- IN OUR FIRST LOOK TONIGHT, A CASE INVOLVING WEST MILWAUKEE
POLICE OFFICERS THAT IS ATTRACTING NATIONAL ATTENTION.
A CIVIL SUIT IS EXPECTED TO BE FILED IN THE DEATH OF A MENTALLY
ILL MAN WHO DIED AFTER POLICE OFFICERS TASED HIM WHILE
RESPONDING TO A REPORT HE WAS HAVING A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.
THREE WEST MILWAUKEE POLICE OFFICERS RESPONDED TO
22-YEAR-OLD ADAM TRAMMEL'S APARTMENT IN MAY OF 2017.
ACCORDING TO INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS AND POLICE BODY CAM
FOOTAGE, THE OFFICERS BROKE DOWN THE DOOR AND FOUND TRAMMEL IN
THE SHOWER.
THEY SAY HE RESPONDED NEITHER TO POLICE ATTEMPTS TO TALK WITH
HIM OR VERBAL COMMANDS.
THEY USE TASERS ON HIM OVER A NINE OR TEN-MINUTE PERIOD.
ARRIVING PARAMEDICS GAVE HIM A CALMING MEDICATION.
HE STOPPED BREATHING AND WAS DECLARED DEATH.
ATTORNEYS DESCRIBE IT AS DEATH BY TORTURE WITH TASERS, A MAN
WHO WAS UNARMED AND NAKED IN HIS OWN BATHROOM AND ACCUSED OF NO
CRIME.
MILWAUKEE DISTRICT ATTORNEY JOHN CHISHOLM REVIEWED THE CASE FOR
POSSIBLE CRIMINAL CHARGES AND FOUND THERE IS NOT SUFFICIENT
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT A FINDING OF GUILT ON THE OFFICERS' PART AND
THEIR ACTIONS DID NOT VIOLATE THE LAW.
WE WILL HEAR FROM THE ATTORNEY FOR ADAM TRAMMEL'S FAMILY.
BUT FIRST, WE GO TO JOHN CHISHOLM IN MILWAUKEE.
AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
WHY DIDN'T THE ACTIONS RISE TO THE CRIMINAL CHARGES EVEN WITH
THE TASING.
- FIRST, THEY NEVER WANT TO LOSE THE HUMAN ELEMENT.
WE ALWAYS SIT DOWN AND TALK TO THE FAMILY AND THEIR
REPRESENTATIVES AND WE UNDERSTAND THE PAIN AND THE
SUFFERING THAT ACCOMPANIES TRAGIC INCIDENTS LIKE THIS.
AT THE END OF THE DAY MY OBLIGATION IS TO LOOK AT ALL THE
FACTS AND APPLY THAT TO THE LAW.
AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THE POLICE WERE ACTUALLY SUMMONED
NOT FOR A CRIMINAL OFFENSE, BUT ANOTHER EQUALLY IMPORTANT
OBLIGATION THAT THEY HAVE, WHICH IS TO HELP PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE
IN MEDICAL DISTRESS.
THEY'RE FIRST LINE RESPONDERS.
THEY HAVE AN ACTUAL OBLIGATION IF THEY RECEIVE INFORMATION,
WHICH THEY DID, THAT THIS YOUNG MAN WAS SUFFERING FROM A MENTAL
ILLNESS AND THAT HE WAS WANDERING THE HALLWAY NAKED.
THEY TALKED TO A NEIGHBOR WHO WAS CONCERNED THAT HE HAD A
PSYCHOTIC BREAK AND THAT SHE WAS AFRAID HE WAS GOING TO HURT
HIMSELF.
SO UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY ACTUALLY HAD AN OBLIGATION
TO ENTER THAT APARTMENT AND MAKE CONTACT WITH MR. TRAMMEL.
WE ALSO LOOK AT HOW THEY'RE TRAINED, AND ONE OF THE WAYS
THAT THEY'RE TRAINED IS THAT IF THEY SEE SIGNS OF THE PERSON IS
IN SUCH DISTRESS THAT WHAT THEY ARE TRAINED TO LOOK FOR IS WHAT
THEY CALLED EXCITED DELIRIUM AND THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT AND
DANGEROUS MEDICAL CONDITION THAT REQUIRES THEM TO GET HELP FOR
THAT PERSON.
BUT HERE'S THE CATCH IN ALL OF THAT, FREDERICA, AND THAT IS
THEY CAN'T GET HELP FOR HIM UNTIL HE IS CALM AND HE'S
RESTRAINED.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WON'T ACTUALLY
RESPOND DIRECTLY TO HIM UNTIL THEY HAVE THE SITUATION UNDER
CONTROL.
