9DCU0207HD_Directors_Cut_Studio_Transcript

 We'll take that dried fish, and put in a tank of fresh water for one or two days, and it just soaks, getting a little softer.  We'll then add the caustic soda, which is basically the same thing as lye or sodium hydroxide.  That chemical is really what gets things going, because it helps open up the fish's pores so it'll soak more water in.  It stays in the chemicals for about two or three days and it goes through a series of freshwater baths, and you have to go through these things by hand, and grab the filets.  You have to be able to feel with your thumb and your fingers when the fish is ready.  There also has to be a certain amount of bend in the fish.  Hi, and welcome to Director's Cut .  I'm your host, Charles Monroe-Kane.  At Director's Cut, we're dedicated to bringing you the best in independent films and filmmakers.  Today, Lutefisk.  For you Norwegians out there, and you know who you are, you know exactly what I'm talking about.  But for those of you who aren't, lutefisk is that yummy fish you eat on Christmas.  Steeped in tradition and folklore, as well as lye and butter, lutefisk is a perfect subject for a documentary.  And Eric Nelson did just that.  Welcome to Director's Cut.  Thank you very much.  So, you do this film.  You have animation.  You have folklore.  You have stories.  You have all this stuff. 

 But does lutefisk taste good? It looks nasty.  Are you asking me, or are you asking everybody else? I'm asking you.  Did you like it? I think it's okay.  Now, I'm probably going to get an awful lot of grief for admitting that after making this.  But I grew up around it, so it's much more of the tradition of it is more what I'm interested in.  I think that the taste is okay.  For those who really don't know, it's like a white fish that's in a lot of butter.  So it ends up tasting like a poor man's lobster.  Oh, poor man's lobster.  Which isn't all that bad if you get past the smell, which is what everybody has a very difficult time with.  Do you remember? Now, you're Norwegian.  Oh, yes.  Do you remember the first time you had it? I was pretty young, I think.  I grew up around it.  So all of my relatives ate it for the holidays.  Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years.  Is that how often you eat it now, still? Nope, I eat it about zero now.  When I grew up with my folks, we always had it.  And when my grandparents were alive, we always had it.  But I never really learned to make it on my own.  And I don't have an awful lot of love of actually eating it, other than for all the company that it brings and that goes along with it. 

 So I don't really make it on my own.  But if I'm at my aunt's or my uncle's houses, then I'll probably have a little bit.  At Christmas time.  Exactly.  But I will not go out of my way for it.  Well, I want to see another clip from this film.  Will you set this one up for us? This is Chad Wright.  Can you tell us a little bit about Chad? Chad was a very interesting young man.  I don't know exactly his age, probably early 20s.  But his grandfather is the head cook at the Sons of Norway in Madison, Wisconsin.  And so, Chad has been working at these annual lutefisk dinners, fund-raisers that the Sons of Norway have, since he's been ten years old, I believe.  Wow.  And he's been working as a fishmonger.  He takes these little pieces of lutefisk, rehydrates them, re-soaks them, washes them out, and he takes them up to his granddad.  So he's been doing this for years.  And he actually brought along a friend to help him with that.  You'll see that right in this clip.  Let's see a clip from Chad.  I'm Chad Wright, C-h-d. . . 

 ( laughter ) Shoot! Can you just hold up a card with my name on it? There you go.  Chad Wright.  Hello.  It comes in a box like that.  And then they come in a bag and they're about that long.  Cut them in three parts, and then you put them in the barrels over there.  Then they sit for three nights, with the water and salt and you change out the water and whatnot.  Once a day you change the water.  And that's basically about it.  When we get ready to have fish, they put in buckets and carry it up to us.  Yummy.  A clip from "Fishin' for Tradition. " So tell me about Madison, Minnesota, the lutefisk capital of the world.  Madison, Minnesota.  I found out about the town while doing a little bit of research for this.  The happen to claim their town as being the lutefisk capital of the world.  And no one else claimed it, so I guess you get it.  That's exactly what the head of the Chamber of Commerce indicated to me.  He had originally stated that the town had eaten more lutefisk, per capita, than anyplace else, according to their distributor.  And as you just indicated, nobody else made the claim, so they did.  And they really pushed that hard, as being the main revenue stream for all the tourism in the area. 

