- From health care to water.
A Dane County judge has revoked the permit
of eight high-capacity wells saying,
"The DNR violated the state constitution
"when issuing the permits."
In tonight's Inside Look, we are joined by Carl Sinderbrand,
the lead attorney on the case for Clean Wisconsin,
the environmental advocacy group that filed the lawsuit.
Thanks for your time today. - My pleasure.
- This lawsuit's a little convoluted.
The DNR staff initially denied the permits
for these high-capacity wells
saying they'd have an adverse impact on nearby waterways.
But then it was the attorney general's ruling
that overruled that, right?
- Close.
The DNR staff, the scientists, the hydrologists,
the engineers recognized the adverse impacts
to our navigable waters that would happen
and recommended that almost all of them be denied
and others severely constrained.
DNR sat on those applications for a couple of years.
In the interim, the attorney general issued this opinion
in May of 2016, saying, "DNR does not have the authority
"to protect public trust navigable waters,"
so they then approved them.
- That led to a lawsuit because the public trust
is enshrined in the Constitution.
- Correct, yes.
It is part of our organic law.
It was in the Northwest Ordinance of 1787,
so it predates statehood.
It was in our Constitution from the inception.
And it says that the navigable waters of the state
belong to the public and the state has a duty
to proactively protect and preserve
those public trust waters.
And in everything it does as a state
that affects those public trust waters,
those navigable waters, lakes, streams, navigable wetlands,
the state has the duty to protect them.
- Now, this is a big issue.
These high-capacity wells are being used
to refine frac sand, they're used in CAFOs,
large industrial dairy operations
and large-scale food production
and a lot of those are partisan political operations.
So this isn't going away in the future.
The legislature's constantly looking at laws for this.
- It's a struggle because there is this
overriding constitutional principle and duty
that has been reinforced by our Supreme Court unanimously
for over 100 years.
And it's our Constitution
that is the supreme law of our land.
The state legislature cannot diminish it,
cannot abrogate it.
And so, efforts by the state legislature and the governor
and DNR and now the attorney general,
to provide benefits to their campaign contributors,
big industry, at the expense of the public
just won't wash when it comes to protecting our waters.
- Now, this isn't the first time a Republican law
or in this case a ruling by a Dane County judge
has been overturned.
We're looking at Act 10, Voter ID, Right to Work.
Republicans were confident.
Every one of those cases that the Dane County ruling
would eventually reach a very conservative Supreme Court
and then rule in their favor.
Why is this time different in your opinion?
- Well, I don't know that it will be different.
I'm sure that Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce,
which represents the older, dirtier industries,
and the attorney general who is very partisan,
are going to appeal this.
But our Supreme Court, this Supreme Court,
as well as past Supreme Courts, have had a knack
for recognizing the incredible importance
of our navigable waters to our economy,
to our quality of life, to who we are,
to our identity as Wisconsinites.
Our foundation is in Pere Marquette and other trappers
coming by water, settling by water, trading by water.
Our lakes in southeastern Wisconsin used to provide ice
to the Chicago area.
We are so economically and really spiritually
tied to waters of the state.
In 2011, I had a case, the Lake Beulah case
in front of the Supreme Court,
and that was a pure public trust case
relating specifically to the duty of DNR
to protect these waters when acting on wells.
It was a unanimous decision
upholding the public trust doctrine.
So I wouldn't assume that our Supreme Court
is going to take a partisan bent on this issue.
- All right.
Well, we will keep watching as will you, Carl Sinderbrand,
thanks for your time. - You're very welcome.
Thank you.