? ?
? BLESS MY SOUL ?
? SOMETHING'S WRONG WITH ME ?
? I'M COOKING LIKE A MAN ?
? ON A KILLING SPREE ?
? MY MOM SAYS I'M ACTING ?
? WEIRD LIKE A THUG ?
? I'M IN LOVE ?
? 'CAUSE SHE'S ALL COOKED UP ?
? UH-HUH-HUH ?
? YEAH ?
>> Welcome to Director's Cut.
I'm Charles Monroe-Kane.
That was a clip from "Ed Gein,
The Musical."
Yes, a musical about Ed Gein,
the serial killer.
We're joined today by the film's
writer and lead actor, Dan
Davies, and the film's director
Steve Russell.
Guys, thanks for joining us
today.
>> Well, thank you, Chuck.
>> So, the most obvious
question, I'm going to ask both
of you this.
First, to the director.
Why in the world would you want
to make a musical about Ed Gein?
>> Ed Gein's a notorious
Wisconsin figure.
There's been more movies made
about him than anyone else in
Wisconsin history.
And we needed to do a different
take on it.
>> So there comes the musical.
Definitely a different take.
You, why do you want to be, not
only part of it, you're
obviously, you're Ed Gein as
well.
Why did you want to do that?
>> I'm from Waupaca, which is
about 20 minutes from
Plainfield.
Steve's actually from Montello,
which is about half an hour as
the crow flies to Plainfield.
We grew up not only with the
stories, but from a logistic
point of view, we were close to
it.
And my grandfather actually knew
the arresting sheriff very well.
They were best friends.
And my grandmother's good friend
was Bernice Worden, who he
murdered just before he got
arrested.
So for me, not only was it
locally, I was kind of from that
area, but familial.
It's my family, was affected by
him.
And a buddy of mine came back
from New York about 15 years ago
and he wanted to do an actual
documentary on Ed Gein, and I
said, I looked at him and said,
"What about 'Ed Gein,'
a musical about him?"
And he looked at me
and he was disgusted.
And he walked away.
And I thought, we're on to
something.
>> We're on to something.
Real quick, just because I want
to make sure everybody knows who
he is, just give us a little
short biography.
Who was Ed Gein, in case people
don't remember?
>> Ed Gein was arrested in 1957
for his second murder, but in
the ten years prior to that, he
dug up between 40 and 80 bodies
and made furniture, lampshades,
various home implements out of
the bodies.
>> And it was 1957.
Now, I want to see another clip
from the film, and I want to
warn our viewers here before we
get started that this is a
pretty graphic and violent clip.
But I want you to set it up for
us.
This is kind of the woman in the
barn, waking up to the radio.
Why don't you set up that clip
for us before we see it.
>> It's Ed and it's Ed, right
after the murder of Bernice
Worden, and he's got another
body on the table that he'd
exhumed, a dead body, and now
he's going to do his horrible,
wicked, nefarious things to this
body.
So he's kind of got them backed
up like a deli, basically.
So that's kind of, I guess, the
best way to describe it and set
it up.
>> There you go.
Here is a clip from "Ed Gein,
The Musical."
( radio announcer )
>> And that was
"It's a Lonely Reel," by
the original Butcher Shop Boys,
Eddie and the "Guy-ns."
Or, that should be "Geins."
WVDY would like to take a
moment to thank our sponsors.
Olsons Petroleum,
where the choice is yours.
The Wild Rose Fish Hatchery.
"If you've found a good hole
to put your worm in,
we've been there first."
And...
>> Hi, I'm Bernice Johnston
for Johnston's Hardware.
This week, we're cutting prices
on all hunting supplies.
We're slaughtering the
competition.
If you're hunting for a good
value, then keep your sight set
on Johnston's.
Thanksgiving is right
around the corner.
Gobble, gobble, gobble.
We're carving up good values
with our sale on cleavers,
buck knives,
Bowie knives,
filet knives,
and meat grinders.
>> Shut up,
you whore of Babylon.
( growls )
>> So swing on down
to Johnston's Hardware
where our prices will have you -
( crunches )
- hooked.
>> There you go.
You don't see that every day.
That's pretty intense and pretty
violent.
