EITHER -- AND 60% OF
THOSE CASES ARE HANDLED BY STAFF
PUBLIC DEFENDERS AS PART OF THE
AGENCY.
THE REST ARE SENT TO PRIVATE BAR
LAWYERS.
IF -- TWO ISSUES HAVE TO BE
ADDRESSED.
ONE IS IF THE PERSON DOESN'T
QUALIFY FOR A PUBLIC DEFENDER
APPOINTMENT, THEN -- AND THEY'RE
STILL TOO POOR TO AFFORD A
LAWYER, THEN THE COURT WILL
APPOINT ONE AT THE NEW RATE.
OR IN SOME OF THESE COUNTIES
THAT ARE HAVING THE DIRE NEEDS
UP NORTH IN PARTICULAR,
ATTORNEYS WILL REFUSE TO DO
PUBLIC DEFENDER APPOINTMENTS.
THEY'LL WAIT FOR THE COURT TO
APPOINT THEM AT THE HIGHER RATE,
WHICH JUST MAKES ECONOMIC SENSE.
>> YEAH.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
BUT THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
EXPLANATION AND FOR GIVING US
THE NEWS THAT THE STATE SUPREME
COURT ACTUALLY DID RULE TO RAISE
THE $70 RATE.
JOHN BIRDSALL OUT OF MILWAUKEE,
THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> WAS IT JUST HILLARY OR ARE
VOTERS ACTUALLY BIASED GENGS
FEMALE PRESIDENTIAL CANNED CANDIDATES?
WHAT ABOUT BIAS FOR WOMEN
RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR?
THE ELECTION RESEARCH CENTER AT
UW-MADISON HAS SOME ANSWERS
AFTER CONDUCTING SURVEYS TO FIND
OUT.
POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AND
DIRECTOR BARRY BURDEN IS HERE.
>> GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> SO AS TO THAT QUESTION, WAS
IT JUST HILLARY OR WHAT DID YOUR
RESEARCH SHOW ABOUT WOMEN
RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?
>> IT WAS NOT HILLARY.
SHE HAD SOME PARTICULAR
ATTRIBUTES THAT MAY HAVE HELPED
OR HURT HER.
BUT WE FOUND IN A NATIONAL
EXPERIMENT THAT WE DID IN A
NATIONAL SURVEY THAT FEMALE
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES SUFFER A
BIAS OF ABOUT TWO PERCENTAGE
POINTS.
THEY'RE LIKELY TO GET THAT MUCH
LESS OF THE VOTE THAN MEN WHO
ARE EQUALLY QUALIFIED.
>> AND WHY?
>> THAT WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE
ABOUT.
WE HAVE SOME CLUES BY COMPARING
THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE TO SOME
OTHER OFFICES.
WE'VE DONE THE SAME EXPERIMENT
FOR MEN AND WOMEN RUNNING FOR
CONGRESS, GOVERNOR, STATE
LEGISLATURE.
WE FIND THE BIAS AGAINST WOMEN
ONLY IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.
IT MIGHT BE THAT THERE ARE SOME
UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT THE
PRESIDENCY THAT MAKE IT
DIFFERENT.
IT'S THE NATIONAL OFFICE.
IT'S THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF.
IT'S A ROLE THAT HAS A UNIQUE
PLACE IN NATIONAL SECURITY AND
FOREIGN POLICY.
BUT IN OUR EXPERIMENTS WE SHOW
VOTERS CANDIDATES WHO ARE STRONG
IN NATIONAL SECURITY OR HAVE
HAWKISH POSITIONS ON DEFENSE AND
THEY ARE ALSO BIASED AGAINST.
SO WE THINK THE STORY HAS MORE
TO DO WITH THE EXPERIENCE THAT
PEOPLE HAVE WITH WOMEN ACTUALLY
IN OFFICE COMPARED TO THE
PRESIDENCY, WHERE A VOTER REALLY
HAS TO IMAGINE WHAT WOULD IT BE
LIKE TO HAVE A WOMAN PRESIDENT.
HASN'T HAPPENED.
SO THAT CAUSES SOME UNCERTAINTY
AND CAUSES THEM TO SHY AWAY.
>> THIS IS BEING DESCRIBED OF
THE YEAR OF THE WOMAN, RIGHT, IN
CONGRESSIONAL RACES.