- WELL, AS TO THIS EXCITED DELIRIUM, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT
IS NOT ACTUALLY RECOGNIZED AS A MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS, BUT POLICE
PROTOCOL SAYS THAT WHEN CONFRONTED WITH IT, OFFICERS
SHOULD AVOID INCREASING THE SUBJECT'S AGITATION AND MINIMIZE
PHYSICAL STRUGGLE.
FROM YOUR REVIEW, WOULD IT APPEAR THAT THESE OFFICERS WENT
AGAINST THAT PROTOCOL?
- WELL, AGAIN, THE PROTOCOLS ARE GUIDELINES, AND THE BOTTOM
LINE ON THIS CASE IS IT WAS A VERY COMPLEX, ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE
SITUATION, WHERE YOU HAD A 240-POUND, NAKED MAN WHO THEY
WERE VERY CONCERNED WAS SHOWING THOSE SIGNS.
IT WAS AN EXTREMELY CONFINED SPACE.
AND THEIR INTENT AS THEY EXPRESSED IT WAS SIMPLY TO GET
HIM MEDICAL ATTENTION.
IT'S A DANGEROUS ENCOUNTER.
WE JUST RECENTLY -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THE VIDEOS FROM THE
STREET ENCOUNTER IN MILWAUKEE YESTERDAY INVOLVING A PERSON
THAT WE BELIEVE IS MENTALLY ILL.
YOU KNOW, FOUR POLICE OFFICERS SERIOUSLY INJURED.
THAT PERSON AS WELL.
THESE ARE ALWAYS DANGEROUS ENCOUNTERS.
BUT THEIR INTENT IS TO GET HIM MEDICAL ATTENTION AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE.
IF THEY DON'T, HE COULD POTENTIALLY DIE.
SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WE LEARNED, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT OVER
AN HOUR AFTER HE WAS DECEASED, HE HAD A CORE BODY TEMPERATURE
OF ALMOST 104 DEGREES, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT AT THE TIME THAT
THEY WERE ENCOUNTERING MR. TRAMMEL, HE COULD HAVE BEEN
UP IN THE 107, 108 RANGE.
AND IT'S MEDICALLY DANGEROUS IF YOU'RE ANYTHING HIGHER THAN 103.
SO THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING.
AND THIS IS THE COMPLICATED CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THEY
ENCOUNTERED.
- WELL, WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF USING CALMING TECHNIQUES OR
EARLIER INTERVENTIONS WITH TRANQUILIZERS?
- SEE, AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT AUTHORIZED TO ADMINISTER ANY
KIND OF SEDATIVES.
ONLY A TRAINED MEDICAL PERSON CAN DO THAT.
THEIR OBLIGATION IS SIMPLY TO MAKE THE AREA AND THE PERSON
SAFE SO THAT THE MEDICAL PEOPLE CAN DO THAT.
AND IN THIS CASE, THE INITIAL ENCOUNTER ACTUALLY RESULTED IN
RESISTANCE, AND THAT RESISTANCE THEY HAD AN OPTION OF EITHER
TRYING TO PUT -- YOU KNOW, COMPLIANCE HOLDS ON HIM, WHICH
WOULD BE NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE.
HE WAS IN THE SHOWER, WET, DRINKING HOT WATER AT THE TIME.
AND WHEN THEY ATTEMPTED TO REACH OUT TO HIM, THAT'S WHEN HE
PUSHED THEIR HANDS AWAY AND THAT'S WHEN THEY ELECTED TO USE
THAT ELECTRONIC CONTROL DEVICE.
- IN FACT, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT FIRST USE OF THAT DEVICE
WAS TO HIS CHEST.
ISN'T THAT A CARDIAC DANGER?
- NO.
ACTUALLY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE VIDEOTAPE CLOSELY, YOU'LL SEE
THAT THE PRONG IS GOING TO HIS RIGHT UPPER THIGH AND HIS LOWER
ABDOMEN.
ALL OF THIS INFORMATION, BY THE WAY, IS POSTED ON THE
INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIVE AGENCY'S SITE.
THAT WAS THE GREENFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT.
WE DID INVESTIGATE THIS ACCORDING TO THE PROTOCOL THAT
WE USE TO INVESTIGATE ANY OFFICER-INVOLVED FORCE.
- YOU SAID THAT YOU MET EXTENSIVELY WITH THE FAMILY OF
ADAM TRAMMEL.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO ADAM TRAMMEL'S FAMILY?
- WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE SAY HOW SORRY WE ARE FOR THEIR
LOSS.
WE UNDERSTAND THE PAIN THAT COMES WITH THIS.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, MY OBLIGATION IS TO PROVIDE THEM
WITH ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT I CAN POSSIBLY GATHER AND TO
FOLLOW UP ON THINGS THAT THEY WANT ANSWERED.
