>> I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here and Now,"
a "First Look" at two get
tough on juvenile crime bills at
the state capitol.
After that a "Closer Look" at a
fire-filled week in Washington
and a
between-the-state-conventions
look at Wisconsin party
politics.
Then a "Look Ahead" into weekend
clean-up activities in
tornado-ravaged Barron County.
It's "Here and Now" for May 19.
>> Funding for "Here and Now" is
provided, in part,
by Friends of
Wisconsin Public Television.
>> A "First Look" tonight at two
juvenile crime bills making
their way through the capitol.
Both pertain to minors who are
part of what's called the
Serious Juvenile Offender
Program.
The program is for juveniles who
commit a limited number of very
serious felonies for which an
adult offender would be subject
to life in prison and who are
judged a danger to the public.
The first bill would extend the
time a juvenile offender can be
incarcerated.
The second expands the list of
offenses for which a juvenile
can be sent to a corrections
facility.
Republican State Representative
Joe Sanfelippo is the primary
sponsor of the bills.
He joins us from Waukesha and
thanks very much for doing so.
>> Thanks for having me on.
I appreciate it.
>> So taking these bills
separately, what do you
specifically call for in
terms of extending the time that
a juvenile can be incarcerated?
>> So under our present statute,
a juvenile can be incarcerated
up to age 25,
but there's a three-year cap on
the amount of time for
incarceration.
So let's say we have a juvenile
that's 15 years old,
commits a very serious crime,
ends up in the SJOP program.
By the time they're 18,
regardless of whether or not the
system feels that they still
pose a danger to society,
they have to be let out.
And so what this bill would do
is would take the three-year cap
off and allow them to be able to
stay in incarceration longer if
the system determines that they
still are posing a grave threat.
But it also does another thing
in that sometimes these
juveniles are let out but they--
you know, before they've spent
three years in crime--
three years in incarceration.
And what we're hearing then from
the people who monitor them and
put them on supervision is that
if they know that they can't go
beyond the three years,
it just takes away an incentive
for them to try to behave a
little better once they're in
society because they know no
matter what do they can't be
sent back for that crime because
they've already hit their three
year limit.
>> Interesting.
The other bill expands the list
of crimes that could land a
juvenile who's 14 years old and
older in a correctional facility
or secured residential care
center to any adult felony
crime.
So like felony theft?
>> That's correct.
Now, again,
in conjunction with the crime
that they are adjudicated for,
the judge also has to determine
that the juvenile poses a very
serious threat or grave danger
to society.
So a juvenile who would be
convicted of felony theft,
if the judge doesn't feel that
they don't pose a great threat
to society,
they wouldn't go in the SJOP
program.
So we're talking about very
serious offenders,
habitual offenders.
The people that have maybe gone
through the system a couple of
times before,
gone through some rehabilitative
programs and alternative
programs but those programs just
haven't worked.
>> You obviously think the
current law is too soft on
juvenile crime?
>> So you have to remember the
current juvenile code's about 40
years old.
And it's been updated once or
twice since then.
But I think one of the police
chiefs that we spoke with while
we spent the past two years
investigating this summed it up
best.
He said,
"Our juvenile code was written
for Wally and the Beaver,
but those aren't the kids we're
dealing with right now."
Our juveniles today are involved
in more violent crimes than we
thought they would be even 40
years ago.
That's why the list of felonies
that can land them in the SJOP
program right now is a very,
small limited group,
like first-degree homicide.
So we're expanding that only
just to fit the trend that we're
seeing much more violent crimes
that juveniles are taking part
of.
>> Are there specific kinds of
cases or is there specific
motivation for these bills?
>> So I think if you take a look
overall, just the seriousness or
the escalation and the violence
of the crimes
that are being committed.
You know,
40 years ago if a juvenile stole
a car,
most likely they took one out of
somebody's driveway who had left
the keys in the car or something
like that.
Today we see them taking
weapons.
I mean 13, 14,
15-year-old kids with guns
sticking them in the face of
mothers who in some instances
have children in the back seat
of their vehicles and they're
forcibly taking them from their
cars.
They're going in and robbing
stores with guns.
They're just involved in much
more violent crime than they
were in the past.
So what we're looking at --
quite frankly,
when you talk to everybody
involved in the criminal justice
system,
no matter what side of the
spectrum they're on,
everybody agrees with one thing,
that the juvenile code is
outdated and the entire code
needs to be updated.
That's a large undertaking.
This bill here deals with one
small segment of it.
>> Wisconsin's juvenile prisons
are under investigation into
alleged inmate abuse as you
know.
