- I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here and Now" a "First Look" at Wisconsin
Congressional response to President Trump's Tuesday night
address.
Representatives Pocan and Grothman are here.
After that a "Closer Look" at relationships between Wisconsin
law enforcement and undocumented immigrants in the state.
It's "Here and Now" for March 3rd.
- Funding for "Here and Now" is provided in part by Friends of
Wisconsin Public Television.
- Everything that is broken in our country can be fixed.
Every problem can be solved.
And every hurting family can find healing and hope.
- A "First Look" tonight at a new tone from President Donald
Trump in his address to Congress.
We'll speak with Second District Congressman Democrat Mark Pocan
later in tonight's program.
Joining us now is Republican U.S. Representative
Glenn Grothman of the Wisconsin's Sixth District.
He joins us now. Thanks for being here.
- Glad to be on "Here and Now."
- Now obviously we saw a different kind of Donald Trump
in his address to Congress.
Did you like it? - Yeah.
To be honest I talked to Donald Trump several times
during the campaign.
This is the Donald Trump I was more familiar with.
Obviously, there's "The Apprentice" Donald Trump
and he's transitioning from the star of "The Apprentice"
to President of the United States.
I think this is the Donald Trump we'll see
pretty much from here on out.
- On this news item, what is your reaction to the recusal of
Attorney General Sessions who will not participate now in any
investigations into Russia's interference in the presidential
campaign?
- It seems as though they caught Claire McCaskill critical
of this in a little bit of a fib here.
It's really not something that affects me one way or the other
I hear Congress talking about.
We're looking at replacement for Obamacare.
We're preparing for a new budget that is probably going to have
to be rolled out sometime in the next two months as well as
focusing on overhaul of the internal revenue code.
- I want to get to some of those things.
But are you concerned about meetings on the part of Trump
officials with the Russian ambassador and the larger issue
of Russian influence?
- Well, I think it is something
I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Right now I'm not overly concerned.
I don't really see how it affected the elections.
I'm following where the investigation goes and think it
will be dwarfed by these more substantive issues.
- As to policy points, the president as you know spoke to
repealing and replacing the Affordable Care Act.
You've seen the draft replacement bill which includes
these tax credits to help purchase plans based on age.
I understand you have some concerns about that.
What are they?
- Well, the major concern is this.
Right now we are spending too much on health insurance in this
country.
I think the area that's doing the best job of holding down
costs is medium to large companies and it seems to me in
the initial plan there are a lot of incentives for employers to
give up their employee-sponsored healthcare.
In other word, if you look at the -- let's say you have a
husband and wife and maybe three kids.
You can easily wind up with a $13,000 or $14,000 subsidy to
get rid of -- $13,000 subsidy if you have your own healthcare.
Given the size of the subsidy, why wouldn't an employer drop
the subsidy?
So we have to get rid of the incentive for employers to drop
employee healthcare.
- So if people are trying to get their own plans under any
kind of new draft, can you assure low-income people and
those with pre-existing conditions they'll be able to
afford these plans in the absence of Obamacare?
- Well, we're going to probably have some high-risk insurance
and incentivize states to do that just like the state of
Wisconsin used to have.
Obviously where there's a market you are going to have insurance
companies spring up and provide healthcare.
Plus you have Medicaid as well, which as always, takes care of a
lot of low-income people which is going to continue in effect.
- But if the taxes supporting Obamacare are scaled back or
eliminated how are the promises to provide lower costs
and better access met?
- We feel that the new budget that will be introduced,
together with the reconciliation bill, we won't be able to pass
it unless it's revenue neutral.
So the plan that will be presented will be revenue
neutral.
- But back to Medicaid, in Wisconsin, which did not take
the expanded Medicaid, people just above the poverty line were
then kind of encouraged into the marketplace plans.
Under the new kind of draft that would replace Obamacare, what
happens to that group of people?
- They are going to get a tax subsidy and that tax subsidy
should be enough to buy some sort of health insurance plan.
We also anticipate giving Medicaid back to the states and
some of them will be picked up, I assume, by the state of
Wisconsin.