It's right at the start of the
film, about seven minutes into
the film.
You're showing this at film
festivals.
What are audiences saying when
they see this movie?
>> You know, what we tried to
do, Steve and I had
conversations about this.
We didn't want to make it so
that it was overtly graphically
violent, but what we did want to
do was also hint at the fact
that he was a very violent
person.
So even though there are some
unsettling things in the film,
it's not very graphic, it's not
like "cartoon" violence like you
see in a lot of films.
But we wanted to set the stage,
and I think in that first seven
minutes, we wanted to show, he
was a murderer, guys.
He was a necrophiliac.
He was a cannibal.
He exhumed bodies and did weird
things to them.
We wanted to get that across
right from the get-go.
We didn't want to glorify him,
nor his actions, but we wanted
to show people, Ed Gein was a
crazy son of a gun.
>> Now, he's from Plainfield.
You guys said you're both from
near there.
He's from Plainfield, Wisconsin.
A lot of times when I have a
film on the show, it's a show
about independent filmmaking in
Wisconsin, people show the film
in their hometowns.
They show the film where the
film was made.
Did you show the film in
Plainfield, Wisconsin?
>> We haven't, we can't go
anywhere near Plainfield.
They're still very sore about
the whole thing.
It's a very small town.
>> "Sore," that's an interesting
way to put it.
( all laugh )
But, can you respect that?
Do you understand where they're
coming from?
>> Yeah, but, you know,
time heals all wounds.
It's been 53 years, and also,
too, obviously the town
shouldn't embrace Ed Gein,
have, like, "Ed Gein Days."
But, boy, your town
is known for that.
And unless you have an astronaut
or president, or major league
baseball player that comes from
Plainfield to usurp what Ed did,
it's real difficult to get away
from that.
Now, obviously, we can't go
anywhere, actually, near Washara
County.
When we drove through a couple
weeks ago to one of our
showings, we were kind of
ducking, actually, all the way
through.
But people are still real mad
about it.
>> You've had death threats.
People are really upset by this
film.
>> Yeah, we were lucky enough to
get a nice Associated Press
article and from that spawned
some national news coverage via
Fox News and then over 1,000
articles worldwide.
And we got death threats,
actually, and threats of
mutilation from all 50 states,
from as far as London, England
and Hong Kong.
And some of them were directed
towards Steve, and we actually
kept most of them because we
thought they were kind of
hilarious.
I think the best one, if you
would like for me to do this,
the best one came from what we
kind of figured was a southern
person, don't ask me why we
figured that.
So, I usually tell the audience
before the film, and I affect a
real bad southern accent, so if
you don't mind, Charles, I'd
like to do it.
And this is almost word for
word, and this is the best
threat of mutilation that we
ever had.
( in a southern accent )
This is directed
towards the director
of "Ed Gein, The Musical."
How dare you do a movie
about this necrophiliac,
cannibalistic son of a biscuit!
You know
what I'd like to do to you?
I'd like to cut your arms off
and cut your legs off,
take a big old hook,
and then I'd like to hook
your lifeless, armless,
legless body and drag you
behind my 4x4 through the mud.
And then,
I'd like to hose you off.
( regular voice ) Now, hopefully
he meant, with a garden hose.
( southern accent )
And then I'd like to take
your clean, lifeless, armless,
legless body
and feed it to my dogs.
( regular voice )
And then he signs it this.
( southern accent )
Have a nice day, and God bless!
>> Wow.
>> So, yeah, and that was the
most memorable one that we got.
And we kept it and when we're
feeling down we read it.
It makes us feel wonderful.
>> Well, we want to show another
clip from the film, and again I
want to warn our viewers out
there, you might want to change,
this is a pretty graphic clip.
I wonder if you could set this
one up.
One of the clips where he's, I
guess, maybe it doesn't need a
set up.
Just one of those clips where
he's engaging in necrophilia,
which is certainly a part of
what Ed Gein was about.
So again, a warning to the
viewers, and let's roll that
clip.
>> Would you mind telling me why
we found human body parts all
over your house?
>> Those are my lady friends.
>> Lady friends?!
Who are they?
Where do they come from?
