>> PRESENTATION OF "HERE & NOW"
IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE
ANIMAL DENTAL CENTER OF
MILWAUKEE AND OSHKOSH, A
VETERINARY TEAM WORKING WITH PET
OWNERS AND FAMILY VETERINARIANS
THROUGHOUT WISCONSIN, PROVIDING
CARE FOR ORAL DISEASE AND DENTAL
PROBLEMS OF SMALL COMPANION
ANIMALS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR "HERE &
NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE LE
PHILLIPS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
>> HEY, YOU GUYS SEE THAT FLOOR
THAT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY IS
WATCHING THE GAME BEING PLAYED
ON?
YOU CAN SAY WE DID IT.
>> A SMALL FLOORING COMPANY IS
IN THE BIG LEAGUES AS THE NCAA
BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT GETS
UNDERWAY, GAMES PLAYED ON COURTS
MADE IN MILWAUKEE.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
THAT STORY TONIGHT ON "HERE &
NOW."
AND WE'LL POUR OVER BOTH SIDES
OF THE RAW MILK DEBATE.
PLUS REPORTER ART HACKETT TAKES
AIM AT THE DEER COUNT
CONTROVERSY.
BUT FIRST, HEALTH CARE REFORM
COULD BE DAYS AWAY.
THE HEALTH PLAN AWAITING ACTION
THIS WEEKEND IN CONGRESS COMES
WITH A COST OF OVER $940 BILLION
OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS.
ALL EYES ARE ON CONGRESS THIS
WEEKEND, BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE
WANT TO PREVIEW THE HEALTH PLAN
WITH LINDA REIVITZ, A HEALTH
POLICY SPECIALIST WITH THE
UW-MADISON SCHOOL OF NURSING.
AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
>> GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> SO OVERALL, WOULD YOU GIVE
THIS LEGISLATION A THUMBS-UP OR
A THUMBS-DOWN?
>> OH, I DEFINITELY GIVE IT A
THUMBS-UP.
NOT EVERYTHING EVERYBODY WANTS.
THERE ARE THINGS IN THERE THAT I
DEFINITELY WOULD NOT WANT.
BUT I THINK OVERALL, WITH MAJOR
LEGISLATION LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE
TO BALANCE THE GOOD VERSUS THE
BAD.
AND WHAT IT DOES IS INSURE 30
MILLION PEOPLE.
EVIDENTEVIDENCE INDICATES IT'S GOING TO
OVER TIME DECREASE OUR FEDERAL
DEFICIT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD THINGS
IN THERE, SO I'D GIVE IT A
THUMBS-UP, NO QUESTION.
>> AND IF YOU HAD TO GRADE IT,
BEING THAT YOU WORK WITH THE
UNIVERSITY, WHAT GRADE WOULD YOU
GIVE IT?
>> OH, LET'S START WITH A B.
SURE.
>> B'S NOT BAD.
>> NOT BAD.
>> NOW, THE MEASURE PROMISES
INSURANCE TO # 95% OF NONELDERLY
PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY BY
EXPANDING MEDICAID AND WITH TAX
CREDITS.
WISCONSIN ALREADY ENJOYS HIGH
ACCESS TO INSURANCE.
HOW WOULD THIS HELP WISCONSIN
SPECIFICALLY?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT
MASSACHUSETTS HAD A SIMILAR
SITUATION WHEN THEY ENACTED
THEIR STATE PLAN.
THEY ACTUALLY INCREASED THEIR --
THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INSURED.
THEY'RE THE STATE WITH THE
LOWEST NUMBER OF UNINSURED NOW.
I THINK WE WILL GO UP.
WE'RE FORTUNATE.
WE'RE ABOUT 93%.
WE'LL GO HIGHER, PERHAPS 96%,
97%.
SO I THINK WE WILL GET MORE
PEOPLE ON INSURANCE.
ACCORDING TO THE BILL, LOTS OF
NOTES AROUND TO SEE IF I CAN
FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY DID
YESTERDAY.
WE WILL GET MORE MONEY FROM
MEDICAID, I BELIEVE.
FOR ALL THE NEW PEOPLE ON
MEDICAID ACTUALLY WILL BE
FEDERALLY FUNDED FOR THE FIRST
TWO OR THREE YEARS.
SO I THINK IT LOOKS LIKE THE
DOUGHNUT HOLE WILL BE CLOSED
OVER TIME FOR THOSE SENIORS IN
WISCONSIN WHO FALL INTO THAT
DOUGHNUT HOLE, THAT AREA WHERE
THEY'RE PAYING 100% OF THEIR
DRUGS.
THAT WILL BE SOLVED.
SO THERE WILL BE A VARIETY OF
THINGS THAT WILL HELP WISCONSIN.