AGAIN, YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S
FAMILIARITY AMONG VOTERS WITH
WOMEN RUNNING FOR THAT OFFICE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
WHEN WE PRESENTED VOTERS IN OUR
SURVEYS WITH TWO CONGRESSIONAL
CANDIDATES, THERE WAS NO BIAS
FOR OR AGAINST A FEMALE
CANDIDATE RELATIVE TO A MALE.
IN STATE RACES WE FOUND THAT
THERE WAS A BIAS IN FAVOR OF THE
FEMALE CANDIDATE.
SO DEPENDING ON THE LEVEL OF
GOVERNMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT,
HOW MEN AND WOMEN FARE IS
DIFFERENT.
>> WHAT IS THAT ABOUT, THE BIAS
AT THE STATE LEGISLATIVE OR
GUBERNATORIAL LEVEL?
>> THERE'S ONE GROUP IN
PARTICULAR THAT MOVES AROUND IN
OUR SURVEYS AND THAT'S
INDEPENDENTS.
IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IT'S
INDEPENDENTS WHO SHOAP THE SHOW THE
BIGGEST BIAS AGAINST FEMALE
CANDIDATES.
THEY DON'T HAVE PARTISANSHIP AS
A CRUTCH OR CUE THAT THEY CAN
USE THAT WOULD GUARANTEE THEM
WHAT THE PERSON IN OFFICE WOULD
DO.
>> DESCRIBE THAT A LITTLE BIT
MORE.
HOW DOES THE PARTY AFFILIATION
OFFER WHAT YOU CALL INSURANCE?
>> WELL, PARTY AFFILIATION IS
THE BEST GUIDE TO WHAT A
CANDIDATE WOULD DO IN OFFICE.
IT'S ONE THING THAT'S PROVIDED
ON THE BALLOT IN MOST CASES.
YOU KNOW WHETHER THE PERSON IS A
D OR A R.
MANY VOTERS ARE DEMOCRATS OR
REPUBLICANS.
IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN AND
THERE'S A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE.
THAT'S THE EASIEST CHOICE TO
MAKE, TO THE HOPE THAT CANDIDATE
WOULD FULFILL THE THINGS YOU'D
LIKE THEM TO DO.
FOR INDEPENDENT VOTERS THEY
DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF
ASSURANCE, SO THEY HAVE TO RELY
ON OTHER KINDS OF SHORTCUTS OR
WHAT WE CALL HERISTICS AND SEX
OR RACE WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE.
INDEPENDENTS RESPOND MOST TO A
FEMALE CANDIDATE IN A NEGATIVE
WAY IN PRESIDENTIAL RACES, BUT
SWING AND HAVE THE BIGGEST
RESPONSE IN GUBERNATORIAL AND
STATE RACES.
>> WHAT KIND OF REACTION ARE YOU
GET TO GO THIS RESEARCH?
>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
INTERESTED IN THE HILLARY
CLINTON ASPECT OF IT.
SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE BUT
LOST IN KEY STATES BY SMALL
AMOUNTS.
OUR RESEARCH SUGGESTS THERE'S
ENOUGH BIAS PRESENT THAT IT
COULD HAVE FLIPPED THAT
ELECTION.
THAT SAID, WE DO TRY TO CONTROL
FOR ATTITUDES TOWARD HILLARY
SPECIFICALLY.
ACCOUNTING FOR THAT THERE'S
STILL A BIAS AGAINST A FEMALE
CANDIDATE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
>> YOU TALK ABOUT CONTROLS YOU
BUILT INTO YOUR RESEARCH.
HOW DIFFERENT WERE KIND OF THE
METHODS THAT YOU USED IN THESE
SURVEYS COMPARED TO HOW PEOPLE
HAVE DONE IT PREVIOUSLY?
>> A LOT OF PREVIOUS STUDIES
LOOKED AT REAL ELECTIONS.
THEY'D FIND CONTESTS WHERE A MAN
AND A WOMAN HAD RUN AGAINST ONE
ANOTHER AND SEE HOW THEY FARED
OVER A BUNCH OF RACES.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO
DO IT BECAUSE THE WOMEN WHO END
UP RUNNING FOR OFFICE ARE
DIFFERENT FROM THE MEN WHO DO
AND THE WOMEN WHO DON'T.
WOMEN SELF-SELECT THEMSELVES OUT
OF RUNNING MORE THAN MEN DO.
