- As we forecast, Senate Minority Leader Jennifer
Shilling joins us in La Crosse.
She opposes the bill that passed in the Senate on a party line vote.
Thanks very much for being here.
- Thank you.
- So what is your opposition to this bill?
- Well, the waters of Wisconsin belong to everyone.
I mean, that is just a paramount belief that we hold here with
the public trust doctrine.
And the idea that privatizing access to Wisconsin's water is
deeply troubling.
It becomes a fairness issue, first of all, but also some
concerns with the Department of Natural Resources really
lessening the regulation of those high-capacity wells and
the renewal of permits.
So the idea that a permit will be forever
and will transfer
with property ownership, there's certainly a concern with
neighboring properties that are not taken into account about the
use of these high-capacity wells that can pump hundreds of
thousands of gallons of water a day.
And there's certainly a way to find a balance.
And this bill did not seek that middle ground and that balance
that is really needed for all property owners here in
Wisconsin.
- Wisconsin is a major producer of the kinds of crops that use
these high-capacity wells for irrigation as well as large
dairy operations that use them in their production, as you
know.
Now, Senator Fitzgerald calls this a pro-farm measure.
What about that?
- Well, I think as you talk to some of the small family farms,
that they are going to be concerned that these larger
farms, the corporate farms, will be--
will have that greater access to water.
And so as streams are lessening the flow, as wells may be
contaminated or drying up, we are seeing a drop in water level
in lakes, and people's property value is decreasing, that those
are some concerns that we are also hearing about.
So, again, I think through legislation that Senator Mark
Miller has put forward that restores really a balance of how
every ten years we could be looking at these permits for
renewal and looking at what that greater impact is in the region
on water levels.
- What have you heard aside from property owners from
environmentalists about their concerns over this bill?
- Well, they are concerned about the contamination.
They are concerned about Wisconsin really has an
abundance of fresh, clean water here in the state.
And as we look at the high-capacity well issue and
certainly it is something in Central Sands, that is an area
in central Wisconsin with a concern.
But also the Driftless Area and Kewaunee County as well.
They are having issues with the Karst.
So this really as we look at central Wisconsin the issues
that they have there, but water issues in general really is a
statewide issue and access to clean drinking water.
- You said you think the bill undermines the public trust
doctrine.
How so?
- Well, that in the Constitution, again, those
waterways belong to everyone.
So the idea that someone with a permit can monopolize or on the
floor one of my colleagues talked about stealing their
neighbor's water, that that idea just again I think flies in the
face of that public ownership of the waterways and access to
waterways.
- So would this measure if passed into law be subject to a
test in the courts because of that?
- Well, and I think that that is something, if I can see
around corners, that I would not be surprised, if this is
something that is contested in the courts.
We've had some previous cases dealing with access to the
waterways in the state.
So I fully intend -- or fully expect that this possibly could
be headed towards the courts.
- As long as I have you here, I wanted to ask you a couple
budget items.
What do democrats want to see on transportation now that we
learned that Joint Finance will start from scratch on this?
- Well, we definitely have known that there's been some
tension among the majority party and the governor on
transportation, that both parties have been asking for
some stronger leadership from the governor on transportation.
The idea now that the Finance Committee is going to go off of
kind of the base budget rather than the governor's
recommendations, which was more borrowing and delaying projects,
that I certainly think we can have a conversation about where
we need to diversify a funding mechanism in this state.
What we immediate to do to invest and have safe roads and
bridges and a transportation network system that I think is
important for all parts of the state,
not just a certain region.
- Where are you on self-insurance for the state?
- Well, I've been very skeptical about that from the
beginning, when the governor was kind of floating that idea, even
last year, about looking for requests for proposals for that.
And I think both sides of the aisle resoundly sounded like
they rejected that idea when it was brought up by agency
briefings last week, that it continues to have some -- that
people in both parties are skeptical about the savings that
the governor had talked about and that it could actually cost
the state $100 million and be disruptive to the insurance
market here in Wisconsin.
So I am highly skeptical that that is going
to survive and move forward.
In fact, I think that that issue is basically kind of dead.
- All right. We leave it there.
Senator Jennifer Shilling, thank you very much for joining us.
- Thank you.