Does it concern you to
potentially have more inmates
with longer sentences at Lincoln
Hills and Copper Lake?
>> So nobody wants to see the
problems that are alleged to
have occurred at Lincoln Hills
continue into the past.
I think our new secretary,
Secretary Litscher,
has done a great job of making
some improvements.
We're going to be getting a
report back from the FBI that
tells us if more improvement is
needed and exactly what has to
be done and whatever has
happened there we have to fix.
But we have to remember,
of the thousands of juveniles
that go through the juvenile
justice system every year.
Last year we averaged 158
juveniles in this system.
So it's not a large number of
people.
Now,
that's not to minimize the
problems that may have
occurred there in the past.
But the people or the kids that
we're sending there are serious,
hard core criminals that the
age.
Whether they're 15 or 25,
they have committed some really
serious, heinous crimes.
Enough that a judge has
determined they pose a grave
threat to society,
which is what landed them in
there in the first place.
So we can't only focus on the
facility itself.
We have to recognize we have a
duty to protect innocent
citizens from becoming victims
of these violent offenders and
in many cases repeat violent
offenders.
>> All right.
We leave it there.
Representative Sanfellipo,
thanks very much.
>> Thank you.
I appreciate your time.
>> Assembly Democratic Evan
Goyke is a former public
defender who sits on the
Criminal Justice and Public
Safety Committee.
We spoke with him at the capitol
and started by asking his
reaction to these bills.
>> They are addressing a crime
problem in the reverse order.
So Lincoln Hills,
which is the only type one,
secure location for juveniles in
the state of Wisconsin,
is a broken institution.
It's still under investigation.
There are lawsuits pending.
And even aside from that,
evidence tells us that that
model,
one big institution far away
from the population centers of
the state, is less productive.
It has less rehabilitative
ability and we have to fix that
setting.
Fix our juvenile incarceration
system before we start sending
more kids to prison.
So I think that there are,
you know -- deterring crime is a
laudable goal,
but if you're not fixing the
institution that we now know is
broken,
you should stop sending kids
there before you fix that
problem.
>> What about the intent of the
bills,
which is to combat crime
perpetrated by whom the authors
call habitual,
violent offenders?
>> So I think there is a nugget
of truth in that language.
That there are a very small
number of people,
young people or old people,
that commit a lot of crime.
And targeting those individuals,
whether that's through treatment
or through incarceration,
is smart.
But the bills that we're talking
about don't do that.
They cast a very wide net.
And they will not have the
deterrent effect that the author
is promising.
And I think you and I can
probably agree 15-year-olds and
16-year-olds probably aren't
watching this program.
They probably aren't watching us
debate these bills.
They're impulsive young people.
So whether or not,
something has ten years or five
years or three years,
isn't sinking into the mind of a
young people.
It just isn't.
That's just the nature of being
young.
So our approach to deterring
crime needs to be different.
>> So you don't think that
people, quote,
on the street know that all of a
sudden they can get a lot more
time and they might rethink
their actions?
>> Some maybe.
Sometimes I'm sure that happens.
But I can tell you just in my
neighborhood that that -- if I
stop the random person walking
down the street in my
neighborhood and ask them what's
the going criminal penalty for
x, y and z, they wouldn't know.
They wouldn't know.
>> Authors call these bills a
victim prevention package.
You represent Milwaukee as
you've just suggested.
What better way then to punish,
deter and rehabilitate juvenile
offenders?
>> Sure, well first on the label
that these are a victim package.
Pay attention.
The bills do nothing for crime
victims.
They don't add services.
They don't add access to
treatment or rehabil -- it
doesn't improve the crime victim
fund in the state of Wisconsin.
So the promise of these bills
being victim-centric is that
they'll deter crime through
heightened criminal penalties.
For 40 years in this state,
we've increased criminal
penalties.
And it hasn't deterred crime.
Since I've been elected in 2012,
the legislature has passed 50
bills that have either increased
criminal penalties or created a
new crime.
And we've passed zero that
reduce those penalties.
But crime is going up.
So it simply doesn't work.
So what is the alternative?
The alternative is early
intervention.
And this is going to sound maybe
a little bit hard for some
people to really understand,
but early childhood education,
zero to three,
following these kids through the
system,
wrapping them with services and
with love and support as they
age through educational systems
is the best way to deter crime.
If you go to Lincoln Hills today
and you did a survey of all of
the kids that are there.
How many of those youth had a
CHIPS case,
a Child In Need of Protection
and Services.
The warden tells me it's
somewhere between 80% and 90%.
That means sometime in their
life they had neglect or abuse.
