>> This is actually the filets
we use now
for producing lutefisk.
We'll take that dried fish,
and put in a tank of fresh water
for one or two days,
and it just soaks,
getting a little softer.
We'll then add the caustic soda,
which is basically
the same thing as lye
or sodium hydroxide.
That chemical is really
what gets things going,
because it helps open up
the fish's pores
so it'll soak more water in.
It stays in the chemicals
for about two or three days
and it goes through
a series of freshwater baths,
and you have to go
through these things by hand,
and grab the filets.
You have to be able to feel
with your thumb and your fingers
when the fish is ready.
There also has to be
a certain amount of bend
in the fish.
>> Hi, and welcome
to Director's Cut .
I'm your host,
Charles Monroe-Kane.
At Director's Cut,
we're dedicated to bringing you
the best in independent films
and filmmakers.
Today, Lutefisk.
For you Norwegians out there,
and you know who you are,
you know exactly
what I'm talking about.
But for those of you who aren't,
lutefisk is that yummy fish
you eat on Christmas.
Steeped in tradition and
folklore, as well as lye and
butter, lutefisk is a perfect
subject for a documentary.
And Eric Nelson did just that.
Welcome to Director's Cut.
>> Thank you very much.
>> So, you do this film.
You have animation.
You have folklore.
You have stories.
You have all this stuff.
But does lutefisk taste good?
It looks nasty.
>> Are you asking me, or are you
asking everybody else?
>> I'm asking you.
Did you like it?
>> I think it's okay.
Now, I'm probably going to get
an awful lot of grief for
admitting that after making
this.
But I grew up around it, so it's
much more of the tradition of it
is more what I'm interested in.
I think that the taste is okay.
For those who really don't know,
it's like a white fish that's in
a lot of butter.
So it ends up tasting
like a poor man's lobster.
>> Oh, poor man's lobster.
>> Which isn't all that bad if
you get past the smell, which is
what everybody has
a very difficult time with.
>> Do you remember?
Now, you're Norwegian.
>> Oh, yes.
Do you remember the first time
you had it?
>> I was pretty young, I think.
I grew up around it.
So all of my relatives ate it
for the holidays.
Christmas, Thanksgiving,
New Years.
>> Is that how often you eat it
now, still?
>> Nope, I eat it about zero
now.
When I grew up with my folks,
we always had it.
And when my grandparents were
alive, we always had it.
But I never really learned to
make it on my own.
And I don't have an awful lot of
love of actually eating it,
other than for all the company
that it brings and that goes
along with it.
So I don't really make it on my
own.
But if I'm at my aunt's or my
uncle's houses, then I'll
probably have a little bit.
>> At Christmas time.
>> Exactly.
But I will not go out of my way
for it.
>> Well, I want to see another
clip from this film.
Will you set this one up for us?
This is Chad Wright.
Can you tell us a little bit
about Chad?
>> Chad was a very interesting
young man.
I don't know exactly his age,
probably early 20s.
But his grandfather is the head
cook at the Sons of Norway
in Madison, Wisconsin.
And so, Chad has been working at
these annual lutefisk dinners,
fund-raisers that the Sons of
Norway have, since he's been ten
years old, I believe.
>> Wow.
>> And he's been working
as a fishmonger.
He takes these little pieces of
lutefisk, rehydrates them,
re-soaks them, washes them out,
and he takes them up to his
granddad.
So he's been doing this for
years.
And he actually brought along a
friend to help him with that.
You'll see that right in this
clip.
>> Let's see a clip from Chad.
>> I'm Chad Wright, C-h-d...
( laughter )
Shoot!
Can you just hold up a card
with my name on it?
>> There you go.
>> Chad Wright.
>> Hello.
>> It comes in a box like that.
And then they come in a bag
and they're about that long.
Cut them in three parts,
and then you put them
in the barrels over there.
Then they sit for three nights,
with the water and salt
and you change out the water
and whatnot.
