- I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here and Now," a first look at health care
changes that may be tucked into Congressional tax plans.
After that, a closer look
at this fall's state legislative session.
Assembly party leaders are here.
Then in our look ahead,
another Democrat steps into the race for governor.
We'll introduce you to Mahlon Mitchell.
It's "Here and Now" for November 17.
- Funding for "Here and Now" is provided, in part,
by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.
- Following passage of the Republican tax cut bill
late this week in the U.S. House, the U.S. Senate
now takes up its version.
For his part, Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson
said he cannot support the measure saying,
"We have an opportunity to enact paradigm-shifting tax reform
that makes American businesses globally competitive.
In doing so, it is important to maintain the domestic
competitive position and balance between large publicly-traded C
corporations and pass-through entities.
These businesses truly are the engines of innovation
and job creation throughout our economy
and they should not be left behind.
Unfortunately, neither the House nor Senate bill
provide fair treatment.
So I do not support either in their current versions."
Now, Senate leaders can afford only two Republican defections
to win passage.
The Senate bill, which is expected to go to a vote as soon
as the week after Thanksgiving also includes a repeal of the
Affordable Care Act's individual mandate,
something the House bill does not include.
The individual mandate requires people carry health insurance
and exacts a penalty for people who do not.
That penalty is $695 for an adult.
What happens if this mandate goes away?
We asked the health policy director at the UW Population
Health Institute, Donna Friedsam.
And thanks very much for being here.
- Happy to be here.
- So to that question, what does happen if this individual
mandate is eliminated?
- The people that are looking to eliminate the mandate
consider it a tax on people who are being required to purchase a
product they may not want to purchase.
And suggest that people are having to pay for something they
don't want and perhaps something that is not up to what they're
interested in buying.
But if the mandate goes away, there's a number of unintended
consequences we may see happen.
Number one, the people who are healthy and younger who won't --
will no longer be compelled to purchase insurance,
will likely not purchase insurance.
And when that happens, the people that remain in the market
will be the older people or people who have more health
needs and that means the insurance premiums will increase
for those people.
And overall insurance premiums are expected to increase 10%.
That's according to the GAO or more likely
more other people suggest.
- Now, I've read that this individual mandate
was not as effective as planned.
How true is that?
- The individual mandate is considered to be a very
important part of the Affordable Care Act in terms of bringing
people to purchase their insurance coverage and has been
important in getting people to consider
their insurance options.
Now, many people have indeed looked at the penalty and
considered whether the penalty is something they want to take
instead of purchasing insurance,
particularly younger, healthier people.
And there have been a number of exceptions in the-- to the
mandate that allow people to opt out of purchasing insurance.
But overall the carriers in the market consider the individual
mandate to be one of the key components to allowing them to
offer coverage in the Affordable Care Act.
- What's the interplay between the individual mandate and
pre-existing conditions?
- So the Affordable Care Act or otherwise known as Obamacare
requires insurance companies to provide insurance to all people
regardless of their pre-existing conditions or their health
status.
So the only way they can do that at an affordable price is to
make sure that they have enough healthy people also enrolling in
coverage so that everyone shares the risk and thus the costs are
shared across a broad risk pool or broad population of enrolled
people.
If people who are young and healthy think they don't need to
participate in insurance, the only people that will enroll in
insurance are people who currently have health needs or
have high health risks.
And then the insurance companies will price their products to
reflect that high need, and the premiums will become very
expensive and in all likelihood unaffordable for many people.
- Now, you addressed this a little bit earlier,
but I've read that the projection is that 13 million
people would end up not being covered if this mandate goes
away.
And I just wonder whether this number represents people who
never wanted coverage in the first place or is it because
without the mandate, coverage just becomes too expensive?
- The Republicans who are advocating for this change in
the tax bill are suggesting that the 13 million people might be
people who are simply opting out of insurance and not buying a
product that they don't want.
It seems that some people will indeed be opting out for those
reasons, but many people will be not purchasing coverage because
they're going to find it unaffordable,
further unaffordable.
Not to say people aren't finding it unaffordable today.
That's another challenge we have to address.
But people will find it more unaffordable as the premiums
increase with this change.
And as well without the mandate, people will no longer be
compelled to even look for coverage.
And currently many of the people that go look for coverage go not
knowing what kinds of federal subsidies are available.
And the savings that are contemplated in the tax bill are
there because they're expecting that all the people that are
currently getting federal subsidies will no longer be
taking those subsidies because they won't be going to look for
their coverage and claiming the federal subsidies that are
available.