I THINK WE WILL ALSO BE IN GOOD
SHAPE BECAUSE WISCONSIN
PRACTICES NOW IN MANY OF OUR
AREAS, WE KNOW THAT FROM DATA,
WISCONSIN PROVIDERS PRACTICE
HIGH-QUALITY MEDICINE AT
RELATIVELY LOW COST.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE HURT BY
EFFORTS TO DO THAT.
A LOT OF STATES WHICH DON'T
ACHIEVE HIGH QUALITY AND THEIR
COSTS ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN OURS
ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME
DISRUPTIONS AND TROUBLES MEETING
THOSE STANDARDS.
>> LET ME ASK YOU THINK THE MOST
IMPORTANT PRONG OF THIS
LEGISLATION IS.
>> WELL, I THINK THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING IN THE BILL IS
THE HEALTH CARE EXCHANGES.
I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
FOR THE PUBLIC PLAN.
THEY SAY WHY ARE YOU FOR THE
PUBLIC PLAN?
I THINK MORE PEOPLE WILL BE
INSURED.
OR I THINK INSURANCE COMPANIES
OUGHT TO HAVE MORE COMPETITION
AND THAT COMPETITION OUGHT TO
DRIVE DOWN COSTS.
THERE OUGHT TO BE MARKET
EFFICIENCIES IN THE INSURANCE
MARKET.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE OUGHT
TO HAVE REFORM SO THAT INSURANCE
COMPANIES CAN'T EITHER CANCEL
INSURANCE ON PEOPLE OR DENY IT
IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE OF
PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.
ALL THOSE THINGS ARE MET BECAUSE
OF THE EXCHANGE PROVISIONS IN
THE BILL.
AND SO I THINK THAT IF THOSE ARE
POLICY GOALS, THERE'S A LOT IN
THERE TO BE VERY THANKFUL FOR
AND VERY PROUD OF.
>> AND THESE EXCHANGES ALLOW
PEOPLE TO KIND OF SHOP FOR THEIR
INSURANCE PLAN IN THE PRIVATE
MARKET.
>> THEY -- IT IS EXACTLY THAT.
PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN, THOSE OF US
WHO ARE STATE EMPLOYEES, ARE
VERY USED TO THIS.
WE GET A BOOKLET IN THE FALL.
AND IT SAYS HERE'S THE PLAN,
READ IT.
HERE ARE THE PROVIDERS.
AGREE TO ACCEPT THIS INSURANCE.
THESE ARE THE CLINICS YOU CAN GO
TO.
THESE ARE THE DOCTORS WHO ARE
WILLING TO ACCEPT THIS
INSURANCE.
THIS IS WHAT IT COSTS.
>> CONGRESSMAN PAUL RYAN SAYS
THERE ARE COUNTING TRICKS ALL
THROUGHOUT THIS BILL, THOUGH,
THAT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT'S
DEFICIT REDUCTION WHEN IT'S NOT,
AND HE TELLS US TO BE VERY
AFRAID OF THIS LEGISLATION.
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK WHAT I DO WHEN
I -- THERE ARE MANY, MANY
DIFFERENT ESTIMATE NOTICE TERMS
OF -- ESTIMATESIN TERMS OF WHAT IT WILL COST
AND WHETHER IT WILL REDUCE THE
DEFICIT.
I ALWAYS USE ONE ORGANIZATION
THAT PREDICTS SO YOU DON'T HAVE
PEOPLE COUNTING APPLES AND
ORANGES.
AND I THINK WE NEED TO COUNT ON,
NO PUN INTENDED, TO RELY ON
SOMEONE THAT WE HAVE SOME LEVEL
OF TRUST IN, AND THAT'S THE
CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE.
IT'S NONPARTISAN AND I THINK
THEY'RE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN
TO GIVE US AN ESTIMATE AS TO
WHAT IT WILL DO TO THE DEFICIT.
TEN YEARS IS A VERY LONG TIME TO
MAKE AN ESTIMATE.
IN FACT, A TEN-YEAR ESTIMATE IS
A GUESS ESTIMATE.
THERE'S NO QUESTION.
>> BUT THE CBO IS SAYING IT WILL
REDUCE --
>> THEY'RE SAYING IT WILL REDUCE
THE DEFICIT.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
LINDA REIVITZ, THANKS VERY MUCH.
NEXT ON TO WISCONSIN'S DEER
HUNT.
THE DNR ROLLS OUT THE LATEST
ESTIMATES FOR THE HERD.
ART HACKETT HAS THIS REPORT FROM
MARATHON COUNTY.
>> EVERYBODY IS SAYING THAT
WISCONSIN IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF
DEER MANAGEMENT.
>> EVERYONE EXCEPT THE HUNTERS
OF MARATHON COUNTY.
>> WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU THERE
AREN'T THE DEER HERE.
BUT ALL YOU GUYS DO IS JUST
INCREASE THE QUOTA OF THE DEER.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF ANGRY
HUNTERS RIGHT HERE NOW.
