>> PRESENTATION OF "HERE AND
NOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART
BY THE ANIMAL DENTISTRY AND
ORAL SURGERY SPECIALISTS OF
MILWAUKEE AND OSHKOSH.
A VETERINARY TEAM WORKING WITH
PET OWNERS AND FAMILY
VETERINARIANS THROUGHOUT
WISCONSIN, PROVIDING CARE FOR
ORAL DISEASE AND DENTAL
PROBLEMS OF SMALL COMPANION
ANIMALS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR "HERE
AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE
L.E. PHILLIPS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
??
>> $1.3 BILLION BUSINESS THAT
WILL BE BANKRUPT IF WE DON’T
THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT HOW WE
DO BUSINESS EVERY DAY.
>> THE NEW SUPERINTENDENT OF
MILWAUKEE SCHOOLS SAYS THE
DISTRICT HAS BEEN HIT ROCK
BOTTOM AND IT CANNOT CONTINUE
TO FUND CADILLAC EMPLOYEE
BENEFITS WHILE CHILDREN ARE
FAILING.
I’M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THAT
INTERVIEW WITH SUPERINTENDENT
GREGORY THORNTON.
ALSO TONIGHT, DEMOCRAT FOR
GOVERNOR, MILWAUKEE MAYOR TOM
BARRETT.
PLUS, BOTH SIDES OF A LAWSUIT
THAT CHALLENGES THE WAY
POLITICAL ADS WILL BE REGULATED
IN WISCONSIN AND THE STATE
PENSION FUND, A COOKIE JAR FOR
THE NEXT GOVERNOR LOOKING FOR
MONEY TO FIX THE BUDGET?
WE’LL TAKE THAT UP IN THE
MONTHLY CAPITOL INSIGHT SEGMENT.
BUT FIRST, MILWAUKEE PUBLIC
SCHOOLS, A DISTRICT DESCRIBED
IN DEEP TROUBLE, FAILING TO
MAKE THE GRADE UNDER NO CHILD
LEFT BEHIND.
4TH GRADE READING SCORES AMONG
THE WORST IN THE NATION.
AND THEY HAVE LAID OFF HUNDREDS
OF TEACHERS COMING INTO THE NEW
SCHOOL YEAR.
THE NEW BOSS SAYING MPS CANNOT
BEAR THE EMPLOYEE BENEFIT
PACKAGE.
WE ASKED HIM WHY HE WANTED THIS
JOB.
>> AS I LOOKED AROUND THE
COUNTRY AND I LOOKED AT WHERE I
AM IN MY CAREER, I WANTED TO BE
A PLACE WHERE I WANTED TO BE
PART OF A NATIONAL REFORM TO
MEET THE NEEDS OF URBAN
YOUNGSTERS IN THIS COUNTRY.
I THINK MILWAUKEE’S POSITION TO
DO THAT.
I THINK THE INGREDIENTS FOR
SUCCESSFUL REFORM ARE IN PLACE
AND IF WE CAN DO IT HERE IN
MILWAUKEE WE CAN BEGIN A
NATIONAL CONVERSATION AROUND
WHAT IT TAKES TO TURN AROUND
URBAN EDUCATION.
>> WHAT ARE THE INGREDIENTS FOR
REFORM?
>> THERE ARE MANY.
ONE IS TEACHER QUALITY.
TWO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SUPPORTS,
YOU HAVE TO HAVE COMMUNITIES
THAT UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE
AND HAS A SENSE OF URGENCY THAT
I THINK SHOULD BE A MORE
IMPERATIVE, SOME MIGHT SAY
AROUND THE FACT THAT EDUCATION
IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT
INDUSTRY IN AMERICA TODAY.
BASICALLY BECOMES THE BEDROCK
OF EVERYTHING WE DO.
AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE
DAY, GOOD QUALITY LEADERSHIP
AND I SEE ALL THOSE THINGS, THE
POTENTIAL HERE IN MILWAUKEE TO
BRING THOSE THINGS TOGETHER, TO
CHANGE LIVES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE
IN THIS STATE.
>> AND YET THE U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF EDUCATION APPARENTLY DIDN’T
SEE THOSE THINGS IN MILWAUKEE
OR ACROSS THE REST OF THE STATE
OF WISCONSIN BECAUSE WE FAILED
TO MAKE IT IN THE LAST ROUND OF
RACE TO THE TOP.
>> THAT WAS UNFORTUNATE.
WE HAD A LOT OF HOPES FOR THE
RACE TO THE TOP, YET WE,
THERE’S A RACE GOING ON RIGHT
NOW IN MILWAUKEE, AND CERTAINLY
WE WON’T BE PART OF THE STATE
INITIATIVE BUT I BELIEVE BASED
ON THE SCHOOL GRANTS, WE WERE
ONE OF THE RECEIVERS OF THE I—3
GRANTS, I BELIEVE WE HAVE THE
INGREDIENTS TO LAUNCH A RACE
FOR THE TOP HERE IN MILWAUKEE.