We're aware that the state did not expand Medicaid.
An adjustment will be made in the amount of money the state of
Wisconsin gets to take care of that problem.
- On to another issue.
Do you agree that undocumented immigrants are causing, quote,
lawless chaos in America and that we must build the wall?
- I think we should build a wall.
I mean, there's a problem out there
and a lot of people seem to be confused
as to whether we have to enforce our immigration laws.
Obviously many immigrants who come here are not breaking the
law but I think probably disproportionately some are.
It's hard to get hard figures on this.
I've talked to people who work at the Oxford Federal Prison.
They feel they see immigrants breaking the law and common
sense will tell you if you have to pick between immigrants who
are patiently waiting to come in this country legally and pick
between people who are breaking the law to come here, you're not
getting the type of people that are predisposed to obey the law.
I think we ought to go back to a system in which we are keeping
track of who is coming here, vet them insofar as we can vet them
and take those people.
There are 196 countries in the world.
It is not harsh to say that not everybody can live here.
- I want to ask you about immigration in terms of the
kinds of immigrants that work on Wisconsin dairy farms.
Farmers have talked about some kind of a special visa program
that would allow for them to be documented and work these farms.
Is that something that you're working on in Washington?
- I think there will have to be some visa system because right
now we know that under past presidents, we have solved the
need for labor in this country by allowing people to come here
illegally and anticipating people who come here illegally.
In the past and farms other than dairy farms have relied on
temporary visas.
We are aware something along those lines is going to have to
be done and I would say I am in favor of building the law.
- You are in favor of building the wall you just said?
- Correct.
- I want to ask you one other thing and sorry this interview
is kind of jumping around.
President Trump says he will not cut Medicare or Social Security.
What's your position on that?
- I think that's good.
I think for the first four years
there are plenty of other things to focus on.
- So you take no position on that?
- No, if he doesn't want it done in the first four years
it's not doing to be in the first four years.
And I do think to a certain extent, as some illegals are
removed from the country, I think that will take some
pressure off all of our healthcare programs.
- Okay, Congressman Grothman, we leave it there.
Thanks very much for joining us.
- Glad to be on the show as always.
- We want all Americans to succeed but that can't happen in
an environment of lawless chaos.
We must restore integrity and the rule of law at our borders.
[applause]
- President Trump talking lawless chaos.
We check in now with the opposite side of the aisle
with Democratic U.S. Representative Mark Pocan.
He brought a college student to the address.
Lupe Salmeron immigrated to Wisconsin from Mexico 12 years
ago and is undocumented, but received deportation exception
under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.
Congressman Pocan joins us now.
Thanks very much for being here.
- Absolutely. Glad to be here.
- Why did you bring Lupe to the address?
- There's a lot of different angles you could go to try to
raise awareness but this is one issue where literally we're
tearing families apart who've been here for decades.
In Lupe's case, she's been here for a dozen years.
When we go and do what is starting the happen with the ICE
raids and deportations and building the wall, we're
starting to put a fake narrative out there about people who are
hard working in this country, want to be citizens and we had a
bipartisan bill a couple of sessions ago to do just that and
now we're going in a completely different direction based on
fear in order to kind of prove why he got elected.
I think that's not clear enough.
You can't destroy families just because it somehow addresses
your political narrative.
- Switching directions.
What is your reaction to Attorney General Sessions'
recusal?
- I'm glad that at minimum we're getting the recusal.
But honestly if you lie to the American people under oath,
you can be prosecuted if you're an individual.
At minimum he should be resigning.
This is something where you can't act like I didn't remember
this conversation.
Oh yeah, I did have this conversation.
He lied directly in testimony under sworn testimony to Al
Franken as he asked questions, a senator from Minnesota.
And more importantly I think is just this issue.
This is an issue that's not going away.
There's so much more coming out how the Russians interfered with
our elections.
I've read the classified report.
I've asked on the floor of Congress -- if they are so sure
there's nothing here, then declassify that report because I
know what I read.
And supposedly that's what the president's read.
There is more information there
and it's not the hacking at the DNC.
I could care less.
