- I'm Frederica Freyberg, tonight on "Here & Now,"
in our "First Look" segment,
highway funding challenges just got worse.
After that, a "Closer Look" at the FoodShare program
through the eyes of those enrolled.
Then in our "Look Ahead," how tougher immigration enforcement
may impact life in Wisconsin.
It's "Here and Now" for February 24.
?- Funding for "Here and Now" is provided in part
by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.
? ?
- In our "First Look" tonight, a scathing audit
of Wisconsin's Department of Transportation
got a hearing this week at the capitol.
Among the highlights of the audit,
the cost of 16 ongoing major highway projects
increased by $3.1 billion over original estimates.
This was because the DOT did not take inflation into account.
The proportion of state highways rated in good condition
decreased from 53.5% in 2010
to 41% in 2015.
And the proportion of state of highways in good condition in
Wisconsin was considerably lower according to the audit than
in six other Midwestern states.
The airing of these and other facts that auditors found come
in the midst of wrangling over how to fill a billion dollar
shortfall in transportation funding in Wisconsin and
disagreement over raising for example, the gas tax,
to generate more funds.
But now given the audit results legislators learned that the
billion dollar hole is also deeper.
So one lawmaker suggested Wisconsin stop digging that hole
and stop talking about how to increase funding for
transportation until the agency does better.
Delafield Republican Senator Chris Kapenga joins us in
Milwaukee.
Democratic State Senator from Alma,
Kathleen Vinehout sits on the audit committee and she is here
in Madison.
She also calls out the DOT
for its lack of transparency and oversight.
And welcome to both of you.
- Pleasure to be here. - Thanks.
- First to you Senator in Milwaukee
and I want to get this from both of you.
What was your overall reaction Senator Kapenga
when you saw the audit?
- We had some preliminary indications
just in our interviews and discussions with DOT
and some people kind of engaged in DOT projects
that there was going to be some issues coming out.
We had seen this for a couple years where
when we asked questions about certain things
and why this project was being done
or what about these dollar amounts,
the answers weren't adding up.
So it wasn't a complete shock, but I think what was interesting
is for the first time, we have a secretary
who just got put in place,
who actually was kind of an open book,
which was encouraging for me to see
on the depth of the problems.
And remember, as Senator Vinehout knows,
this was a limited scope audit so it was not
digging into everything and we found massive problems.
- Senator Vinehout, what about your reaction?
- Well the audit is very detailed and there are a lot of
very specific recommendations that the audit has on what both
the legislature can do and what DOT can do.
I was very pleased that the audit,
bipartisan audit members were focused on solutions.
They wanted DOT to come back right away.
They wanted to have progress reports.
They wanted to see data every six months.
We, as an audit committee, bipartisan audit committee,
unanimously introduced a bill to put some accountability into the
statutes that should have been there 20 years ago.
- This didn't come as a grand surprise to either one of you.
Senator Kapenga, how bad is this?
- It's bad enough to where not only do we know that there's an
issue with estimating the costs.
We know that there is an issue with the priority of the
projects that are put in place.
So now, it's not just, well, is the dollar amount that we're
giving the DOT appropriate?
When we see that there's projects that are slated in that
should not even be slated in and when we ask questions about
why did you do the projects you did, when we don't have answers
to that and they can't give us a rhyme or reason,
that's concerning.
- I want to stay with you Senator Kapenga,
who is to blame?
- Well, you can point fingers but at the end of the day,
the DOT Secretary is the one
who's responsible for his department.
So Mark Gottlieb who was in that position,
did leave that position recently.
And we were a little bit concerned with some performance
things we had seen there.
Right now what we're focused on, as Senator Vinehout pointed out,
is we now have to fix what we see.
So pointing fingers doesn't do a lot of good at this point.
We just realize there's a major process revamp
that has to take place.
And we'll see that coming.
- Senator Vinehout, what role do delays in projects play in
these cost overruns?
- That's a big question right now.