>> AFTER SEEING A PRESENTATION
ON THE DISMAL RESULTS FROM LAST
FALL'S DEER HARVEST, HUNTERS
LIKE BOB STERNBERG WERE IN NO
MOOD TO HEAR THE DNR HEAR THAT
SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTY HAD TOO
MANY DEER.
>> I'VE BEEN COUNTING IN
MARATHON COUNTY ALL MY LIFE.
HOW CAN I KEEP MY DAUGHTER
INVOLVED IN THIS IF WE NEVER SEE
NOTHING?
THIS YEAR WE SHOT ZERO DEER THIS
YEAR.
>> THE DNR IS AN EXPECTED TO
MANAGE THE DEER HERD.
>> I RESPECT YOUR NUMBERS.
I THINK 25 DEER PER SQUARE MILE
IS A LOT.
THEY'RE ALL ON MY FARM.
COME DEER SEASON, DEER ARE
THERE, BUT NOT MANY.
BUT JULY, AUGUST AND EARLY
SEPTEMBER, THEY'RE THICKER THAN
FLEAS.
>> HUNTERS AND FARMERS ARE BOTH
MAKING THEIR ESTIMATES BASED ON
THEIR OWN OBSERVATIONS.
THE DNR INSTEAD USES A
MATHEMATICAL MODEL.
IT'S CALLED SAC SAK.
>> WHEN WE COME UP WITH A
POPULATION ESTIMATE --
>> IT'S BASED ON THE NUMBER OF
DEER REGISTERED DURING THE FALL
HUNTING SEASON.
HUNTS ERS HAVEHUNTERS HAVE THEIR OWN
OBSERVATIONS.
>> EVERY YEAR THESE NUMBERS COME
OUT THAT THE POPULATION IS UP,
THE KILL IS UP, THERE'S MORE
DEER THAN EVER.
YET 99% OF THE PEOPLE I TALK TO
SAY THERE'S FEWER OF DEER.
>> WHAT WE CAN SAY FOR CERTAIN
IS THAT THAT WAS THE NUMBER OF
DEER THAT WAS HARVESTED AND
REGISTERED.
SO THAT IS THE NUMBER OF DEER
THAT WAS OUT THERE.
WE CANNOT FUDGE THOSE NUMBERS.
>> WHILE MOST HUNTERS BELIEVE
THE DEER ARE NOT THERE.
>> KAZMIERCZAK OPERATES A
SPORTING GOODS STORE IN
PEWAUKEE.
>> HUNTERS KNOW THEY'RE NOT
SEEING AS MANY DEER NOW AS THEY
SAW 15 YEARS AGO, 10 YEARS AGO
AND 5 YEARS AGO.
>> KAZ MERE SKI KAZMIERCZAK HAS IT LOADED ON
HIS LAPTOP.
A SLIGHT CHANGE IN THE ESTIMATED
PERCENTAGE OF BUCKS THAT DIE
FROM HUNTING OR OTHER NONNATURAL
CAUSES CAN MAKE A BIG CHANGE IN
THE ESTIMATED NUMBER OF DEER PER
ACRE.
HUNTERS DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE
MODEL SAYS.
>> ARE THEY GOING TO TRUST THEIR
OWN OBSERVATIONS AND
PERCEPTIONS, OR ARE THEY GOING
TO TRUST A NUMBER THAT COMES OUT
OF A FORMULA FROM SOMEBODY IN
MADISON THAT HAS NEVER STEPPED
FOOT IN THE WOODS WHERE THEY
LIVE?
>> BUT THE MAN WHO MAY HAVE MORE
EXPERIENCE WITH THE SAK MODEL
THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE DNR
ISN'T IN MADISON.
HE'S IN RHINELANDER.
>> DID YOU GO OUT HUNTING LAST
YEAR?
>> YES.
>> DID YOU SEE A DEER?
>> I DIDN'T.
BUT I HAD A SHORT FIREARM
SEASON.
>> KEITH MCCAFFREY HAS BEEN
RETIRED FOR TEN YEARS, BUT STILL
KEEPS OFFICE HOURS AT THE LOCAL
DNR OFFICE.
>> THERE WERE FIVE OF US THAT
CAMPED.
OF THE FIVE OF US, ONLY MY
BROTHER SAW A DEER IN THE FIRST
FOUR DAYS.
SO THEY WERE NOT MOVING.
WE WERE IN THAT AREA THAT HAS A
PRETTY ABUNDANT DEER POPULATION.
>> BUT THAT DIDN'T MAKE YOU
DISBELIEVE THIS MODEL.
>> OH, NO.
NO.
I HAVE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN
THIS.
I PLAYED WITH IT FOR, WELL, 48
YEARS NOW.
>> ON HIS BOOKSHELF, MCCAN MCCAFFREY
STILL HAS THE YELLOW
DISSERTATION BY A WILDLIFE
BIOLOGIST.