- Now, my understanding is about 243,
000 people in Wisconsin are on Obamacare plans right now.
How might this repeal or elimination of the individual
mandate affect Wisconsin?
- So we're currently in an open enrollment period
right now in Obamacare.
So it started on November 1.
And it goes through December 15.
And those are for plans that start on January 1.
And people should know no matter what's happening in Congress
right now open enrollment for 2018 is in existence and they
need to go and look for coverage.
But indeed if the individual mandate goes away,
then the premiums going forward will increase and in all
likelihood, people will find it more difficult to afford
coverage, particularly people who don't have access to the
federal premiums that are available.
That being said, the majority of people who look for coverage
through the Affordable Care Act do have access to federal
premium subsidies.
The concern here again is without the mandate,
people will not go look for coverage and will never find out
about the subsidies that are available for them.
- At what point does all this chipping away at the Affordable
Care Act law just mean the whole thing collapses?
- Ultimately the more deterrent there is for people to look for
coverage and find out what's available for them.
And particularly the more deterrents there are for
healthier people to go enroll in coverage,
the less of a business incentive there is for insurance companies
to participate in the program and to offer products.
And that's when the insurance carriers say,
"We can't offer a product that is going to work for our company
and make it financially viable." And that's when it does become a
question of whether the program can continue.
What we need is a stable insurance market where people do
have incentives to enroll and make it a financially viable
system so that insurance carriers see a business model
there that they can continue to offer products.
- All right.
Donna Friedsam, thanks very much.
- Thank you.
- Eyes are on Washington, what with work and dissension over
major tax overhaul and other more salacious matters.
But the Wisconsin legislature has been powering through
its session.
In tonight's closer look, a check-in with Assembly Speaker
Robin Vos.
We'll hear from the Minority Leader coming up.
And Speaker Vos, thanks very much for being here.
- Happy to be here.
- So you join us today to talk about the Assembly session.
Foxconn stands out. - Yeah.
It's one of the biggest accomplishments we probably had
in our state's history.
The largest foreign investment in generations.
Thousands of good-paying jobs coming to southeastern
Wisconsin.
And luckily thousands of good-paying jobs will probably
filter their way throughout the entire state.
Governor Walker often talks about the impact of large
corporations and the suppliers that they give business to
through the state.
So Oshkosh Corporation as an example;
300 different suppliers that continue to help a company that
does a lot less in business than Foxconn will.
Still incredibly important to the Fox Valley.
It's a good example of how one large corporation like that -
while there's good-paying jobs that'll be just in Racine County
and southeastern Wisconsin - it will also help the entire state.
- What should taxpayers make, though,
of the governor not mentioning Foxconn in his re-election
announcement?
I mean, is he distancing himself from it?
- No. I was just with him at the signing.
I think he's incredibly proud, as all of us are,
of the opportunity for us to create 13,
000 good-paying jobs in Wisconsin.
I think that for the critics, I wish they would take some time
to actually look and say let's focus on positives about
Wisconsin.
They are so busy constantly berating every possible good
thing that happens, trying to talk down Wisconsin.
I don't understand that.
- Will your members in districts outside southeast
Wisconsin campaign on this?
- I think they'll mention it.
I mean it's not the entire agenda that we've had.
We've done lots of good things.
If you look at our budget as an example.
Tax cuts, getting rid of the personal property tax,
more money than we've invested in schools in close to a
generation.
At the same time, we've been able to make sure we focus on
our priorities of making sure we have more funding for worker
training.
More funding for mental health care.
All of those things are lots to be proud of.
Now Foxconn is one important bill this session but it's
certainly not the only one.
- Speaking of this session, it's not over.
There are several bills still hanging out there.
What is your reaction to Republican Senator Steve Nass
saying he expects you to kill conservative bills after the
flap where you blasted Nass and two other Republicans senators
for their negotiating tactics during the budget?
- Well it's kind of typical of what Steve Nass does, right?
He's kind of a frame-thrower.
That's what everybody knows him as.
Conservative legislation has happened the entire time I've
been speaker.
We're going to continue to push an agenda that makes Wisconsin
a place that people want to work.
They want to retire and they certainly get to keep
more of their own money.
Now I know he has a problem actually communicating with his
own caucus members to be able to get bills through his caucus.
So if he gets bills through, send them to the Assembly.
If they're good legislation, they'll pass in our House.
- On some of these bills, what's your position on
concealed carry without a permit?