Some trauma happened when they
were younger.
And we see often very risky,
bad behavior as a result of some
trauma that that young person
can't process.
So fixing the trauma is how you
deter the behavior.
>> A certain number of judges,
as you know,
are reluctant if not refusing
altogether to sentence juveniles
to Lincoln Hills.
If these bills became law,
what kind of pressure does that
put on this system?
>> It sends a clear message to
judges that the legislature,
the elected officials of the
state of Wisconsin,
want judges to send more youth
to Lincoln Hills.
It's very dangerous.
And if you give them that nudge,
they'll send the kids there.
And the bills greatly broaden
the number of crimes that would
be called serious juvenile
offender program.
That's a program currently
reserved for very risky,
very violent kids.
And under some of these
proposals,
we would potentially lump a
retail thief or a drug processor
into the same category as an
armed robber.
And that's not right.
The system -- Lincoln Hills is
not designed for that type of
child.
And it shouldn't be used.
It's an overreaction to their
behavior.
This is again something that's
kind of hard for people to
understand,
but sometimes incarceration
makes a kid worse.
So we know that if a good kid
who's low-risk and maybe does
something impulsive but has a
good foundation and will grow up
to not re-offend.
If we put him in a cell with a
kid that is very high-risk,
the good kid is not making the
bad kid better.
It's the other way around.
And that's why parents worry
about who their kids hang out
with.
And that's why my mom made me
call from my sleepover when I
was 12 to verify I was where --
she didn't want me hanging
around the wrong crowd.
These bills have the potential
of sending low,
non-risky kids into the very
last setting we should be
sending them, into a prison.
>> We need to leave it there.
Thanks very much.
>> Thanks.
>> Daily headlines this week out
of Washington on the
investigations into the Trump
campaign's relationship with
Russia.
Midweek the Justice Department
appointed former FBI Director
Robert Mueller as Special
Counsel to lead investigations
into questions of Trump-Russia
ties.
The move sparked reaction from
Congressional leaders,
including Wisconsin Congressman
House Speaker Paul Ryan.
>> I believe that the
professionals at the Justice
Department need to do their jobs
independently,
objectively and thoroughly.
And I believe the Special
Counsel,
which is Robert Mueller now
helps them do that.
>> From Washington politics to
Wisconsin politics and some
"Capitol Insight,
" as the partisan firestorm
rages in Washington,
party politics in Wisconsin gets
down to business with the annual
state party conventions.
Last weekend Republicans
gathered in Wisconsin Dells.
Early next month state Dems
convene in theirs in Madison.
Between the conventions we
thought it was a good time to
take stock of the parties'
strengths and weaknesses as a
midterm election year
approaches.
Here to help with that,
Capitol Consultant's managing
partner and Republican Bill
McCoshen.
Democrat Scot Ross is the
executive director of One
Wisconsin Now.
Thanks to both of you for being
here.
>> Thanks for having us.
>> Our lead describes what's
going on in Washington right now
as a firestorm.
What do you guys make of
everything that's going on?
First to you.
>> I don't think we've ever seen
-- I mean as bad as we thought
things would be,
I think that they're
exponentially worse.
Every single day we--
you ask yourself this has gone
on, this has gone on,
this has gone on. Oh wait.
It's only Tuesday afternoon.
It's been a disaster.
Most importantly for I think the
Republicans,
they're not able to get their
agenda going.
That's the trouble with what's
going on with Trump is that they
can't get and execute the agenda
they promised both their base
and independents that they'd be
able to deliver.
>> I would agree with Scot on
that.
I wouldn't call it a disaster.
I'd call it a distraction and a
significant distraction.
The one thing we learned about
Donald Trump during the election
last year was he's unorthodox
and unpredictable.
There were times where guys even
like me predicted he was done in
the primary process and proved
to be wrong time and time and
time again.
So that strategy or model worked
for him as a candidate.
I'm not so sure it's going to
work governing.
And so far it's been a fairly
significant distraction.
>> But is this as bad as all of
that or is this as much about
the 24-hour news cycle flogging
this every minute?
>> I'd say this, I mean,
if you look at the S.S. Trump,
which, really,
the only difference between it
and the Titanic is there were
life boats on the Titanic.
Look at what's happened to the
golden god of Wisconsin
politics, Paul Ryan.
This was a guy who was not only
unchallenged by opponents for
the most part or Democrats in
his own district,
but this is a guy who was
considered the intellectual
firestorm,
the intellectual giant of the
Republican Party.
He's now considered--
>> The mistakes Democrats have
made in the first 120 days of
the Trump administration is
everything is a 12,
a fever pitch against him and it
just rallies Trump supporters.