>> YOU BELIEVE THE KINDS OF
MONIES COMING INTO THIS
DISTRICT TO HELP MAKE THAT
REFORM ARE EQUAL TO WHAT RACE
FOR THE TOP MIGHT HAVE BROUGHT
IN?
>> BY NO MEANS, AT THE TOP OF
THE RACE FOR THE TOP THERE WERE
$50 MILLION APPROPRIATIONS FOR
SOME ORGANIZATIONS.
WE HAVE A $45 MILLION
APPROPRIATION TO WORK ON THE
MOST CHALLENGING SCHOOLS.
NO LONGER CAN WE ALLOW SCHOOLS
TO CONTINUE TO FAIL AND WE HAVE
IDENTIFIED A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS
IN THIS DISTRICT THAT WILL
RECEIVE SIGNIFICANT
INTERVENTION TO BEGIN TO
TRANSFORM THEMSELVES.
WE HAVE TWO SCHOOLS WE WILL
RESTART, I THINK.
GONE ARE THE DAYS WE CAN ALLOW
THE STUDENT POPULATION TO NOT
BE LITERATE OR HAVE CAPABILITY,
AND WE’LL BE IN A POSITION TO
DO THAT.
>> WHAT’S THE FIRST THING YOU
DO IN A FAILING SCHOOL?
AN
>> ACKNOWLEDGE THE BRUTAL FACTS.
REVENUE IS CERTAINLY A
CHALLENGE BUT WE FEEL
ENCOURAGED BY REVENUE.
THE REVENUE THAT’S COMING INTO
THE DISTRICT.
FOR ME, I’M REALLY FOCUSING ON
EFFICIENCIES, EFFICIENT
OPERATIONS OF THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT.
WE ARE CHALLENGED, WE WERE ONCE
A DISTRICT WITH 120,000
STUDENTS, NOW A DISTRICT WITH
82,000.
WE HAVE SOME STRONG
INFRASTRUCTURE CHALLENGES, AND
40,000 VACANT SEATS.
I HAVE MORE VACANT SEATS THAN
THE SECOND LARGEST SCHOOL
DISTRICT IN THE STATE.
WE NEED THE RIGHT SIZE OF
SCHOOL DISTRICT.
WE HAVE STRUCTURAL CHALLENGES
WITH RESPECT TO BENEFITS AND
HOW WE SUPPORT FOLKS.
RIGHT NOW BENEFIT RATES 75% IF
YOU WOULD ASK ANYONE IN
INDUSTRY, ANY C.E.O. HE WOULD
TELL YOU, OR SHE WOULD TELL YOU
THAT ONCE THEY GET OVER 30%
COST OF LABOR, THE PROFIT
MARGINS BEGIN TO DIMINISH.
AND AS WE MOVE FORWARD WE NEED
TO CONFRONT ISSUES SUCH AS THAT
AND WE ARE CAPABLE AND READY TO
DO SO.
>> HOW DO YOU CONFRONT ISSUES
SUCH AS TEACHERS, NOT JUST
BENEFITS AND PAY, BUT HOW GOOD
THEY ARE.
>> WELL, I THINK TEACHER
QUALITY, NO MATTER WHO YOU ASK
RIGHT NOW, I THINK THEY WOULD
SAY IT’S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST
CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE.
WE HAVE TO BEGIN TO HAVE
SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR
TEACHERS AROUND RETOOLING HOW
THEY DELIVER IN THE CLASSROOM.
IT GOES BACK FARTHER THAN THAT.
WE HAVE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS
WITH THE HIGHER EDUCATION
PARTNERS TO ENSURE THE YOUNG
FOLK AND MIDDLE AGE FOLK AND
FOLKS WHO TRANSITION TO THE
BUSINESS ARE READY AND CAPABLE.
THE WAY TO BEGIN TO WORK ON
TEACHER QUALITY, HAVE THE DATA
TO DRIVE DECISIONS AND
PRACTICES.
AND WHEN I LOOK AT THE DATA
HERE IN MILWAUKEE, CERTAINLY A
CALL OF URGENCY, A CALL OF
ACTION THAT WE GOT TO BEGIN
LOOKING INTO DOING THINGS
DIFFERENTLY.
LET ME TELL YOU WHAT WE HAVE
DONE SO FAR.
WHEN WE ARRIVED AND THE
DISTRICT WAS WELL UNDERWAY,
BOARD WAS VERY MUCH COMMITTED
TO A COMPREHENSIVE LITERACY
PLAN.
THAT PLAN HAS BEEN EXECUTED.
IT’S BEEN APPROVED BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION AND WE FEEL VERY
GOOD ABOUT THAT.
WE HAVE GONE FROM A DISTRICT
THAT HAD 17 OR 25, 17 TO 25
TEXTBOOKS, DEPENDING WHO YOU
ASK FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO
BASICALLY WORK FROM IN THE AREA
OF LITERACY, WE HAVE GONE TO
ONE TEXTBOOK SERIES THAT
BASICALLY I THINK THAT HAS
REALLY GREAT TIMING, PLANNING
AND TIMING GUIDELINES, STRONG
STAFF DEVELOPMENT, AS WELL AS
CLEAR ASSESSMENTS THAT WE CAN
MAKE MID COURSE CORRECTIONS.