- I've always been in favor of that as a general idea.
Now Governor Walker has come out
saying the system we have works fine.
He's right about that.
There's not a huge need to make a change.
I think we passed concealed carry and Democrats said it was
going to be like the Wild West.
We certainly haven't seen that.
It's been very responsible.
We see tens of thousands of Wisconsinites getting a
concealed carry permit without issue.
So I certainly am open to the discussion but I want to make
sure Governor Walker and my colleagues are in the same place.
- What about banning fetal tissue research?
- There's two competing bills.
I think they both have merits.
Neither one has the ability to pass in our caucus at this
point.
We'll continue the discussions to try to find common ground.
I think the vast majority of Republicans have considered
themselves pro-life and we want to make sure we do those things,
but we're also pro-research.
And that's why I have
a preference between the two bills.
But certainly either one addresses that concern.
- What about civil forfeiture reform?
- That's something that we have talked about.
I've been a supporter of that for a long time.
Representative Mark Born has taken the lead in our caucus to
try to find a consensus between those who worry about protecting
people's fourth amendment rights but also the ability of law
enforcement to use those funds to help combat drugs and all the
opioid crisis we have.
We'll find a consensus and
I hope we're able to pass that too.
- So you're not stopping down bills.
- Not at all, as long as they're good ideas.
- Why didn't you appoint any Democrats to the task force that
will study building a new prison?
- Yeah, it's actually not about just building a new prison.
I mean I know once again, continuing with their theme,
it's all politics all the time.
I was incredibly disappointed that one of the first things
that Gordon Hintz did was to take somebody off of WEDC,
as a Democrat appointee, who had been there the entire time to
understand the Foxconn deal and put somebody on who was running
as a Democrat for governor.
It's not surprising to me that as we are not talking about
reforming sentencing or any of those kinds of things,
that is not part of this commission's purview.
It's really looking at the fact that we're at 142% of our prison
capacity and we do not have the ability to put more people in
jail without additional facilities.
- Why no Democrats on the task force?
- Yeah, we had three people came to me during the budget
process: Michael Schraa is the chairman of the corrections
committee.
Mark Born is our expert on correctional issues.
And we also had David Steffen who asked for it.
So those three asked for it.
Those three got on.
- What do you think about the potential for Democratic gains
in next year's elections?
- You know it's interesting because I've heard this now ever
since 2010 that of course, after the recall we're going to make gains.
We gained a seat.
In 2014 of course Governor Walker was on the ballot.
It was supposed to be a repudiation of him.
We gained a seat.
Here we are in 2016 with Donald Trump on the ballot.
They guaranteed they were going to make gains and we gained
another one.
I saw what happened in Virginia.
The vast majority of those gains were in seats that Hillary
Clinton carried in 2016.
We don't have many of those in Wisconsin.
She was not carrying Wisconsin as a state.
I'm confident we'll maintain a good,
strong majority and continue our conservative reforms.
- Robin Vos, thanks very much.
- Thanks, Fred.
- Speaker Vos holds a commanding majority of 64 out of
99 members.
Minority Leader Gordon Hintz of course
hopes to pick up a few seats.
He joins us now.
Thanks for doing so.
- Thanks for having me.
- Robin Vos says he's not worried at all about Democrats
picking up any seats in the next election.
What do you say to that?
- Well that's the Speaker's prerogative.
I think the big thing we have going for us that we saw in
Virginia last week is we've had eight years of failed Republican
leadership, both by the legislature and the governor.
After eight years, we literally have cracks in our
transportation infrastructure.
I think that we've seen that we've cut funding for the UW
system significantly.
We've had cuts to K-12 education and mostly we've had ineffective
economic growth.
We're a little more than half the national average.
We lag behind our neighboring states.
Everything that the governor has promised hasn't worked.
Lower-- bad economic growth and we've done it at sacrificing our
environment and our future financial security in terms of
budgets.
- So you think that resonates with the voters because one of
the messages of course of the administration is the
unemployment rate is historically low.
- Wisconsin has always had a lower unemployment rate than the
national average.
If you have low unemployment but slow job growth,
that's not an economic indicator.
What that shows is you have a people shortage.
One of the things we've seen over the last five years is
we've had an out-migration of working age people to other
states where there's greater opportunity and no one's moving here.
I think this is going to be one of the telling narratives of the 2018 election.
Jobs will follow people.