>> Girls from all over the
county were digging me like I
was digging them, too.
>> Geez, Ed, what the hell is
wrong with you?
( breathing heavily )
>> Hey, Lisa Marie.
How are you?
-- you're okay.
I'm going to take you back to my
place, okay?
We're gonna have a great time,
okay?
? WON'T YOU LOVE ME ?
? WON'T YOU NEED ME ?
? WON'T YOU DIG ME ?
? FOR I WILL DIG YOU TOO ?
? WON'T YOU HUG ME ?
? WON'T YOU KISS ME ?
? I KNOW ?
? YOU'LL WANT ME TOO ?
? I AM DIGGING ?
? DIG, DIG, DIGGING ?
? TO FIND MY DREAM ?
? LOVE TRUE ?
>> There are just some songs you
do not want to get stuck in your
head all day.
I hope that one does not get
stuck in my head all day.
Speaking of music.
So, it's a musical.
These are some standards.
You have Elvis songs, and
"A Few of My Favorite Things."
Where's all the music come
from?
Are you guys both musicians?
>> No.
>> Actually, when we initially
had the idea, we went out and
shot a very short trailer, just
to see if we could get any
interest in it.
And after we got some interest
from Hollywood and they told us,
go ahead and make a full feature
length, and we'll see what we
can do, we were like, "Okay,
where are we going to get the
music?"
>> Making a musical.
>> And we don't have
any type of -
I mean, I sang a little bit
in high school.
>> And I played the trombone.
>> Till 8th grade or something.
So we don't really have musical
background.
But it was funny because we were
talking about it, and then this
dude came into our office.
We thought he was lost.
He was kind of a hippie,
kind of a dude.
And he said, "What are you guys
doing?"
I said, "We're doing
this musical."
He goes, "That's kind of weird.
I just opened up a sound
recording studio two blocks
from your place."
And I said, "We're doing
'Ed Gein, The Musical.'"
And he goes, "What?"
He started laughing.
And I said, "We can't pay you
anything."
He goes, "I don't care,
I'll do whatever you need."
And we find out, his name
is Will Kaiser, and we find out
that he's a professional
musician, worked in Nashville
for years, did Nashville things,
and did a beautiful job.
>> Yeah, the music's good.
>> Thank you.
Half the songs are parodies and
half of them are originals, but
I wrote the lyrics for them and
I've never done that before.
And when I gave it to him, he
looked at the lyrics and said,
"You've never written a song
before, have you?"
And I said no.
But then I said, "I think this
is how I want the song to go."
So I'd sing a couple of bars
and stuff and he'd stop me and
say, "I got it, I got it."
And then he'd just go with it.
>> Oh, cool.
>> Yeah, and there were some
talented musicians, too, that
came aboard.
>> Speaking of that, you were
talking about doing the lyrics.
You play Ed Gein.
Now, that's a pretty intense
role and there are moments,
which are good for acting, but I
wanted to ask you about, where
you seemed to really get into
it.
It's really intense.
What was it like getting your
game face on to basically
practice necrophilia and killing
someone and dismembering
someone?
It must have been a really odd
experience to be Ed Gein.
>> You know what I did, though,
as preparation for it.
What Steve and I wanted to get
across was, he just wasn't born
a monster.
That his dad beat him severely
almost on a daily basis and his
mom, sadly, molested him.
I thought about that horrible,
hopeless sadness that comes with
that type of abuse.
And the moment I did that,
everything then came to
fruition.
>> There you go.
>> And that was so easy, not
because of personal experiences,
my parents treated me like gold,
but once you get into that
sadness and that despicable
situation he was in, you
literally become Ed.
And it's sad, but you do.
And so I hope people have
sympathy, not for him, but maybe
are empathetic to people that
have been through that
situation.
>> 'Cause there could be an end
result.
>> Yeah, yeah.
And it was almost fairly easy to
feel that.
But it was almost like an
overwhelming, palatable sadness
that I had when I played him.
Literally a sadness.
>> So that's what you felt.
You didn't feel disgust, you
didn't have nightmares.
You just felt depressed 'cause
the guy had a horrible life.
>> Yeah, just a horrible,
horrible, horrible life.
