- THEY'VE BEEN SOMETHING OF A FIXTURE ACROSS WISCONSIN FOR
MORE THAN 120 YEARS.
TONIGHT, A CLOSER LOOK AT THE CLOSING OF BON-TON STORES,
WHICH INCLUDE BOSTON STORE AND YOUNKERS.
BON-TON, WITH CORPORATE OFFICES IN MILWAUKEE AND PENNSYLVANIA,
WILL CLOSE 260 STORES IN 24 STATES, 13 OF THEM IN WISCONSIN.
THE WISCONSIN STORES EMPLOY MORE THAN 2200 PEOPLE,
INCLUDING 700 AT THE MILWAUKEE HEADQUARTERS.
WHAT DOES THIS CLOSURE SAY
ABOUT THE CHANGIN0G LANDSCAPE OF RETAIL?
AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR SHOPPING MALLS,
NOW LOSING THEIR ICONIC ANCHOR STORES,
NOT TO MENTION THE ECONOMICS OF IT?
FOR THAT WE RETURN TO RUSS KASHIAN,
DIRECTOR OF THE FISCAL AND ECONOMIC RESEARCH CENTER AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-WHITEWATER.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
- THANK YOU.
- NOW, FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE,
HOW STUNNING IS IT TO LOSE 2200 JOBS ACROSS THE STATE,
700 BON-TON CORPORATE JOBS IN MILWAUKEE?
- WELL, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS REDUCE IT FROM THE
AGGREGATE TO THE INDIVIDUAL.
WE HAVE TO SAY, IT ISN'T SIMPLY 2200 JOBS IN A STATE WITH
MILLIONS OF JOBS.
IT'S JOBS IN EVERY COMMUNITY ACROSS THE STATE.
THERE ARE YOUNKERS AND BOSTON STORES THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
EACH ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO PEEL OFF SOME JOBS.
AND SO IT'S NOT SIMPLY ONE FIRM GOING UNDER ONE PLACE,
THERE'S AN IMPACT IN ALMOST EVERY SINGLE METROPOLITAN AREA
IN THE STATE.
- AS FOR MILWAUKEE, SPEAKING OF METROPOLITAN AREAS,
THE ICONIC BOSTON STORE SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE LAST BIG RETAILERS
STANDING AT THAT DOWNTOWN GRAND AVENUE MALL.
WHAT BECOMES OF THAT PROPERTY?
- I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IT, OF COURSE.
I ALWAYS START FROM THE INDIVIDUAL:
CONCERN FOR THE EMPLOYEES,
BECAUSE THIS IS THEIR LIVELIHOOD.
THIS IS ALSO THEIR LIFE, THEIR FRIENDS, THEIR FAMILY,
THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEIR CUSTOMERS THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH
FOR MANY YEARS.
I BELIEVE THE LAND-- THE PROPERTY DOWNTOWN MILWAUKEE
WILL BE REUSED.
IT'LL BE REUSED AS HOUSING OR SOME KIND OF BUSINESS PROPERTY.
THE CHALLENGE DOWN THERE IS GOING TO BE HOW IT IMPACTS THE
OTHER STORES IN THE GRAND AVENUE.
AND THE REASON YOU HAVE AN ANCHOR TENANT IS THE ANCHOR
PROVIDES STABILITY FOR THE MALL.
WHEN YOU LOSE THAT ANCHOR, IT'S GOING TO LIST.
AND THAT'S MY CONCERN, IS LESS THE BOSTON STORE SITE.
IT'S WHAT'S NEXT DOOR TO IT.
- WELL, RIGHT.
IN TERMS OF WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN FOR THE DOWNTOWN,
WHICH CIVIC LEADERS, AS YOU KNOW,
ARE TRYING REALLY HARD TO RE-INVENT.
- CORRECT.
AND YOU'RE LOSING A MAJOR RETAIL PLAYER,
WHICH WILL BRING OTHER PEOPLE INTO DOWNTOWN.
- NOW, FOR SMALLER CITIES THAT WILL LOSE THEIR MAJOR DEPARTMENT
STORE, WHAT COULD THAT SPELL?
- WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOOD.
I LOOK AT A CITY LIKE MANITOWOC, WHERE THE YOUNKERS THAT'S THERE
IS THE LAST REMAINING VESTIGE OF THAT MALL.
I DON'T SEE IT BEING REPURPOSED VERY EASILY.
SO I THINK THE CITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE CREATIVE WHAT TO DO
WITH THAT FACILITY.
YOU HAVE JANESVILLE.
COMPOUNDING THIS IS THE CHALLENGES THAT SEARS AND
PENNEY'S HAVE ALL.
SO IN A LOT OF THESE COMMUNITIES,
YOU'LL HAVE THREE ANCHOR TENANTS.
AND THE ANCHORS ARE YOUNKERS, SEARS AND PENNEY'S.
ALL THREE OF THEM ARE UNDER ASSAULT.
- I READ ONE EXPERT IN REGARD TO THIS SAYING RETAIL IS IN A
STATE OF DISRUPTION RIGHT NOW AND THE ROLE OF THE DEPARTMENT
STORE HAS CHANGED.
