- Now to the state legislature and tonight's capitol insight.
Sponsors of a Senate measure to approve a constitutional
convention say its passage this week makes Wisconsin the 28th
state to approve such a resolution.
If 34 states approve, convention delegates can be called to draft
amendments to the U.S. Constitution.
Republican proponents of the convention say they would focus
on an amendment to require a balanced federal budget.
But what else could be possible?
We turned to Wisconsin Public Radio's Capitol Bureau Chief
Shawn Johnson.
Thanks for being here.
- Hey, Fred.
- In your reporting, you referred to this
as an Article 5 resolution.
What is Article 5?
- It refers to Article 5 of the U.S. Constitution,
which is a fairly short passage that talks about
how you can amend the Constitution.
And the way that this country has done it
for the previous 27 amendments is a different process.
We have a two-thirds vote in the U.S. House,
two-thirds vote in the U.S. Senate
and then ratification
by three-quarters of the state legislatures.
This would be a completely different process.
What we're talking about here and what passed the Wisconsin
Senate this past week, this would be a so-called convention
of states.
Where if two-thirds of states agree,
they can petition Congress to form this Article 5 convention
and then they can propose pretty much whatever they want.
- So after 230 years, the Wisconsin legislature believes
the time is now to push for this Article 5 resolution
and this balanced budget amendment?
- It really has been, you know, that long.
Going back to 1787, this hasn't been used.
So it would be a -- you know, an extremely big deal,
an historic process.
And when you listen to supporters of this,
they say they don't take it lightly and that if you look
back at the great civilizations, the thing that has always
toppled them has been debt.
And they feel like debt is growing too large
in the United States right now.
And that it's a national security threat it's so bad.
- Well, let's take a listen to what one of the Republican
backers, Senator Dave Craig, had to say about this on
the Senate floor.
- Article 5 was put in place specifically for the situation
in which Congress, the federal government,
needs assistance from the states,
by which under our Constitution, the federal government derives
its power.
To somehow say on this body's floor
that this is not within our purview is ridiculous.
- But what are the rules about whether just one amendment
like this could be added?
- That's the thing.
There are no restrictions like that in the Constitution.
So if this convention is called, even though the states have said
we're calling it to talk about this balanced budget amendment
and a number of -- Wisconsin passed a resolution spelling out
what the convention would be about.
They passed a bill that said here's who would be our
delegates.
Once the convention is called, constitutional experts say
there's nothing that restricts what delegates can do.
And so they could consider amendments on any number of
issues, including to existing protections
that are in the U.S. Constitution.
- Understood why people might consider that a slippery slope.
- Yeah.
And that was the argument that you heard from opponents of
this, which in this case were the Democratic members of the
State Senate.
Democratic Senator Kathleen Vinehout was among those who
said, "If you call this convention,
you're opening up all these protections that people hold
dear." Here is Senator Kathleen Vinehout.
- As rewriters of the United States Constitution,
the delegates become the sovereign power in the land.
More powerful than the United States Congress,
more powerful than the United States Supreme Court,
more powerful than the United States President.
- So we should note that Kathleen Vinehout is one of the
Democrats running for governor.
But now how do sponsors of this reconcile the idea that the tax
plan in Washington is kind of on the fast track and the CBO says
that this would add $1.7 trillion to the deficit?
How do reductions in revenue square
with potential needs for government spending?
I know opponents of the balanced budget amendment have
some concerns along these lines.
Like what? - Yeah.
I mean, if you sort of set aside the concerns laid out there by
Senator Vinehout and others that this could open a Pandora's box
and that you could have any amendment to the Constitution,
set that aside.
Let's say that they just focus on a balanced budget amendment.
What does that mean, you know?
What is a balanced budget amendment?
If you're talking about not letting the government spend
more than it takes in, that would reduce debt,
but it would be a dramatic departure from the way
government as we know it operates now.
What does that mean if you have a big tax cut bill?
What does that mean if you have a war?
What does it mean if you have a natural disaster like
a hurricane and suddenly you need more money than you have
to pay for it?
These are all questions that are, you know,
raised by the prospect of a balanced budget amendment,
especially since you don't know what that would look like.
It would be up to delegates.
- Now, as we discussed in the lead to this segment,
34 states would have to pass this resolution.
How likely is this to happen?
- We don't know.
You know, there's really no way to say.
I think as more and more states get added to the list,
you start to realize, hey, they're getting
kind of close to that number.
28 is probably-- looks pretty high to people
who started this push years ago.
And so yeah, you're six states away at this point.
A little caveat there.
If they were to get up to that 34 threshold,
there would be some debate
over whether or not they'd hit that number.
Because some of these resolutions
were passed decades ago.
And so there would be some dispute,
there is some dispute over whether or not
those are still valid.
Some of them are calling for slightly different language
than others.
And so when would you hit that number?
That would be debated even if they hit that 34
according to sponsors.
- All right. Well, thanks for spelling this out for us.
Shawn Johnson.
- You're welcome.