People wrote dumb things in email and that got out,
that's not what changes elections.
There's more things that have happened and I think it's very
disingenuous to the point of questionable why they would say
things like they're talking about lifting sanctions and
other things and now we're finding all these people had all
these meetings from the Trump Administration and the campaign
with Russian officials.
There's more than smoke.
There is a big forest fire here and we need to let the American
people know about it.
- President Trump calls this a political witch hunt.
- I would call it a political witch hunt if I was in the
middle of something like this as well.
He's trying to find subterfuge wherever he can
to try to confuse the issue.
The bottom line is 17 different intelligence agencies
came out with a unified report that said
the Russians interfered with our elections.
I've read that report.
There's far more even than has come out so far.
Then all this other information now is coming out that's not in
some of the various intelligence reports about his campaign
officials and his administrative officials having all these
connections with Russia and whether it be about the
interference in the election or the issue of sanctions or the
issue of the fact we haven't seen his tax returns we don't
know how much business involvement he has in Russia.
The American people just need to know the very basics about this
before we can even move on to things like the Affordable Care
Act and tax reform and other issues.
This is something that goes way deeper
than Democrat, Republican politics.
This is something that's --inside the beltway is one way.
I'm from Wisconsin. I'm not from inside the beltway.
Here if you lie, you lie.
It's not how-- what version of lying
is what they always debate about in D.C.
And when a country like Russia comes in, interferes
with our elections, that should bother everybody.
I give people like John McCain and others credit because
they're saying that.
But the fact that Donald Trump acts like nothing happened makes
me even more suspicious of how much he knows and when he knew
about it.
- What about other people across the aisle, your peers,
are they taking this as seriously as you are?
- More and more are as more information comes out.
So I think at first they also were told
there is nothing here to look at.
Nothing here to look at.
But now you find out the son-in-law of the president met
with Russian officials at the Trump Tower after having them
come in the back door.
You're finding out that Attorney General Sessions now suddenly
after explicitly saying he didn't meet with Russian
officials, oh yeah, he did.
We're starting to find this avalanche of information like
this.
Something's extremely suspicious by Wisconsin Midwestern
standards and I think that we have to get the truth for the
people.
- On the Affordable Care Act, I wonder if the time has come for
Democrats to kind of face the reality that this is being
repealed and they are working to replace it with President Trump
saying quote I am calling on all Democrats and Republicans in the
Congress to work with us to save Americans from this imploding
Obamacare disaster.
- First of all I don't know if it's an imploding disaster.
They're trying to help create that narrative around it.
If you listened to the speech, yes he had a different tone but
he still said there is an immigrant around every corner
trying to attack you with the Affordable Care Act.
He watches too much Mad Max I think when he gave that clip you
played at the beginning of the interview.
We all know there has to be changes to the Affordable Care
Act.
The problem is they want to repeal it without really a
replacement.
And supposedly this week we're going to see some language.
But they won't have a hearing on it before the mark-up.
They're not going to do any kind of public exposure of the bill.
Again that is the wrong way to do it.
We had a lot of debate around the Affordable Care Act
when it came together.
And I would argue-- I wasn't there when it happened
and it wasn't a perfect process, but there was plenty of public
review and debate which we're not seeing on whatever they're
going to come up with next.
- Let me ask you about some of the prongs we're hearing about
and have heard about for a while.
Those include tax credits based on age versus these kind of
subsidies that Obamacare had, based on income.
What is your opinion of those kinds of tax credit?
- You have to have the money
to be able to afford health insurance
so the subsidies at least helps you buy it on a monthly basis.
Tax credits don't necessarily work in the same way and
it's not going to be as clear.
They're also talking about health savings account which are
great if you have lots of money.
But again it's not for the average middle class family or
someone trying to aspire to be in the middle class.
They talk about things like buying across state lines.
We know that's not proven to provide any savings.
My measurement is, is this going to provide -- protect the
healthcare that everyone has right now, provide increased
levels of healthcare and make it more affordable?
I don't think any of those levels right now are being
addressed by the plan they're roughly talking about.
