Senator Johnson, thank you very much for joining us.
- Hello, Frederica, Happy New Year.
- First let me congratulate you on your re-election.
I don't think we've spoken since then.
- I appreciate that. Thanks.
- Donald Trump tweeted this morning that Mexico will
reimburse American taxpayers for a new border wall
and Congress will make that money available right away
for the sake of speed.
As Chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, what is your
reaction and response to that?
- Well, I'll have to see his details.
We've heard different proposals, potentially some import fees or
whatever, to pay for the wall.
I was just in Israel.
I went down and toured their fence with the Sinai
on their southern border.
They having a real problem.
They built that fence in about two years.
It's about 260 kilometers.
Cost them about $2.5 million per mile.
Far cheaper than anything we built.
I think a combination of taking a look at the right type of
fencing in the right areas.
The funding mechanism, we'll just take a look at how we're
going to actually pay for the fence but doesn't have to be all
that expensive.
- Also this week the work has already begun to undo the
Affordable Care Act with votes to take up a Senate budget
resolution this week that would clear the way to repeal major
prongs of it like subsidies and the taxes that supported them.
Why so fast off the blocks?
- Well, we certainly want to set a procedure using
reconciliation because it sounds like Minority Leader Schumer is
not going to cooperate at all.
So we're going to figure out a way to do this
with just 51 votes.
From my standpoint, I've been--
ever since Obamacare was finally implemented,
I've been using slightly different terminology.
Repairing the damage and transitioning to a system
that actually works.
That's really what the effort needs to be.
We have to recognize the fact that subsidies are flowing.
The tax has already been implemented.
People are receiving--have health insurance.
Doesn't necessarily mean they're accessing care because the
deductibles are so incredibly high.
There's been an awful lot of damage done by Obamacare.
It's a big mess.
It's our responsibility to clean up that mess.
It's going to take time. It's very complex.
- Notwithstanding the fact that you suggest that you'd like to
repair the damage, the repeal process is already in motion.
What do you say to the 20 million people insured through
Obamacare, some 230,000 of them in Wisconsin?
- First of all, from my standpoint I don't want to see
anybody lose health insurance they already have, but I
certainly want to see health insurance far more affordable
and the access to health care, quality health care, better.
And that was not achieved by Obamacare.
So again we have a really big mess on our hands.
Obamacare did not live up to its name.
The Affordable Care Act is not affordable.
The premiums on the individual market did double and triple.
Again, we have a big mess on our hands.
It's going to be very complex to unwind this
and really repair the damage.
- But if you partially repeal the law with no replacement, you
risk the collapse of the whole thing.
Why not wait in Washington to repeal until you can replace?
- Well, that's certainly my suggestion, is do them at
the same time in one fell swoop.
We're working our way through this.
The procedure right now is just setting up a very simple budget
reconciliation process that has to do with the dollars involved
with the repeal/replace effort.
It's just the first step in a very--it's probably going to
pretty long and complex process.
So first of all, I don't think anybody should worry about their
health insurance they currently have going away anytime soon.
We're fully aware of the fact that it's going to take a while
for the insurance markets to reset themselves, and so we're
going to do this thoughtfully, certainly from my standpoint.
That's the way I want to do it.
- What's your view on Speaker Ryan's call
to defund Planned Parenthood as part of this repeal?
- Nobody wants to defund women's health care that's the
number one issue but at the same time, I don't think any
Americans' tax dollars should go toward procedures like abortion
they find morally wrong.
So there's where the fault-line occurs.
So if Planned Parenthood wants funding, they should separate
their women's health care services from their abortion
services.
I know they say they've done that, but money's fungible so
it's still an issue.
- Related to the ACA Medicare, Speaker Ryan wants a premium
support voucher plan.
What's your position on that kind of change?
- I would like to shift as much as we possibly can of health
care decisions back to the states.
Quite honestly as much of governance back to the states,
where government is more effective, efficient and
accountable.
That's certainly be one of the areas I'd like to see over time
in an evolving type of fashion evolve or devolve those powers
and that type of governing back to the states.
I think it would be more effective.
- What about the premium support idea of it, kind of a voucher?
- Again, from my standpoint when you start block granting
dollars back to the states, states can determine how they
actually want to utilize those dollars.
Let's the states decide a lot of those issues.
- Now, moving to something different, as you know, both the
CIA and FBI say they have confirmed Russia was behind
hacking involving the U.S. election.
President-elect Trump does not take this seriously.
How seriously do you take it?
- I take it very seriously and
I've been ahead of the curve on this one.
As Chairman of the European Subcommittee of Foreign
Relations we've held a number of hearings on Russia's propaganda
campaigns, their disinformation campaigns, how they're trying to
destabilize certainly eastern European countries.
But just their involvement, destabilization efforts
around the world.
So this is a very serious issue.
I'm also very concerned about the leaking coming out of the
intelligence community.
I'm not happy with the fact that looks like there's going to be a
disconnect between the incoming administration and the
intelligence community.
That issue has to be repaired quickly because the next
administration has to have good intelligence to keep this nation
safe.
- Now, you've sponsored several resolutions relating to Russia
and its president, Vladimir Putin, including one calling for
a full investigation into the murder of a Russian opposition
leader and one concerning Russia's attacks in Ukraine.
Do you think the U.S.
should be complimenting Putin for his leadership and his
smarts?
- I'm very wary of Vladimir Putin.
There have been close to 30 suspicious political
assassinations since he's taken power.
Obviously he invaded Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine.
I think Russia is probably responsible for the shooting
down of an airliner.
I wish, I wish Russia was a friendly rival as opposed to an
unfriendly adversary.
I don't want them to become an enemy.
So we have to understand the reality of the situation.
There's about more than 15,000 nuclear warheads in the world.
Russia has more than 7,000 of those.
We have little less than 7,000.
So they are a superpower by that measure alone.
He is the head of that nation right now.
We're going to have to deal with him, but we have to deal with
him from a position of strength, which is one of the resolutions
I supported, proposed and had passed was one to provide $300
million of lethal defensive weaponry to the nation of
Ukraine so they could defend their territory, integrity.
Again, we need to address Russia from a standpoint of
realistically looking at who they are, what they've done.
But we have to address them from a position of strength and
resolve.
- What's your opinion of Rex Tillerson for secretary of state
with his ties to Russia?
- I think he actually is an outstanding selection.
His background globally, his experience in the energy field,
his relationship with world leaders around the globe in a
very detailed fashion of working on oil exploration and other
things.
I think he really has an excellent background and
experience level.
I have no doubt that he'll be loyal
to the United States of America.
When he was CEO of Exxon he had one role.
As secretary of state, he'll have a different role.
I don't have any doubt that he can fill that role.
- Back to your wariness of Vladimir Putin and Russia.
It seems that you are parting ways with the president-elect
on this?
- I don't think so.
I think an awful lot of people are making an awful lot of
assumptions about what the president-elect's policies are
going to be toward Russia.
Let him become president.
Let him have his cabinet confirmed and then let's see how
he governs.
Certainly our role in the Senate is provide him as much
information, hold hearings, lay out the reality of the situation
and hopefully based on that reality he'll react
appropriately.
- All right.
We leave it there.
Senator Ron Johnson, thank you very much.
- Have a good day.