Once a day you change the water.
>> And that's basically
about it.
When we get ready to have fish,
they put in buckets
and carry it up to us.
>> Yummy.
A clip from
"Fishin' for Tradition."
So tell me about Madison,
Minnesota, the lutefisk capital
of the world.
>> Madison, Minnesota.
I found out about the town while
doing a little bit of research
for this.
The happen to claim their town
as being the lutefisk capital of
the world.
>> And no one else claimed it,
so I guess you get it.
>> That's exactly what the head
of the Chamber of Commerce
indicated to me.
He had originally stated that
the town had eaten more
lutefisk, per capita, than
anyplace else, according to
their distributor.
And as you just indicated,
nobody else made the claim, so
they did.
And they really pushed that
hard, as being the main revenue
stream for all the tourism in
the area.
They have a huge statue of a cod
fish that they've affectionately
named Lou T. Fisk.
And that iconography is
everywhere throughout
that whole town.
>> I just want to make sure
I get the process right.
We saw some in the clip.
Some guy, if I get this right,
in Norway, catches a cod, okay.
It's a white fish.
And then that cod is dried.
>> Yeah.
>> Outdoors?
So tell me what happens.
>> Usually, the old standard way
of making lutefisk would be that
a fisherman would go out on a
boat.
He or she--
>> The Norwegian fisherman,
who knows, why not?
>> They would drop a long line,
which is just a big, long line
with small hooks on it,
all baited.
And they'd let that go down
to the deep water, where a lot
of these cod fish are.
Pull them up, all by hand.
They would then slice off the
heads.
They'd take out the guts.
>> All right.
>> They would then head in to
shore, and tie the tails of two
of these cod fish together.
They'd heave them over a pole.
They'd have racks and racks of
these fish just heaved over.
>> Yeah, I've seen pictures of
hundreds and hundreds of them.
>> Right.
And so, they'd be out to dry all
winter long in this arctic air.
Very cold, very dry, but it
wouldn't freeze them.
It would just really drive out
all the water.
There's not very much in the way
of insects or other kinds of
things that would eat them.
But they do have to worry about
bird excrement, I guess, which
was one thing that I actually
heard was of concern.
So nowadays, a lot of the fish,
after it's all gutted, is
actually put into a kiln and
kiln dried.
>> Wow.
>> But not all sources, but a
lot of the new ones are.
>> And then it's shipped to say,
Madison, Minnesota, just for the
sake of argument.
>> Let us also say if
Minneapolis were to have this,
which is the largest lutefisk
producer, they claim, in the
world.
>> So they get the dry stuff,
and they soak it in lye.
>> Right, an industrial
chemical.
>> That's intense.
They have to wear ventilators?
>> They have to wear
respirators.
They have to wear rubber gloves,
rubber bibs.
You know, these are all OSHA
regulated requirements.
>> Then after that's done, they
soak it in water to get all the
lye out.
>> Rinse it out.
Eventually, they pack it up and
ship it out.
>> And someone cooks it.
How do you cook it?
>> There are a number of
different ways.
Oftentimes, it'll either be
baked.
But at a lot of these larger
lutefisk events, they will boil
it.
And a lot of people will have
their own little spins on it.
They'll add more salt, or
they'll have it wrapped in
cheesecloth, or a bunch of small
little touches.
>> Grandma's little touch, a
little bacon grease.
Let's see another clip.
This is how to cook it.
Can you tell us where this
kitchen is?
>> I'm not sure which one this
is.
>> I think it's the Sons of
Norway.
>> Well, if it is the Sons of
Norway, then it's over on
Williamson Street in Madison,
Wisconsin.
It's the Idun Lodge.
They have an annual lutefisk
event that I believe this was
in October.
>> Let's see a clip.
We'll show everybody how they
cook it at the Sons of Norway.
Roll the clip.
>> We're just gonna
take a piece out
just to check and see
how close to done we are.