 They have a huge statue of a cod fish that they've affectionately named Lou T.  Fisk.  And that iconography is everywhere throughout that whole town.  I just want to make sure I get the process right.  We saw some in the clip.  Some guy, if I get this right, in Norway, catches a cod, okay.  It's a white fish.  And then that cod is dried.  Yeah.  Outdoors? So tell me what happens.  Usually, the old standard way of making lutefisk would be that a fisherman would go out on a boat.  He or she-- The Norwegian fisherman, who knows, why not? They would drop a long line, which is just a big, long line with small hooks on it, all baited.  And they'd let that go down to the deep water, where a lot of these cod fish are.  Pull them up, all by hand.  They would then slice off the heads.  They'd take out the guts.  All right.  They would then head in to shore, and tie the tails of two of these cod fish together.  They'd heave them over a pole.  They'd have racks and racks of these fish just heaved over.  Yeah, I've seen pictures of hundreds and hundreds of them. 

 Right.  And so, they'd be out to dry all winter long in this arctic air.  Very cold, very dry, but it wouldn't freeze them.  It would just really drive out all the water.  There's not very much in the way of insects or other kinds of things that would eat them.  But they do have to worry about bird excrement, I guess, which was one thing that I actually heard was of concern.  So nowadays, a lot of the fish, after it's all gutted, is actually put into a kiln and kiln dried.  Wow.  But not all sources, but a lot of the new ones are.  And then it's shipped to say, Madison, Minnesota, just for the sake of argument.  Let us also say if Minneapolis were to have this, which is the largest lutefisk producer, they claim, in the world.  So they get the dry stuff, and they soak it in lye.  Right, an industrial chemical.  That's intense.  They have to wear ventilators? They have to wear respirators.  They have to wear rubber gloves, rubber bibs.  You know, these are all OSHA regulated requirements.  Then after that's done, they soak it in water to get all the lye out.  Rinse it out.  Eventually, they pack it up and ship it out.  And someone cooks it. 

 How do you cook it? There are a number of different ways.  Oftentimes, it'll either be baked.  But at a lot of these larger lutefisk events, they will boil it.  And a lot of people will have their own little spins on it.  They'll add more salt, or they'll have it wrapped in cheesecloth, or a bunch of small little touches.  Grandma's little touch, a little bacon grease.  Let's see another clip.  This is how to cook it.  Can you tell us where this kitchen is? I'm not sure which one this is.  I think it's the Sons of Norway.  Well, if it is the Sons of Norway, then it's over on Williamson Street in Madison, Wisconsin.  It's the Idun Lodge.  They have an annual lutefisk event that I believe this was in October.  Let's see a clip.  We'll show everybody how they cook it at the Sons of Norway.  Roll the clip.  We're just gonna take a piece out just to check and see how close to done we are.  Very important.  Ah, this looks like she's about ready.  We gotta check for salt content, and make sure it's done just right.  And that's what we're doing now. 

 Got the melted butter? When you butter in Norwegian you "smor," it's called buttering, you butter things, and he knows all about it.  All right.  ( speaks Norwegian ) Little more salt? But not now, not now.  The next batch.  Okay.  Taste it.  They're using caustic soda.  Hey, I got lutefisk on my arm here.  We're one of the few groups that's still cooking with the skin on, which is the old Norwegian way.  And it holds together better and it gets just a little better quality of fish.  You get nice flakes, don't have a ball of mush.  It's really flaking off well.  That bucket's filled up? Ready to be emptied again? I hadn't had lutefisk until today.  I came an hour early so I could eat before I started work.  And there's always that sort of fearful mystique of it.  So I wasn't sure what to expect.  But it has a really mild taste.  I think maybe if I had some, I would've put some lemon on it and called it perfect, but it was fine.  The key is to not overcook it.  But when you do put it on the plate, it does jiggle a little.  And that's, I guess, more like to have it jiggle. 

 I guess we could call that the infamous jiggle clip, from the documentary "Fishin' for Tradition. " When you're famous and both of us have gone on to Hollywood, that'll be the jiggle clip.  One of them.  One of them, yes.  Norwegians don't take lutefisk seriously.  They know that it has a lot of jokes around it.  One of the most appealing things that I found with it, and one of the main reasons why I wanted to make this was the reason that this amount of humor, the fun and the teasing that surrounds it.  It's almost a test of manhood.  Or it's often put up there as a right of passage.  And if you marry a Norwegian girl, you better eat lutefisk for grandpa.  Right, otherwise you're not good enough.  Do you have a favorite lutefisk joke? Do I? I don't.  But there's a really awesome one in the movie.  I wish I could come up with one.  Can you tell us that one? Absolutely, I could.  And it's not going to be as well told, but the idea is that Sven and Ole who were in a cabin-- It's always Sven and Ole.  Or there's always a Lena in there, too.  They're in a cabin.  They're out fishing in northern Minnesota.  Sven was out in the outhouse.  Oh. 