THAT DOCUMENT WHICH DATES TO
1960 IS THE FOUNDATION FOR SAK.
-TDTHE TYPEWRITTEN COLUMNS ARE A
NEAR MATCH FOR THOSE ON TODAY'S
COMPUTER SPREAD SHEETS.
>> WHEN WE WERE FIRST DOING IT
YOU'D TAKE THE TOTAL BUCK
HARVEST THAT OCCURRED.
THEN THE NEXT YEAR YOU'D ADD IN
THE BUCKS THAT WERE 2.5 AND
OLDER.
THE NEXT YEAR 3.5 AND OLDER.
BY 4 YEARS YOU PRETTY MUCH
CAPTURED THE BUCK POPULATION IN
THE STATE.
>> IN 2006 A TEAM OF AUDITORS
FOUND SAK MORE ACCURATE.
BUT THEY ALSO FOUND IT GAVE
ESTIMATES OPPOSITE WHEN CHANGES
IN THE MALE HARVEST RATE ARE
INTRODUCED.
THOSE CHANGES OCCUR AS THE DNR
HAS CREATED RULES AND UNITS
WHICH ARE ABOVE POPULATION GOALS
TO ENCOURAGE HUNTERS TO SHOOT
DOES INSTEAD OF BUCKS.
KAZMIERCZAK SAYS THE DNR HAS
COMPOUNDED THE PROBLEM IN AN
ATTEMPT TO CORRECT SAK'S ERRORS.
>> RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A MISHMASH
OF POP ON YOU HRAEUGS POPULATION MODELS OUT THERE.
NONE OF THE NEW MODELS HAVE BEEN
VERIFIED OR LOOKED AT OR
STUDIED.
SO IT'S CREATING A PROBLEM
STATEWIDE.
>> CRAIG WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT
INTO AN ACCOUNTING MODEL AND IT
IS NOT AN ACCOUNTING MODEL.
I KNOW HE'S ALWAYS BEEN VERY
EXCITED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
WE'RE ADJUSTING ENOUGH FOR ROAD
KILL OR WHATEVER.
AND IN AN ACCOUNTING MODEL, YOU
COULD SUBTRACT OUT THE ROAD
KILL, BUT SOMEWHERE YOU'D HAVE
TO ADD IN THOSE ANIMALS TOO IN
ORDER FOR THE POPULATION
CALCULATIONS TO BALANCE.
>> THIS YEAR, THE DNR BEGAN A
STUDY OF OTHER METHODS, SUCH AS
AERIAL COUNTING.
THE DEPARTMENT WILL ALSO SEE IF
THE BUCK RECOVERY RATES USED IN
THE SAK MODEL ARE ACCURATE.
>> DEAD DEER DON'T LIE.
NOT THAT WE'RE ACCUSING PEOPLE
OF LYING.
BUT WHEN YOU HAVE QUESTIONNAIRE
SURVEYS, YOU ALWAYS HAVE A
QUESTION OF VERACITY OF THE
RESPONDENT, WHETHER OR NOT
THEY'RE TELLING THE TRUTH OR
BRAGGING.
>> MCCAFFREY NOTES IT'S
IMPOSSIBLE TO COUNT EVERY
INDIVIDUAL DEER LIVING IN
WISCONSIN'S WOODS AND PRAIRIES.
THE ONLY EXACT NUMBERS COME FROM
DEAD DEER IN THE BACK OF A
PICKUP.
>> HUNTERS ASK ME HOW DO YOU
COUNT DEER?
I LIKE TO TURN IT AROUND AND
SAY, WELL, YOU COUNT THE DEER.
IF THEY GO OUT AND SHOOT
ANIMALS, BRING THEM INTO THE
REGISTRATION, THAT IS REALLY THE
FOUNDATION FOR OUR POPULATION
MONITORING SYSTEM.
THERE IS NO WAY TO DUPLICATE THE
DATA-GATHERING POWER THAT
700,000 INDIVIDUALS REPRESENT.
YOU TURN THEM LOOSE IN THE
WOODS.
>> ON TUESDAY THE NATURAL
RESOURCES BOARD ANNOUNCED GOALS
THAT SEEK TO PRODUCE HIGHER
POPULATIONS OF DEER IN ROUGHLY A
THIRD OF THE STATE.
THE BOARD ACTED AFTER
LEGISLATORS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE
CALLS THEY WERE GETTING FROM
ANGRY HUNTERS.
WE MOVE NOW TO THE FARM FIELDS
AND A STORY YOU COULD CALL THE
DRAMA IN DAIRYLAND.
IT'S ABOUT UNPASTEURIZED OR RAW
MILK.
A STATE SENATE AG COMMITTEE
FORWARDED A BILL WEDNESDAY THAT
ALLOWS CONTINUED SALES OF RAW
MILK WITH CAVEATS.