THE WOMEN SHOULD SHOW UP ARE
OFTEN MORE QUALIFIED THAN THE
MEN THEY FACE.
IF WE FOUND MEN AND WOMEN FARED
EQUALLY, IT MIGHT BE THAT THE
WOMEN CANDIDATES ARE BETTER BUT
THERE'S A SLIGHT BIAS AGAINST
THEM.
SO WE PRESENTED VOTERS WITH
HYPOTHETICAL CANDIDATES, VARIED
THEIR ATTRIBUTES, AGE,
BACKGROUND, EXPERIENCE TO SEE
THE PURE EFFECT OF THE GENDER OF
THE CANDIDATE.
>> BARRY BURDEN, THANKS VERY
MUCH.
>> THANKS.
>> TO HEALTH NEWS AND PROOF THAT
A NUMBER ONE RANKING IS NOT
ALWAYS A GOOD THING.
A SURVEY RELEASED THIS WEEK IN
U.S.A. TODAY RANKS WISCONSIN AS
THE NUMBER ONE DRUNKEST STATE IN
THE NATION.
THE STUDY EXAMINES EXCESSIVE
DRINKING, WHICH ACCORDING TO THE
CDC, IS DEFINED AS FOUR OR MORE
DRINKS ON A SINGLE OCCASION FOR
WOMEN AND FIVE OR MORE FOR MEN.
THE CDC REPORTS THAT 18% OF
AMERICAN ADULTS REGULARLY
CONSUME UNHEALTHY AMOUNTS OF
ALCOHOL.
IN WISCONSIN, THAT NUMBER IS
26.2%.
IT'S NO WONDER THAT SEVEN OF THE
TOP TEN DRUNKEST CITIES IN THE
U.S. ARE IN WISCONSIN, INCLUDING
THE TOP FOUR.
GREEN BAY IS THE NATION'S
HARDEST-DRINKING CITY, WHERE THE
EXCESSIVE DRINKING RATE TOPS
EVEN THE STATE AVERAGE AT 26.5%.
EAU CLAIRE IS THE SECOND
HARDEST-DRINKING CITY IN THE
COUNTRY, WITH A 26.2% EXCESSIVE
DRINKING RATE.
APPLETON COMES IN AT NUMBER
THREE, ALSO WITH 26.2%.
SOME EXPLAIN MADISON'S NUMBER
FOUR RANKING DUE TO A LARGE
COLLEGE POPULATION.
THE MADISON RATE IS 25.9%.
WISCONSIN GETS A REPRIEVE AT THE
NUMBER FIVE SLOT.
THAT'S RESERVED FOR FARGO, NORTH
DAKOTA.
OSHKOSH BRINGS WISCONSIN BACK TO
THE MIX AT NUMBER SIX.
THAT'S WHERE 24.5% ARE EXCESSIVE
DRINKERS.
THE NUMBER SEVEN AND EIGHT
DRUNKEST PLACES ARE MISSOULA AND
GRAND FORKS, NORTH DAKOTA.
THE TOP TEN IS ROUNDED OUT WITH
WISCONSIN CITIES, WAUSAU AT
NUMBER NINE AND LA CROSSE AT
NUMBER TEN.
YEAR AFTER YEAR, WISCONSIN TAKES
THE LEAD IN BINGE DRINKING.
THE POPULAR EXPLANATION?
EVERYTHING FROM OUR HISTORY OF
BEER-MAKING TO LAX DRUNK DRIVING
LAWS AND NUMBER OF BARS AND
LIQUOR LICENSES, EVEN ALLOWING
CHILDREN TO DRINK IN BARS WITH
THEIR PARENTS' PERMISSION.
BUT WHAT DO THE EXPERTS SAY
CAUSES WISCONSINITES TO DRINK TO
EXCESS?
WE TALK WITH JIM PEARSON,
CLINICAL TEAM LEADER AT JOURNEY
MENTAL HEALTH IN MADISON.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.
>> SO WHEN YOU SEE THESE NUMBERS
AGAIN, WHAT'S YOUR REACTION?
>> WELL, I THINK IT POINTS TO,
AGAIN, JUST ACCEPTANCE AND A
CULTURE IN WISCONSIN THAT FUN
EQUALS DRINKING.
YOU SEE IN MANY OF THE FESTIVALS
THAT HAPPEN IN WISCONSIN AND
ESPECIALLY IN COLLEGE TOWNS,
WHERE IT JUST BECOMES
SYNONYMOUS.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING
ON A WEEKEND, ALCOHOL IS
INVOLVED.
>> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON
WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS KIND OF
A CONNECTION TO OUR BREWERY
CULTURE GOING WAY BACK TO THE
1800s AND OUR DRINKING
BEHAVIOR?
>> WELL, THAT HAS BEEN A STORY
WISCONSIN HAS TOLD ITSELF FOR A
NUMBER OF YEARS.
AND SO IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW
TRUE IT IS OR NOT AT THIS POINT.
IT JUST EXISTS.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THERE IS
JUST A LONG-TERM CONNECTION TO
THAT THAT MANY PEOPLE JUST
ACCEPT THAT IT'S FACT.
>> I WAS READING THAT SOME TEN
YEARS AGO, THAT UW HAD A HEFTY
GRANT FROM THE CDC TO HELP CURB
BINGE DRINKING.
WHY DON'T THESE EFFORTS WORK?
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY
WHERE THAT GRANT MONEY WENT TO,
BUT I CAN SAY THAT IF YOU
ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE STATS, THAT
BINGELEBINGE DRINKING AMONG HIGH SCHOOL
STUDENTS HAS DECLINED, BUT AMONG
ADULTS IT HAS INCREASED, THE
INDIVIDUALS MOST LIKELY TO BE ON
THE ROAD AND PUTTING OTHERS AT
RISK.
>> WHAT CAN BE DONE?
>> MANY OF THE EFFORTS THEY
STARTED, AND MAYBE EVEN IT WAS
EVEN THAT GRANT THAT HELPED
PROMOTE IT INITIALLY, WAS TRYING
TO PROMOTE RESEARCH THAT SAID IF
WE INCREASE ALCOHOL TAXES, THAT
THAT CAN HAVE A SIGNIFICANT
IMPACT.
AND OTHER STATES HAVE DONE THIS,
WHICH IS WHY WISCONSIN REMAINS
ON THE TOP OF THESE LISTS.
AND BEER TAX HAS NOT CHANGED
SINCE 1969.
SO NEXT YEAR WILL BE 50 YEARS OF
NO CHANGE TO THAT EXCISE TAX.
AND OTHER STATES ARE JUST
SURPASSING US IN THIS AND
ACTUALLY TAKING CONCRETE,
RESEARCH-BASED STEPS THAT CAN
HAVE AN IMPACT.
>> NOW, IN YOUR PRACTICE IS
ALCOHOL THE MOST PREVALENT
ADDICTION EVEN AS THIS STATE AND
OTHERS ARE GRAPPLING WITH
OPIOIDS?
>> WELL, JOURNEY HAS BEEN AROUND
FOR 70 YEARS.
IT HAS 28 DIFFERENT PROGRAMS.
IF WE LOOK AT THE SPECTRUM, YES,
ALCOHOL IS PROBABLY THE NUMBER
ONE THAT PEOPLE ARE MOST
STRUGGLING WITH IN THEIR USE.
>> AND YET YOU SUGGESTED, TOO,
THAT THERE'S KIND OF A
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PEOPLE
TRYING TO GET OFF OPIOIDS AND
THEN ENTERING BACK INTO THE
CULTURE OF DRINKING IN
WISCONSIN.
WHAT IS THAT?
>> YEAH.
YOU CAN IMAGINE.
SO IN OUR DRUG COURT PROGRAM,
OVER 90% PRESENT WITH AN OPIOID
USE DISORDER AND WE'RE
SUCCESSFUL AT CONNECTING THEM TO
TREATMENT AND GETTING THEM
REALLY STARTED IN THEIR
RECOVERY.
BUT LIVING IN A CULTURE SUCH AS
WISCONSIN, WHERE DRINKING IS
JUST A PART OF EVERYTHING, THEY
REALLY DO STRUGGLE WITH THAT
CONNECTION OF NOW I NEED TO
ADDRESS MY ALCOHOL USE.
OR MAYBE I CAN HAVE A DRINK.
THEY JUST QUESTION THAT.
AND IT STARTS OUT MAYBE THEY CAN
AT THE BEGINNING.
BUT AS THEIR DRINKING PROGRESSES
AND LEADS TO POOR CHOICES OR
DECISIONS THEY LATER REGRET,
THEY RUN BACK RIGHT INTO THEIR
OPIOID ADDICTION.