 Yeah, well, you know, things happen.  And he was out there and he dropped his coat down through the hole.  And he's, oh, lamenting this fact, "Oh, my coat, my coat. " Ole says, "Hey, Sven, what's the problem?" He goes, "I dropped my coat down the hole. " "Don't worry about it. " He goes, "I'm not worried about the coat, but there was a lutefisk sandwich in the pocket. " That's how much love there is for it.  It's very exaggerated, but it really is something that at least this niche of Norwegian-Americans really goes all out for.  And it really binds that community.  It's interesting, you know, to take it more seriously.  Because I've lived abroad in some cultures.  Food is important, especially to the immigrant culture.  I think it's one of the most important things.  Everybody has to eat.  And if you're in a culture where you want to connect with other people, it's where you're with others all the time.  You know, at least a breakfast, a lunch, a dinner.  Or other cultures eat at other times, or tea time, or maybe for coffee, or for a beer.  It's always around eating and drinking.  You have kids, right? Yes, I do.  Can you see a time, or maybe this is the time.  Do you have a son or daughter? I've got a son who's three, and also a daughter who's five months old. 

 Can you see a time where they're not going to, even at Christmas, they're just not going to have it.  What generation Norwegian are you? I am a third.  And so, I can see easily that when they're older, there won't be anybody left in my family to prepare it.  To know how to cook it, right.  And just the want to actually eat an awful lot of it, isn't, you know.  Which is good.  On one level, that's assimilation, right, into becoming American.  Yeah, but you're also losing that little bit of that ethnic flavor, you know.  That part that makes all of us a little bit different.  But it's also, you know, a common life.  It's culture to culture.  Everybody has their own unique food horror story that they can all revolve around.  You have haggis, and you were speaking about. . .  Head cheese.  Head cheese, it goes on and on.  But those things are important.  They absolutely are.  And it's also one of the reasons that I am concerned about this, and why I wanted to make this, just because they're not going to have that.  I'm not going to actually have that once my aunts and uncles are gone, and once my parents are also gone. 

 There's not going to be anybody left for that.  And you made the film so you will have that.  Let's see another clip from the film.  I think this one really shows a more serious side of what lutefisk can mean.  Let's roll that clip.  They're honoring their family by eating this food so it brings back memories of their parents and their grandparents.  My grandparents are from Norway, so it's always been part of my culture, my heritage.  It's important to our family.  He had six helpings of fish.  No way! Did you eat that much? You like that lutefisk, don't you? Fish too! And fish too! How much longer am I gonna be lutefisk-ing? I'll probably go on as long as I am able to.  I have two sons in the business.  And I assume they'll take over doing what I'm doing.  * I'll do it every year till I stop.  That's where we store it.  So after we get it all packaged up, and write the weight on there we just toss it in the freezer.  That way, it's frozen and it's organized.  Looking okay! The last federal census in Wisconsin showed an increase of people claiming Norwegian heritage from the previous census.  And whether it's because the population actually grew or more people became interested in reasserting their ancestry, I'm not sure.  But I think this does bode well for the future of lutefisk.  The future of lutefisk.  You know, that clip is very touching, especially when that mom and son are packaging it and making it. 

 It just has meaning.  What does your family think, your aunts and uncles, those that are older, what do they think of the film? You premiered it for them.  Well, most of them really enjoyed it.  My dad also liked it.  He has a very short attention span.  I got kind of like a weird and strange remark from him.  He also asked me, "I wish there was a narrator. " But other than that, everybody else loved it.  I've got an uncle who appears in it.  My son is in it.  And I also ran into and met a cousin of my dad's, who's actually interviewed in this, who I had never even met.  So it's just kind of a really small world.  Now you brought a special treat for me today.  I did.  We asked Mae if she could bring it up for us.  Thank you very much, Mae.  Maybe I shouldn't be thanking her.  Yeah, maybe wait until after you have a little bit.  I'll tell everybody this.  What we have here is-- Ah, it all falls apart! That's okay.  Oh, my, that does smell strong. 