Very important.
Ah, this looks like
she's about ready.
>> We gotta check for salt
content, and make sure
it's done just right.
And that's what we're doing now.
Got the melted butter?
>> When you butter in Norwegian
you "smor,"
it's called buttering,
you butter things,
and he knows all about it.
>> All right.
( speaks Norwegian )
>> Little more salt?
>> But not now, not now.
The next batch.
Okay.
Taste it.
They're using caustic soda.
>> Hey, I got lutefisk
on my arm here.
>> We're one of the few groups
that's still cooking
with the skin on,
which is the old Norwegian way.
And it holds together better
and it gets just a little better
quality of fish.
You get nice flakes,
don't have a ball of mush.
>> It's really flaking off well.
>> That bucket's filled up?
Ready to be emptied again?
>> I hadn't had lutefisk
until today.
I came an hour early so I could
eat before I started work.
And there's always that sort of
fearful mystique of it.
So I wasn't sure what to expect.
But it has a really mild taste.
I think maybe if I had some,
I would've put some lemon on it
and called it perfect,
but it was fine.
>> The key is
to not overcook it.
But when you do put it
on the plate,
it does jiggle a little.
And that's, I guess,
more like to have it jiggle.
>> I guess we could call that
the infamous jiggle clip,
from the documentary
"Fishin' for Tradition."
When you're famous and both
of us have gone on to Hollywood,
that'll be the jiggle clip.
>> One of them.
>> One of them, yes.
Norwegians don't take lutefisk
seriously.
They know that it has a lot of
jokes around it.
>> One of the most appealing
things that I found with it, and
one of the main reasons why I
wanted to make this was the
reason that this amount of
humor, the fun and the teasing
that surrounds it.
It's almost a test of manhood.
Or it's often put up there as a
right of passage.
>> And if you marry a Norwegian
girl, you better eat lutefisk
for grandpa.
>> Right, otherwise you're not
good enough.
>> Do you have a favorite
lutefisk joke?
>> Do I?
I don't.
But there's a really awesome one
in the movie.
I wish I could come up with one.
>> Can you tell us that one?
>> Absolutely, I could.
And it's not going to be as
well told, but the idea
is that Sven and Ole
who were in a cabin--
It's always Sven and Ole.
Or there's always a Lena
in there, too.
They're in a cabin.
They're out fishing
in northern Minnesota.
Sven was out in the outhouse.
>> Oh.
>> Yeah, well, you know,
things happen.
And he was out there and he
dropped his coat down through
the hole.
And he's, oh, lamenting this
fact, "Oh, my coat, my coat."
Ole says, "Hey, Sven, what's the
problem?"
He goes, "I dropped my coat
down the hole."
"Don't worry about it."
He goes, "I'm not worried
about the coat, but there was
a lutefisk sandwich
in the pocket."
That's how much love
there is for it.
It's very exaggerated, but it
really is something that
at least this niche of
Norwegian-Americans really goes
all out for.
And it really binds that
community.
>> It's interesting, you know,
to take it more seriously.
Because I've lived abroad in
some cultures.
Food is important, especially to
the immigrant culture.
I think it's one of the most
important things.
>> Everybody has to eat.
And if you're in a culture where
you want to connect with other
people, it's where you're with
others all the time.
You know, at least a breakfast,
a lunch, a dinner.
Or other cultures eat at other
times, or tea time, or maybe for
coffee, or for a beer.
It's always around eating and
drinking.
>> You have kids, right?
>> Yes, I do.
>> Can you see a time, or maybe
this is the time.
Do you have a son or daughter?
>> I've got a son who's three,
and also a daughter who's five
months old.
>> Can you see a time where
they're not going to, even at
Christmas, they're just not
going to have it.
What generation Norwegian are
you?
>> I am a third.
And so, I can see easily that
when they're older, there won't
be anybody left in my family to
prepare it.
>> To know how to cook it,
right.