And if you don't have clean drinking water,
if you don't have well-funded public transportation systems,
if you don't have innovative and dynamic communities that are
funded partially by the state, this isn't going to be an
attractive place for people to live.
- Foxconn is now signed and delivered and on its way.
Of course, Speaker Vos thinks that means it's a great day in
Wisconsin.
Are most of your members still sour on it?
- It's not just our members who are sour.
It's the public statewide.
Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find too many people maybe
outside of southeast Wisconsin that thinks it's a good idea to
give $3 billion of taxpayer money to a foreign corporation,
the largest taxpayer subsidy in United States history,
when the best potential payback if everything happens is 25
years.
We've had a number of start-ups, small business people say if we
had spent a fourth of that supporting new business
investments, growing small business, providing capital,
you'd be a lot better economically.
- It's a done deal now.
Anything to do?
- Hold them accountable.
Look, if it's going to happen, I hope it's the best deal
possible, but I want to make sure that we are getting good
information, that we're holding WEDC accountable.
Their track record hasn't been great.
When you're charging that agency with both the oversight and the
enforcement, I think there are a lot of questions to ask.
But yeah.
I mean, look, I hope for the best,
but the reality is the opportunity cost is the biggest
loss for Wisconsin taxpayers.
- Speaking of WEDC, we asked Robin Vos why there were no
Democrats on the prison task force and he said because his
members approached him and wanted to be on it.
So this is where the WEDC part comes in.
He said that by way of explaining this,
he said that he took issue with you assigning Dana Wachs to the
WEDC board when he's running for governor.
Was that appointment a politically deliberate one on
your part?
- Only in the sense that-- no.
My colleague Dana has been an outspoken critic of Foxconn.
He's an attorney who's used to reading a lot of detailed
contract language.
Certainly wanted someone who I thought was going to hold things
accountable.
He's a legislative colleague.
I'm the Minority Leader.
I wanted to put someone on there who I knew was going to hold
this governor and administration accountable.
- What about the prison task force?
Are you upset that there were no Dems on that
that Vos was appointing?
- I'm more disappointed.
Every other committee that we have, they come across,
tell us they just created a new international committee,
asked us for six members.
Senator Fitzgerald obviously reached out to Senator Shilling
and asked for a Democrat on there.
I think it has more to do with hiding the fact
that there is no prison policy.
That our numbers are only escalating,
that the costs are costing taxpayers hundreds of millions
of dollars more.
They don't want to be held accountable.
You can hide behind the whole appointment thing but the
reality is the speaker and this governor's track record on
corrections is a disaster.
- Do you have any idea whether or not the governor will appoint
a Democrat?
- I don't.
But we had a number of members, especially our minority members,
who have a lot of communities of color who are
disproportionately-impacted by our correction policies.
And I think it would be a good move on his part if this
committee is actually going to have any meaning or
effectiveness at addressing a lot of problems
with our criminal justice system.
- All right, lots more to talk about but we'll leave it there.
Thanks very much. - Thanks for having me.
- Now a look ahead to the 2018 governor's race and the latest
in a growing list of announced Democratic primary candidates.
This week Mahlon Mitchell entered the race.
His second try at state-wide office.
He ran unsuccessfully for lieutenant governor during the
Walker recall election of 2012.
He is the president of Professional Firefighters
of Wisconsin.
Mahlon Mitchell joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.
- Thanks for having me again. It's been a while.
- Yeah.
We talk about this big cast of Democratic candidates.
What sets you apart?
- Well, I think it's leadership.
I've been a firefighter for 20 years,
giving back to my community.
As firefighters, we lead. We don't divide.
We unite each other.
We have one common goal and that is to help others.
As firefighters we respond to those
on the worst days of their lives.
When they are at their worst, we have to be at our best.
So doing that for 20 years, giving back to the community,
leading, I want to take that some style of leadership to the
executive branch in our state capitol and bring people
together and do what's right for all people in the state of
Wisconsin.
- On the issues, what do you think is the most important
thing Wisconsin needs to do for its education system?
- We need to fully fund it.
We need to get back to levels that actually give the resources
and the real tools for our teachers to teach our greatest
commodity which are our children.
I have a son in 8th grade.
I have a daughter that's a freshman at UW-Oshkosh.
Education is one of the most important things and a pillars
of the state of Wisconsin.
You can't take $1.6 billion from public education in your first
two budgets and then put $600 million back in your last budget
before you run for office and call that progress.
We need to actually fund our schools,
make sure we take care of our greatest commodity,
which is our children.