- What happens to those in Wisconsin just over the poverty
line that were encouraged to sign up in the marketplace when
we didn't take expanded Medicaid in any of these kinds of
replacement plans?
- They're the ones that are going to fall through the holes
in this plan because there's not going to be a safety net for
them.
Even though they keep telling us people will have coverage, it's
going to be that they're offered a plan for coverage but not that
they're going to be covered.
We really need to have a thorough review of what they're
going to put out there.
And that's why when they're fast tracking this without any kind
of hearings or anything, again it just makes me suspicious.
My Wisconsin Midwest common sense is like ringing all sorts
of bells when they are trying to move it this fast when for six
years they've had no plan and now in one week they're going to
come up with a plan.
It just doesn't pass the smell test.
- All right, Representative Mark Pocan, thanks very much.
- Absolutely, thank you.
- We move now to a "Closer Look" at what stricter
enforcement of immigration policies may mean in Wisconsin.
With immigration enforcement being emphasized by the new
administration many Latinos are concerned about possible
deportation and many are letting their voices and concerns be
heard.
Reporter Andy Soth spent some time at Wisconsin's first
Spanish language radio station to hear what's being talked
about.
- At Midwest Family Broadcasting's Madison headquarters,
a walk down the hall is like scanning the radio dial.
At the end of the hall you'll find La Movida, Wisconsin's
first and still Madison's only Spanish language station.
The station is run by husband and wife,
Louise and Lupita Montoto.
[speaking in Spanish]
- We're so different and unique,
compared to the other radio stations.
We have pretty much everything combined in one station.
- That means morning talk shows and music all day long.
While songs remain the same, with the change
in administration and immigration policy,
the talk has turned very serious.
- For that reason we will soon begin the construction
of a great, great wall along our southern border.
- Our community lives in fear in regards to deportations
and what law enforcement is going to be doing.
What is your stance?
- I don't believe that local law enforcement should be used
as immigration enforcement.
- Dane County Executive Joe Parisi is on this morning with a
Spanish translator.
- We have so many callers saying.
"What are you going to do?
Are they going to deport everyone?
My kids were born here."
- It's difficult to see a grown man cry from fear
and the unknown on what's going to happen to his family.
- The Montotos can't offer certainty, but do try to provide
their Latino listeners with useful information.
- We are the vehicle, the bridge that connects the
non-Latino community with the Latino community and vice versa.
- That includes a Facebook Live feed when Madison Police Chief
Mike Koval is in studio.
- We're not going to arrest [Spanish translation]
and we are not going to charge [Spanish translation]
anyone for just being undocumented.
- There is a lot of rumors out there.
And that's one of the things that we, as a station,
have to fight.
- I'm getting a question.
Do you know anything about immigration
or ICE in Middleton yesterday?
- Not a thing. No.
- While local officials offer reassurance,
the federal government's response is much less certain.
- There is a lot of fear in the Latino community
in regards to the U.S. government right now.
We live difficult times right now.
- The times may be difficult, but there is no better time
for La Movida to be serving its growing audience.
[speaking Spanish]
- Today the things are not in the best perspective
and the best interest of the Latinos or the immigrants,
but there's always a way to continue working hard
and having the hope that tomorrow will be a better day.
- There's also a lot of fear and uncertainty in communities
in north central Wisconsin according to local authorities.
There's a large Hispanic population in and around Wausau
and that's where local law enforcement
is working to calm fears.
We're joined tonight by the chief deputy of the Marathon
County Sheriff's Department Chad Billeb.
Thank you for being here.
- Thank you for inviting me.
- How did you become aware there are fears in the Hispanic
community about new immigration rules?
- The sheriff and I were approached by a member of the
Hispanic community.
He's an activist with that community who told us about
fears especially on the west end of our county
where parents were afraid to take their children to school,
were afraid to go to work and go about their daily routines.
So we suggested and asked that he link us up
with those individuals.
And that we do our best to help quell their fears.
- Are those fears unfounded?
- I don't know where those fears come from.
I'm sure that some of what they hear in the media and news
reports just word of mouth that goes through those communities
is what gets that fear started.