>> And just the want to actually
eat an awful lot of it, isn't,
you know.
>> Which is good.
On one level, that's
assimilation, right, into
becoming American.
>> Yeah, but you're also losing
that little bit of that ethnic
flavor, you know.
That part that makes all of us
a little bit different.
But it's also, you know,
a common life.
It's culture to culture.
Everybody has their own unique
food horror story that they can
all revolve around.
You have haggis, and you were
speaking about...
>> Head cheese.
>> Head cheese, it goes on
and on.
>> But those things are
important.
>> They absolutely are.
And it's also one of the reasons
that I am concerned about this,
and why I wanted to make this,
just because they're not going
to have that.
I'm not going to actually have
that once my aunts and uncles
are gone, and once my parents
are also gone.
There's not going to be anybody
left for that.
>> And you made the film so you
will have that.
Let's see another clip from the
film.
I think this one really shows
a more serious side of what
lutefisk can mean.
Let's roll that clip.
>> They're honoring their family
by eating this food
so it brings back memories
of their parents
and their grandparents.
>> My grandparents
are from Norway,
so it's always been
part of my culture, my heritage.
It's important to our family.
>> He had six helpings of fish.
>> No way!
Did you eat that much?
You like that lutefisk,
don't you?
>> Fish too!
>> And fish too!
>> How much longer
am I gonna be lutefisk-ing?
I'll probably go on
as long as I am able to.
I have two sons in the business.
And I assume they'll take over
doing what I'm doing.
? ?
>> I'll do it every year
till I stop.
>> That's where we store it.
So after we get it
all packaged up, and
write the weight on there
we just toss it in the freezer.
That way, it's frozen
and it's organized.
>> Looking okay!
>> The last federal census
in Wisconsin
showed an increase
of people claiming
Norwegian heritage
from the previous census.
And whether it's because
the population actually grew
or more people became interested
in reasserting their ancestry,
I'm not sure.
But I think this does bode well
for the future of lutefisk.
>> The future of lutefisk.
You know, that clip is very
touching, especially when that
mom and son are packaging it and
making it.
It just has meaning.
What does your family think,
your aunts and uncles, those
that are older, what do they
think of the film?
You premiered it for them.
>> Well, most of them really
enjoyed it.
My dad also liked it.
He has a very short attention
span.
I got kind of like a weird
and strange remark from him.
He also asked me, "I wish
there was a narrator."
But other than that, everybody
else loved it.
I've got an uncle who appears in
it.
My son is in it.
And I also ran into and met a
cousin of my dad's, who's
actually interviewed in this,
who I had never even met.
So it's just kind of a really
small world.
>> Now you brought a special
treat for me today.
>> I did.
>> We asked Mae if she could
bring it up for us.
Thank you very much, Mae.
Maybe I shouldn't be thanking
her.
>> Yeah, maybe wait until after
you have a little bit.
>> I'll tell everybody this.
What we have here is--
Ah, it all falls apart!
That's okay.
Oh, my, that does smell strong.
Tell us what this is.
This is a lutefisk
frozen dinner.
>> A TV dinner.
>> Made from the company
that you were talking about
in the Twin Cities.
This is pre-cooked.
Wholesome fish.
I'm going to keep this.
Oh, yeah!
There we go!
There's some mashed potatoes.
I'm going to put some butter
on top of the lutefisk.
Is this my close-up there,
my Hollywood close-up
for the lutefisk?
>> You're a brave man.
>> Oh, no, no.
It's fun.
My wife's Norwegian, actually,
and I was talking to her.
She's a third generation
Norwegian.
I told her I was going to eat
lutefisk, and she's like,
good luck.
Here we go.
Ugh, very strong!
Sorry.
It's very strong.
>> I do have to make the claim
that if there's any way that I
would really have you try some,
it wouldn't be this way.
But it was graciously donated
by Lena Market.
And this is a little bit
of a novelty.