AMONG THEM, SALES WOULD BE
LIMITED TO FLUID MILK THAT IS
PRODUCED ON THE FARM WHERE IT
WOULD BE SOLD, THE MILK MUST BE
SOLD DIRECTLY TO THE CONSUMERS,
WHO MUST BRING THEIR OWN
CONTAINERS, SALES COULD NOT BE
ADVERTISED EXCEPT WITH AN
ON-FARM SIGN.
THE BILL ALSO REQUIRES A SIGN TO
BE POSTED DECLARING RAW MILK
DOES NOT PROVIDE THE BENEFITS OF
PASTEURIZATION, MAY CONTAIN
DISEASE-CAUSING PATHOGENS.
IN A MOMENT WE'LL TALK WITH A
DAIRY FARMER WHO'S BEEN SELLING
RAW MILK FOR YEARS.
BUT FIRST THE STATE VETERINARIAN
JOINS US BY PHONE, DR. JIM KAZ
AMERICA ZACH, --KAZMIERCZAK SAYS THE CONCERNS
ARE REAL.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH RAW MILK
ACCORDING TO STATE OFFICIALS?
>> WELL, I THINK ACCORDING TO
PRETTY MUCH ANY PUBLIC HEALTH
OFFICIAL ONE WOULD SPEAK TO, THE
FEELING IS THAT MILK CERTAINLY
IS AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF A
HEALTHY DIET, BUT WHEN MILK AND
THE PRODUCTS MADE FROM MILK ARE
CONSUMED UNPASTEURIZED, THEY CAN
PRESENT A REALLY SIGNIFICANT
PUBLIC HEALTH HAZARD BECAUSE YOU
HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF
CONTAMINATION WITH A WHOLE HOST
OF PATHOGENIC BACTERIA.
AND THESE PATHOGENS, WHICH OCCUR
WITH SOME FREQUENCY IN
UNPASTEURIZED MILK REALLY CAN
CAUSE ILLNESSES THAT ARE NOT
TRIVIAL.
SOME PEOPLE ARE THINKING, WELL,
YOU MAY HAVE A MILD ILLNESS,
KIND OF SIMILAR TO A 24-HOUR
STOMACH FLU KIND OF THING.
BUT THESE BACTERIA HAVE IN THE
PAST BEEN DESCRIBED AS CAUSING
KIDNEY FAILURE, MISCARRIAGES IN
PREGNANT WOMEN, MEN ANYONE
SKWRAOEUTMENINGITIS ANDHAVE BEEN FATAL IN SOME
INSTANCES.
THAT'S IN ADDITION TO THE MORE
SEVERE GASTROENTERITIS THAT MOST
PEOPLE ASSOCIATE WITH THESE
PATHOGENS.
>> WHAT KIND OF ILLNESSES ARE WE
TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY?
E-COLI?
>> YEAH.
BASICALLY WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT
SEVERAL ORGANISMS.
E-COLI CERTAINLY IS ONE OF THEM.
057 IS THE ONE THAT'S EXTREMELY
DANGEROUS IN CHILDREN IN
PARTICULAR BECAUSE IT CAN LEAD
TO RENAL FAILURE AND THERE'S
BEEN MULTIPLE INSTANCES OF
CHILDREN WINDING OCCUPY UP ON DIALYSIS
AS A RESULT OF INFECTION WITH
THAT.
PROBABLY THE MOST COMMON
ORGANISM ASSOCIATED WITH RAW
MILK ASSOCIATED OUTBREAKS HAS
BEEN CAMPALOBACTER.
IT CAUSES GASTROENTERITIS.
THE SCARY PART IS IN A SMALL
PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
INFECTED, IT CAN PRODUCE A
NEUROLOGIC CONDITION, WHICH IS
AN ASCENDING PARALYSIS.
>> ADVOCATES OF RAW MILK SAY
THAT IT CONTAINS NUTRIENTS AND
ENZYMES LOST TO PASTEURIZATION
AND IS ACTUALLY HEL HEALTHIER FOR
YOU.
>> WELL, THOSE CLAIMS OF THE
HEALTH BENEFITS OF RAW MILK I'VE
NOT SEEN PUBLISHED IN ANY KIND
OF PEER-REVIEWED, SCIENTIFIC
LITERATURE.
QUITE THE CONTRARY, THERE ARE
PUBLICATIONS THAT SORT OF DEBUNK
MANY OF THOSE CLAIMS.
I'M NOT A NUTRITIONIST AND
SHOULDN'T BE THE PERSON TO
ADDRESS THAT IN PARTICULAR, BUT,
YOU KNOW, EVEN IF ONE WERE TO
CONCEDE -- AND I THINK IT IS A
BIG IF -- THAT THERE MAY BE SOME
SMALL NUTRITIONAL BENEFITS TO
CONSUMING RAW MILK, IT'S
CERTAINLY NOT WORTH THE RISK OF
THESE SEVERE ILLNESSES AND
DEATHS.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE SUBSTITUTE
AMENDMENT THAT CAME OUT OF THE
LEGISLATURE THIS WEEK?