And on top of it, he was scarred
because of his dad, he had a
slight speech impediment.
There were a lot of things
physically wrong with him, too,
to top it all off.
So he wasn't given a silver
spoon when he was born.
>> I want to show another clip.
Before we do, again, I want to
warn our viewers that it's very
graphic.
There's a lot of myth
surrounding Ed Gein as well.
And I'm curious, inside of your
film, things like the chili
cook-off, which goes into the
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which
he's related to.
How real is all this?
Did he really use human meat to
do a chili cook-off and
everybody in the family and the
town ate it?
How accurate is your film?
Or did you not worry about, more
worried about the myth that kids
were talking about on the
playground?
>> We actually tried to stay
fairly accurate with a lot of
it.
As far as winning the chili
cook-off, that we took a little
liberty with.
But he was known to take meat to
all of his neighbors and he said
after he was arrested that he
never actually shot a deer, but
he always had venison that he
was handing out.
>> He said, "This is my venison
sausage or this is my venison
chili," and then they asked him
later, they said, "Well, where's
your deer?
Did you go hunting this year?"
And he's like,
"I don't like hunting,
I've never been hunting."
So you kind of make the
inference there, sadly.
But we did try to make it as
historically accurate as
possible.
Now, one of the movies was
called "Ed Gein, Dancing to the
Light of the Moon."
And when he was interviewed
by, I think Robert Elsworth, a
psychologist, social worker,
they asked him, "What did you do
with the bodies?"
And he said, "In the light of
the moon, I would dance
with them."
So you know, in order to
dance, you have to have a
rhythm, you have to have a beat.
And all we did was just put the
lyrics behind that rhythm and
beat.
>> That's a great set-up for our
next clip.
Again, I want to warn our
listeners.
And this is another clip from
"Ed Gein, The Musical."
? ?
>> Hello, Lisa Marie.
>> Hello, Edward Gein.
? MY DREAM ?
? MY WALKING, TALKING ?
? LIVING DREAM ?
? YOU ARE ?
? MY DANCING, PRANCING ?
? ROMANCING DREAM ?
? OH MY, ED ?
? YOU MUST BE DAFT ?
? IN THE HEAD ?
? FOR I AM ?
? MOST CERTAINLY DEAD ?
? I KNOW IT'S TRICKY ?
? BUT I AIN'T PICKY ?
? I'LL LOVE YOU ?
? EVEN IF YOU'RE STICKY ?
? OR DOWNRIGHT ICKY ?
? MY ED ?
? MY SWEET TALKING ED ?
? IF I AGREE TO THIS ?
? WHAT WILL BECOME OF ME ?
? WELL, FIRST ?
? I'M GOING ?
? TO MAKE YOU MOVE ?
? AND THEN I WILL ?
? MAKE YOU GROOVE ?
? AND THEN I WILL MAKE ?
? SWEET LOVE TO YOU ?
( speaking )
And then, I'm gonna chop your
head off, chop your arms off,
chop your hands off, chop your
legs off, and then I'll probably
skin you like a raccoon and cut
you like a deer.
And then, I'm gonna make
interesting things from you.
>> What types of things?
>> Well, why don't you come with
me, and we could both find out.
? ?
? LAMPSHADES ON LAMPPOSTS ?
? AND SKIN CHAIRS ?
? FOR SITTIN' ?
? BRIGHT HUMAN SKULL BOWLS ?
? AND WARM FLESH-LINED MITTENS ?
? BROWN PAPER PACKAGES ?
? WITH FINGERS AND RINGS ?
? THESE ARE A FEW ?
? OF MY DEMENTED THINGS ?
>> That's definitely not the
song I want to get stuck in my
head.
As we were talking about, Ed
Gein the person has inspired a
number of films.
"Hotel Hell,"
"Texas Chainsaw Massacre"
on the more gratuitous side.
And of course, "Silence of the
Lambs" on the more artistic
side.
How is your film different than
the dozens of films that the Ed
Gein story has inspired?
>> Obviously the music that we
involve.
Also, we, I think, are more
accurate than a lot of them that
claim to be based on him, even
the ones that are named "Ed
Gein, Butcher of Plainfield,"
and "Dancing in the Light of the
Moon."