BUT IN THE END, MY OBLIGATION IS TO MAKE A DETERMINATION OF
WHETHER I WOULD BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE BEYOND A REASONABLE
DOUBT IN A CRIMINAL SETTING THAT THE OFFICERS ENGAGED IN
MISCONDUCT.
THE MEDICAL EXAMINER FOUND THAT THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS EXCITED
DELIRIUM.
THAT IN AND OF ITSELF TAKES THE MATTER OUT OF THE REALM OF A
HOMICIDE.
SO THE NEXT QUESTION IS DID THE ENCOUNTER AND THE USE OF THE
ELECTRONIC CONTROL DEVICES BECOME ABUSIVE AT SOME POINT IN
TIME?
AND THERE YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHETHER THEIR TRAINING WAS
CONSISTENT WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THEY
ENCOUNTERED.
AND HERE'S ONE THING THAT I LEARNED A GREAT DEAL ABOUT WITH
TASERS AND THAT IS EVEN THOUGH THE AMOUNT OF RECORDED
DEPLOYMENTS, IN OTHER WORDS, THE NUMBER OF TIMES THEY PULLED THE
TRIGGER, SEEMS HIGH, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT MR. TRAMMEL
RECEIVED A SHOCK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE TIMES.
AND SOMETIMES WHEN THE PROBES GET DISLODGED, ALL THAT THEY
RECEIVE IS PAIN, BUT THEY'RE NOT INCAPACITATED.
SO IT'S, AGAIN, A VERY COMPLEX CIRCUMSTANCE.
AND ULTIMATELY WHAT IS SHOWN IN THE VIDEO IS THAT MR. TRAMMEL
DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXPIRE OR STOP BREATHING UNTIL AFTER HE'S BEEN
BROUGHT TO MEDICAL ATTENTION AND THEY ADMINISTER A SEDATIVE.
SO WE CAN'T EVEN DEMONSTRATE A
DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN THE USE OF THOSE ECDs AND HIS
DEATH.
- JOHN CHISHOLM, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
- GLAD TO BE HERE.
THANK YOU.
- THE FAMILY OF ADAM TRAMMEL WHO DIED AFTER POLICE USED
TASERS ON HIM IS PLANNING FOR LEGAL ACTION OVER HIS DEATH.
ATTORNEY ROBIN SHELLOW IS REPRESENTING THE TRAMMEL FAMILY
AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
- THANK YOU.
- WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE FACT THAT THE DA DECIDED NOT TO
ISSUE CHARGES AGAINST THE OFFICERS?
- DISAPPOINTED.
SADDENED AND DISAPPOINTED.
- WHAT ABOUT THE FAMILY?
WHAT IS THEIR REACTION?
WHAT HAVE THEY TOLD YOU?
- OUTRAGED.
THEY ARE OUTRAGED.
THEY CANNOT BELIEVE THAT AFTER WATCHING A VIDEO OF THEIR SON
BEING TORTURED TO DEATH, THAT THESE OFFICERS WON'T BE HELD
CRIMINAL CRIMINALLY ACCOUNTABLE.
- NOW, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S REVIEW DESCRIBED THE OFFICERS AS
CONFRONTED WITH A VERY COMPLEX PROBLEM.
MR. TRAMMEL, THE REPORT SAID, WAS NAKED, WET, UNABLE TO
COMMUNICATE, IN ACUTE MENTAL CRISIS AND RESISTED RESTRAINT.
JOHN CHISHOLM SAID THEIR ONLY REASONABLE OPTION APPEARED TO BE
THE TASER.
WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
- THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION OCCURS EVERY SINGLE DAY IN EVERY
SINGLE EITHER EMERGENCY ROOM, MENTAL HOSPITAL.
I HAD FOR 15 YEARS AN EMPLOYEE WHO WORKED FOR ME WHO WAS A
SOCIAL WORKER, ONE OF THE MAJOR PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS.
AND HE EXPLAINED THAT POLICE ARE NOT TRAINED TO RESTRAIN PERSONS
WITH MENTAL ILLNESS.
AND IT REQUIRES PEOPLE KNOWING WHAT TO DO AND HAVING THE RIGHT
SIZE OF PEOPLE THERE AND KNOWING HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE IN
THE MIDDLE OF PSYCHOSES OR WHATEVER AND THAT IT'S DONE
EVERY SINGLE DAY IN MENTAL HEALTH CENTERS AROUND THE
COUNTRY, WHERE PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING VARIOUS KINDS OF
EITHER PSYCHOTIC OR OTHER KINDS OF REACTIONS AND THAT THEY DO
NOT USE TASERS.
- CHISHOLM FOUND THAT THERE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE OF
EITHER INTENTIONAL OR NEGLIGENT ABUSE ON THE OFFICERS' PART.