 Tell us what this is.  This is a lutefisk frozen dinner.  A TV dinner.  Made from the company that you were talking about in the Twin Cities.  This is pre-cooked.  Wholesome fish.  I'm going to keep this.  Oh, yeah! There we go! There's some mashed potatoes.  I'm going to put some butter on top of the lutefisk.  Is this my close-up there, my Hollywood close-up for the lutefisk? You're a brave man.  Oh, no, no.  It's fun.  My wife's Norwegian, actually, and I was talking to her.  She's a third generation Norwegian.  I told her I was going to eat lutefisk, and she's like, good luck.  Here we go.  Ugh, very strong! Sorry.  It's very strong.  I do have to make the claim that if there's any way that I would really have you try some, it wouldn't be this way.  But it was graciously donated by Lena Market.  And this is a little bit of a novelty. 

 But for me, I'd rather have it like at the Sons of Norway with a guy in a Viking hat.  Who'd be singing to you, also.  Where I'd have three or four cocktails, as well.  A couple shots of -- Is that what I should drink? I feel like I need some liquor.  Now, before we go, we're going to play another clip, which is singing.  Tell me a little bit about the song we're going to hear.  I believe we're going to hear a song called, "Oh, Lutefisk. " It was performed and recorded by Red Strangland.  It's kind of a humorous lutefisk song, done to the tune of "Oh, Christmas Tree. " All right, well, let's roll that clip.  * Oh, lutefisk * Oh, lutefisk * How fragrant your aroma * Oh, lutefisk * Oh, lutefisk * You put me in a coma * You smell so strong * You look like glue * You taste just like * An over-shoe * Oh, lutefisk * Come Saturday * I think I'll eat you anyway * Oh, lutefisk * Oh, lutefisk * I'll put you by the doorway * I wanted you to ripen up * Just like they do in Norway * A dog came by * And sprinkled you * I hit him with * An army shoe * Oh, lutefisk * Now I suppose * I'll eat as I hold my nose * Oh, lutefisk * Oh, lutefisk * Now everyone is stronger * Oh, lutefisk * And lefse makes * For even better lovers Well, I've got one bite left here.  And I didn't eat the peas.  People who know me will laugh.  Even though I'm eating this stuff, I hate peas.  So I will not eat the peas.  But I will have my last bite here.  And how do you feel now? I don't like it.  ( laughter ) I don't like it.  But not in a mean way! I don't like it, not in a mean way.  But I love this packaging.  I love it. 

 I like that I tasted something else from someone's tradition.  I think that's great.  Well, thank you very much for coming today.  I found this to be an interesting experience.  And I'll be honest.  Like I said, my wife is I think a third or fourth generation Norwegian.  I live in Wisconsin, and have for five or six years, and I'd never heard of it.  It's a lot of fun.  And I think there's a reason why it's been embraced.  It is, once again, I have to reiterate, it is a community event.  And it brings everybody-- I'm not going to, though, at this point.  But everybody should get out there and experience it at least one time.  Everyone should try it.  Everyone should go to their local Sons or Daughters of Norway and try lutefisk.  So, what's your next project? What are you up to next? I don't know.  I honestly don't know.  You don't know yet? Nope.  Well, when you have something, when you've finished another film, come back and see us.  Hopefully, or maybe it won't be a tripe film or a haggis film.  I don't think so.  I would appreciate that. 

 Yeah, I think we've already worked enough of this angle.  Maybe a massage film.  That would be nice.  I would love that.  It might not go over well with my wife, but I'd get out there and experience one of those, too.  Thank you very much.  Thanks for joining us today.  And thank all of you for watching Director's Cut.  It's been very fun.  For more information on "Fishin' for Tradition A Lutefisk Saga," please go to our Web site at: wpt. org/directorscut While you're there, send us an email, because we love hearing from you.  I'm your host, Charles Monroe-Kane.  For everyone here at Director's Cut, and I mean everyone, thank you for joining us.  Check the gate.  Some of them, you've got to twist their arm to try it, because everybody thinks it smells so bad.  Oh, I can't stand the smell of it! I never noticed the smell at home, but I think in the large quantities that they prepare here, and mix that it in with rutabaga, and you really can smell it.  The smell that, you know, is indescribable.  Or, some people say it smells like worn out shoes.  Usually it does have like a lye smell to it.  But this year, they used like some different chemical.  I don't know what it is, but it has less of an odor. 

 It's not quite as gamey.  I tried cooking it one time, but it takes a talent to do it.  Even the cat wouldn't eat it.  ( laughter )