>> THIS DISTRICT HAS BEEN IN
TROUBLE FOR SO MANY YEARS, I
MEAN, INTO DECADES PEOPLE
DESCRIBE IT AS WHOLE
GENERATIONS OF CHILDREN IN
MILWAUKEE BEING FAILED IN THIS
WAY.
WHY DO YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF
ENERGY AND CONFIDENCE THAT YOU
CAN MAKE A CHANGE?
>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.
ONE, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU
THAT IT’S BIGGER THAN THE
DISTRICT.
THIS IS A CITY CHALLENGE.
WHEN YOUNGSTERS DON’T READ,
IT’S A STATE CHALLENGE.
AND MILWAUKEE, BEING AT THE
POSITION THEY ARE IN THE STATE,
IT’S ONE THAT I HOPE THE STATE
WOULD HOPEFULLY JOIN WITH US IN
THIS CALL TO ACTION.
BECAUSE I THINK WHEN MILWAUKEE
SCHOOLS ARE CHALLENGED, I THINK
IT CHALLENGES THE ENTIRE STATE.
BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION
SPECIFICALLY, I SEE, WHEN I
BEGAN TO TALK ABOUT THE
INGREDIENTS, I SEE A CITY THAT
HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THE CHALLENGE
AND IS PREPARED TO STEP IN.
A —— THE BUSINESS COMMUNITIES
ARE SAYING THE SAME THING, AND
I HEAR A RESOUNDING COMMITMENT
ON THE LABOR AS WELL AS BOARDS,
AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE
INGREDIENTS COMING TOGETHER,
WHAT I WOULD CALL A PERFECT
STORM, WE ARE IN A POSITION TO
MOVE FORWARD.
I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF
OPTIMISM, SEEN THE SCHOOLS
TURNED AROUND, I WATCHED THE
WORK IN PHILADELPHIA
PROFICIENCY LEVELS FROM 3 TO
45, NOT WHERE WE WANTED THEM
BUT WE SHOWED A SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF GROWTH.
>> MORE THAN 350 TEACHERS ARE
OUT OF A JOB IN MILWAUKEE
COMING INTO THE NEW SCHOOL YEAR.
IN PART, BECAUSE OF THE HIGH
COST OF THEIR PAY AND BENEFITS
PACKAGE.
SUPERINTENDENT THORNTON SAYS
FROM NOW ON THE FOCUS MUST BE
ON STUDENTS.
HE SAYS STARTING THIS YEAR,
THERE ARE NEW POLICIES ON
PROMOTING STUDENTS FROM ONE
GRADE TO THE NEXT.
HE SAYS UNTIL NOW STUDENTS
WITHOUT REQUIRED SKILLS HAVE
BEEN PASSED ON FROM GRADE TO
GRADE.
WE MOVE NOW TO THE ONGOING
GOVERNOR’S RACE AND OUR SERIES
OF ONE ON ONE INTERVIEWS WITH
THE CANDIDATES.
WE HAVE CHECKED WITHIN
REPUBLICANS MARK NEWMAN AND
SCOTT WALKER.
TONIGHT WE TURN TO MR. BARRETT
IN MILWAUKEE.
>> GREAT TO BE HERE.
>> I KNOW YOU WANT TO PUT
MADISON ON A DIET TO CUT MORE
THAN A BILLION DOLLARS, FROM
THE DEFICIT.
IT BETTER BE A CRASH DIET.
>> IT’S GOING TO BE AN
EFFECTIVE DIET.
TAKING A LOOK AT THE OPERATIONS
IN STATE GOVERNMENT AND SOME
RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN STATE
GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT, AND THIS IS
RELEVANT BECAUSE YOU WERE JUST
TALKING ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE
IN MILWAUKEE IS TRYING TO FIND
WAYS TO HAVE MORE COST
EFFICIENCIES FOR STATE
EMPLOYEES AND LOCAL EMPLOYEES
SO THAT THEY CAN GET A BETTER
BARGAIN AND BRING DOWN THE COST
TO THE TAXPAYERS.
IT’S ONE THING.
MORE EFFECTIVE USES OF
TECHNOLOGY.
REVAMPING OUR PURCHASING WAYS,
AND LOOKING AT THE ELIMINATION
OF SOME OFFICES LIKE THE
SECRETARY OF STATE’S OFFICE.
>> AND I KNOW THAT, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE COMBINING OF
HEALTH INSURANCE OF GOVERNMENT
AND SCHOOL EMPLOYEES IS, HAS A
PRICE TAG ACCORDING TO YOUR
DIET PLAN OF ABOUT $339 MILLION.
YOU HAVE $200 MILLION TO GET
THE BADGERCARE ENROLLEES TO
CHOOSE CHEAPER PLANS.