DO YOU FEEL BETTER ABOUT THAT
WITH THOSE CAVEATS INCLUDED?
>> IT'S STILL A BAD SITUATION.
EVEN THE SUBSTITUTE BILL, FOR
MULTIPLE REASONS.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU
WANT ME TO GO INTO DETAIL WITH
THOSE OR NOT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE --
SOME OF THESE CONDITIONS THAT
ARE IN THE SUBSTITUTE BILL ARE
STILL REALLY NOT ACCEPTABLE FROM
THE STANDPOINT OF PUBLIC HEALTH
AND I THINK ARE -- YOU KNOW,
MAYBE THE MAIN CONCERN WE HAVE
IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AUTHORS
OF THIS BILL ARE INTERESTED IN
SENDING THIS FOR A LEGISLATION
COUNCIL STUDY.
THERE'S ALSO A DEPARTMENT OF AG,
TRADE AND CONSUMER PROTECTION
HAS FORMED AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE
ON THIS RAW MILK ISSUE. SO, YOU
KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A
CONSENSUS HERE THAT THIS NEEDS
MORE STUDY PRIOR TO PUTTING SOME
SORT OF RISKY PRODUCT OUT FOR
AVAILABLE FOR RETAIL SALES.
>> OKAY.
YOU KNOW, WHAT, DOCTOR.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
WITH LUCK FOR YOU, THERE WILL BE
MORE STUDY ON THIS.
DR. KAZMIERCZAK, THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.
>> WE TRAVEL NOW TO GREEN BAY.
THAT'S WHERE WE MEET CRAIG, A
FARMER WHO SELLS RAW MILK AND
HAS DONE SO FOR MORE THAN TEN
YEARS.
THANKS A LOT FOR JOINING US.
>> HELLO.
>> WELL, I WANTED TO ASK YOU,
WHAT DO YOU SAY THE STATE
OFFICIALS WHO SAY DRINKING RAW
MILK IS DANGEROUS?
>> I GUESS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE,
RAW MILK SALES ARE -- OR ACCESS
TO RAW MILK IS LEGAL IN 28 OTHER
STATES, SO IT'S NOT LIKE THIS IS
SOME LUNATIC FRINGE GROUP HERE
IN WISCONSIN THAT'S TRYING TO
CHANGE THE RULES DRAMATICALLY.
AND UP UNTIL ABOUT A YEAR AGO,
THE INTERPRETATION BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF AG HERE WAS
DIFFERENT, SO THAT WE WERE
OPERATING AND OFFERING RAW MILK
THROUGH WHAT WE CALL A FARM
SHARE.
SO -- AND WE'VE BEEN DOING --
ACTUALLY, WE'VE BEEN SELLING RAW
MILK OR OFFERING RAW MILK
THROUGH THIS FARM SHARE FOR
ABOUT FIVE YEARS.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WHAT ABOUT THAT QUESTION ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, THEY SAY IT'S
DANGEROUS.
IN FACT, WE JUST SPOKE WITH THE
STATE VETERINARIAN WHO SAYS SOME
OF THE ILLNESSES IT CAN CAUSE
ARE NOT TRIVIAL.
HE SAID IT CAN CAUSE THINGS LIKE
KIDNEY FAILURE.
>> THOSE ARE -- NO FOOD IS
GUARANTEED.
I THINK ACTUALLY IF YOU WERE TO
GO TO THE FDA TEN MOST RISKIEST
FOODS, RAW MILK DOESN'T EVEN
SHOW UP ON THERE.
SO YOU COULD POSSIBLY GET SICK
FROM ANY FOOD IF IT WASN'T
PROPERLY MAINTAINED, WASN'T
PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF.
I MEAN, THERE IS NO -- THERE ARE
ULTIMATELY NO GUARANTEES.
RAW MILK HAS A MUCH SAFER TRACK
RECORD THAN DELI MEATS, FOR
EXAMPLE.
>> AND YOU ACTUALLY ESPOUSE RAW
MILK AS MORE HEALTHFUL THAN
PASTEURIZED MILK.
>> YES, BECAUSE PASTEURIZED MILK
IS COOKED.
IT'S HEATED.
AND WHEN YOU HEAT THINGS,
ESPECIALLY ABOVE 115 DEGREES,
YOU DESTROY THE ENZYMES IN THAT
FOOD, WHICH MAKES IT MORE
DIFFICULT TO STKAOEU DIGEST.
IT REALLY CHANGES THE FOOD.
>> I'VE HEARD RAW MILK DESCRIBED
AS AN ECONOMIC ELIXIR FOR DAIRY
FARMERS IN THE STATE.
DO YOU HELP YOUR BOTTOM LINE ON
THE FARM WITH THE SALE OF THIS
RAW FILL BEING?