>> But for me, I'd rather have
it like at the Sons of Norway
with a guy in a Viking hat.
>> Who'd be singing to you,
also.
>> Where I'd have three or four
cocktails, as well.
>> A couple shots of --
>> Is that what I should drink?
I feel like I need some liquor.
Now, before we go, we're going
to play another clip, which is
singing.
Tell me a little bit about the
song we're going to hear.
>> I believe we're going to hear
a song called, "Oh, Lutefisk."
It was performed and recorded
by Red Strangland.
It's kind of a humorous lutefisk
song, done to the tune of
"Oh, Christmas Tree."
>> All right, well,
let's roll that clip.
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? How fragrant your aroma ?
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? You put me in a coma ?
? You smell so strong ?
? You look like glue ?
? You taste just like ?
? An over-shoe ?
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? Come Saturday ?
? I think I'll eat you anyway ?
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? I'll put you by the doorway ?
? I wanted you to ripen up ?
? Just like they do in Norway ?
? A dog came by ?
? And sprinkled you ?
? I hit him with ?
? An army shoe ?
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? Now I suppose ?
? I'll eat as I hold my nose ?
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? Now everyone is stronger ?
? Oh, lutefisk ?
? And lefse makes ?
? For even better lovers ?
>> Well, I've got one bite left
here.
And I didn't eat the peas.
People who know me will laugh.
Even though I'm eating this
stuff, I hate peas.
So I will not eat the peas.
But I will have my last bite
here.
>> And how do you feel now?
>> I don't like it.
( laughter )
I don't like it.
But not in a mean way!
I don't like it, not in a mean
way.
But I love this packaging.
I love it.
I like that I tasted something
else from someone's tradition.
I think that's great.
Well, thank you very much for
coming today.
I found this to be an
interesting experience.
And I'll be honest.
Like I said, my wife is
I think a third or fourth
generation Norwegian.
I live in Wisconsin, and have
for five or six years, and I'd
never heard of it.
>> It's a lot of fun.
And I think there's a reason why
it's been embraced.
It is, once again, I have to
reiterate, it is a community
event.
And it brings everybody--
I'm not going to, though,
at this point.
But everybody should get out
there and experience it at least
one time.
>> Everyone should try it.
Everyone should go to their
local Sons or Daughters of
Norway and try lutefisk.
So, what's your next project?
What are you up to next?
>> I don't know.
I honestly don't know.
>> You don't know yet?
>> Nope.
>> Well, when you have
something, when you've finished
another film, come back and see
us.
Hopefully, or maybe it won't be
a tripe film or a haggis film.
>> I don't think so.
>> I would appreciate that.
>> Yeah, I think we've already
worked enough of this angle.
>> Maybe a massage film.
That would be nice.
>> I would love that.
It might not go over well with
my wife, but I'd get out there
and experience one of those,
too.
>> Thank you very much.
Thanks for joining us today.
And thank all of you
for watching Director's Cut.
It's been very fun.
For more information on
"Fishin' for Tradition
A Lutefisk Saga,"
please go to our Web site at:
wpt.org/directorscut
While you're there,
send us an email, because
we love hearing from you.
I'm your host,
Charles Monroe-Kane.
For everyone here
at Director's Cut,
and I mean everyone,
thank you for joining us.
Check the gate.
>> Some of them, you've got to
twist their arm to try it,
because everybody thinks
it smells so bad.
>> Oh, I can't stand the smell
of it!
>> I never noticed the smell at
home, but I think in the large
quantities that they prepare
here, and mix that it in with
rutabaga, and you really can
smell it.
>> The smell that, you know,
is indescribable.
Or, some people say it smells
like worn out shoes.
>> Usually it does have
like a lye smell to it.
But this year, they used
like some different chemical.
I don't know what it is,
but it has less of an odor.
It's not quite as gamey.
>> I tried cooking it one time,
but it takes a talent to do it.
Even the cat wouldn't eat it.
( laughter )