THE HIRING OF STATE WORKERS FOR
$34 MILLION. AND THE DIET PLAN
ADDS UP TO MORE THAN A BILLION
DOLLARS.
BUT THERE IS A BILLION AND A
HALF LEFT.
>> THIS WAS THE START.
WE WANTED TO SET THE STAGE THAT
WE ARE THE CAMPAIGN AND BEEN
EFFECTIVE IN THIS IN BEING
SUBSTANTIVE.
WE HAD THE 67 PAGE JOB PLAN AND
A PLAN ON CUTTING WASTE IN
MADISON.
AND WE WANTED TO PLAY THE
GROUND WORK, KNOWING THERE IS
MORE WORK THAT HAS TO BE DONE.
AND IT’S IMPORTANT THAT YOU
HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MAJOR COST
CENTERS, THE UNIVERSITY AND
TECHNICAL SCHOOLS, MEDICARE,
BADGERCARE, AID TO LOCAL
GOVERNMENT, CERTAINLY THE
CORRECTIONS SYSTEM.
AND ALL OF THOSE AREAS ARE
AREAS WHERE WE ARE GOING TO
HAVE TO ACHIEVE SOME EFFICIENCY.
>> DO YOU RAISE TAXES TO GET
SOME REVENUE?
>> I AM NOT LOOKING AT RAISING
TAXES.
IT’S NOT THE TIME TO RAISE
TAXES.
>> WHAT ABOUT SCHOOL SPENDING
AND CUTS THERE.
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS THE MAJOR
PART OF THE STATE BUDGET.
HOW DO YOU AVOID STEEP CUTS TO
SCHOOLS?
>> I THINK AS THE
SUPERINTENDENT SAID, THE FOCUS
HAS TO BE ON GETTING THE
DOLLARS INTO THE CLASSROOM AND
THAT MEANS MAKING SURE THAT WE
ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN,
FOCUSING ON HOW WE CAN HAVE
SMALLER CLASS SIZES AND MAKING
SURE THAT THE DOLLARS ARE THERE
THAT GO INTO THE CLASSROOM.
THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
THE BUREAUCRACY AND THE SCHOOL
SYSTEMS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN TO MAKE SURE NOT TOO
MUCH MONEY IS BEING SPENT ON
BUREAUCRACY.
>> WHAT ABOUT WHEN THE STIMULUS
MONEY RUNS OUT.
>> I THINK THIS WEEK THE U.S.
SENATE PASSED A BILL THAT WOULD
PROVIDE $367 MILLION TO THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN FOR MEDICAID
AND FOR EDUCATION.
IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING TO
SEE WHAT THE REPUBLICAN
CANDIDATES SAY, WHETHER THEY
WILL TURN THE MONEY DOWN.
THEY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
TURNING THEIR BACK ON THE
FEDERAL DOLLARS.
I WANT THE DOLLARS TO STAVE OFF
EVEN DEEPER CUTS IN HEALTH CARE
AND EDUCATION.
>> THE FLIP SIDE KIND OF TO
CUTS IS JOB CREATION AND I KNOW
YOU REFERENCED IT, BUT YOU HAVE
A NEARLY 70—PAGE REPORT
DETAILING YOUR IDEAS THERE.
WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT?
>> THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT ARE
VERY IMPORTANT.
A VENTURE CAPITAL FUND HERE IN
THE STATE OF WISCONSIN SIMILAR
TO OHIO.
WE KNOW THAT 97% OF THE
EMPLOYEES IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN ARE SMALL EMPLOYERS.
AND I WANT TO FIND WAYS FOR
THEM TO HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL
IN THE STATE.
START—UPS TO HAVE ACCESS TO
CAPITAL.
AND ALSO TALKED ABOUT TAX
CREDITS THAT ARE TIED DIRECTLY
TO JOB CREATION. IT’S
SOMETHING THAT HAS WORKED AND
HAS ALLOWED US TO CREATE JOBS
AND I THINK THAT’S A POWERFUL
TOOL AS WELL.
MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE KNOW
THAT THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE IS
FRONT AND CENTER ON DOING
EVERYTHING IT CAN TO RETAIN,
ATTRACT AND CREATE JOBS.
THAT’S MY NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
I WANT THE ACTIVITIES IN MY
OFFICE AS GOVERNOR SO WE CAN DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN BECAUSE WE
KNOW WHAT THE PRIORITY IS.
WE KNOW PEOPLE ARE HURTING
AROUND THE STATE AND WE HAVE TO
BE VERY PROACTIVE AND
AGGRESSIVE IN CREATING JOBS.
THAT’S WHAT I WANT TO DO AS THE
GOVERNOR OF THE STATE, AND I
HAVE DONE AS THE MAYOR OF
MILWAUKEE.
>> CANDIDATES HAVE ATTACHED A
NUMBER OF THE NUMBER OF JOBS
THAT WOULD BE CREATED UNDER
THEIR ADMINISTRATION’S.
DO YOU HAVE ONE?