One of the objectives is to
try and balance that transportation budget.
To balance it, if we cut back on projects, there are delays.
If there are delays, there are cost overruns.
So every solution has to be considered for the unintended
consequences.
That's one of the problems.
- And staying with you Senator Vinehout,
the audit talked about the conditions of the highways in
Wisconsin decreasing, you know, they're not as good as they were
and they're getting worse, and furthermore they don't compare
favorably to surrounding Midwestern states.
What are the concerns about that for Wisconsin's economy?
- Well, it's a huge concern.
We have bridges in my own county that have been condemned and we
still have schoolchildren that are crossing those condemned
bridges in the middle of the winter to get to the school bus.
There was a bridge that just collapsed
just this week in Buffalo County.
And I fear that there's more to come.
The floods that we had last summer
have weakened a lot of the bridges.
There are businesses that can't operate that are talking to me
about closing, because they can't get the tourist buses
across the bridge that has been out since last July.
This affects our economy.
It affects people.
It affects vehicles that are damaged by poor roads and poor
bridges and it puts people in danger.
- Senator Kapenga do you think that's overstating the condition
of the roads?
- No, there's actually a map that DOT showed us in the audit
hearing that we were in.
It was a color-coded map and it showed very clearly
the areas of the state where the road conditions were poor.
This is when we started asking questions.
They brought up a situation where there was a $500 million
project that was approved and that project was only 20 years
into its 50-year life.
And when they said why are we doing this
and not spending the money outstate where we have problems,
as the Senator brought up, there was no response to that.
They didn't have an answer.
That's what we're so concerned about.
- Meanwhile, Senator Kapenga, you have suggested the time is
not now to start talking about increasing funds to fill the
transportation shortfall, or you know,
start on any new projects until this gets straightened out.
Where does that leave you in terms of the people who want to
look for a sustainable source of funding for transportation?
- The first thing you have to look at is when you do budgeting
and I've done budgeting in my previous life as a CPA.
It's something that I've done a lot of.
You have to have good underlying assumptions when you budget.
The problem that the DOT highlights is you can't even
make good assumptions when you're trying to project.
For instance, what is the right dollar amount?
You don't know because you can't tell what projects are
appropriate and what are not.
So what I've said is the governor in his proposed budget
has a good solution where we bond at a very reduced level for
the next two years, and that allows Secretary Ross to get his
arms around this problem and come to us to fix it.
- And Senator Vinehout, where do you stand on increasing the
gas tax or something like that, at this juncture?
- We need to find efficiencies.
We need to reduce spending but we also need to raise revenue.
And it's very clear, looking at how much money has been
transferred from other programs, like schools and the UW,
into the transportation fund.
The fund itself is not sustainable.
And these efficiencies, we need to capture every single one of
them, but we cannot sustain this spending at this level.
We cannot sustain $1 of every five going into paying off debt.
We have to fix it.
- All right, we leave it there.
Senator Vinehout in Madison and Senator Kapenga in Milwaukee,
thank you very much.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
- In tonight's "Closer Look," there's a new generation
of welfare reform shaping up in Wisconsin.
The proposed 2017-19 budget expands on work requirements
for food stamp recipients.
Two years ago, able-bodied single adults started being
required to work or train for work in return for FoodShare,
which is just under $200 a month for one person.
So the new proposal includes having
parents of school-age children to meet the same requirements.
But how have recipients fared under the rules
that went into effect two years ago.
We met three men required to train for work or be employed
under FoodShare rules.
Here's what we found.
- Right now, short on meat.
- 48-year-old Daniel Cotton of Milwaukee says he lost his
FoodShare benefits in December.
- Eggs and bread and peanut butter of course.
- An inventory of his fridge shows what the church or food
pantries have given him.
- So I got enough ketchup.
When I get some more hot dogs, I have some more of that.
You just go without for a period of time.
You just have some cereal,
peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
You know it's more than a lot of people have so you're thankful.
- Cotton says he's lost 12 pounds
since losing FoodShare benefits.