ON WHAT BASIS DO YOU DISPUTE THAT?
- HEARING THE TORTUOUS SCREAMS FOR HALF AN HOUR AS MY CLIENT'S
SON PRAYED FOR GOD TO TAKE HIM NOW, TAKE HIM NOW.
HE WAS IN AGONY.
THEY DESCRIBE -- THE PEOPLE WHO STUDY TASERS DESCRIBE A TASER
VOLT AS A FULL-BODY CHARLIE HORSE TIMES 60.
THAT -- AND IT LASTS FOR FIVE SECONDS.
THAT'S ONE.
HE WAS TASED AT LEAST 15 TIMES, ONE TIME FOR 12 SECONDS
CONTINUOUSLY, AND ANOTHER 14 OR 15 TIMES FOR FIVE SECONDS.
I CAN FIND NOTHING IN THE LITERATURE, EITHER WRITTEN BY
THE COMPANY THAT MANUFACTURERS THE WEAPON OR IN ANY OF THE
CASES WHERE THERE HAS BEEN THAT LEVEL OF ABUSE.
- THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS LISTED AS EXCITED DELIRIUM, AND THE
MANNER WAS UNDETERMINED.
DO YOU TAKE EXCEPTION TO THE CAUSE BEING EXCITED DELIRIUM?
- WELL, IN -- AT LEAST AS EARLY AS 2014, WHEN THE PARTICULAR
MODEL OF TASER THAT WAS USED ON MY CLIENT WAS DISCONTINUED,
EVERY SINGLE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT USES THAT MODEL OF TASER
GOT A RETRAINING MEMO SAYING THAT DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF
ELECTRICITY USED OR THE NUMBER OF TIMES USED, THAT IT CAN CAUSE
CARDIAC DEATH.
SO, YEAH, I TAKE AN EXCEPTION TO IT.
- IS THAT THE BASIS OF YOUR CIVIL SUIT?
WHAT WILL YOUR CIVIL SUIT ARGUE IN THIS CASE?
- WELL, OBVIOUSLY, VIOLATIONS OF EXCESSIVE FORCE, LIABILITY
FOR -- AGAINST EACH OF THE OFFICERS WHO PARTICIPATED.
WE WILL BE SEEKING JUDGMENTS AGAINST THEM, AGAINST THE CHIEF
FOR BEING THE CHIEF POLICYMAKER, FOR ADMINISTERING AN
UNCONSTITUTIONAL POLICY WITH RESPECT TO TASERS AND THE
MUNICIPALITY ITSELF FOR FAILING TO PROPERLY TRAIN, EDUCATE,
SELECT ITS OFFICERS.
- KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF YOUR WORK AND
RESEARCH AND INVESTIGATION INTO THIS CASE, WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
THE METHOD, IN YOUR MIND, FOR OFFICERS TO HELP ADAM TRAMMEL AS
HE WAS IN THE SHOWER, WET, BIG GUY, IN THE MIDST, REPORTEDLY,
OF A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS?
HOW DO YOU DO THAT WHERE YOU TRY TO HELP THIS PERSON?
- CALL FOR STRONGER OFFICERS TO GET HIM OUT OF THE BATHTUB.
CLEAR AND SIMPLE.
- AND HOW DO -- - THEY WERE NOT -- HE WAS NOT
BEING SUSPECTED OF A CRIME.
THIS IS A MENTAL HEALTH CHECK, A WELLNESS CHECK.
SO ONCE YOU KNOW THAT IT'S A WELLNESS CHECK AND THERE MAY BE
A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE, THEN YOU DEAL WITH IT EXACTLY THE WAY
CRISIS INTERVENTION TEAMS DEAL WITH IT ALL THE TIME: STRONGER
OFFICERS WHO'D SIMPLY LIFT HIM OUT OF THE BATHTUB, PERIOD.
YOU KNOW?
FIND ME A POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THE COUNTY AREA WHERE THEY
COULDN'T HAVE CALLED FOR ASSISTANCE TO SAY, HEY, YOU GOT
ANY BIG, STRONG GUYS THAT CAN COME OVER?
WE GOT A MEDICAL EMERGENCY.
- WHAT DO YOU HOPE CAN BE LEARNED FROM THIS CASE?
- THAT WE TALK A LOT ABOUT NONLETHAL FORCE AND LETHAL
FORCE.
NONLETHAL FORCE CAN BE INCREDIBLY DEADLY IF YOU DON'T
KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
YOU CAN TAKE A BASEBALL BAT AND USE IT ONCE AND RESTRAIN
SOMEBODY.
BUT IF YOU HIT HIM 30 TIMES IN THE HEAD, YOU MIGHT KILL HIM.
- ROBIN SHELLOW, WE NEED TO LEAVE IT HERE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
- YOU'RE WELCOME.