>> I TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF
JOBS WE LOST DURING THE
RECESSION, ABOUT 180,000 JOBS
AND WHEN YOU ARE UNDERWATER,
THE FIRST GOAL IS GET ABOVE
WATER.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS MOVE
AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN TO REGAIN
THE 180,000 JOBS WE LOST IN THE
UNPRECEDENTED DOWNTURN.
>> MORE HEADLINES ABOUT HARLEY
DAVIDSON MOVING OUT OF
WISCONSIN BUT SAYING THEY WOULD
CONSIDER AN INCENTIVE PACKAGE
TO STAY.
IF YOU WERE GOVERNOR, WHAT
WOULD YOU OFFER?
>> I HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN
CONVERSATIONS WITH HARLEY
DAVIDSON BECAUSE THE CITY,
OBVIOUSLY, VALUES HARLEY
DAVIDSON.
I WANT THEM TO STAY.
I WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN
TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CONTINUE
TO PRODUCE THE WORLD FAMOUS
BICYCLES HERE —— MOTORCYCLE
HERE AND TO EMPLOYEE PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.
>> IS THEIR IDEA ABOUT MOVING
CONNECTED TO COMBINED REPORTING?
>> NO, THE C.E.O. AND OTHERS IN
THE COMPANY HAVE STATED THIS IS
ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH
THEIR WORKERS.
THEY ARE TRYING TO BRING THEIR
COST IN LINE WITH THEIR
COMPETITORS AND THE LABOR
MARKETS HERE IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN AND OTHER PARTS OF
THE COUNTRY.
SO WHEN PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO
FEED THAT BAIT, THEY HAVE MADE
IT CLEAR, AND CLEAR TO ME THEY
WANT POLITICS TO STAY OUT OF IT.
THIS IS ABOUT WORKING WITH
THEIR EMPLOYEES TO REALLY RIGHT
SIZE THEIR WORK FORCE AND TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY’RE
COMPETITIVE IN A VERY
COMPETITIVE MARKET.
>> TOM BARRETT, THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
FREDERICA.
>> ONLY FIVE WEEKS TO THE FALL
PRIMARY, SEPTEMBER 14th.
WE’LL HAVE A SPECIAL EDITION OF
"HERE AND NOW" ON SEPTEMBER 10.
A LAST LOOK AT THE CANDIDATES
AND ISSUES BEFORE THE FINAL
STRETCH INTO NOVEMBER’S GENERAL
ELECTION.
ON THE TOPIC OF ELECTIONS, A
NEW RULE WENT INTO EFFECT THAT
REQUIRES POLITICAL ISSUE ADS TO
DISCLOSE THE SOURCE OF THE
MONEY THAT PAID FOR THE MESSAGE.
IF IT COMES, IMMEDIATELY BEFORE
AN ELECTION.
TWO GROUPS FROM OPPOSITE SIDES
OF THE POLITICAL AISLE, ONE
CONSERVATIVE AND ONE LIBERAL,
HAVE FILED SUIT AGAINST THE NEW
GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD
RULE TO STOP IT IN ITS TRACKS.
THE SUIT SAYS THE RULE IS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
A VIOLATION OF FREE SPEECH.
MIKE MCKAY OF THE WISCONSIN
DEMOCRACY CAMPAIGN CALLS THE
SUIT BASELESS AND FRIVOLOUS.
RICK ESENBERG, A PROFESSOR AT
MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY SAYS IT’S
NEITHER.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE.
>> PROFESSOR, WHAT IS WRONG
WITH HAVING TO DISCLOSE WHO
PAID FOR SUCH AN AD?
IT DOESN’T LIMIT SPEECH, IT
ADDS TO IT.
>> TWO AREAS OF DIFFICULTY WITH
THE NEW RULE.
ONLY ONE IS DISCLOSURE.
THE FIRST DIFFICULTY IS THAT
THIS WILL REQUIRE ORGANIZATIONS
WHO WISH TO SPEAK TO ISSUES
PRIOR TO AN ELECTION TO
REGISTER AND TO MAKE
DISCLOSURES, TO PROVIDE
DISCLAIMERS, AND THAT MIGHT BE
FINE IF WE WERE TALKING SOLELY
ABOUT WELL—FUNDED ORGANIZATIONS
RUNNING BROADCAST ADS.
THE RULE GOES FAR BEYOND THAT.
IT APPLIES TO ANY INDIVIDUAL OR
ORGANIZATION THAT SPENDS MORE
THAN $25 ON A POLITICAL
COMMUNICATION.
AND THAT IS GOING TO DETOUR
GRASSROOTS POLITICAL
PARTICIPATION AND SERVE AS A
TRACK FOR THE UNWARY.
BEYOND THAT, THERE IS A LONG
TRADITION IN OUR HISTORY OF
DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS BEING
USED TO DETER SPEECH, WHETHER
IT WAS DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS
IMPOSED ON THE NAACP IN ALABAMA
IN THE 1950s OR MORE RECENTLY
ATTEMPTS TO RETALIATE AGAINST
PROPOSITION 8 IN CALIFORNIA.