He says he was working a part-time job but was declared
ineligible after failing to attend required
FoodShare employment and training appointments
because he says they happened during his work hours.
- I didn't have a high education level.
Some of the things you don't understand that you get
in the mail about having to respond to FoodShare.
- Also, like many people enrolled in or trying to get
benefits, Cotton doesn't have a working computer.
This free computer lab serves people at an agency in Beloit.
People like 37-year-old Kendrick Payton who's unemployed and
also lost his FoodShare benefits under the 2015 rule
requiring training or work.
- It's kind of difficult to understand all the paperwork
and red tape they want you to go through and do.
I don't have a computer, I mean, you can go to the job center,
but right now, I don't have a vehicle to get back and forth.
You know, I'm not working, so it's kind of hard to get
somebody to take me to Janesville every time.
- Payton says he got a letter from the state concerning
his FoodShare, which he says he didn't understand.
He says when he couldn't get to the job center location to iron
out the issue, he lost his benefit.
Advocates like David Lee of Feeding Wisconsin are all too
familiar with the barriers people face.
- We're here in Beloit, in order to participate in this
program, you have to orient in Janesville.
You don't have a car or bus fare or whatever it might be to take
the 20, 30-minute trip up to Janesville,
you can't participate in this amazing program.
So I think some of these challenges are extremely real
for folks who are living, you know,
on the edge of poverty or who are unemployed trying to do
their best to make a better life for themselves.
- Lee says a good paying job is the best antihunger tool in the
hunger-fighting toolbox.
And his organization and others support increased access to
training or good jobs including access like what's offered
through the FoodShare employment and training program which
Governor Scott Walker wants to expand.
- We want to ensure that people who are able to work actually
enter the workforce.
For starters, that means that able-bodied adults will need to
be employed at least 80 hours a month to receive benefits like
food stamps.
If not they'll need to be enrolled in our job training
program.
- Despite being dropped from FoodShare,
Kendrick Payton continues to participate in worker training
through Community Action of Beloit and wants to work.
- I would like to have a full time job and be able to provide
for my kids.
- Payton is among more than 60,000
FoodShare recipients who lost benefits under the 2015
requirement for work or training according to the State
Department of Health and Human Services.
But more than 20,000 recipients found jobs.
- We think it's great that 20,000 people found jobs.
We hope they are on the path to living healthy,
hunger-free productive lives.
The 60,000 who lost benefits, I think,
we're extremely concerned about, right,
because I think we are concerned that policymakers don't
fundamentally understand the challenges that people are
experiencing in trying to enroll in these programs.
- With what is known about the numbers,
what about the expansion of the work training program to
parents?
- Again, it's great that 20,000 people found jobs.
That is super exciting.
But I would imagine and I would hope that before we implement an
overly broad work requirement for families with children,
we should probably understand how well the program is working
now so that we can actually laser target the program to
ensure that the most people are able to benefit from it.
- 41-year-old Antonio Johnson of Beloit was able
to benefit from the work training requirement
and landed a job as a result.
- Going through the program, going on the Wisconsin Job
Network site, that's actually where I located the job
where I'm currently working.
While I was in class, I applied, took a shot in the dark.
Went for orientation.
And then a week before I graduated,
they called me in again for another interview
and offered me the job.
- Johnson now works full-time at Hormel in Beloit and because
of his income is no longer eligible for FoodShare.
- I have the confidence knowing that I'm doing it on my own now
without any help and assistance.
It's a big relief right there
to know that I can take care of my family.
And, you know, it just feels like the sky's the limit now.
- This is your eggs. Then out of there,
you can choose three items out of the fridge, ok?
- All right.
- For his part, Kendrick Payton says he is eligible for
FoodShare again in three years.
He hopes he won't need it but for now,
while he looks for work, he visits local food pantries
in order to eat.
- Since I'm not getting FoodShare right now,
I just gotta try and make things work the best I can.