>> -- MILK?
>> WE DO THROUGH THE RAW MILK,
BUT ALSO THROUGH A FARM STORE
WHERE WE SELL OTHER MEATS THAT
WE RAISE ON THE FARM.
WE DO PASTURED POULTRY, TURKEYS,
JERSEY BEEF.
SO FOR US RAW MILK IS THE
TRAFFIC DRIVER, THOUGH, BECAUSE
EVERY 10 TO 14 DAYS PEOPLE HAVE
TO COME BACK FOR MILK.
SO THE STORE FOR US HAS BECOME
INTEGRAL TO OUR FARM AND VERY
IMPORTANT ECONOMICALLY.
BUT THE RAW MILK IS A KEY PART
OF THAT.
WITHOUT RAW MILK SALES, PEOPLE
WOULD NOT DRIVE FROM GREEN BAY,
APPLETON.
THEY WOULD TRY TO FIND A MORE
LOCAL SOURCE.
BUT RAW MILK IS WORTH IT FOR
THEM TO MAKE THAT TRIP.
AND WHEN THEY'RE THERE, THEN
THEY BUY OTHER THINGS.
>> HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU SELL
IT TO?
>> OVER A MONTH, WE'LL PROBABLY
HAVE 300 FAMILIES THAT COME TO
THE STORE.
NOT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE GET RAW
MILK, BUT A LARGE PERCENTAGE DO.
>> SO ARE YOU PRETTY MUCH IN
VIOLATION OF STATE LAW?
>> UP UNTIL A YEAR AGO, WE WERE
OPERATING UNDER A FARM SHARE,
WHERE WE WOULD SELL INTEREST IN
OUR MILK LICENSE TO PEOPLE AND
THROUGH THE MILK LICENSE THEY
WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO RAW MILK.
THAT WAS -- THEY WERE AWARE OF
THAT.
IN FACT, THEY WERE PART OF THE
APPROVAL PROCESS, BECAUSE IN
ORDER TO SELL SHARES, WE HAD TO
GET AN EXEMPTION FROM THE
DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL
INSTITUTIONS, BECAUSE IF YOU
SELL MORE THAN 25 SHARES, NOW
YOU'RE IN VIOLATION -- POTENTIAL
VIOLATION OF SECURITIES LAWS.
IF YOU DON'T FILL OUT A WHOLE
BUNCH MORE PAPERWORK AND DO A
LOT OF ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION.
SO THIS EXEMPTION ALLOWED US TO
NOT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THOSE
SECURITIES REQUIREMENTS AND THAT
HAD TO COME FROM THIS
DEPARTMENT.
THE DEPARTMENT OF AG ALSO GOT TO
LOOK AT THOSE APPLICATIONS FOR
EXEMPTIONS AND THEY WERE WELL
AWARE OF WHO WAS GETTING THEM
AND WHY THEY WERE GETTING THEM.
AND THIS ACTUALLY GOES BACK TO A
COURT CASE AND A DECISION BY AN
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE THAT
WAS WRITTEN IN -- THE DECISION
OCCURRED IN 2002 AND THE
DECISION RELYING ON WAS IN 2004,
AND UP UNTIL A NEW FOOD SAFETY
ADMINISTRATOR WAS HIRED ABOUT 15
MONTHS AGO, THERE WERE SEVERAL
FARMS THAT WERE OPERATING UNDER
THIS CONCEPT.
>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T MEAN TO CUT
YOU OFF, BUT THAT DOES SOUND
PRETTY COMPLICATED.
JUST VERY QUICKLY BECAUSE WE'RE
NEARLY OUT OF TIME, ARE YOU IN
FAVOR OF THIS SUBSTITUTE
AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED
THROUGH THE COMMITTEE IN THE
LEGISLATURE THIS WEEK?
>> YES.
I HAVE ONE CONCERN IN THAT
THERE'S A RAW MILK PERMIT
REQUIRED, AND I'M CONCERNED
ABOUT WHAT REQUIREMENTS THE
DEPARTMENT OF AG COULD PUT ON IN
ADDITION TO WHAT'S IN THE BILL
AS FAR AS YOUR RAOEURPBLTS TO
GET THAT PERMIT.
>> THROUGH PERMITTING.
ALL RIGHT.
>> OTHERWISE THE BILL IS
ADEQUATE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WAYNE CRAIG, THANKS A LOT FOR
JOINING US FROM GREEN BAY.
>> YOU BET.
>> NOW FROM AGRICULTURE TO THE
ECONOMY WITH A TOUCH OF SPORTS
THROWN IN.
WE ALL HEAR A LOT OF BAD
ECONOMIC NEWS.
WELL ACCIDENT TONIGHT, TONIGHT SOME GOOD NEWS AND
A TRIP TO THE NCAA TOURNAMENT.