They got to choose their battles
a little more carefully then
they may have an opportunity to
make some inroads.
>> What about the way, though,
that Wisconsin Congressional
people are having to respond to
this?
Like Paul Ryan.
I mean this puts people in a
really difficult spot.
>> I think they've learned not
to respond.
They've basically said I'm going
to wait and see what the facts
are.
That's the better model.
Back in the campaign cycle,
Congressman Ryan,
Congressman Grothman,
others did have comments on
every issue of the day.
It's just not a good strategy.
You might as well wait for all
the facts to come out and be
sure before you make a
statement.
>> I think that -- again,
I think you say some salient
things,
but I think there are three
politicians in Wisconsin tied to
Donald Trump.
Paul Ryan,
Reince Priebus and Scott Walker.
And Scott Walker's on the ballot
in 2018, as is Paul Ryan.
I think that's where the real
challenge is.
How do they distance themselves
in a way that doesn't alienate
the base,
but recognizes that there are a
lot of people out there who have
real concerns about what's going
on every single day in
Washington D.C.?
>> We know this.
Typically the party in power
loses seats during the midterms.
That's been the historic
precedent.
Whether that happens in 2018
remains to be seen.
If they get health care done and
they get a major tax package
done,
I'm not so sure they couldn't
actually add seats on the
Republican side.
>> You think this kind of
controversy in Washington would
be in the rear view if that were
to happen for the 2018 election?
>> He's got to get his agenda
done.
And that's why these other
things are such a distraction.
If they can get health care done
this fall.
If they can get tax reform done
this fall,
I think 2018 could actually be a
very good year for Republicans.
>> And yet those investigations
will keep on going, right?
>> Hopefully, you know,
I wasn't a Jim Comey fan.
Truthfully Democrats weren't
fans of Jim Comey last October
when he came out against Clinton
with eight days,
ten days to go in the election,
right?
So I think it's probably good
that he's gone.
Robert Mueller is above
reproach.
High integrity guy.
Hopefully these things will
happen expeditiously and get
them behind us.
Whatever the facts are,
they are.
>> So what about that,
about Comey?
As a Democrat you didn't like
him and you still don't like
him?
>> I mean I thought it was
outrageous.
But what Donald Trump did is
unprecedented.
That's the thing.
The Democrats can do a level
four and Donald Trump comes and
does a level 13.
And that's where I think that's
where-- you know,
the comparison level for
alternatives do not exist at
this point,
120 days into an administration
in American history.
>> We've never had a president
that's this accessible to the
press either.
He's had how many press
conferences in the first 120
days?
At least one a week.
It's stunning how open and
accessible he is to the press.
And it creates problems for his
staff, frankly.
They're out there saying one
thing and then he oftentimes
contradicts them.
>> As for state party politics,
I'm going to ask you each to
describe the other party.
So Bill McCoshen,
how would you describe the state
of the Democratic Party?
>> I'd say it's in disarray.
They lack leadership.
They clearly lack an agenda,
and they're losing working
people.
This is a party that my mom and
dad grew up in.
They couldn't identify with it
today.
The Democratic Party of today is
all about identity politics and
that's not a winning strategy.
They need a different formula if
they're going to be successful
moving forward.
>> Let me have you respond to
that, your own party.
>> To my own party?
>> Yes.
>> Well,
as a Democrat I have concerns
about what's been the Democratic
economic message over say the
last 25 years.
Somebody who's a member of
Generation X.
It's been Social Security,
Medicare,
and is my employer-provided
pension under threat.
Those don't exist for post-Baby
Boomers.
What does exist for post-Baby
Boomers is student loan debt.
And I think that's where the
Democrats can make their
inroads.
43 million people have student
loan debt in the United States.
One million in Wisconsin.
They're regular voters.
So if the Democrats who have
embraced student loan reforms
can get that into the campaign
debate,
I think they're going to have a
good time on 2018.
>> How would you describe the
state of the Republican Party in
Wisconsin?
>> Well, I mean, again,
they're tied to that Trump
thing, which is a real problem.
And I just look at where Scott
Walker is now compared to where
he was at this time in the 2014
cycle.
He's nine points down in terms
of popularity from the Franklin
polls at the same time.
And he's got a heck of a lot
less money than he had then.
And he has to make the case to
be -- I think -- maybe I'm wrong
on this -- would be the only
governor to ever serve more than
two terms.
How does he make that case?
Wisconsin deserves the best.
If you don't feel you're getting
the best,
Scott Walker is to blame.
>> Your response.