- If the Affordable Care Act remains in place,
would you like to accept expanded Medicaid in Wisconsin?
- Yes, I think we should have done that.
We have to-- one of the core issues we're going to talk about
around the state is health care.
We should have taken the Medicaid expansion.
There should never be a time where a child can't go to the
doctor because their parents can't afford it.
There should never be a time where a senior has to decide
between paying their rent or getting their prescriptions
filled.
It's just one of the core things that-- and we talk about
economics.
One of the core things in someone's checkbook or their own
pocket, in their own financial status,
is health care and paying premiums,
co-pays and deductibles.
We need to make health care more affordable.
We can do that in Wisconsin.
- What in your mind is the best way to grow good-paying jobs in
Wisconsin?
- I think we need to invest in Wisconsinites that are here now.
I think we need job training and apprenticeship programs and need
to build around our ecosystem we have in place now.
We need to raise wages.
And once we raise wages, when we have more as the middle class
and those living below middle class wages, we spend the money.
And when we're spending more money,
there's more goods and services that need to be produced.
More goods and services need to be produced,
more jobs need to be created.
That's more people working.
It drives our economy.
- What's your position on the $3 billion Foxconn deal,
which is now moving ahead?
- Look, it's signed into law.
But let's talk about what Foxconn really is.
It's a massive giveaway of $3 billion of hard-earned taxpayer
dollars to a foreign company.
What we need to do is invest in our infrastructure we have now.
You can't say that we don't have money for education,
we don't have enough money to adequately fund our roads,
we don't have enough money to take care of our people with
health care, but we have enough money
to give $3 billion to a foreign company.
We need to build our roads.
We need to make sure our education system is fully funded.
We need to make sure people have decent health care.
We need to raise wages.
Once we do those things, people will come to Wisconsin.
We won't have to give a golden parachute to a foreign company.
They'll want to come here.
Foxconn would come here without us giving them $3 billion
because we have the great workforce in Wisconsin.
- You've talked twice about raising wages.
How do you do that?
- You have to have family-sustaining jobs.
The governor talks a lot about the unemployment rate,
which is low.
But there's more to an economy, there's more to our state than
just the unemployment rate.
You actually have to build jobs from the inside out,
meaning that you have to have job training and apprenticeship
for sustaining jobs.
Right now, the governor talks about our unemployment rate,
but people are working two or three jobs just to make ends
meet.
We actually have to have family-sustaining jobs.
- What in your mind would be the best way to create
sustainable funding for Wisconsin's highways?
- I think we need to look at the gas tax.
I mean there's a lot of options on the table.
I know there's been talk about toll roads.
We need to get back together, have bipartisan legislation.
We need to sit down at the table and make sure that we fully fund
our roads.
We're 49th right now as far as roads go in the country.
That's unacceptable.
We need to look at the gas tax.
We need to look at different ways to fully fund our roads.
The gas tax, I think, a minimal tax,
is one way that we can help build our roads back again.
- Why do you think you could unseat Scott Walker?
- Well, I think it's going to take
a different type of candidate.
We've been with Governor Walker for eight years.
Eight years to do the things we just talked about.
And he hasn't led.
He ran for president, which God bless him,
that's his right to do.
But for him right now, Wisconsin's plan B.
We need leadership in the capitol.
We need leadership from our governor.
We haven't seen that in the last eight years.
So now he's coming back in plan B
and asking for years 9, 10, 11 and 12.
It's time for a change.
It's time for us to turn a page.
We need leadership and I believe I can provide that leadership
that's needed desperately in the state of Wisconsin.
- Mahlon Mitchell, thanks very much.
- Thank you.
- We have some sad news this week as Wisconsin Public
Television mourns the loss of one of our own.
Nancy Zieman, the long-time host of "Sewing with Nancy" passed
away Tuesday after a long battle with cancer.
Zieman took to the air in 1982 to share her love of sewing with
her audience.
After 35 years, she hosted the longest-running sewing show on
television.
The program continues to air on public television stations
across the United States.
A long-time producer with the show, Laurie Gorman,
says of Zieman, Nancy was a savvy entrepreneur,
talented colleague and dear friend.
She will be greatly missed by the staff at WPT and her many
viewers and fans across the country.
Zieman is survived by her husband and two children.
And finally tonight, a look ahead to next week,
when in the midst of the gun deer season,
we will have an update on the status of chronic wasting
disease in Wisconsin.
I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.
- Funding for "Here and Now" is provided, in part,
by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.