AND UNFORTUNATELY WE HEAR THAT
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
IN OUR PROGRAM WE DO OUR BEST TO
CATCH IT EARLY AND ADDRESS IT.
BUT THEN THEY HAVE TO COME TO
SOME ACCEPTANCE OF THAT
THEMSELVES, TOO.
>> OKAY.
JIM PEARSON, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
TIME.
>> IN ENVIRONMENTAL NEWS,
UW-MADISON SCIENTISTS HAVE
DISCOVERED CHRONIC WASTING
DISEASE IN THE SOIL.
ACCORDING TO A LEAD RESEARCHER,
IT'S THE FIRST TIME THE
EXISTENCE OF PRIONS IN SOIL HAS
BEEN DEMONSTRATED.
IT COINCIDES WITH GOVERNOR SCOTT
WALKER'S NEW EMERGENCY RULES
THAT INCLUDE REQUIRING
REINFORCED FENCING AROUND DEER
FARMS, BANNING THE MOVEMENT OF
LIVE DEER FROM DEER FARMS IN
CWD-AFFECTED COUNTIES AND A BAN
A MOVING WHOLE DEER CARCASSES
FROM SUCH COUNTY.
BUT PRIONS IN SOIL AND WATER?
COULD THAT BE WHAT HAS HELPED
CWD SPREAD TO AFFECT 53 OF
WISCONSIN'S 72 COUNTIES?
UW-MADISON PROFESSOR OF SOIL
SCIENCE, JOEL PEDERSEN, HELPED
LEAD THE RESEARCH.
HE JOINS US NOW.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> SO AS TO THAT QUESTION, COULD
CWD PRIONS IN THE SOIL BE AN
ADDITIONAL CAUSE FOR THE SPREAD
OF CWD?
>> WE AND OTHERS HAVE FOR MANY
YEARS HIGH HYPOTHESIZED THAT THOSE
ROUTES MAY CONTRIBUTE TO CWD
EPIDEMICS.
THE RELATIVE IMPORTANCE OF
ENVIRONMENTAL ROUTES VERSUS
DIRECT CONTACT BETWEEN AN
INFECTED ANIMAL AND UNAFFECTED
ANIMAL IS NOT CLEAR.
>> SO HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE,
THOUGH, THIS DISCOVERY MADE ON
THE PART OF YOURSELF AND OTHERS?
>> WELL, AS YOU SAID, IT'S THE
FIRST TIME THAT PRIONS HAVE BEEN
DISCOVERED IN
NATURALLY-CONTAMINATED SOILS.
WE FOUND THEM AT SITES WHERE
DEER CONGREGATE.
WHETHER THEY ARE AT SUFFICIENTLY
HIGH CONCENTRATIONS TO CAUSE
TRANSMISSION AND CONTRIBUTE TO
EPIDEMICS IS NOT CLEAR AT THIS
TIME.
>> FURTHER RESEARCH IS ONGOING
ON THIS, THOUGH, ON YOUR PART
AND OTHERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY?
>> YES.
>> YEAH.
AND SO THESE MINERAL LICKS,
WHERE DEER CONGREGATE, WOULD THE
SAME KIND OF NUMBERS OF DEERS
CONGREGATE AT FEEDING OR BAITING
SITES AND CAUSE THE SAME KIND OF
PRIONS TO ENTER THE SOIL?
>> CERTAINLY ANY AREA WHERE DEER
CONGREGATE HAS A POTENTIAL OF
SHEDDING PRIONS INTO THE
ENVIRONMENT.
WE ARE PARTICULARLY INTERESTED
IN MINIMAL LICKS BECAUSE THESE
ARE LOCATIONS WHERE DEER
ACTUALLY CONSUME SOIL, SO THE
MEDIUM ONTO WHICH THEY WOULD
SHED THE PRIONS.
>> SO ONCE THE PRIONS GET INTO
THE SOIL, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM
THEN?
I MEAN, ARE THEY WASHED AWAY OR
WASHED INTO GROUNDWATER OR...
>> RESEARCH -- EXCUSE ME.
RESEARCH CONDUCTED IN MY GROUP
INDICATES THAT LEECH INTO
GROUNDWATER IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT
CAUSE FOR CONCERN.
THEY CERTAINLY COULD ATTACH TO
SOIL PARTICLES AND BE WASHED OFF
OF THE SITE.