>> My former boss,
Tommy Thompson was elected
governor four times so there is
another one.
I'd say this,
Scott Walker has built probably
the strongest grassroots GOP
organization in the state's
history.
And that includes the campaign I
ran for Governor Thompson in
1994.
Even though his poll numbers are
not great today.
He's got a lot of time to
improve those and I'd say he's
the heavy favorite in 2018.
>> All right.
Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross.
Thanks.
Also this week,
another rough audit for the
state's flagship agency in
charge of job creation.
The Legislative Audit Bureau
reported that in the last six
months of 2016 the Wisconsin
Economic Development
Corporation, or the WEDC,
did improve its grant and loan
contracts by including
provisions requiring repayment
of loans,
but did not require recipients
to detail whether jobs were
created or retained.
The audit also showed the amount
of loans made to businesses that
may go uncollected went from
$1.3 million at the end of 2014
to $11 million by the end of
last year.
Saying operations had improved,
the legislature's Joint Finance
Committee last week lifted a ban
enacted in the last state
budget that prohibited WEDC from
issuing new loans because of the
agency's problems.
The JFC did not revisit
that decision
in light of this week's audit.
>> And dozens of people are
still recovering tonight after a
deadly EF2 tornado ripped
through a mobile home park in
northwest Wisconsin on Tuesday.
The tornado reached wind speeds
of 130 miles per hour.
It touched down just after 5:30
Tuesday night in the small city
of Chetek in Barron County.
One of the hardest hit areas was
the Prairie Lake Estates Mobile
Home Park in Chetek.
Several mobile homes were
destroyed and a local resident,
46-year-old Eric Gavin,
was killed during the storm.
At least 25 others were injured.
>> And now to Barron County and
a "Look Ahead" into the weekend
clean-up there.
For that,
we have Barron County Sheriff
Chris Fitzgerald on the
telephone.
Thanks for being here.
>> Thank you.
>> In the aftermath of the
tornado, what is going on there
right now?
>> Yeah.
Just an update.
We just got our property and we
have 231 properties in Barron
County damaged in this storm.
It stretches about a ten-mile
stretch here.
We're in the recovery clean-up
effort as we speak today.
We have over-- as of now, over
300 or 400 volunteers on our
different sites, cleaning up,
helping people clean debris up.
We bussed them in from our
volunteer resource center.
We're in the clean-up mode right
now helping people try to get
back going on with their lives.
>> Wow.
So taking you back to Tuesday
evening,
when you and other law
enforcement first arrived,
what was that like and what was
the first order of business?
>> The first order of business,
I arrived on scene,
I was actually on duty and
arrived on scene during the
incident.
Our first was rescue.
We had several people trapped in
trailers, walls on top of them,
total devastation.
It's a miracle--
It's sad that one person died,
but it's a miracle that only
one person died
and we had 25 injured.
It's a miracle because it's
total devastation up here,
not only in the trailer court,
but across Barron County.
>> And so do you know what the
status is of those who were
injured?
I mean, are there people still
in the hospital?
>> I've got conflicting reports
this morning that a person in
the hospital might have been
released.
But there's only one or two left
in the hospital as far as I know
or zero.
It's somewhere between zero and
two people left in the hospital.
Again, it's a miracle.
It's just a miracle.
It's nothing like I've ever seen
in my 20 years of law
enforcement.
It's total devastation.
Where there's supposed to be
houses and trailers,
there's absolutely nothing.
>> Now, three days later,
how are people coping?
>> You know,
we're starting to see some of
the effects of the trauma that
it's created.
First responders and everything,
people have been working 24/7
since the incident and trying to
get people help.
But there's a lot of hope.
There's a lot of people
giving us food, water,
donations and monetary and all
that stuff is building hope
and rebuilding dreams.
And that's what we're running on
right now.
We're running on fumes,
but we're running on hope,
and it's been awesome.
It's unbelievable.
And we're going to put people's
lives back together even
starting right now in the room
right next to me.
>> All right.
Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald,
thanks very much and good luck.
>> Thank you.
>> People interested in
volunteering this weekend in
Barron County should report to
the volunteer reception center
Saturday and Sunday between the
hours of 8:00 in the morning and
5:00 p.m.
The center is set up at
St. Peter's Catholic Church at
the intersection Highways 8 and
53 in Cameron.
Finally tonight,
a "Look Ahead" to next week,
when we'll have an update on the
expansion of school choice.
We'll take you to Wausau where
the private schools are thinking
about expansion and public
school leaders are angry they
have to raise taxes to pay for
it.
Until then,
I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Have a great weekend.