And we want to reassure those citizens they have nothing to
worry about.
- Because what are you telling people in that regard?
- What we're telling them is that at this point in time we
have had no new information or new direction provided to us and
that we'll continue to work with their communities like we always
have and that we are not actively out enforcing
immigration law because we've never been tasked with that in
the past and this point in time do not plan to do any type of
enforcement activity like that.
- What law enforcement ramifications are there to
people being afraid of law enforcement?
- What our fear is, if there's a perception of fear that any
law enforcement officer they come in contact with is going to
be enforcing immigration law, that they might take drastic
actions to flee or evade or heaven forbid, fight with law
enforcement in order to maintain that freedom they believe they
have.
- And in what kind of circumstance would this be most
likely to happen?
I understand, you know, people might be, as you say, afraid to
kind of leave their house and would that include driving on
the highway?
- It can include any number of different scenarios.
Driving is certainly one of them.
We know that they have to get to and from school.
They have to get to and from work and if their fear is being
pulled over by a law enforcement officer might result in their
detention, we don't want them to take off on us.
That's our goal in reaching out to them because it puts everyone
in the community at risk when something like that happens.
- And can you speak on behalf of your sheriff's department
about what would be the reaction there if, in fact, ICE came in
with major enforcement?
- What I can tell you from our perspective is right now we are
running a jail that is extremely overcrowded.
We currently have inmates housed in several surrounding counties.
Today we have close to 120 inmates housed out.
We simply don't have the space to detain any more individuals
in our county.
We're putting forth a lot of effort in order to control that
jail population, a lot of alternative programs and quite
honestly considering the drug problem we're having here in
central Wisconsin, it's becoming increasingly difficult.
So housing alone would be a huge obstacle for us.
- And yet you aren't suggesting, I presume, that if
there are immigrants, undocumented immigrants that
actually are wanted for a particular crime that you're not
going to touch them?
- Absolutely.
What I can tell everyone is we'll continue to do as we have
in the past.
If someone has a warrant, there is a detainer for them or
they've committed a crime, then we will detain.
We will go through the standard immigration practices like we
have in the past and we will handle those cases on a
case-by-case basis.
We are not going out and actively searching out
individuals to detain, though, who have not committed a crime,
don't have a detainer or a warrant.
- And when we describe committing a crime, is that any
kind of crime?
- It's a crime that would normally have someone
incarcerated or arrested so they be treated no differently than
anyone else that we would come in contact with.
Major offenses.
We're not talking a speeding ticket or a parking violation.
These are crimes that would normally receive law enforcement
attention just like any other citizen.
- What kind of guidance has your department or others had
from ICE or other federal agencies on this?
- At this point, we have had no further direction.
We hear the same reports other citizens are through media
reports and until we get further direction we will continue
as we have.
- All right, Chief Deputy Chad Billeb.
Thanks very much for joining us.
- Thank you for having me.
- Environmental news now in our "Wisconsin Look" segment.
A bill that would loosen regulations for industrial wells
is making its way through the state legislature.
Members of the Assembly this week dropped a provision
expanding citizens' ability to sue owners of wells used for
industry or farming.
Conservationists link the large scale pumping of groundwater to
problems in lakes, streams and residential wells in certain
parts of the state.
The bill now matches its companion measure in the Senate
paving the way for the legislature to allow the
drilling of industrial wells without review by the state if
they replace existing, permitted wells.
Finally tonight,a final farewell to a Wisconsin political legend
and a friend of Wisconsin Public Television.
Ed Garvey, political activist and labor attorney will be laid
to rest tomorrow at a catholic mass in Madison.
He died last Wednesday.
A former Democratic candidate for governor Garvey carried the
progressive torch lit by Fighting Bob La Follette.
WPT viewers came to know him as the fiery political panelist on
our former Friday night news program "WeekEnd." Our
condolences go out to the Garvey family.
Next week on "Here and Now," what's in the water?
We'll have a report on Waukesha's unique water
challenges.
Until then I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Have a great weekend.
- Funding for "Here and Now" is provided in part by Friends of
Wisconsin Public Television.