HOW REAL IN YOUR MIND IS THAT?
- WELL, I THINK IT'S ENTIRELY ACCURATE.
I THINK THE CHALLENGES -- WE'RE DOING -- WE DO FINE IN THE STRIP
CENTER WHERE YOU HAVE THE UNIQUE STORE.
WHERE SOMEONE PULLS IN, RUNS INTO THE STORE,
GETS THEIR GOODS AND COMES BACK OUT.
THE BED, BATH AND BEYOND OR THOSE TYPES OF STORES.
THE ERA OF THE LARGE METROPOLITAN MALL I THINK HAS
SEEN ITS HEYDAY A LONG TIME AGO.
AND THIS IS THE FINAL FOOTPRINT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.
- WHY IS THAT?
- WELL, A LOT OF IT IS E-TRADE.
YOU KNOW, WE TALKED FOR YEARS ABOUT THE CHALLENGE
THAT HAVING THE MALL.
THE WALMART WAS BUILT ON THE EDGE OF TOWN AND IT HOLLOWED OUT
THE DOWNTOWNS.
AND THE MALL WAS BUILT AT THE EDGE OF TOWN.
SOUTHRIDGE MALL WAS BUILT IN A CORNFIELD IN THE 1960S.
AND NOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THEY'RE BUILDING THE AMAZON
DISTRIBUTION CENTER IN BETWEEN SEVERAL MSAS,
BETWEEN SEVERAL METROPOLITAN AREAS.
AND SO THE HOLLOWING OUT IS MOVING OUT EVEN FURTHER.
AND SO THIS IS JUST WHAT HAPPENED IN THE '60S AND '70S TO
THE DOWNTOWNS IS NOW HAPPENING TO THE MALLS AS THINGS CONTINUE
TO MOVE OUT.
- THE ONE THING THAT I'VE SEEN THAT APPARENTLY DEVELOPERS ARE
DOING IS BUILDING THESE KIND OF OPEN AIR MALLS,
AS OPPOSED TO THESE GIANT ENCLOSED MALLS WITH, AS YOU SAY,
THE ANCHOR STORES.
WHAT IS AN OPEN AIR MALL ABOUT IN A CLIMATE LIKE WISCONSIN?
- IT'S ABOUT THE SPECIALTY STORE.
AND THE CLIMATE OF WISCONSIN IS CHALLENGING SOMETIMES.
BUT I GREW UP IN WISCONSIN.
95% OF THE TIME IT'S PRETTY GOOD.
YOU CAN RUN OUT OF YOUR CAR AND RUN INTO THE SPECIALTY STORE
AND GET THOSE GOODS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR AND GET BACK TO YOUR
CAR WITHOUT HAVING TO TRAVERSE AN ENTIRE SHOPPING MALL.
THE CHALLENGE WAS THE DEPARTMENT STORE WAS DESIGNED TO BRING THE
PEOPLE INTO THAT STORE.
AND THEN THEY WOULD KIND OF MOSEY ON DOWN TO THE SPECIALTY
STORE INSIDE THE MALL.
IF THE DEPARTMENT STORE ISN'T THERE,
THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE SHOPPING MALL AND WANDER AROUND
THE SHOPPING MALL.
THAT'S CHALLENGING WHEN I CAN SIMPLY PARK MY CAR STRAIGHT IN
FRONT OF THAT SPECIALTY STORE, THE LANDS' END STORE.
- YOU TALKED A MOMENT AGO ABOUT E-TRADE,
SO IT'S KIND OF THE AMAZONS OF THE WORLD,
THIS ONLINE SHOPPING THAT IS PUTTING THIS PRESSURE ON BRICKS
AND MORTAR RETAIL?
- IT IS. IT IS.
I DON'T THINK IT'S THE DEATH KNELL OF BRICKS AND MORTAR,
BUT I THINK BRICKS AND MORTAR HAS TO RESPOND.
- GIVEN THE EMPLOYMENT PICTURE THOUGH RIGHT NOW,
IS IT LIKELY THAT EMPLOYEES WHO LOSE THEIR JOBS OUT OF THIS
WILL BE ABLE TO FIND OTHER WORK?
- WELL, IT'S EASY TO SAY, "WELL,
WE HAVE A VERY LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.
THEREFORE, THEY CAN GO DO SOMETHING ELSE."
I GO BACK TO THE QUESTION
IS MAYBE THEY DON'T WANT TO-- MAYBE THEY LOVE THEIR JOB.
AND SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN AND EMPATHY
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT BOSTON STORE IN A SOCIAL SENSE.
OF COURSE, THEY CAN GO WORK SOMEWHERE.
BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE BECAUSE THIS IS
WHAT THEIR SPECIALTY WAS.
THIS IS WHAT THEY WERE TRAINED TO DO.
- YEAH.
I APPRECIATE THE IDEA OF EMPATHY AND THE FOCUS ON THE INDIVIDUAL
AS OPPOSED TO JUST MAKING IT SOUND LIKE A STATISTIC AND,
"OH, THERE'S PLENTY OF JOBS OUT THERE."
SO PROFESSOR KASHIAN, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
- THANK YOU.