- The director of this pantry says it has seen a significant
uptick of customers in recent years.
- The biggest story we hear is that the resources they get are
not enough or the jobs they're working don't pay a living wage.
And so even though they're working,
they're doing everything that's asked of them,
everything that's required, they're still struggling.
- But there are efforts being made to change the struggle to
success, like the success that despite his own barriers Antonio
Johnson felt when he was offered a full-time, good paying job.
- For the first time in a long time,
I felt like I was going to be able to have
not just some stability,
but I was going to be able to do things I always wanted to do.
I could actually think about being able to save
and buy a house.
I could actually think about the fact that I'm going to be able
to pay my bills and buy my own groceries and still be able to
do other things for my kids.
You know?
- Again, Governor Walker wants to expand the training or work
requirement as a pilot program to include FoodShare recipients
with school age children.
He's also pursuing drug testing for food stamp recipients.
Next, a "Look Ahead" to what beefed up immigration
enforcement could mean across the country
and here in Wisconsin.
According to memos released this week from the Department of
Homeland Security, immigrants classified as priorities for
removal are expanded to include those charged with minor crimes
and could include the act of entering the country illegally.
The memos call for a force multiplier of state and local
police to assist immigration enforcement
and, of course, the wall.
We have Wisconsin reaction to this policy
starting with the executive director
of the Midwest of Coalition to Reduce Immigration.
Dave Gorak who joins us from Baraboo.
And thanks a lot of being here. - Thank you.
- As you know according to most counts
about 11 million undocumented immigrants live in the U.S.,
about 85,000 in Wisconsin.
What's your reaction to the executive orders
on immigration enforcement?
- What the Trump Administration is doing is simply implementing
the recommendations of President Clinton's Immigration Reform
Commission that was chaired by the late Barbara Jordan.
She said that any immigration policy that we have
has to serve the national interests.
What we've had thus far hasn't been doing that.
But more importantly, she said any immigration policy,
if it's to be credible, it has to involve deporting people.
Now of course, our priorities are the criminal element,
but she said, in the end, if it's going to mean anything,
it's going to send a proper message to the rest of the
world, we have to deport people who have entered this country
illegally or come here legally on visas and then deliberately
overstayed those visas.
- Would you like to see the deportation of all 11 million
undocumented immigrants?
- Our concern is -- first of all, immigration is about jobs.
Right now, what we've got are eight million illegal aliens in
our workforce, most in them in construction, manufacturing,
services and transportation.
At the same time the federal government is reporting that we
have 15 million Americans who cannot find full-time work.
We want to know why this is going on.
- Let me ask you about the immigrant labor force.
As you know, Wisconsin dairy farms
rely heavily on immigrant labor.
And we're told that that's because
they have a very difficult time getting local labor.
So what about the concerns there on the part of the dairy
industry that the deportation of this labor potentially
could really hurt Wisconsin?
- The dairy industry has a legitimate complaint because
there are no visas available that address their labor needs.
The H2A visa allows growers to bring in
an unlimited number of temporary workers,
but the dairy farmers need a year-round labor force.
We think there are three options open to the dairy farmers.
Number one, they can get together and deal with
their members of Congress and say look,
we need a visa that addresses our labor needs
or they can mechanize.
A number of dairy farmers have done this around the country.
And finally they can offer better wages.
Now agriculture in general pays pretty bad wages
and it's hard work and it's dirty work.
But if you need to bring in foreign workers,
then you should do it legally.
- So you would be in favor of some kind of policy change
that would allow for the kinds of visas
that would help the dairy industry?
- Yes, absolutely.
Now, keep in mind, this country has
over 30 guest worker programs.
So I guess if we have to create another one, 31, 32.
But the point is, this is what they have to do and then they
never have to worry about labor shortages.
- Meanwhile, though, you would also like to see a shrinking of
the number of documented immigrants that are allowed into
this country, briefly, just describe why that is.
- During the first 200 years of this country's history,
we averaged about 250,000 legal immigrants every year.