They show mountains in the
background and the people have
southern accents, which...
>> And also, too, we had a
psychologist who actually worked
at Mendota in Madison.
He was just starting out the
last couple years that Ed was
there, and he came up to us and
said that he was kind of an
aficionado of serial killers.
He said, "I obviously don't want
to be one, I'm a psychologist."
But he said our film, though,
was more historically accurate
than anything other than the A&E
biography on Ed Gein.
Which, we shook his hand, and
that was just a nice compliment.
But we tried to keep it, even
the words that he sang, there's
about 10 or 12 lines that are
actually from the transcripts.
Actually from what Robert
Elsworth and the books that were
written about him, exactly
almost word for word what he
said.
>> Were you ever worried that
you were going to step over the
line?
Were you over worried that this
was simply just going to be
salacious and gratuitous?
Did you even care?
You don't have to care.
>> We did care.
We didn't want to go over the
top.
Actually, the scene that we saw
earlier is about the most
violent in it.
The rest of it's kind of
cartoonish.
Not overly so, but yeah, we
tried to keep it...
>> Yeah, where we changed the
names as well.
We made sure the names were all
different.
We didn't make it hyper-violent.
We kind of paid a modicum of
respect to the people that he
had exhumed and did weird things
to.
>> How do you do that?
Just to be real here for a
second.
You have a woman, he's dancing
with a dead woman.
Let's go with someone he
actually murders.
He shoots someone in the back of
the head, takes them home, skins
them.
So where's the respect go?
And then you sing a song about
it?
I'm just asking, because you
were saying.
How is that respectful?
>> I think because of the fact
that it wasn't violence for
violence's sake, number one.
It wasn't graphically violent.
Although we did, I think, we
pushed the envelope, let's say
that.
We did push the envelope.
And we're not coming across
being like clean, rated-G,
Disney film by any stretch of
the imagination.
But what we didn't want to do
was, number one, use the
original names.
Number two, show it
gratuitously.
We didn't want it to be anything
sexual other than just hinted
at.
So we tried to keep it
on those levels.
But it's hard to make a movie
about a cannibalistic
necrophiliac without making
those intimations.
>> Right.
Once you made the choice to make
"Ed Gein, The Musical," certain
things have to happen.
>> You bet, yeah.
>> I want to show our clip, and
again I want to warn our viewers
of the violent nature of the
clip.
And this one, you actually set
it up earlier, what I call the
"Leave it to Beaver" clip.
And this is actually showing Ed
Gein where you're trying to show
a little empathy and show a
little bit of his background,
very natural-born killer-esque.
We're going to play that clip
and then we'll talk a little bit
more about it.
So let's see another clip from
"Ed Gein, The Musical."
>> Those are some pretty
violent, some pretty graphic
comic books you've got there.
>> These are my escape.
>> You escape from your violent
and sick upbringing by
retreating into violent and sick
comic books?
>> My upbringing wasn't that bad
at all.
As a matter of fact, it was
really good.
? ?
>> Narrator: "Leave It To
The Father of Edward,"
starring Ed Gein.
? ?
Augusta Gein.
? ?
And George Gein
as "The Father."
? ?
Tonight's episode,
"Don't Tell Mommy."
>> Golly gee, Father.
I just finished up with my paper
route and I've got a huge
hankering for some refreshment.
>> Well, that's swell, Eddie.
If it's all right with your
mother, then why the knickers
not?
>> Ha ha, Dad, you're peachy
keen.
>> Well, thanks, Eddie.
Hey, have I told you a secret
lately?
>> As a matter of fact, Dad, you
haven't.
>> Well, you think you can keep
this close to the vest?
Under your hat?
And generally on the low
profile?
>> Gosh, golly gee,
jerwillickers, Pop.
I think you know me.
I'm made in the shade when it
comes to that.
I won't tell a soul.
'Cause I know if I do, I'd be
cruising for a bruising.
>> Oh ho ho, funny you should
mention the word bruising, son.
Because we'd like to keep your
daily beatings, emotional
harangues, and weekly
molestations just between you,
me, and your mother.
Okay, Skipper?
( exaggerated laughter )
What a great son you are.
( Ed laughs )
>> See?