DISCLOSURE IS A BURDEN.
NOW THAT BURDEN MIGHT BE
JUSTIFIED WHEN WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT EXPRESS ADVOCACY,
EXPRESSLY CALLING FOR THE
DEFEAT OR ELECTION OF A
CANDIDATE BUT NOT WITH RESPECT
TO ISSUE ADVOCACY.
THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE HERE.
>> LET ME ASK MIKE MCCABE ABOUT
THAT.
HE BRINGS UP THE NATURE OF
BEING CUMBERSOME AND LIMITING
FREE SPEECH.
>> IT CERTAINLY DOESN’T LIMIT
SPEECH.
NOTHING IN THE RULE THAT STOPS
ANYBODY FROM COMMUNICATING
THEIR MESSAGE.
IT DOESN’T LIMIT MESSAGES OR
RESTRICT MESSAGES AT ALL.
IT SIMPLY REQUIRES DISCLOSURE
OF WHO THESE GROUPS ARE AND
WHERE THEY GET THEIR MONEY AND
HOW MUCH THEY ARE SPENDING TO
INFLUENCE AN ELECTION.
THE SUPREME COURT IN JANUARY
RULED CORPORATIONS AND UNIONS
CAN SPEND WHATEVER THEY LIKE TO
INFLUENCE ELECTIONS BUT THE
COURT ALSO RULED THEY CANNOT DO
IT SECRETLY.
THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEND BUT
HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
DISCLOSE.
THAT’S WHAT THE RULE DOES IS IT
WORKS ON THE PART OF THE
PACKAGE THAT’S THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO DISCLOSE.
>> AND I WANT TO GET TO THAT
POINT IN A MINUTE WITH THE
PROFESSOR.
BUT MIKE, WHEN DOES IT MATTER
THAT WE KNOW WHO IS PAYING?
>> YOU KNOW, IF YOU GET A
MESSAGE THAT FRIGIDAIRE HAS THE
BEST APPLIANCES, IT’S GOOD TO
KNOW IF IT COMES FROM CONSUMER
REPORTS OR THE COMPANY.
WHO IS BEHIND IT AND WHO IS
PAYING FOR IT COMMUNICATES AN
AWFUL LOT TO THE AUDIENCE ABOUT
WHETHER IT SHOULD BE GIVEN
GREAT WEIGHT OR SHOULD BE
DISMISSED.
AND IN ELECTIONS VOTERS ARE
KEPT IN THE DARK ABOUT WHO IS
REALLY BEHIND ALL THE CAMPAIGN
MESSAGES, WHO IS DOING THE
SPENDING AND WE ARE KEPT IN THE
DARK ABOUT WHO IS PAYING FOR
ALL THIS.
>> PROFESSOR ESENBERG, WHAT
ABOUT THAT POINT?
>> THE DECISION OF CITIZENS
UNITED THAT MR. MCCABE REFERS
TO DEALT WITH EXPRESS ADVOCACY,
COMMUNICATION THAT EXPRESSLY
CALL FOR AN ELECTION OR DEFEAT
OF A CANDIDATE.
THAT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE DEALING
WITH HERE.
WE ARE DEALING WITH ISSUE ADS.
AND MR. MCCABE’S RATIONALE
REALLY PROVES TOO MUCH.
THE INTEREST HE POSITS IN THE
AUDIENCE KNOWING WHO SPONSORED
THE AD IS NOT LIMITED TO 30
DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION.
IT APPLIES EQUALLY AT ANY TIME
AND YET WE HAVE A LONG
TRADITION OF ANONYMOUS
FEDERALIST SPEECH.
THE FEDERAL PAPERS WERE WRITTEN
ANONYMOUSLY, GOOD REASON FOR
THAT.
THE RULE DOES NOT PROHIBIT
SPEECH BUT I THINK COMMON SENSE
TELLS US THAT WHEN YOU REQUIRE
DISCLOSURE OF THE IDENTITY OF
PEOPLE WHO MAY BE TAKING
CONTROVERSIAL POSITIONS, THAT
WILL CONSTITUTE A BURDEN OF
SPEECH, DETER SOME OF THEM FROM
SPEAKING AND AGAIN, AS CITIZENS
UNITED SAID, THE STATE MAY HAVE
AN INTEREST IN DOING THAT, MR.
—— THERE MIGHT BE A DEBT OF
GRATITUDE.
>> TARGET FOUND A POSSIBLE
CUSTOMER BOYCOTT OVER A
DONATION IN MINNESOTA.
IS THAT WHAT SOME PEOPLE
SPENDING MONEY ON THE ADS ARE
WORRIED ABOUT?
>> IF I UNDERSTAND THE TARGET
SITUATION, THAT WAS DIRECTLY TO
A CANDIDATE AND I THINK THE
DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS RAISE
QUITE DIFFERENT ISSUES THERE.
THE SUPREME COURT HAS DRAWN A
DISTINCTION BETWEEN EXPRESS ADS
AND ISSUE ADVOCACY AND THE
STATE DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME
INTEREST IN REGULATING ISSUE
ADVOCACY.
