- WE PIVOT NOW TO THE ELECTION YEAR AND A CLOSER LOOK AT THE
DEEP POOL OF CANDIDATES RUNNING IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY FOR
GOVERNOR.
THE LIST GOES UP AND DOWN A NUMBER.
CURRENTLY THERE ARE 16 DEMOCRATS OFFICIALLY IN THE RACE.
AT LEAST ONE LONG-TIME POLITICAL OBSERVER IN THE STATE BELIEVES
THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING.
THAT WOULD BE MORDECAI LEE OF THE UW-MILWAUKEE POLITICAL
SCIENCE DEPARTMENT.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
- THANK YOU, SHAWN.
- I WANT TO THROW OUT A THEORY.
IF TWO CANDIDATES RUN IN A PRIMARY, THAT'S DEMOCRACY IN
ACTION.
IF 16 RUN, THAT'S EVEN BETTER.
- IS THIS MULTIPLE CHOICE?
BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOOD DEMOCRACY, DEMOCRACY WITH A SMALL D,
WHETHER THIS WERE TO BE A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC
PRIMARY.
THE CLOSEST EXAMPLE I CAN COME UP WITH WAS DURING MY POLITICAL
CAREER, THE YEAR I GOT ELECTED TO THE STATE SENATE.
1982 THE LOCAL CONGRESSMAN FROM MILWAUKEE RETIRED.
THERE WERE TEN NAMES ON THE BALLOT IN THE SEPTEMBER PRIMARY.
THE WINNER, JIM MOODY, GOT 19% OF THE VOTE AND HE BECAME THE
CONGRESSMAN.
THE NUMBER TWO PERSON CAME IN ABOUT 17% OR 18%.
SO THAT SHOWS YOU A FIELD OF TEN.
IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE WITH A FIELD OF 16.
- BUT IF DEMOCRATS ARE EXCITED ABOUT RUNNING AND THEY WANT
THEIR CHANCE TO TAKE ON GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER, THAT'S THEIR
RIGHT, ISN'T IT?
IS THERE ANY ALTERNATIVE, REALLY?
- WELL, THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE.
IT'S CALLED EITHER SECOND CHOICE RUNNING OR RUNOFF PRIMARY.
IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU'VE GOT THREE, FOUR, FIVE, 16 PEOPLE
RUNNING, NOBODY IS GOING TO GET A MAJORITY AND WE BELIEVE THAT
DEMOCRACY IS BASED ON MAJORITY RULE.
SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE WAY TO GO IS WHAT SOME SOUTHERN
STATES DO.
TRIM THE FIELD TO THE LAST TWO.
A MONTH LATER THEY HAVE A RUNOFF PRIMARY.
IF THERE ARE ONLY TWO CANDIDATES IN THE RUNOFF, SOMEBODY IS GOING
TO GET A MAJORITY.
THE OTHER WAY IS MORE COMPLICATED.
IT'S CALLED SECOND CHOICE VOTING.
WISCONSIN HAD IT FOR ONE ELECTION IN I THINK IT WAS 1911.
THAT'S THAT YOU CAST YOUR VOTE THAT DAY AND THEN YOU SAY BUT IF
MY PREFERRED CANDIDATE DOESN'T WIN, THEN I WOULD HAVE VOTED
FOR, FILL IN THE BLANK.
AND THEN WHAT THE COUNTY CLERKS DO IS THEY SORT OF RATCHET IT
DOWN UNTIL SOMEBODY GETS A MAJORITY OF VOTES.
- SO WE DON'T HAVE THAT IN WISCONSIN, THOUGH, RIGHT NOW.
SMALL D DEMOCRATIC CONCERNS ASIDE, WHAT'S YOUR BEST GUESS ON
WHAT THIS LARGE PRIMARY MEANS FOR THE BIG D DEMOCRATIC PARTY?
IS IT GOOD OR BAD FOR THEM?
- I SUPPOSE THEORETICALLY IT'S GOOD.
LET'S SAY THE WINNER WINS, I DON'T KNOW, 15% OF THE VOTE.
THE WINNER DOESN'T NECESSARILY REPRESENT
HOW DEMOCRATIC VOTERS FEEL.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE RIGHT NOW TWO SILOS.
THE MODERATE CLINTON BING AND -D THE BERNIE SANDERS WING.
WHAT IF ONE WING DOESN'T LIKE WHO WON THE PRIMARY?
SOMETIMES PEOPLE VOTE BASED ON, OH, YEAH, I'VE HEARD OF THAT
PERSON.
SO RIGHT NOW SOME OF THE OFFICE HOLDERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE ON
THE BALLOT HAVE RELATIVELY HIGH NAME RECOGNITION.
BUT VOTING FOR SOMEBODY BASED ON NAME RECOGNITION IS NOT AN
AFFIRMATIVE VOTE.
ALL IT'S SAYING IS I HEARD OF THEM.
- SO YOU REFERENCED A BIG PRIMARY.
I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY PRIMARY BACK THROUGH WISCONSIN HISTORY
THAT'S BEEN THIS BIG IN A RACE FOR GOVERNOR.
SO WHY IS THIS HUGE, POTENTIALLY HUGE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY
HAPPENING THIS YEAR?
- WELL, THE LOGICAL INTERPRETATION IS THAT THERE ARE
A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SENSE THAT GOVERNOR WALKER IS VULNERABLE
AND SO THEY WANT TO BE THE ONE TO RUN AGAINST HIM.
BUT THERE ARE SO MANY OF THEM THERE'S SORT OF NO WEEDING OUT.
BY JUNE 1, THE FILING DEADLINE, I SUSPECT THAT SOME OF THOSE 12,
16 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DROP OUT AND MAYBE SOME MORE DURING THE
SUMMER WILL EITHER UNOFFICIALLY DROP OUT OR DUE TO LACK OF MONEY
WON'T BE SERIOUS CONTENDERS.
BUT NONETHELESS THERE WILL BE AT LEAST A HALF A DOZEN
SERIOUS CANDIDATES.
SO THAT'S A PROBLEM IN TERMS OF MAJORITY RULE, WHO IS THE BEST
CANDIDATE DEMOCRATS WANT TO RUN AGAINST GOVERNOR WALKER.
- YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FIELD GETTING SMALLER.
RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK THERE'S ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC, MILWAUKEE
MAYOR TOM BARRETT, WHO'S POTENTIALLY GOING TO GET INTO
THIS RACE.
WHY IS THAT HAPPENING NOW GIVEN THE SIZE OF THE FIELD ALREADY?
- WELL, PRESUMABLY WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT MAYOR BARRETT
IS WELL-KNOWN BECAUSE HE RAN FOR GOVERNOR THREE PREVIOUS TIMES.
AND SO HE WOULD HAVE INSTANT NAME RECOGNITION AND INSTANT
CREDIBILITY, BECAUSE HE USED TO BE A STATE SENATOR AND HE KNOWS
STATE ISSUES.
THE PROBLEM IS, AGAIN, THE ISSUE OF NAME RECOGNITION.
WOULD HE WIN BECAUSE HE'S THE PREFERRED CANDIDATE OF A
MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS OR WOULD HE WIN BECAUSE PERHAPS HE HAS
HIGHER NAME RECOGNITION THAN THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION OR THE MAYOR OF MADISON?
SO IT ALL COMES DOWN TO BEING ABLE TO INTERPRET THE CHOICE AS
SOMEBODY WHO THE DEMOCRATS WANT TO BE THEIR NOMINEE AGAINST
GOVERNOR WALKER.
- ALL RIGHT.
MORDECAI LEE, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
- THANK YOU, SHAWN.