A SMALL COMPANY IN MILWAUKEE IS
TAKING CENTER STAGE AT THE
COLLEGE TOURNAMENTS.
IT MAKES THE FLOORS, THE
HARDWOOD.
FIRST ROUND TEAMS TOOK TO COURT
FOR PRACTICE SESSIONS IN THE
HOURS BEFORE THEIR BIG GAMES.
AND WHILE MOST LOOKING ON HAVE
THEIR GAZE SET AT ABOUT TEN FEET
UP, THERE'S ONE GUY WHO'S
FOCUSED ON THE FLOOR.
>> IT'S PRETTY SURREAL.
>> JASON HIGHMAN TAKES TAKES
PARTICULAR PRIDE IN THIS
CANADIAN MAPLE.
HE MADE IT.
>> JUST TO BE A PART OF IT IS
PRETTY AMAZING.
>> HIS MAUL HIS SMALL COMPANY ON
MILWAUKEE'S SOUTH SIDE IS MAKING
A MARK IN THIS FLOOR BUSINESS.
>> KIND OF SHOWCASING NOT ONLY
YOUR OWN COMPANY, BUT ALSO
MILWAUKEE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL.
>> THE PAINT BRUSHES ARE STILL
WETWET IN THE COMPANY'S WAREHOUSE
WHERE THE COURTS ARE ASSEMBLED.
JASON DOES THE GRAPHIC PAINT
WORK HIMSELF, MAKING SURE IT'S
PRECISION PERFECTED.
>> IT'S EXCITING, BUT ALSO
NERVOUS AT THE SAME TIME.
YOU KNOW, UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY GET
TO SEE THE FLOOR ON T.V.
>> JASON THOMAS FLOORING EMPLOYS
JUST SIX PEOPLE FULLTIME.
IT COMPETES WITH THREE OTHER
COURT MANUFACTURERS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
AND IN JUST ITS SECOND YEAR
MAKING THE REGULATION NCAA
TOURNAMENT FLOORS APPEARS TO BE
A BRACKET BUSTER.
>> EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THAT IS
OVER THERE IN THE CORNER.
>> SURE.
THAT'S THE ACTUAL GAME FLOOR FOR
THE FINAL FOUR, THE MEN'S FINAL
FOUR IN INDIANAPOLIS.
IT'S JUST WAITING TO BE SHIPPED.
I BELIEVE IT SHIPS OUT MONDAY
MORNING.
>> THE MILWAUKEE MANUFACTURER
WAS SELECTED BY THE NCAA TO MAKE
THE CHAMPIONSHIP FLOOR THAT'S
HEADED TO INDIANAPOLIS.
IT'S PRETTY MUCH A REPLICA OF
THE FINAL FOUR PRACTICE FLOOR
JUST NOW BEING PULLED UP FOR
SHIPPING.
THE COMPANY MADE FIVE OF THE
TOURNAMENT COURTS, INCLUDING THE
ONE IN THE BRADLEY CENTER, AND
THOSE IN SYRACUSE AND PWRUF LOW.
PWRUF --
BUFFALO.
BUT IT'S THAT FINAL FLOOR THAT
REALLY PUTS THIS MILWAUKEE
COMPANY ON THE MAP.
>> IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S SO MUCH
PRESSURE.
THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST
TELEVISED SPORTING EVENTS AND
YOU'RE PROVIDING REALLY THE
HEART AND SOUL OF THE GAME.
IF THERE'S NO FLOOR, THERE'S NO
GAME.
>> AND SO WHALE WHILE MARCH MADNESS
UNFOLDS, TAKE A MINUTE TO CHECK
OUT THE FLOORS.
YOU WON'T BE THE ONLY ONE WITH
YOUR GAZE CAST DOWNWARDS.
JAY CONJASON AND CREW WILL BE RIGHT
THERE WITH YOU, MAKING SURE THE
FLOORING REFLECTS THE PRIDE OF
CRAFTSMANSHIP THAT GOT THE
MILWAUKEE FLOORING COMPANY
INVITED TO THE BIG GAME.
THE COURTS COST ABOUT $100,000.
WE'RE TOLD IT'S TRADITION FOR
THE WINNING TEAM IN THE NCAA
CHAMPIONSHIP TO BUY THE FLOOR TO
INSTALL AT THEIR COLLEGE.
THAT'S ALL FOR TONIGHT'S
PROGRAM.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
>> PRESENTATION OF "HERE & NOW"
IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE
ANIMAL DENTAL CENTER OF
MILWAUKEE AND OSHKOSH, A
VETERINARY TEAM WORKING WITH PET
OWNERS AND FAMILY VETERINARIANS
THROUGHOUT WISCONSIN, PROVIDING
CARE FOR ORAL DISEASE AND DENTAL
PROBLEMS OF SMALL COMPANION
ANIMALS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR "HERE &
NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE LE
PHILLIPS FAMILY FOUNDATION.