Perfectly normal.
>> A clip from "Ed Gein,
The Musical."
Empathy for a serial killer.
That's what you're showing
there.
And I'm curious.
We talked a little bit about
empathy for victims.
You're from that area.
Have you run into,
"My grandmother was killed
by Ed Gein"?
Have you run into that?
>> Ed Gein's such a notorious
figure in Wisconsin history,
everyone has an Ed Gein story.
Some of them are true, some of
them aren't.
But we did have, when we were in
Weyauwega, showing at the opera
house, we ran into some people
that were from Plainfield who
said their grandmother had been
dug up and that they knew that
for a fact.
There are two people that are
known for a fact who had been
dug up and they knew the correct
person.
We offered them free tickets to
the show, "Come on down, it's
on us, we can get you popcorn,
soda, whatever you want.
And watch the film and then let
us know what you think."
And after they watched it they
were like, "You really did
a good job with it."
>> They thanked us, they came
up to us and shook our hands
and said, "Thank you."
And we were blown away.
They said there were some things
that they didn't agree with, but
they felt the sympathy and the
empathy for the victims as well
as Ed.
They were thankful that we did
it.
And as a matter of fact, one of
the older gals gave me a hug.
>> Were you expecting that?
>> No, no.
>> I can't imagine you were
expecting a hug.
>> No, no.
But it was wonderful.
It really made us feel like we
were kind of doing the right
thing with it and it was nice.
>> You put a lot of effort into
this, and I asked why you did it
because of the content.
But what was the budget for
this?
How much did it cost you to make
this?
>> We actually had about $9,000
that we filmed it with and that
went almost exclusively to pizza
and beer for our cast and crew.
We weren't able to pay anybody.
>> In Wisconsin, you can get
people to work hard, that are
harder workers, smarter people,
and pay them in pizza and beer
and they'll do a damn good job.
>> There you go.
( unintelligible )
( all laugh )
I'm curious.
And for viewers of this film,
for viewers of the clips, for
people who see it on public
television, what do you hope
they get from this?
What are you hoping that you've
given to society by making this
movie?
>> That serial killers and
people who do nefarious acts
aren't born that way, exactly.
There's circumstances behind it
that end up making them that
way.
And Ed Gein was kind of a
perfect storm of abuse and
molestation and isolation.
And he ended up being in a
complete fantasy world.
>> And for you, as an actor,
being a part of this, and
obviously helping write the
musical, you put a lot of time
and effort into making a musical
about a serial killer.
What do you hope people get out
of it?
>> You know, Steve said it
almost perfectly and I agree
with that.
You know, we don't want to feel
sorry for people that - because
we're always given choices, and
there are a lot of songs in the
film about giving choices.
God gives us three choices.
You can do the bad thing, you
can do a good thing, or you
shouldn't do anything at all.
And he always chose specifically
to do the horrible thing.
I wanted to get that across,
too.
That there were people that were
molested and hurt as a youngster
and they're very upstanding,
warm, great citizens and great
people.
That's kind of what we wanted to
get across, too.
But also, entertainment.
Films should entertain first and
foremost.
And we wanted it to be
entertaining, we wanted the dark
Alice humor, we wanted people to
walk away with a good song in
their head, but also, too, to
kind of feel sorry for people
who are in that situation a
little bit.
So I think we hit the nail on
the head with all three of them,
at least I hope, anyway, and our
crowd reaction has been that
way.
>> It has been a bizarre
experience for me.
Watching that was a really
interesting experience, to be
home with the popcorn.
So, thank you very much for
joining us.
It was a very interesting
interview, I appreciate it.
And we thank all of you very
much for watching
Director's Cut.
For more information
on "Ed Gein, The Musical,"
please go to
wpt.org/directorscut.
And while you're there, send us
an email, because we'd love to
hear from you.
I'm your host, Charles
Monroe-Kane, and for everyone
here at Director's Cut, thank
you very much for joining us
today.
Check the gate.
? ?
>> What were you doing at the
hardware store this morning?
? SOMEBODY FRAMED ME ?
>> What?
? SOMEBODY FRAMED ME ?
>> Shut up and quit singing.
>> It's a musical...