>> MIKE MCCABE, YOU ARE SHAKING
YOUR HEAD.
>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.
FIRST, THE TARGET SITUATION DID
NOT HAVE TO DO WITH
CONTRIBUTIONS TO A CANDIDATE,
IT HAD TO DO WITH CAN ——
CONTRIBUTIONS TO A FRONT GROUP
THAT IS GOING TO RUN A LOT OF
FRONT ADS.
AND THE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW WHO
IS BEHIND THE ADS AND IT’S
IMPORTANT TO NOTE HERE THAT THE
RULE DOESN’T IN ANY WAY DEAL
WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE SIMPLY
DISCUSSING ISSUES.
THEY HAVE TO DISCUSS CANDIDATES.
THEY HAVE TO TAKE A POSITION ON
THE FITNESS OF A PARTICULAR
CANDIDATE FOR OFFICE IN ORDER
FOR THIS RULE TO HAVE ANY
BEARING WHATSOEVER AND TO
REQUIRE ANY DISCLOSURE.
SO, IF IT’S JUST DISCUSSION OF
ISSUES, PEOPLE AREN’T GOING TO
HAVE TO DISCLOSE A THING.
AND IF THEY ENTER INTO A
SITUATION WHERE THEY ARE
EXPRESSING A PREFERENCE ABOUT A
CANDIDATE AS THEY DISCUSS
ISSUES, THEN THEY CAN DO IT TO
THEIR HEART’S CONTENT, SPEND AS
MUCH AS THEY WANT, BUT THEY DO
NEED TO LET THE VIEWER OR THE
AUDIENCE KNOW WHO THEY ARE, HOW
MUCH THEY SPEND, AND HOW MUCH,
AND WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING
FROM.
>> RICK ESENBERG IS SHAKING HIS
HEAD.
GO AHEAD.
>> THAT’S RIGHT.
AND MIKE WILL SHAKE HIS HEAD AS
SOON AS I BEGIN TO SPEAK.
HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE.
IT ISN’T, THE AD ISN’T LIMITED
TO WHEN A SPEAKER EXPRESSES A
PREFERENCE FOR A CANDIDATE IN
THE SENSE OF SAYING I WANT YOU
TO VOTE FOR THIS CANDIDATE OR
AGAINST THIS CANDIDATE.
IT APPLIES WHENEVER SOMEONE
EXPRESSES SOMETHING THAT
CRITICIZES OR SUPPORTS A
CANDIDATE’S POSITION ON AN
ISSUE.
AND IMAGINE A PEACE
ORGANIZATION THAT WANTED TO
SPONSOR A RALLY IN ADVANCE OF
THE 2000, OR 2008 ELECTIONS
CRITICIZING THE PRESIDENT’S
POLICY IN IRAQ.
IF THEY MENTIONED THE
PRESIDENT, THEY WOULD BE
SUBJECT TO THIS RULE.
I THINK THAT GOES TOO FAR.
>> AND WE NEED TO LEAVE IT
THERE.
WE KNOW IT’S IN THE COURTS AND
WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A HEARING
COMING UP, I BELIEVE IT’S
AUGUST 12th.
THANKS TO YOU BOTH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> AND NOW A SECOND FEDERAL
LAWSUIT HAS BEEN FILED OVER
WISCONSIN’S CAMPAIGN FINANCE
LAW AND THE LATEST REGULATION.
WISCONSIN RIGHT TO LIFE SAYING
THE REGULATIONS ARE A BAN ON
FREE SPEECH.
AND SPEAKING OF BIG MONEY AND
CONTRIBUTIONS IN TONIGHT’S
CAPITOL INSIGHT SEGMENT WE
FOCUS ON BOTH.
SHAWN JOHNSON IS HERE.
>> HEY, FRED.
>> WITH THE RECENT SUPREME
COURT RULING THAT IT’S ILLEGAL
TO RAID THE PATIENTS
COMPENSATION FUND AND THE
CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR SAYING
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GO TO THE
TRANSPORTATION FUND, WE
WONDERED WHAT ELSE IS OUT THERE.
THE BIG PENSION FUND.
>> AS FAR AS FUNDS GO, IT’S
HUGE.
$73 BILLION AT THE END OF
DECEMBER LAST YEAR.
AND GIVEN WISCONSIN’S HISTORY
OF RAIDING FUNDS, ONE—TIME
FIXES TO BALANCED BUDGET, SEEMS
LIKE A GOOD QUESTION TO ASK.
>> IS IT SAFE, CAN THEY RAID IT?
>> AND IT AGAINST ON HOW YOU
DEFINE RAID.
IF BY RAID YOU MEAN REACH INTO
THE FUND AND TAKE OUT SEVERAL
HUNDRED MILLION OR BILLIONS TO
BALANCE THE STATE BUDGET,
PROBABLY NOT.
FORMER GOVERNOR TOMMY THOMPSON
TRIED TO DO A VARIATION OF THAT
IN THE 1980s AND THE COURT
STRUCK IT DOWN AND MADE THE
STATE PAY IT BACK WITH INTEREST.
IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TAKING
MONEY THAT WAS SCHEDULED TO GO
INTO THE FUND AND USING IT
BEFORE IT GETS THERE, THAT’S A
DIFFERENT STORY.
>> AND THERE ARE PEOPLE TALKING
ABOUT THAT, ESPECIALLY SCOTT
WALKER, REPUBLICAN FOR GOVERNOR.
HE HAS A PLAN THAT WOULD MAKE
EMPLOYEES PAY THEIR OWN
CONTRIBUTION.
RIGHT NOW THE STATE PAYS BOTH
ITS CONTRIBUTION AND THE
EMPLOYEES’ CONTRIBUTION.
WE ASKED WALKER ABOUT THIS AND
SAID THIS WAS A UNION
BARGAINING MATTER.
>> MORE FURLOUGHS, MORE
LAY—OFFS, AND MORE JOB
REDUCTIONS, THE REALITY, YOU
CANNOT HAVE WAGES AND BENEFITS
HERE IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR AND
THE PEOPLE PAYING THE BILLS
HAVING BENEFITS HERE.
HAS TO BE A BALANCE.
>> IN RESPONSE TO SCOTT
WALKER’S OR ANYBODY’S PLANS TO
TAP INTO THE PENSION IN ANY
WAY, THE HEAD OF THE LARGEST
STATE EMPLOYEES’ UNION HAD THIS
TO SAY.
EVERY TIME THERE IS BIG MONEY,
EVERYBODY WANTS TO STEAL FROM
THE POT.
IN THE END IT WILL COST MUCH,
MUCH MORE FOR TAXPAYERS THAN
WHATEVER THEY USE TO PAY THE
DEBT DOWN.
WHEN PEOPLE RETIRE, THE MONEY
HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE.
IF SCOTT WALKER GOT HIS WAY ON
THIS, IT WOULD JUST BE A
MATTER, ACCORDING TO HIM, OF
STATE EMPLOYEES MAKING THEIR
OWN CONTRIBUTION.
>> RIGHT.
IT WOULD BE COMING OUT OF THEIR
POCKETS INSTEAD OF COMING OUT
OF THE FUND.
IT’S NOT THE ONLY WAY THE FUND
GETS MONEY.
THE STATE ALSO PAYS THE
EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION FOR THESE
EMPLOYEES, AND IN SOME STATES
WITH SERIOUS BUDGET TROUBLE,
FOR EXAMPLE NEW JERSEY, THE
STATES HAVE SAID WE ARE GOING
TO SKIP THE PAYMENT THIS YEAR,
WE’LL TAKE A HOLIDAY ON THESE
PAYMENTS.
IT’S AN EASY SHORT—TERM FIX,
BUT ENDS UP COSTING BIG OVER
THE LONG—TERM.
>> WHAT ABOUT HERE, DO YOU
THINK IT WOULD HAPPEN HERE?
>> WE ASKED THE CAMPAIGNS IF
THAT WAS SOMETHING THEY WOULD
CONSIDER.
SCOTT WALKER’S CAMPAIGN SAID NO.
REPUBLICAN MARK NEWMAN SAID HE
WOULD CONSIDER ISSUES LIKE THIS
AS PART OF A REVIEW OF THE
BUDGET BUT AGAINST RAIDING
FUNDS, AND DEMOCRAT TOM
BARRETT’S FUND SAID RAIDING
FUNDS WOULD NOT SOLVE
WISCONSIN’S DEFICIT AND THE
LAST THING WE NEED ARE NEW
DEBTS.
>> IF THE STATE TOOK A HOLIDAY
FROM PAYING INTO THE PENSION
FOR ONE YEAR AND EMPLOYEES PAID
THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS ONE YEAR,
IT NETS ABOUT $200 MILLION.
SO IT’S NOT LIKE IT’S SOLVING ——
>> IT’S REAL MONEY, OBVIOUSLY.
BUT NOT GOING TO GO ALL THE WAY
TOWARDS THE $2.5 BILLION BUDGET
SHORTFALL.
>> THANKS.
>> ELECTION COVERAGE CONTINUES
MONDAY MORNING ON THE STATE
CAPITOL REPORT.
7:00, JOY TALKS WITH CANDIDATE
PETER THERON.
THAT’S ALL FOR TONIGHT’S
PROGRAM.
I’M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT PROGRAM.
>> PRESENTATION OF "HERE AND
NOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART
BY THE ANIMAL DENTISTRY AND
ORAL SURGERY SPECIALISTS OF
MILWAUKEE AND OSHKOSH.
A VETERINARY TEAM WORKING WITH
PET OWNERS AND FAMILY
VETERINARIANS THROUGHOUT
WISCONSIN, PROVIDING CARE FOR
ORAL DISEASE AND DENTAL
PROBLEMS OF SMALL COMPANION
ANIMALS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR "HERE
AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE
L.E. PHILLIPS FAMILY FOUNDATION.