But since 1990, that number has risen to more than 1.2 million.
And again, what this does is create competition for jobs
among the most vulnerable people in our society.
So yes, the Jordan Commission recommended cutting immigration
in half, to 500,000 and we feel comfortable with that.
- All right.
- We don't need-- I'm sorry.
- Go ahead very briefly.
- We don't need more immigrants or refugees.
What we need are more good-paying jobs for Americans.
- We leave it there.
Dave Gorak, thanks for joining us.
- Thank you.
- We now more across the state for the perspective of a dairy
farmer with a close eye on immigration enforcement policy.
John Rosenow milks about 550 cows on his Buffalo County farm
and employs workers from Mexico.
It's estimated more than 5300 immigrants work Wisconsin dairy
farms representing more than 40% of all workers hired.
Farmers say it is increasing hard to hire locally.
John Rosenow joins us now from La Crosse.
And thanks for being here. - Thank you.
- What's your reaction to the executive orders calling for
stepped up deportation now?
- This causes concern, not only for dairy farmers,
but also for our employees.
They have stepped up apprehension now because of the
talk of deportation and stuff like that.
A lot of the talk that I'm hearing
is stuff that I've heard before, maybe 10 years ago,
with talks of the 287(G)
and the enhanced enforcement,
stuff like that,
I think-- I hope that cooler heads will prevail than what
we're hearing out of Washington.
- Well, when you describe 287(G),
that is the kind of beefed up enforcement whereby local police
and sheriffs' departments assist ICE agents
in these enhanced enforcements?
- Yes.
Right now, there's 32 jurisdictions in the country
that are 287(G) certified.
Right now, there's none in the state of Wisconsin,
but it was brought up recently in different memos and stuff
from the administration that they're going to try to do that.
There isn't a lot of incentive
for local jurisdictions to do that.
It's going to cost them more money.
It's going to cost more time.
And it's going to alienate people they need to work with.
- How are your Mexican employees and their families
reacting and responding to all of this?
- Well, there's increasing concern.
Before, maybe, it wasn't a lot of concern,
but now there's increasing concern.
I was recently in Mexico.
I talked to a young mother.
And her daughter's up here in the United States
and trying to make a living.
She's working on a farm in Minnesota.
And they're very concerned that she will become deported.
They need the money that she is making up there
to survive in rural Mexico.
This is something new.
I hadn't heard that before when I traveled to Mexico to visit
the villages and stuff where my families come from,
my employees come from.
- What are your specific business concerns
for your operation?
- Well, of course, if-- if what they're saying is they're
going to deport everybody, and I lost my employees,
I would have to sell the cows, quit farming.
My 10 people that work for us locally
would lose their jobs.
My trucker that hauls feed and bedding and stuff into our place
would hurt his business dramatically.
Our milk plant would be hurt.
This is just if it happened to me.
If it happened to everybody in the state,
I have one neighbor not too far away,
milks about a thousand cows.
He and his son are talking about selling the cows now
for fear that if this happened all across the state,
the cows wouldn't be worth anything to liquidate.
So to get ahead of the curve, you get out of the business now.
- Very briefly with 30 seconds left,
do you really expect that all this will come to pass?
- I've heard this so many times over the last 15 to 20 years and
I'm hoping that the same thing that's happened in the past
will happen again, not much.
But ever since the election,
everything's on the table it seems.
So I think we have laws and I think Secretary--
ICE-- Kelly--
the head of ICE, Kelly, said in Mexico yesterday,
I believe it was, they were going to follow the laws
and follow the common practices
of the United States of human rights.
So I have hope.
- All right. John Rosenow, thanks for your time.
- Thank you.
- Now for an election update.
Incumbent Superintendent of Public Instruction Tony Evers
will face off against candidate Lowell Holtz
in April 4th general election.
Evers easily took this week's primary with 69% of the vote.
And that's our program for tonight.
I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Have a great weekend.
- Funding for "Here and Now" is provided in part
by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.