THERE WAS A PREVIOUS REPORT OF
PRIONS IN A WATER SAMPLE IN
COLORADO IN A WATERSHED-DRAINING
CWD, AREA WITH HIGH INCIDENCE OF
CWD.
THE DEGRADATION OF PRIONS IN
SOIL SEEMS TO BE RATHER SLOW.
WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD SENSE FOR
HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR THEM
TO DEGRADE.
>> AND WHAT DO SCIENTISTS KNOW
ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IF THERE
ARE THESE CWD PRIONS IN SOIL,
WHETHER THAT COULD RESULT IN
TRANSMISSION TO OTHER ANIMALS?
>> THERE'S CERTAINLY THAT
POTENTIAL, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY
-- TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO
EXPERIMENTS HAVE BEEN DONE TO
ADDRESS THAT.
>> AND WHAT ABOUT REALLY THE BIG
QUESTION, TRANSMISSION TO
HUMANS?
>> THAT, OF COURSE, IS A
QUESTION ON MANY PEOPLE'S MINDS.
THERE IS NOT CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE
THAT PRIONS COULD TRANSMIT TO
HUMANS AT THIS TIME.
THERE IS ONGOING WORK IN THAT
EFFORT.
AND THERE IS ONGOING WORK IN
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT, BOTH
IN THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF
HEALTH AND AT UNIVERSITIES.
>> BECAUSE PEOPLE REALLY ARE
KIND OF STARTING TO SOUND THE
ALARM ON THAT, AREN'T THEY?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT -- AGAIN,
WE DON'T HAVE ANY DEFINITIVE
PROOF OF TRANSMISSION TO HUMANS.
AND I HOPE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT
THIS NEXT WEEK WHEN I'M AT A
PREON MEETING WHERE I THINK THAT
SOME RESULTS THAT ARE RELEVANT
TO THIS QUESTION WILL BE
REPORTED.
>> WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR THAT AS
WELL.
WHAT REACTION HAVE YOU HAD TO
THIS DISCOVERY FROM POLICYMAKERS
OR REGULATORS HERE IN WISCONSIN
OR ELSEWHERE?
>> SOME INTEREST.
I HAVEN'T HAD MUCH CONTACT WITH
THEM.
>> GIVEN THE RESULTS OF THIS
RESEARCH, WHAT DO YOU THINK
SHOULD BE DONE TO LIMIT THESE
KINDS OF CONGREGATIONS OF DEER?
>> WELL, CERTAINLY IT SEEMS THAT
PRACTICES THAT CAUSE DEER TO
CONGREGATE SHOULD BE REVISITED
IN TERMS OF WHETHER WE SHOULD
REGULATE THAT OR NOT.
OUR STUDY, WHILE SHOWING THAT
PRIONS ARE PRESENT IN SUCH
PLACES, AGAIN, DOES NOT ANSWER
THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER
TRANSMISSION IS SIGNIFICANT AT
THOSE LOCATIONS.
>> ALL RIGHT.
JOEL PEDERSEN, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> EVEN THOUGH THE SCHOOL YEAR
IS JUST WRAPPING UP FOR THE
SUMMER, WE TAKE A QUICK LOOK
AHEAD TO NEXT YEAR.
WISCONSIN PARENTS WILL GET A
BREAK AHEAD OF THE FALL.
THE $100 PER-CHILD TAX RELATE TAX REBATE
THAT THE GOVERNOR TOUTED IN HIS
STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS WAS
ROLLED OUT THIS WEEK.
AFTER FILLING OUT AN ONLINE FORM
PARENTS WILL EITHER BE MAILED A
CHECK OR RECEIVE A DIRECT
DEPOSIT OF $100 FOR EACH CHILD.
THIS WAS ANNOUNCED IN
CONJUNCTION WITH AN AUGUST SALES
TAX HOLIDAY IN ORDER TO HELP
PARENTS AFFORD SCHOOL-RELATED
ITEMS.
THE WINDOW IS OPEN NOW THROUGH
JULY 2.
AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR
TONIGHT.
NEXT WEEK WE BEGIN OUR SERIES OF
INTERVIEWS WITH THE DEMOCRATS
RUNNING IN THE PRIMARY FOR
GOVERNOR.
KELDA ROYS WILL BE HERE.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF
WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
>> FOR MORE INFORMATION ON "HERE
AND NOW'S" 2018 ELECTION
COVERAGE, GO TO
wiscon